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Verizon, Sprint pass on iTunes phone

post #1 of 68
Thread Starter 
Most major wireless companies, including Verizon Wireless and Sprint, have reportedly balked at carrying the iTunes phone Apple has been codeveloping with Motorola.

According to an international cover story in the April 25th edition of Business Week, the cell phone carriers, along with Cingular/ATT, have very different perspectives on how digital music stores should work and are expected to charge between $2 and $3 for wireless music downloads when they introduce their services.

"They figure they can charge a premium for the convenience of getting songs anytime, even though customers most likely won't be able to listen to those songs anywhere but on their phones, at least initially," wrote Business Week's Roger Crockett. He cites a source close to Apple who says wireless operators are "simply being unrealistic" if they expect customers to pay $2 or $3 for a song, especially with restrictions.

Instead the operators want customers to download songs over the air, directly to handsets. But the iTunes phone would allow customers to download songs to a PC or Mac and then copy them to the phone. "It's hard for people in any industry to support something that cuts them out of potential future revenue streams," said Graeme Ferguson, director for global content development at Vodafone Group PLC.

Still, Motorola told Business Week it expects at least one carrier will begin selling the iTunes phone this summer. With Verizon, Sprint and Cingular protesting Apple's distribution model, the remaining US-based major wireless carriers include Nextel and T-Mobile. Of the two, insiders believe the latter is the most likely candidate to adopt the phone and drive its customers to iTunes rather than build its own music store.

But is this an immediate concern for Apple? It could be. According to the article, the telecom approach has several strengths Apple can't match. "For starters, a quarter of the world's population already has a mobile phone. That's 1.4 billion people, compared with 10 million iPods sold to date. Most of those cell-phone toters pay a monthly phone bill, making it a snap to add a music charge. Perhaps most important, wireless technology could provide access anytime, anywhere to millions of songs."

Research firm Strategy Analytics estimates that in 2008 half of the 860 million cell phones sold will be able to store and play songs, compared to about 8% today.

Already technological advances in storage, compression, battery life, and wireless networks are making it easier to receive and store high-quality music on phones. The Business Week article notes that Korea's Samsung Electronics just introduced a phone with a 3-gigabyte hard drive, enough to store 1,000 songs, and says a 10GB phone could hit the market "within two years."

Meanwhile, International wireless operators are already providing a sense of what's possible at the edge of the digital music frontier. Says Crockett, "Korea's SK Telecom Co. offers a $5 a month music subscription that allows customers to download any of 700,000 songs to a phone, PC, or music player. That makes the subscription much more convenient than similar services in the U.S. because Korean customers can get any song they want, wherever and whenever they want it." Since its launch in November, a reported 300,000 people have signed up. "We are not yet making money, but we see a big potential for profits from music," said Shin Won Soo, a senior manager in charge of SK Telecom's music business. His company is expected to exit the red by the time it hits 800,000 subscribers. "That conjures up the possibility that with music phones, consumers around the world could opt to pay a monthly fee for all the new music they desire, rather than buying individual CDs when they debut."

Wireless operators in the US have to look no further than ringtones to know the proof is in the pudding. According to Business Week, these song snippets which go for $1 to $3 per download have evolved into a $5.8 billion business that is expected to reach $9.4 billion in 2008.

"Because [wireless companies] bill mobile customers each month, they wouldn't have to pay credit-card charges to Visa or MasterCard. That's not much of an edge over iTunes when customers buy a $9.99 album," wrote Crockett. "But if they buy single songs for 99 cents at iTunes, the fees total a significant 17 cents to 20 cents. Bottom line: Verizon, Cingular, and Sprint could end up lowering their prices to $1 a song and still make more profit than Apple does."
post #2 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
"Because [wireless companies] bill mobile customers each month, they wouldn't have to pay credit-card charges to Visa or MasterCard. That's not much of an edge over iTunes when customers buy a $9.99 album," wrote Crockett. "But if they buy single songs for 99 cents at iTunes, the fees total a significant 17 cents to 20 cents.

Okay, I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but this seems to state that the credit card charges are 17 to 20 cents per song purchased individually. There is no possible way.

