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Even more disapointing TS news - Page 3

post #81 of 241
4/20/05 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Read it, hated it.

But as you can see....based on this post and Think Secrets latest, updates remain bleak if all said is true.
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post #82 of 241
4/20/05 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
Garnered from a closeted web site:

"Apple's Power Mac updates, though not all that rumor sites had anticipated, will nevertheless be accompanied by an approximate 10% rise in prices. When queried about the increase, an unidentified spokesman blamed it on ATI. 'They told us the 9600 was so old the line had been retooled. Retooling again (for 9600 production) will be costly.' "

Sources say customers for the new PM will have the choice of 'opting out' of a GPU to save money. Although this would eliminate the possibility of a monitor - and useful work - there is a segment that just "enjoys listening to the fans."



Do I need to id this as sarcasm? Surely not.


:thumbsup: This is getting seriously funny.
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post #83 of 241
4/20/05 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
CPU stuff aside, you think they could have at least made advancements in the GPU offerings and possibly increased the number o ram slots after a year.

But my iMac G5 1.8 runs circles around my PC 3 ghz work box for my use. So not being the first to Dual Core isn't that bad although everyone wants "their" brand computer to be that company that makes first.

Could have what??? They haven't announced anything and you are second guessing what they could have done??? Saying something about after a year. If you are talking about updates you have to wait a couple months--like July before you can talk about a year passing. Do you own a time machine? Or have you just lost perspective?

Its this complete sudden near global acceptance of the worst rumor to come along as ground truth, despite real evidence that superior hardware exists someplace, and incredibly loose date math, which leads to WRONG statements disguised as past tense fact that is absolutely inane.

Nick hasn't had any long lead time hardware rumors pan out in a looong time. The mini call was there, but only a week ahead of time---nothing before that. That looks like a last minute leak. Much different than trying to scoop something as potentially far off as WWDC. He does seem to have a reliable feed for software info. That keeps his credibility looking reasonable, but on the closer look his HW record lately is only a bit better than Meaders. If his HW record is that bad, do we really want to take everything he says about Apple HW as gospel?
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post #84 of 241
4/20/05 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Jared
But as you can see....based on this post and Think Secrets latest, updates remain bleak if all said is true.

I was joking btw. But you are right that plenty of us will be rather bummed if we don't get PCI Express at least. I tell you if we're still stuck on the same hardware I'm vacating AI for a bit because there are going to be cataclysmic flame wars going on. The Calamity could be catastrophic capice?

Hell I'm only good for an iMac but I'd like to see my Mac Brethren happy.
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post #85 of 241
4/20/05 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I tell you if we're still stuck on the same hardware I'm vacating AI for a bit because there are going to be cataclysmic flame wars going on.

I think folks are about flamed out. Maybe THAT's the real reason Apple fed the TS leaker: to get the bad news out early so folks could deal with it. By the time the updates are announced we'll all be exhausted with no fire in the belly. Course end result is pretty much the same - disappointing PM sales.

(But I hope you were joking about leaving the forum, even for a spate.)
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post #86 of 241
4/20/05 at 9:18pm
Dave I'm still hoping that TS is wrong.

Judging from how their accuracy has suffered recently I'm not too sure that misinformation hasn't be spread. We'll see if AI has good info next Tuesday.
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post #87 of 241
4/20/05 at 9:27pm
I'm beginning to think that a new dual core Pro Series UltraMac
may not be all that unreasonable.

The existing PowerMacs may no longer be the latest or greatest
but they are still damn good systems offering far more than the majority
of users will ever need.

Most of us assume that Apple will retire the current G5's to make way
for the new dual core machines, but that may not be necessary at all.
Many shops may not be ready to migrate over to PCI-E just yet.

An across the board $300 price drop and a few essential improvements
could keep the current chassis going strong for several years as a mid range system for those who need a bit more than the iMacG5 can offer.

It's quite possible that the rumored 970 GX could be used in both single and standard dual configurations to help keep the PowerMacs affordable, while the 970MP becomes the new standard for the Pro series.

If this were the case then the specs TS posted could be partially correct.
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post #88 of 241
4/20/05 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Dave I'm still hoping that TS is wrong.

Bless you.

