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Items missing in Tiger.

post #1 of 172
Thread Starter 
Ok so there are 200 new features in Tiger

But what's missing.

I'm trying to keep a running total of what didn't make the cut.

1. OpenGL 2.0.
2. Resolution Independence
3. ??? (your suggestion here)
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post #2 of 172
Java 1.5/JSE 5
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post #3 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Ok so there are 200 new features in Tiger

But what's missing.

I'm trying to keep a running total of what didn't make the cut.

1. OpenGL 2.0.
2. Resolution Independence
3. ??? (your suggestion here)

I got the impression that the plumbing is there for the resolution independence piece but there will be a period of transition as developers adjust their UI design accordingly?

Don't know, asking.
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post #4 of 172
Did Fast Logout and Autosave make it?http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...ghlight=logout
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post #5 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Ok so there are 200 new features in Tiger

But what's missing.

I'm trying to keep a running total of what didn't make the cut.

1. OpenGL 2.0.
2. Resolution Independence
3. ??? (your suggestion here)

wow, like four hrs after the announcement of release, already we have a bitch thread about what aint there...this was an ANNOUNCEMENT not a release...this has to be some kind of record...mods?
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post #6 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison

3. ??? (your suggestion here)

Core Data, Quartz 2D Extreme, although one could argue that those are included in Spotlight and Quartz Extreme respectively. But seeing the details Apple included as features, I was surprised to see the above two missing.
post #7 of 172
hmurchison: Resolution Independence did make the cut... it is in the API's. It just does not have a GUI yet, and this is because Apple wants people to develop for it, but knows that there is no reason to bring it out yet. When a reason happens, Apple will be ready.

Watch the WWDC webcast about the Graphics layers, they are very specific about why this was done.

PB: Those two are in 10.4, they are just not in the marketing. How do you explain the former to most people, and the latter is for developer's only: users will get the benefits but will never know how things were implemented.
post #8 of 172
I would like the actual folders to change color as opposed to the label, when can I get that?

Beyond that, I think everything is hunky dory.
post #9 of 172
Gold coin press was left out...
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post #10 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
wow, like four hrs after the announcement of release, already we have a bitch thread about what aint there...this was an ANNOUNCEMENT not a release...this has to be some kind of record...mods?

Are we a tad touchy? This thread is for noting what items didn't make the cut in Tiger. Not a bytch thread.

Karl thanks for that info. I have seen that the Rez independent UI was in the Betas. I'll try to locate that WWDC webcast. It seems with LCDs jumping up in resolution we need to have a malleable OSX GUI that can be optimised to a monitors rez.

I'm not worried about the Java and OpenGL I know they're comming. In fact with Apple admitting that they are lengthening the development cycle I'm sure there will be plenty of tech that is implemented in Tiger before 10.5 hits.

Of course the most mythical of all missing features.

PILES!!
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post #11 of 172
I wonder if Apple is planning anything for when Longhorn finally ships. Obviously 10.5 will probably be at least 2 years away - can they do anything splashy with a point release?
post #12 of 172
I suspect Java 1.5 and OpenGL 2.0 will be either 'when they're ready' or 10.4.1. The latter particularly surprises me, but I understand there were some issues with programmable shaders as defined in OGL2 and how Apple implemented them in CoreImage... methinks they're looking at a merging on the back end to save on development costs later.
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post #13 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
I would like the actual folders to change color as opposed to the label, when can I get that?

Beyond that, I think everything is hunky dory.

Agreed. I don't used labels because they look so ugly amongst the gorgeous Aqua UI. Maybe somehow they could affect the colour of the icon's white patches, so i have yellow for a certain college project and all the files (word, pictures, web pages) had a yellow "page" icon instead of white. Of course this could be integrated with a spotlight search type thing?

Quote:
I wonder if Apple is planning anything for when Longhorn finally ships. Obviously 10.5 will probably be at least 2 years away - can they do anything splashy with a point release?

Will Longhorn be out within the next 2 years then?
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post #14 of 172
Is firewire networking official yet?
horrid misuse of cool technology
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post #15 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Ebby
Is firewire networking official yet?

It has been official in 10.3 for quite some time now. It is just not recommended (the firewire protocol is not a particularly good one for layering TCP/IP on top of).
post #16 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kuehn
It has been official in 10.3 for quite some time now. It is just not recommended (the firewire protocol is not a particularly good one for layering TCP/IP on top of).

When I tried using firewire to share a connection for a week or so, it was a real pain in the ass, I had to restart network sharing all the time to get it to work.
Sure it's nice to have the feature, but seems it needs a little further work.
post #17 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Gon
When I tried using firewire to share a connection for a week or so, it was a real pain in the ass, I had to restart network sharing all the time to get it to work.
Sure it's nice to have the feature, but seems it needs a little further work.