Average Visa/MC charges are between 1.5% and 3%. Amex is always a bit more at 3.5%-ish. Something is missing here or the analyst is talking out of his ass.
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post #3 of 68
None of these carriers are gonna offer the iTunes phone as long as there are incompetent morons who have no brain power and an IQ below 75 willing to pay 3 dollars a song that they can ONLY listen too on their small-ass little cellphones..

This phone will only work if all these idiots die.. I mean how stupid are these people that download $5.6 billion dollars worth of HORRIBLE sounding ringtones for 3 dollars each.. I mean it surpasses all logic and common sense.

Idiots
post #4 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by webavatar
None of these carriers are gonna offer the iTunes phone as long as there are incompetent morons who have no brain power and an IQ below 75 willing to pay 3 dollars a song that they can ONLY listen too on their small-ass little cellphones..

This phone will only work if all these idiots die.. I mean how stupid are these people that download $5.6 billion dollars worth of HORRIBLE sounding ringtones for 3 dollars each.. I mean it surpasses all logic and common sense.

Idiots

hmm, where did that strategy of calling people idiots worked before (let me think here.. thinking... thinking.. thinking..) oh never mind.

Customers may be idiots but verizon, sprint and cingular are not. People do indeed pay a lot for ringtones and if people decided not to pay a lot for ringtones, verizon, cingular and sprint can always lower the fee to $1 and not pay a cent to apple and still make more money than apple per song. So if i was an executive with any cell phone company, i'd ask myself why would i even consider using an itunes phone?. The problem apple has with persuading cell companies to use their phones extend to any other music company. I doubt Napster, microsoft, etc could persuade the cell companies either (if they made corresponding phone product). I think this is a losing proposition for apple. Personally, i can't believe Motorola, a veteran in the cell phone industry, allowed apple to talk them into this. Apple is a neophyte when it comes to dealing with the cell carriers.

I can't believe someone thought the cell companies would be interested in being a conduit for apple to make more money. Anyway you look at apple proposed itunes phone, the cell companies would be idiots to adopt it. Which makes me wonder, who is running T-Mobile? Yeah, lets see... hmmm. provide a phone where customers no longer need to buy your ringtones, they would buy their music from itunes store, use itunes software to load to phone thereby significantly reducing your revenue and causing you to subsidize phones even less (all cell phone companies subsidize their phones)... yeah, brilliant business strategy (not!!).
post #5 of 68
Quote:
Which makes me wonder, who is running T-Mobile? Yeah, lets see... hmmm. provide a phone where customers no longer need to buy your ringtones, they would buy their music from itunes store, use itunes software to load to phone thereby significantly reducing your revenue and causing you to subsidize phones even less (all cell phone companies subsidize their phones)... yeah, brilliant business strategy (not!!).

Or, there'll be a whole bunch of people who want the phone, because it offers more flexibility, and the music costs so much less. Customers flock to T-Mobile, leaving the other carriers in the dust. By the time the others catch up, T-Mobile is way out in the lead.

While offering customers something they want doesn't always guarantee business success, it also doesn't guarantee failure.
post #6 of 68
Hopefully Apple got better terms than 17¢ per $1 transaction. If that was really the rate, you'd see Apple doing more to encourage customers batch charges larger quantities of charges.
post #7 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
Average Visa/MC charges are between 1.5% and 3%. Amex is always a bit more at 3.5%-ish. Something is missing here or the analyst is talking out of his ass.

When you're talking about the quantity of transactions that Apple facilitates with iTunes, you bring yourself into the realm of "micropayments." That is, they're not paying much of a transaction fee at all. In all likelihood, it's less than 1%.

I know this to be true because my company deals directly with credit cards, merhcant services, and the like.
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post #8 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by Splinemodel
When you're talking about the quantity of transactions that Apple facilitates with iTunes, you bring yourself into the realm of "micropayments." That is, they're not paying much of a transaction fee at all. In all likelihood, it's less than 1%.

I know this to be true because my company deals directly with credit cards, merhcant services, and the like.

Absolutely ... I was just stating the average rates that are charged to merchant accounts. I'd agree with you that Apple negotiated a much better rate than is offered to the typical business, especially considering that a large portion of the sales are going to be for single tracks at 99 cents.