We need to start a pool for the day and hour you will hit 5000!
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post #89 of 241
4/20/05 at 9:44pm
I can understand disappointment, because we are eager to see a Power Mac with dual core chips. However, I don't see any reason to be pessimistic, as a few seem to be. Dual core Power Macs will be here when they are ready. I'm sure no one wants them more than the crew at Apple, so Power Macs begin selling well.

If the 970MP is really ready to go, then Think Secret is wrong and we'll see new Power Macs any day now. If the chips are not ready, we'll likely see the predicted speed bump now, with all new Power Macs later this year.

I feel certain that the chip is the critical path, not the Apple hardware, and that is not a reason to criticize IBM. It's a tough job making the best possible CPU, and IBM want it to be right too, for use in their blade servers.
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post #90 of 241
4/20/05 at 9:45pm
Fallen

I fondly remember the days when the top Macs where $5000 or more. Well I liked selling them not buying them

I really don't see an issue with Apple bifurcating the Powermac line into an Express model and standard like you mention. The Express could could have the Dual-Core and other very cool goodies. The standard Powermac line will have close to what we have today but PCI Express and a little less ambitious motherboard and less aggressive pricing.

There are people would gladly shell out $4k for a Quad Powermac. AVC encoding is going to kick off another round of overnight encoding sessions.

You'd really only need two models of each. $1499/1999 standard Powermacs and 2499/2999/3499 Express models or so.

Dave. I had no idea I was approaching 5k. I look forward to the next 5k.
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post #91 of 241
4/20/05 at 10:06pm
Oh yes painful memories

Receipt dated 12/16/98

PowerMac G3 MiniTower/300 Mhz/64MB RAM,8.5 SCSI, CD ROM,
A/V personality card. $2593

with tax and shipping $2709.69

Education price.

And it still works!
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post #92 of 241
4/20/05 at 10:14pm
Fallen: I agree with your reasoning (and have said something similar in the past) but ask myself if the Power or Express line is coming why hasn't it generated a little more heat on rumor sites? MOSR is pushing it the hardest and their reliability is the subject of scorn apparently.

hmurchison: LOVE your prices. I'll take one of the 3499's
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post #93 of 241
4/20/05 at 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
Fallen: I agree with your reasoning (and have said something similar in the past) but ask myself if the Power or Express line is coming why hasn't it generated a little more heat on rumor sites? MOSR is pushing it the hardest and their reliability is the subject of scorn apparently.


They didn't stop making G3 iBooks just because of the new G4 Powerbooks right? and they probably won't retire the G4 PowerBooks
for quite some time after they release a G5 PB, so it makes perfect sense
that Apple could still offer the current G5 configurations in some form
with a NEW bad ass Pro workstation for those who really need one.

I have a feeling that the dual core Pro, PCI-E series might start closer to $3999
and higher for Quad configurations.
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post #94 of 241
4/20/05 at 10:48pm
Fallen: not sure I made myself clear. I have no problem whatever with several lines being produced simultaneously. Absolutely. Where I get nervous (about our projection - the bifurcation - ) is why haven't we seen more talk about the coming high end.

Although come to think of it Mac Rumors had a pretty detailed Page 2 report (the one that included Blu-Ray) But still... Page 2 and MOSR. Would be nice to have a little more assurance, ya know?
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post #95 of 241
4/20/05 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
Fallen: not sure I made myself clear. I have no problem whatever with several lines being produced simultaneously. Absolutely. Where I get nervous (about our projection - the bifurcation - ) is why haven't we seen more talk about the coming high end.


All of us are walking on eggs here waiting, wondering, stressed to the max because of Apple's cloak and dagger tactics.

After spending $2700 on my G3, I'm not about to blow another $3000
until I see the next revision.

BTW, my Mac fund bank CD for $3200 has now earned me a whopping $13.64 in 2 months \
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post #96 of 241
4/20/05 at 11:29pm
EDIT- it's not worth drudging it out again.
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post #97 of 241
4/20/05 at 11:43pm
Quote:
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
Oh yes painful memories

Receipt dated 12/16/98

PowerMac G3 MiniTower/300 Mhz/64MB RAM,8.5 SCSI, CD ROM,
A/V personality card. $2593

with tax and shipping $2709.69

Education price.

And it still works!

MIne was purchased 5/ 9/99 PM G3 tower 300mhz, originally 64 ram but now 1gb, and a 12gb HD. Im using it right now. Slow as shit basically, but it still works just fine.
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post #98 of 241
4/21/05 at 12:08am
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
EDIT- it's not worth drudging it out again.