Like I said... tunneling TCP/IP over FireWire sucks... both protocols have connection monitoring built into them, and it winds up that they fight a lot when anything goes wrong. Then there is the fact that FireWire is optimized for large chunks of data, and TCP/IP is best at sending streams of small chiunks. This problem is not limited at all to Apple's implementation, but is a general thing. It is just a bad idea.

To fix the problem you would really have to bridge/tunnel the data across FireWire (probably with some sort of trick-cache system like satellite network providers use), and this would require something proprietary (as there is no standard for this), and it would have to be at both ends. But this is really not worth anyone doing as current FireWire (over anything but fiber) tops out at 800Mbits/sec but Gigbit ethernet (theoretically) tops out at 1000Mbits/sec, and that is bi-directional (the FireWire number is aggregate), and the price difference is not usually worth talking about.

Now don't confuse this with saying there is no place for FireWire, those same protocols that make TCP/IP suck over FireWire also make it the best protocol out there for working with disk drives and other large-data-streaming systems. It just has no real place as a network carrier. I like that Apple has provided a basic setup, as it is nice for emergencies, but any more money spent in this area would just be a waste of resources that could better be used elsewhere.
post #18 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kuehn
Then there is the fact that FireWire is optimized for large chunks of data, and TCP/IP is best at sending streams of small chiunks. This problem is not limited at all to Apple's implementation, but is a general thing. It is just a bad idea.
...
I like that Apple has provided a basic setup, as it is nice for emergencies, but any more money spent in this area would just be a waste of resources that could better be used elsewhere.

"It is nice for emergencies." Indeed, and emergencies and ad hoc setups are the only way I want to use this technology. Precisely for that reason I think it should be reliable! If it's slow, no problem, I just want a connection, and I want it to be solid.

Then again, IP over Firewire actually seemed reliable, I could always ping the other machine. Apparently the Internet Sharing system's IPoF component is the problem that I'd like to see fixed.
post #19 of 172
This image on the Tiger Aqua page, looks pretty resolution independent to me:



Most likely its the usual Apple Photoshop magic, however.
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post #20 of 172
What is resolution independent mean?

Why would you say that picture looks res independent?

Just curious what all that means.
post #21 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by zenatek
What is resolution independent mean?

Why would you say that picture looks res independent?

Just curious what all that means.

You know when you crank the resolution up on your montior and your text and icons shrink to the size of a gnat? Well rez independence would allow you to scale the user interface of the OS back up so that your icons/text will be at a decent size.
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post #22 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
You know when you crank the resolution up on your montior and your text and icons shrink to the size of a gnat? Well rez independence would allow you to scale the user interface of the OS back up so that your icons/text will be at a decent size.

To elaborate, the current solution most people do is downgrade the resolution on the displays which is really bad, expecially an LCD. If you ever run an LCD at something other than it's native (or native/2) res., you'll notice interpolation and blurry text. Resolution independence will allow Grandma to run her LCD at full, native 1600x1200 and still be able to read everything.
post #23 of 172
It's the difference between zooming into a photo in iPhoto and zooming into a PDF in Preview.

In iPhoto, even though it's smoothing things for you, it gets chunky pretty fast. A photo is just a bunch of dots.

In Preview, with a PDF, it *always* stays smooth and crisp. A PDF file is a bunch of instructions on how to draw the objects, at whatever scale is needed, so it always matches up to your display (or printer, or whatever) perfectly.

Right now, we have a bunch of dots for our UI. Resolution independence makes it like a PDF - you can zoom in as much as you want, and it still looks crisp.
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post #24 of 172
Just to add something else about Res Independence. By pressing Apple/Command + J, you can resize the icons up to a 128x128 px size. This is how it will work, but on the whole OS - menus, windows, text size and everything else. And just like with the icons, it'll stay looking gorgeous and not at all pixelated, like changing the resolution of the screen.
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post #25 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kuehn
hmurchison: Resolution Independence did make the cut... it is in the API's. It just does not have a GUI yet, and this is because Apple wants people to develop for it, but knows that there is no reason to bring it out yet. When a reason happens, Apple will be ready.

Watch the WWDC webcast about the Graphics layers, they are very specific about why this was done.

PB: Those two are in 10.4, they are just not in the marketing. How do you explain the former to most people, and the latter is for developer's only: users will get the benefits but will never know how things were implemented.

Wait, so are you saying that Apple has fully implemented a resolution-independent GUI in OS X, but just decided to turn the feature off for public consumption? Why? Is it because Apple are afraid nobody would buy their relatively low resolution displays? This is just crazy-I've seen high resolution LCDs and the clarity is amazing - it would be perfect for Aqua! Plus Apple will need a resolution independent GUI if they are ever to equip smaller sized displays with HD resolution.
post #26 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Wait, so are you saying that Apple has fully implemented a resolution-independent GUI in OS X, but just decided to turn the feature off for public consumption? Why? Is it because Apple are afraid nobody would buy their relatively low resolution displays? This is just crazy-I've seen high resolution LCDs and the clarity is amazing - it would be perfect for Aqua! Plus Apple will need a resolution independent GUI if they are ever to equip smaller sized displays with HD resolution.