Either way, it's not going to be anywhere near the percentage that the analyst quoted. That would be insane.
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post #9 of 68
The most desirable customers buy their own unlocked phone anyway - it does not matter if the cell phone services "support" the phone or not.

Cingular does not support the SE P800, does not stop me from buying and using one.

Also, 2-3 dollars per song is a no-go. Remember the GTE $3/minute phones on airplanes? Ever seen anyone use one?
Me neither. 0.99 is in "spend without thinking", $3 triggers the "wait a minute, I am getting ripped off" neurons.

Motorola phone suck, though - I wish that Apple would make their own phone (maybe a taller version of the mini).
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post #10 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by TrevorD
Or, there'll be a whole bunch of people who want the phone, because it offers more flexibility, and the music costs so much less. Customers flock to T-Mobile, leaving the other carriers in the dust. By the time the others catch up, T-Mobile is way out in the lead.

While offering customers something they want doesn't always guarantee business success, it also doesn't guarantee failure.

Trevor, have you ever paid full price for a cell phone?.
I don't think verizon, sprint or cingular have to worry about that.
post #11 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
The most desirable customers buy their own unlocked phone anyway - it does not matter if the cell phone services "support" the phone or not.

Cingular does not support the SE P800, does not stop me from buying and using one.

Also, 2-3 dollars per song is a no-go. Remember the GTE $3/minute phones on airplanes? Ever seen anyone use one?
Me neither. 0.99 is in "spend without thinking", $3 triggers the "wait a minute, I am getting ripped off" neurons.

Motorola phone suck, though - I wish that Apple would make their own phone (maybe a taller version of the mini).

Which planet are you people from?. The most desirable buy their own unlocked phone?. You guys sure have significant amount of disposable income. Over 90% of the population do not buy their own unlocked phones. Only if a cell company is trying to get less than 10% market share would they consider folks who buy unlocked phones most desirable.
post #12 of 68
A wireless carrier that goes with it's own service rather than iTunes will have to maintain that service. That can be costly and cause them to spread their resources too thin. I just wonder if they've done the math. I'd rather see the carriers let Apple do the dirty work. They could share in the profits and concentrate on improving things like the range, reception and reliability of their wireless service.

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post #13 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by TrevorD
Or, there'll be a whole bunch of people who want the phone, because it offers more flexibility, and the music costs so much less. Customers flock to T-Mobile, leaving the other carriers in the dust. By the time the others catch up, T-Mobile is way out in the lead.

While offering customers something they want doesn't always guarantee business success, it also doesn't guarantee failure.

curious, how does an itunes phone offer more flexibility.
What if verizon came out with their own product and offered songs for a buck. How is the itunes phone offering more flexibility. There would be only one way to get music to the phone and that's through itunes. How exactly is that flexible?. Have you read how this phone is supposed to work?.
For apple, it makes sense to offer the itunes phone, for verizon, it makes no sense. Verizon is not a subsidiary of Apple. They are not in the business of expanding apples business model. Motorola on the other hand is in the business of expanding the business of whatever cell carrier they deal with and vice versa. Apple has to offer value to the carriers and the itunes phone offer no value at all. In a mp3 player, a consumer might care where their music comes from or what player they are using because they are buying total experience. Cell phones are different. Consumers would not care exactly where their music comes from so the fact it does not come from itunes is not a penalty in this field. All consumers care about is that the phone can download music. That's it. If they wanted to expand their music collection on the computer, they'll sign up for an itunes account and download there. Apple should know better. This is one reason they have resisted marrying their computer with tv. They know consumers think of a computer differently than they think of a tv. Why would they think a regular consumer (my mother, father, grandmother, the kids, etc) would be interested in playing around with a computer to get songs on their phones?. If apple doesn't currently think this demographic is ready for a tv/computer combo, why would they be ready for a phone/computer combo?.