I know forgive me, I'm losing it.

6 more weeks Arggggh!

Silver bullet please
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post #99 of 241
4/21/05 at 12:17am
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Dave I'm still hoping that TS is wrong.

I suppose all here we are hoping that TS is wrong. However, this is the detail that makes me think that TS may be right: even if the rumored specifications come out true, the Power Macs will remain competitive, especially if there is at the same time a price drop. Not top performance, not future-proof without PCIe, but competitive for some time still. And certainly not the Mac-Wintel gap of the latest G4 days. The alleged marginal performance improvement plus price drop would make the trick.
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post #100 of 241
4/21/05 at 12:28am
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
What are you talking about ?

Well, even though he's totally wrong, he's actually right.

TS is very bimodal on this - they're either dead-on, or way off, and they were off on a number of things at MWSF.

If TS is right on this, it will be so Apple has a chance to lower the baseline prices for Powermacs. That in itself may not be a bad thing, and you won't be paying $3k for that kit, but $2200.

But I don't buy it. Apple could have shipped 2.7GHz 970FX at MWSF if they wanted given the liquid cooling. We know the 970MP exists, we know a GX exists.

Apple waited a year to roll out new hardware for a reason. It's apparent that they're waiting for WWDC now. I won't speculate on what's going to ship, but I only see 2.7GHz if they've taken this time to seriously cut costs on the Powermac and a big price cut accompanies.

But I still think TS is wrong.
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post #101 of 241
4/21/05 at 12:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by johnsonwax
But I don't buy it. Apple could have shipped 2.7GHz 970FX at MWSF if they wanted given the liquid cooling.

How do we know this? I don't think the liquid cooling is sufficient if IBM cannot produce reliable chips at these clock speeds.

Quote:

We know the 970MP exists, we know a GX exists.

Well, the first one is a fact (see leaked IBM document), the second is just speculation at the moment, reasonable but speculation.

Quote:

Apple waited a year to roll out new hardware for a reason. It's apparent that they're waiting for WWDC now.

I think the reason is the new yearly or so update cycle Apple seems to have established for the G5 machines. It remains to be seen if the iMac proves me wrong on that, I doubt it though.

Quote:

But I still think TS is wrong.

Amen .
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post #102 of 241
4/21/05 at 1:44am
At the risk of creating new false excitement - the UK apple store has moved all the Dual PM's to 7 days shipping. The single 1.8 stays at 24hrs.
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post #103 of 241
4/21/05 at 2:14am
how about this for a theory:

Apple tell TS to publish this bogus story as part of a settlement agreement ... doesn't make sense, but could be possible in order to make everyone blow their loads when the real specs ARE released
or
These specs are spot on, but are, in fact, dual-core chips instead of single-core ...

use it, don't use it.
I just can't believe that after an entire year, all they can muster up is a paltry 200Mhz bump - I don't think even Apple are that bad. surely?
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post #104 of 241
4/21/05 at 3:11am
Quote:
Originally posted by PB

I think the reason is the new yearly or so update cycle Apple seems to have established for the G5 machines


Historically Apple likes to update every 6 to 8 months on the "Power" machines. They, and IBM have had G5 issues to deal with that has slowed the process. Yearly updates is not a new PowerMac standard that is set in stone. It's an issue that is being dealt with in the best way possible for us, and Apple.
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post #105 of 241
4/21/05 at 3:23am
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Yearly updates is not a new PowerMac standard that is set in stone. It's an issue that is being dealt with in the best way possible for us, and Apple.

Of course it is not set in stone, but the rather slow evolution of the G5 may impose a slower update cycle, seemingly around one year. I don't think it is something G5-specific, rather a reflection of what happens in the CPU industry sometime now already.
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post #106 of 241
4/21/05 at 3:43am
i guess if apple was planning on slowing down the update cycle we would have already seen more price cuts on the powermac lineup. it just doesn't seem reasonable otherwise.
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post #107 of 241
4/21/05 at 4:45am
Quote:
Originally posted by Hiro
Could have what??? They haven't announced anything and you are second guessing what they could have done??? Saying something about after a year. If you are talking about updates you have to wait a couple months--like July before you can talk about a year passing. Do you own a time machine? Or have you just lost perspective?

Its this complete sudden near global acceptance of the worst rumor to come along as ground truth, despite real evidence that superior hardware exists someplace, and incredibly loose date math, which leads to WRONG statements disguised as past tense fact that is absolutely inane.


