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Updated Apple Power Mac G5 systems en route to company stores - Page 2

post #41 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Louzer
Then this just shows stupid marketing/hardware development on Apple's side. Who's going to upgrade from any current tower to the new ones without some reason. Dual core would be a reason. Maybe 3GHz would be a reason. PCIe would definitely be a reason. But this is just another "Hey, look at us! We can't get better chips from IBM, and we don't want to spend any of our money actually trying to make the current systems better, so we're just going to take our original 2-year old machine, slap a couple extra megs of RAM in there, maybe boost the video card, and call it an upgrade.

All I know is that if that's all this update is, the only people buying them will be those who absolutely NEED them. Everyone else (including myself) will be sitting on the sideline because there ain't much there compared to what was there, again TWO YEARS AGO! Its like taking a 2003 Civic, sticking in a slightly more powerful engine, upgrading the CD player from 4 to 6 discs, and saying its a 2005 model. Sorry, I don't buy it (and no one else will, either).

What I'm seeing here is the same thing I've been saying for weeks. Calling the current crop of PowerMacs "Pro" machines is like saying the Tampa Bay Devil Rays is a "pro" baseball team.

I can't understand it either. why drop the 9800 and go with 9600 and 9650 boards? That isn't very foward looking. but I quess it's better than the 5200 boards that they were using for the lower models before. At least put 1Gig RAM in the top machine.

What ever happened to that GPU chip developement company they bought a few years ago? I thought we would see something from that.
post #42 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by - J B 7 2 -
Hitch's dad had him locked up when he was really young, just to see what it was like. Just for a few minutes, the idea being to keep him out of trouble later.

His movies were so visceral I think because he rode his early experiences like a cat stalking over a samurai blade, never afraid to explore the horrifying immediacy of evil.

Speaking of the "immediacy of evil." I fear the the immediacy of mediocrity at the moment, and it makes me sick to my stomach.

Interesting. Now that you mentioned it, I seem to remember something about it. Maybe it was that interview.
post #43 of 186
Here is my thoughts. A 200MHz upgrade after a years wait sucks. \

2¢ for Apple

$7000.00 for someone else.
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post #44 of 186
Screw the hardware people ...it's Tiger that you want. The hardware is dumb and rigid by comparison.
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post #45 of 186
Quote:
Then this just shows stupid marketing/hardware development on Apple's side. Who's going to upgrade from any current tower to the new ones without some reason. Dual core would be a reason. Maybe 3GHz would be a reason. PCIe would definitely be a reason. But this is just another "Hey, look at us! We can't get better chips from IBM, and we don't want to spend any of our money actually trying to make the current systems better, so we're just going to take our original 2-year old machine, slap a couple extra megs of RAM in there, maybe boost the video card, and call it an upgrade.

Do you really expect people to upgrade machines that they just bought last year? Who on EARTH replaces machines on such a schedule?

Quote:
Its like taking a 2003 Civic, sticking in a slightly more powerful engine, upgrading the CD player from 4 to 6 discs, and saying its a 2005 model. Sorry, I don't buy it (and no one else will, either).

You do realize, of course, that that's precisely the type of "upgrade" car manufacturers do most often. They don't redesign the car from the ground up every year-- they make small changes most years & total redesigns every 5-6 years or so... This criticism & analogy is just... odd.

[...]

Quote:
I can't understand it either. why drop the 9800 and go with 9600 and 9650 boards?

Huh? drop the 9800? The standard video card in the current top end machine is a 9600 XT, and the others have nVidia 5200s. What makes you say they're dropping the 9800?

Quote:
At least put 1Gig RAM in the top machine.

Agreed. Actually, the bottom machines should have 1GB, and the top machine 2GB. At least that way they could somewhat justify what they're going to charge for them...
post #46 of 186
Why are you guys in such a slump? In my thread about Apples hardware future looking gloomy you all had hope....some how I knew this would happen
post #47 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Gamblor

Huh? drop the 9800? The standard video card in the current top end machine is a 9600 XT, and the others have nVidia 5200s. What makes you say they're dropping the 9800?

[/B]

I should have been clearer. The 9800 board was an option. It isn't any longer. It's gone.

My point was that it should have been used for the top machine, or at least retained as an option.
post #48 of 186
We all know that Apple likes to make a statement with their products. Well it's becoming evidient that just having Dual-Core and PCI-Express wasn't enough for Apple.