Do you know how few people even use their bluetooth phones to sync with their computer?. Heck, i am a techie and i don't know how to do it and don't even care to know. A phone is a phone. I don't want to hook it up to a computer!!.
post #14 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
A wireless carrier that goes with it's own service rather than iTunes will have to maintain that service. That can be costly and cause them to spread their resources too thin. I just wonder if they've done the math. I'd rather see the carriers let Apple do the dirty work. They could share in the profits and concentrate on improving things like the range, reception and reliability of their wireless service.

I'm betting apple is not sharing the profits else verizon might have jumped on board. That's the point i'm trying to make. Why would verizon do something that only benefits apple?. You should read about this issue elsewhere, you'd realize that it would be ludicrious for verizon to use this phone. Apple has to share the profit. They have to. Until then , few carriers will be interested
post #15 of 68
"a quarter of the world's population already has a mobile phone. That's 1.4 billion people, compared with 10 million iPods sold to date."

Yes, but more than 10 million have computers (not to mention CD players)... and that's all you need to enjoy iTMS. You don't need an iPod.

So $2 to $3? No way.

As for mobile carriers being able to make more profit at $1 than iTMS does... sure, but who cares? iTMS is a successful part of a whole system for Apple. It doesn't need to make another 20 cents per song in order to compete. All it needs to do is sell iPods
post #16 of 68
Quote:
What if verizon came out with their own product and offered songs for a buck. How is the itunes phone offering more flexibility. There would be only one way to get music to the phone and that's through itunes. How exactly is that flexible?. Have you read how this phone is supposed to work?.

Yeah, but aren't they planning on charging two to three times that much (i.e. much more expensive, especially if you've already bought the song elsewhere)? And aren't they planning on tying the songs to the phone (i.e. not very flexible at all)?

And I can't imagine it would be easy to navigate a music store on the typical cell phone. Once in awhile, maybe, if I hear a song I just have to have, but on a regular basis? Sounds like a pain to me.
post #17 of 68
This is why I hate phone/wireless companies. Why can't they charge the consumer for voice/data service, and nothing else? The whole process is totally convoluted. They shouldn't receive any payment from Apple. They should be making their money from the data transfer. That's it.
post #18 of 68
I have thousands of songs on my computer that I would like to listen to on my mobile phone. I bought many of them using iTunes. There are millions more like me.
post #19 of 68
or apple can always repackage another cell carrier's services under the apple moniker and go it from there.

Virgin does it with Sprint.

Apple/Moto cell phones with the apple logo perhaps.

And as a matter of fact I do buy unlocked phones so that I can use them with whichever carrier I want worldwide.
post #20 of 68
I wonder if the fact that the other big three (Sprint, Verizon and Cingular) passed on the idea made it more appealing for T-Mobile to pick it up. With all the huge telecommunication mergers that have been going on lately T-Mobile is kind of stuck in the 4th spot with nowhere to go really. Maybe they see this as their chance. Ecspecially now that the others have passed this is their way to make a big move in the cellular world if the mobile ITMS is a success without having to spend all the big bucks of implementing their own infustructure. T-mobile already has the Entertainment peeps using their sidekicks and phones. I think it will work in their benfit to be the sole carrier jumping on to use the ITMS phones. Especially if they could eventually offer the phone for free with new signups.

Oh and I buy my phones unlocked as well.
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post #21 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by wnurse
Do you know how few people even use their bluetooth phones to sync with their computer?. Heck, i am a techie and i don't know how to do it and don't even care to know. A phone is a phone. I don't want to hook it up to a computer!!.

Actually the number of people who use bluetooth to sync to their computers is limited because, surprise!, the phone companies tend to disable bluetooth in their phones they offer their customers. They want you to use THEIR networks to get data on the phone. Its like a lot of camera phones. Many of them, which are offered by the phone companies, don't allow you to download the pictures to your computer. You have to mail them to yourself.

And that's what truly parasitical the whole cell business is. They want you as a customer, but then attempting to force you to use ALL of their services. Airtime is money, so if you want to do something with your phone, they want to make sure they get their money.

I know, I know, they 'subsidize' the phone, they can do what they want. That doesn't make them 'good'.

Oh, and, yes, calling those people who spend money on ringtones (I mean, its freakin' ringtones!) idiots is a valid statement. Actually, most that money was probably spent by teenagers (and pre-teens) who's parents pay for it, so what do they care.