Easy buddy, we are in a thread talking about speculation from a website. Please read all post in this thread with that in mind.

Besides, I was stating that as fact. I am just proposing if the rumor is true, you think they could have made better advancements in places besides CPU land where they have options in front of them. That's it.
Hard-Core.
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post #108 of 241
4/21/05 at 6:17am
one ray of hope seems to be Steves involvment with ultra high end video, and Apples passion for high end production software. Why make this amazing stuff like FCP studio to compete with Avid, only to have it run on lackluster equipment? Theres more to loose with Apple dropping the ball on the PM line than just PM sales.

I wonder if Apple wants to base everything around the Xgrid thing, sell moderatly powerful clients, with racks of Xserves to help when needed??? this would obviously be only for the high end however.
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post #109 of 241
4/21/05 at 6:36am
Pretty sure someone already covered this, but
Final Cut Studio requires an AGP Quartz Extreme Graphics card.

That's not looking too promising for PCI-E :-(
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post #110 of 241
4/21/05 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
Pretty sure someone already covered this, but
Final Cut Studio requires an AGP Quartz Extreme Graphics card.

That's not looking too promising for PCI-E :-(

Apple wouldn't slip up and put PCI-E in an announcement unless they were already shipping PCI-E computers.
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post #111 of 241
4/21/05 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy
I can understand disappointment, because we are eager to see a Power Mac with dual core chips. However, I don't see any reason to be pessimistic, as a few seem to be. Dual core Power Macs will be here when they are ready. I'm sure no one wants them more than the crew at Apple, so Power Macs begin selling well.

If the 970MP is really ready to go, then Think Secret is wrong and we'll see new Power Macs any day now. If the chips are not ready, we'll likely see the predicted speed bump now, with all new Power Macs later this year.

I feel certain that the chip is the critical path, not the Apple hardware, and that is not a reason to criticize IBM. It's a tough job making the best possible CPU, and IBM want it to be right too, for use in their blade servers.

That's fine and all with the cpu's... if IBM can only make 2.7ghz fine. But why not upgrade anything else? The graphics card, the graphics card slot, the ram, the hard drives, the case, the dvdrw's... etc. There is so many things apple could have upgraded, but according to the rumored specs they have ONLY added 200mhz to the clockspeed.

 

 

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post #112 of 241
4/21/05 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally posted by johnsonwax
Apple waited a year to roll out new hardware for a reason. It's apparent that they're waiting for WWDC now. I won't speculate on what's going to ship, but I only see 2.7GHz if they've taken this time to seriously cut costs on the Powermac and a big price cut accompanies.

But I still think TS is wrong.

The reason??? The fact that supply vs demand is way off. Their supply is so much higher than demand at this point. They are swamped with Powermacs, everyone has been waiting and waiting for the 3ghz barrier and numerous other things (pci-e). They will continue to wait until the machines contain these specs, at the same time the powermac sales will suffer. Apple will try to ride the wave as long as they can to get rid of as many machines possible.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #113 of 241
4/21/05 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
Easy buddy, we are in a thread talking about speculation from a website. Please read all post in this thread with that in mind.

Besides, I was stating that as fact. I am just proposing if the rumor is true, you think they could have made better advancements in places besides CPU land where they have options in front of them. That's it.

I am, but you have been writing in difinitive past tense. The hypothetical "I was stating something as hypothetical fact" is a complete garbage after the fact cop-out. If you want to make comments on the rumor hypothetically, make it explicitly clear in the post. Anything else is irresponsible and doesn't help anyone.

You aren't the only one with this same weakness though, this thread and it's realitives all over the net all have the same misplaced past tense judgmental tone about them without any upfront mention that it only applies it the rumor is true. This may just be a rumor site, but that doesn't make sloppy communication OK.
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post #114 of 241
4/21/05 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
That's fine and all with the cpu's... if IBM can only make 2.7ghz fine. But why not upgrade anything else? The graphics card, the graphics card slot, the ram, the hard drives, the case, the dvdrw's... etc. There is so many things apple could have upgraded, but according to the specs they have ONLY added 200mhz to the clockspeed.

No, according to the rumored specs they MIGHT only add 200Mhz to the CPU speed. It's a rumor, treat it as such, not like you would comment as if it was last weeks shipping product.