Try and read the post again. Resolution independent support is in there, but it won't be turned on until developers have made their apps ready for a resolution independent GUI.

It you really want it, install the Dev tools and turn it on.
JLL

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post #27 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
I suspect Java 1.5 and OpenGL 2.0 will be either 'when they're ready' or 10.4.1. The latter particularly surprises me, but I understand there were some issues with programmable shaders as defined in OGL2 and how Apple implemented them in CoreImage... methinks they're looking at a merging on the back end to save on development costs later.

Java 1.5 is a separate download and was always intended as such.
JLL

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JLL

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post #28 of 172
what about built in php and mysql as they are making a big thing about web sharing.
post #29 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
Java 1.5 is a separate download and was always intended as such.

yup, afaik it is available through adc for tiger developers, so i guess it will be released shortly after tiger.
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post #30 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Wait, so are you saying that Apple has fully implemented a resolution-independent GUI in OS X, but just decided to turn the feature off for public consumption? Why? Is it because Apple are afraid nobody would buy their relatively low resolution displays? This is just crazy-I've seen high resolution LCDs and the clarity is amazing - it would be perfect for Aqua! Plus Apple will need a resolution independent GUI if they are ever to equip smaller sized displays with HD resolution.

Go watch the streaming videos on Apple's website. It has a nice section on why 3rd party apps are not ready for resolution independence (and Classic and most Carbon will never be). In addition, we don't really have a need for resolution independence now... some people might use it, but the need is not there yet. The need will happen when we start to go to 300 pixels per inch (^2) and this will probably first happen with digital ink or OLED devices.

Apple is prepping for it, and the way they have done it everyone can get ready, and it will be easy for a future .x upgrade to add the GUI.
post #31 of 172
Does Tiger support spring loaded dock items?
Just curious.
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post #32 of 172
IIRC, nope.
post #33 of 172
So did Quartz 2D Extreme make it into Tiger? The official site makes no mention of it as far as I can tell. It does however mention Quartz Extreme which surfaced as early as Jaguar. Perhaps this technology (Q2DE) has been disabled in the GM and will be added with an 10.4.x release? Either way, the handy-man should be able to enable it from the developer tools, assuming that the code is still there only dormant. Any thoughts?
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post #34 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Gavriel
So did Quartz 2D Extreme make it into Tiger? The official site makes no mention of it as far as I can tell. It does however mention Quartz Extreme which surfaced as early as Jaguar. Perhaps this technology (Q2DE) has been disabled in the GM and will be added with an 10.4.x release? Either way, the handy-man should be able to enable it from the developer tools, assuming that the code is still there only dormant. Any thoughts?

It's turned off by default in GM.
JLL

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post #35 of 172
Bring back my animated icons or the Dog Cow gets it. I'm serious.

Oh kineticon! Where for art thou with an OS X implementation?
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post #36 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Gavriel
So did Quartz 2D Extreme make it into Tiger? Any thoughts?

It's there in mine. It was turned on too. I don't see any reason to disable it, as it finally brings "TEH SNAPPY®" to window resizing, unless the app itself has to do a lot of redrawing as the window resizes. QT Player now has full active live window resizing, very very responsive.

Resolution independence is in there - it's just that apps will have to have controls to set their menu fonts, etc. before it will be useful. For now, for example, you can set the resolution to 2x with the dev tool Quartz Debug, and relaunch Safari, but there is no way to tell Safari to reduce the font size of the menus so they are huge.
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post #37 of 172
I was a bit upset that there's no support for holgraphic 3-D displays....

I guess some folks are NEVER going to be happy
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post #38 of 172
No OpenGL 2.0? I thought that'd made the cut. Nuts. Anyone know a ballpark release date?
post #39 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kuehn
Go watch the streaming videos on Apple's website. It has a nice section on why 3rd party apps are not ready for resolution independence (and Classic and most Carbon will never be).

Please excuse, but I do not have the time to skip through all the movies. Could you be so kind and elaborate on the reasons?

Quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kuehn
In addition, we don't really have a need for resolution independence now... some people might use it, but the need is not there yet. The need will happen when we start to go to 300 pixels per inch (^2) and this will probably first happen with digital ink or OLED devices.

This is kind of an hen/egg situation: noone needs it as long as high-res screens are not widely spread, but they will not see market penetration as long as there are no provision to comfortably use them.
post #40 of 172
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
IIRC, nope.

Strange enough, isn't it?
Btw, i had to do some funny research
what "IIRC" suppose to mean, actually.
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