As will be calling all those people who spend $3 on a song they can't play anywhere but on their phone 'incomparable idiots'. But, as we all know, big business was built on the concept of "The customer is a stupid, gullible person who'll buy anything you stick in front of their face if you make it seem like its a good thing".
post #22 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by nagromme
"a quarter of the world's population already has a mobile phone. That's 1.4 billion people, compared with 10 million iPods sold to date."

Yes, but more than 10 million have computers (not to mention CD players)... and that's all you need to enjoy iTMS. You don't need an iPod.

So $2 to $3? No way.

And how many of those 1.4 billion have phones that double as MP3 players? Oh, yeah, that's pretty much none right now.

I think you are right. 2-3 dollars is a non-starter. It's not really comparable to ring-tones. You buy those so that OTHER people can hear them, and think, "Wow, he's so cool he's got Kaiser Cheifs on his phone." That is worth 2-3 dollars from really annoying and insecure people.

But to build a music collection around? On a telephone with limited memory? When you can't move it to your computer or you stereo or burn a CD? I don't think so.

I will buy this phone if a carrier pick it up, just to stick a finger in the eye of the greedy idiots running the carriers.
post #23 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
"Because [wireless companies] bill mobile customers each month, they wouldn't have to pay credit-card charges to Visa or MasterCard. That's not much of an edge over iTunes when customers buy a $9.99 album," wrote Crockett. "But if they buy single songs for 99 cents at iTunes, the fees total a significant 17 cents to 20 cents. Bottom line: Verizon, Cingular, and Sprint could end up lowering their prices to $1 a song and still make more profit than Apple does."

Maybe I'm a minority, but my cell phone is paid monthly automatically off my credit card.
post #24 of 68
Quote:
But is this an immediate concern for Apple? It could be. According to the article, the telecom approach has several strengths Apple can't match. "For starters, a quarter of the world's population already has a mobile phone. That's 1.4 billion people, compared with 10 million iPods sold to date. Most of those cell-phone toters pay a monthly phone bill, making it a snap to add a music charge. Perhaps most important, wireless technology could provide access anytime, anywhere to millions of songs."

I can't understand this reasoning. OK, so 1.4 billion people have a mobile phone, but how many of them are of the cellphones with a jukebox? How many of them will use their current cellphones as an inPod replacement?
Quote:
Research firm Strategy Analytics estimates that in 2008 half of the 860 million cell phones sold will be able to store and play songs, compared to about 8% today.

This is a much more reasonable argument to illustrate mobile carriers' advantage.
Quote:
Wireless operators in the US have to look no further than ringtones to know the proof is in the pudding. According to Business Week, these song snippets which go for $1 to $3 per download have evolved into a $5.8 billion business that is expected to reach $9.4 billion in 2008.

I don't know much about the ringtone business and I don't really care about paying $3 for one to use with my cellphone, but really, do average people buy ringtones over and over? Or do they just buy a favorite song for their ringtone and that's it? Personally, I don't know anyone who keeps buying ringtones.
post #25 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by wnurse
curious, how does an itunes phone offer more flexibility.
What if verizon came out with their own product and offered songs for a buck. How is the itunes phone offering more flexibility. There would be only one way to get music to the phone and that's through itunes. How exactly is that flexible?. Have you read how this phone is supposed to work?.

It's more flexible because you can play the song from the PC/Mac, iPod and phone, not just the phone as the carriers are suggesting. Also if it's an Apple solution it'll be like the iPod and extremely easy to use, probably by USB and BlueTooth. The iPods success is it's ease of use, that's what people want, not an expensive, limited option. I know what I'd choose, and most people, I'm sure would agree.

$3 for a song played only on your phone - if phone's lost so is the song

0.99¢ for a song playable on your Mac/PC, iPod and phone - if the phone's lost it was on the computer and vice versa.

I think it's a clear choice. Also in the UK carriers charge for the download a swell a 4MB song would cost around £10 because they charge £2.35 per MB.