Not only a big difference language-wise there but ask yourself this. When has Apple EVER only made a tiny bump in CPU speed without changing anything else after 9-10 months? Does this make you look a the rumor any differently? Even the last low key PB speed bumps (only 1.33-> 1.5Ghz) upgraded the HD, graphics, Bluetooth and Airport Extreme availability -- and slightly lower prices.
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post #115 of 241
4/21/05 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
This quote reminded me of the story - oh about 3 months ago - of the Apple division chief who suddenly left. Wasn't he in hardware? Anybody know the whys and wherefores of the story?

He has been layed off since the next Power Mac update was going to bring only a 200 MHz speed bump in the high end, the old Radeon 9600 as GPU in the standard configuration, no PCIe nor PCI-X 2.0, no Blue-Ray superdrives, and no 970MP processors, only the old 970FX .
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post #116 of 241
4/21/05 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by Hiro
No, according to the rumored specs they MIGHT only add 200Mhz to the CPU speed. It's a rumor, treat it as such, not like you would comment as if it was last weeks shipping product.

Not only a big difference language-wise there but ask yourself this. When has Apple EVER only made a tiny bump in CPU speed without changing anything else after 9-10 months? Does this make you look a the rumor any differently? Even the last low key PB speed bumps (only 1.33-> 1.5Ghz) upgraded the HD, graphics, Bluetooth and Airport Extreme availability -- and slightly lower prices.

Actually that was the 1.5ghz -> 1.67ghz upgrade they did all that. The 1.33ghz -> 1.5ghz upgrade all they added was another 133mhz AND the OPTION to upgrade the vram to 128mb from 64mb on the top of the line 17" and 15". Everything else stayed teh same after 10 months

And if you look at my previous posting you'll notice on the last line I put "rumored specs" for clarification. I'm not saying anything is set in stone, but TS has had a pretty damn good track record. Even if their announcement dates have been off in the last year, their specs have been dead on except for the powermacs that were last updated, they said they were going to be dual 2.6 and they ended up being dual 2.5.

 

 

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post #117 of 241
4/21/05 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Actually that was the 1.5ghz -> 1.67ghz upgrade they did all that. The 1.33ghz -> 1.5ghz upgrade all they added was another 133mhz AND the OPTION to upgrade the vram to 128mb from 64mb on the top of the line 17" and 15". Everything else stayed teh same after 10 months

And if you look at my previous posting you'll notice on the last line I put "rumored specs" for clarification. I'm not saying anything is set in stone, but TS has had a pretty damn good track record. Even if their announcement dates have been off in the last year, their specs have been dead on except for the powermacs that were last updated, they said they were going to be dual 2.6 and they ended up being dual 2.5.

The airport extreme/bluetooth being added as standard happened during the 1.33ghz -> 1.5ghz upgrade. That's when I bought mine.

I believe they also upgraded the 12" PB's graphics from the 420go chip to the 5200 series chip at that time.
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post #118 of 241
4/21/05 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy
I don't see any reason to be pessimistic, as a few seem to be. Dual core Power Macs will be here when they are ready. I'm sure no one wants them more than the crew at Apple, so Power Macs begin selling well.

If the chips are not ready, we'll likely see the predicted speed bump now, with all new Power Macs later this year.

It's a tough job making the best possible CPU, and IBM want it to be right too, for use in their blade servers.

I remember similar platitudes from when we were all waiting for Motorola's mythical 8400 G5. The Register even had articles on Moto's new G5 beast, that was supposedly going to be on Hypertransport muthaboard and would have a fast on-die memory controller.

The Motorola G5 was NEVER ready. What if Apple's IBM relationship has taken a turn down the same road? What if the reason IBM won't deliver a dual-core CPU to Apple is that it's not worth the investment because the Apple's volumes are too tiny?

This is why I hope TS's reputation craters with the release of new Powermacs.
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post #119 of 241
4/21/05 at 10:17am
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<conspiracy hat>
Of course, TS could be pumping out knowingly false info in an effort to break their own reputation with Apple as a solid source, thereby making them look like more of the little guy in court... that's a much larger obstacle to their continued existence than one wrong prediction.
</conspiracy hat>
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post #120 of 241
4/21/05 at 10:29am
I don't buy that at all. All of Apple's evidence has already been gathered over YEARS. And since Nick claims to have such high journalistic standards, I find it doubtful he would want to do that.
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