But then I can't see the whole ringtone market so maybe the carriers have got a hit, I certainly wouldn't waste money on downloading stupid sounds for the ringtone (my phone is always on silent!)
post #26 of 68
The only advantage that the iTunes phone would offer a carrier would be IMHO marketing. By offering the iTunes phone, the carrier would be able to jump on the iTunes/iPod bandwagon and piggyback on the marketing and advertising that's already in place.

"iPod mobile" anyone?

I think the only mobile carrier this could work for would be T-Mobile. One of their marketing points is they're the "cool" mobile carrier and this plays in with the iPod cache. They also probably don't have the influence and power to negiotate successfully with the record labels so creating their own music store could be difficult.

I just wish Motorola would release the phone already. As long as it's a GSM phone, it shouldn't matter what carrier you use it on.
post #27 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSparkle
This is why I hate phone/wireless companies. Why can't they charge the consumer for voice/data service, and nothing else? The whole process is totally convoluted. They shouldn't receive any payment from Apple. They should be making their money from the data transfer. That's it.

I just laugh at all of this. The day my cellular service can handle voice calls without losing the signal is the day i will consider additional services like music dwnloads. Till then they can offer me trips to the moon but I will NOT pay an additional $.
post #28 of 68
Just thought of something else. This would be a perfect opportunity for Napster-To-Go to make some headway against Apple. The music rental model is perfect for the mobile market, imagine paying an additional $10 per month for access to a million songs that you can play anytime with your cell phone. And if you lose your phone, the songs are still there and next year when you buy a new phone and don't care about the songs you listened to on your old phone, you still get access to the latest and greatest. And honestly, the people who are gonna pay for music on cell phone plans are kids and young adults, who most likely listen to pop, hip-hop, rap, alternative, etc., genres that always have a "latest hit" that everyone wants to listen to.

And an added advantage, what if you could reuse the subscription on your home computer for access to those same songs. They could follow satellite radio's model. $15/month for the first access line and $8 for each additional access line. So if you wanted just the cell phone access to Napster, it's $15/month. If you then wanted to add on access from your computer/mp3 device, it's an additional $8/month. Conversely if you have NTG already, it would cost $8/month additional to also get it on your cell phone. To incent mobile carriers to push the NTG phone, they'd get $10/month if the customer signs up with NTG through them, otherwise it's $5/month for current NTG customers. Mobile carriers get the added advantage on not running their own music store and the associated negotiations that are needed (though a company as big as Cingular or Verizon may feel they can get better rates than Napster).

Anyway, this is off the top of my head, but the same thing could work for iTMS also if they offered a rental option. This could be the way for them to introduce the service.
post #29 of 68
As much as Apple has pushed Motorola around about the phone I'm surprised ANYONE releases an iTunes phone.
post #30 of 68
I almost spit my drink all over my keyboard when I read this. Some of you guys make good points here, but don't underestimate T-Mobile even though they are a distant 4th right now. They are backed by Duetsche Telekom who know a thing or two about the business. If they pick this iTunes phone and run with it, they may be able to make people think twice about choosing a cell carrier who are big music lovers, like myself.

I can't understand the fascination with ringtones, but I guess I am not in grade school anymore either. I just recently went to hear an A&R rep from RCA records talk to a class at NYU and I was astonished at how the ringtone market is growing and how much coin the record companies are making off them. With regard to future music services via the cell carriers, I'll shit myself the first time some pinhead pays $2 or $3 for a download that only plays on the handset.

Is it true Apple does not want to share any revenue with the carriers? They may have to rethink this strategy if they want to get this service to the big boys at some point and get an economy of scale going. I agree with one of the posters who said that maybe the cost of running a music store is not in the best interest of the carriers right now - they better have a damn good model from the start.

Just my rant.
post #31 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by wnurse
Which planet are you people from?. The most desirable buy their own unlocked phone?. You guys sure have significant amount of disposable income. Over 90% of the population do not buy their own unlocked phones. Only if a cell company is trying to get less than 10% market share would they consider folks who buy unlocked phones most desirable.

Even from a financial perspective, buying unlocked phones is the only way to go. Think of all you are losing when you get a free phone:

- usually you pay for a 2 year contract, most of the time that plan has more minutes than you need
- no flexibility to change plans, unless they are more expensive
- no flexibility to drop your service for a while if you won't be using the phone
- if there is a special rate or rate drop during the contract period, you miss out
- no ability to move to other services
- if you move out of the good service area for a provider, then you are screwed
- they disable bluetooth, from what I hear
- limited ability to sell the phone on eBay when you want a better one

Even if you are buying a cheap phone, buying an unlocked version is a better deal. I buy expensive phones, and use pre-paid wireless, because the non-phone (PDA, for example) functions of the device are more important to me than the calling - I save about $300/year compared to what I would pay "getting the phone for free" - so it pays for the phone in 2 years.
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post #32 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by TrevorD
Or, there'll be a whole bunch of people who want the phone, because it offers more flexibility, and the music costs so much less. Customers flock to T-Mobile, leaving the other carriers in the dust. By the time the others catch up, T-Mobile is way out in the lead.

HeHe. Thanks for the laugh.

T-Mobile is a little fish.

It's not leaving any of those other companies "in the dust" just because of an iTunes phone.

That being said, I don't understand the logic that says because ringtones are $3 a pop, being able to transfer tracks bought from the iTMS to your phone would disrupt that business. I mean, maybe they'd have to lower the price for ringtones, which would be a good thing. But I don't think you would be able to set your iTunes playlist on your phone as your ringtone anyway.

Oh well! Either way, bad news for Apple as far as cell phones go.
post #33 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by TrevorD
Or, there'll be a whole bunch of people who want the phone, because it offers more flexibility, and the music costs so much less. Customers flock to T-Mobile, leaving the other carriers in the dust. By the time the others catch up, T-Mobile is way out in the lead.

one problem - t-mobles coverage is worse than sprint - and sprint is horrible

And if Apple cell phones fail, I would be just as happt - The last thing we need is moddern "music" coming from the crappy cell speaker - like we dont have enough of that already.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #34 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
one problem - t-mobles coverage is worse than sprint - and sprint is horrible

Depends on where you are. In my area, Sprint is horrible and T-Mobile is actually better.
post #35 of 68
I would have to agree...in my area T-Mobile is way better than sprint. Its why I switched.

Sprint = sit by window and hope for half a bar
T-Mobile = 4 bars from inside closet of the bathroom in my basement

Of coarse I know it varies for eveyrone...thats just me.

Anyone want to sell me a Moto Rzr phone for 50 bucks so I can test it?
-Adam
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-Adam
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post #36 of 68
From a European perspective T-mobile are actually a much bigger deal over here and do indeed have a cool-quotient that would be a fit for Apple. In addition there is more potential for unlocked phones and services across Europe. A very successful no-frills cheap pay-as-you-go service exists in Denmark (I think) and has completely changed the market there. Stelios from the Easy company is trying to the same in the UK but hasn't made huge headway yet.

I think there is a definite possibility that people will become dissillusioned with the convoluted cross-subsidised price-fixed monopolies that the mobile carriers represent.
post #37 of 68
Quote:
Wireless operators in the US have to look no further than ringtones to know the proof is in the pudding. According to Business Week, these song snippets which go for $1 to $3 per download have evolved into a $5.8 billion business that is expected to reach $9.4 billion in 2008.

Ringtones are a $5.8 billion business!?!? F*cking obnoxious ringtones? People have purchased something like 2,900,000,000 ringtones at around $2 apiece?!?!

I need an escape plan from this planet. Fast.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #38 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
Ringtones are a $5.8 billion business!?!? F*cking obnoxious ringtones? People have purchased something like 2,900,000,000 ringtones at around $2 apiece?!?!

I need an escape plan from this planet. Fast.

AGREED.
post #39 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by Apparatus
AGREED.

can i come with you?
post #40 of 68
"For starters, a quarter of the world's population already has a mobile phone. That's 1.4 billion people, compared with 10 million iPods sold to date."

This is pretty much the same argument given when Apple came out with iTunes. Windows users 97%. Apple 2%. iTunes will die.

Uhhhhhh. I think the phone companies that don't hop on board early will feel much like MS and Sony feel now.
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
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iPad2 16 GB Wifi

Who is worse? A TROLL or a person that feeds & quotes a TROLL? You're both idiots.....
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