I'm know convinced that the next revision after tomorrows will have you all dancing on your keyboards and drooling down your shirts.

It's likely that the timing just wasn't right now.
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post #49 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm know convinced that the next revision after tomorrows will have you all dancing on your keyboards and drooling down your shirts.

Um... Would that be drooling down our shirts in a good way or a bad way?
post #50 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
I'm know convinced that the next revision after tomorrows will have you all dancing on your keyboards and drooling down your shirts.
It's likely that the timing just wasn't right now.

Probably. Problem is, that's like a year away (announced at Macworld in Jan. 2006...shipping in March/April ). At which time PCs will probably be at 4.5 GHZ/dual core/ etc etc etc.

The only good thing about this is that apple stock will dip and we'll all be able to buy more.
post #51 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
2¢ for Apple

Question: how much is the puketastic update worth? I.e. what are you willing to pay for a single core 2.7, no PCIe, 9600? (Assuming you could actually bring yourself to go through with the purchase of this underwhelmer.)

Onlooker was first with $.02 but he would admit this was a 'spite bid'.

I'll bid a bit more, say $1799; I think that's generous. Anyone else higher, lower?
post #52 of 186
Forget processor speeds and types for the moment. That's out of Apple's hands.

The question is, what else can they do in the meantime?

Keeping in mind that the machines cost a certain amount to manufacture, and that a free-fall in pricing isn't about to happen.
post #53 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
Question: how much is the puketastic update worth? I.e. what are you willing to pay for a single core 2.7, no PCIe, 9600? (Assuming you could actually bring yourself to go through with the purchase of this underwhelmer.)

Onlooker was first with $.02 but he would admit this was a 'spite bid'.

I'll bid a bit more, say $1799; I think that's generous. Anyone else higher, lower?

I would accept $2,699 for a Dual 2.7 with a gig of ram and a graphics card that'll make Motion run nice. If the Dual 2.7 comes in at the $,2999 price without same damn good justification, Apple will just be retarded. And they better sell the Dual 2Ghz at $1,799. Sad sad sad. I had hoped that, with this being the 2 year mark, we'd be seeing the "big" update. I've got a lot of people I told to hold off on Powermac purchases until this revision, and sadly I'm going to have to tell them to wait longer unless they really need the machine now (and they don't).

You never want to recommend the last revision of a product's life to someone who only upgrades every 3-4 years.
post #54 of 186
aye, I upgrade about every 3-4 years. and need a powermac NOW.

if these update roll up, and then at wwdc even better powermacs are announced, am going to be pissed!
post #55 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by quamb
aye, I upgrade about every 3-4 years. and need a powermac NOW.

if these update roll up, and then at wwdc even better powermacs are announced, am going to be pissed!

That's a tough situation, needing it and wanting to wait for the big revision. Nobody wants to be the guy that bought the Dual 1.42Ghz Leafblower G4 before the Whisperquiet Dual 2Ghz G5 came out, or the 1.25Ghz Sunflower iMac before the 1.8Ghz G5 iMac came out. When Apple goes for the big revision, it's always leaves a considerable gap between it and the generation it replaces. Mostly just because as a product's life rounds down, Apple really neglects it. The bitches.
post #56 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
All three versions reportedly sport new dual-layer DVD burners.

They'll be the same ones that are fitted to the current machines?
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post #57 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
They'll be the same ones that are fitted to the current machines?

I believe you'll get a Pioneer DVR-A09 16x, dual layer DVD burner. Which is not current BTW.

Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Screw the hardware people ...it's Tiger that you want. The hardware is dumb and rigid by comparison.

Sorry hm. Tiger is what you want. I need the kind of performance, and upgradeability that Tiger, and a dual 2.7GHz Macintosh can't offer. Not from what the reports say anyway.
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post #58 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Screw the hardware people ...it's Tiger that you want. The hardware is dumb and rigid by comparison.

you're partially right, tiger is really looking great and it's way good enough to make me not think about switching. but it takes a little more to make me shell out $3000. apple should have have announced minor upgrades a few months ago (i know it's not as easy as just announcing products). but the current product cycle makes me hope they just skipped the 'lets keep our customers happy until the real updates are ready' release.
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post #59 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Rolo
I'd like to wake up Tuesday morning and find no mention of new PMs on Apple's site. Why bother?

Why not put faster CPUs in the models if they have them? Should they just sit on them?

What if IBM has dumped the 1.8GHz model?
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post #60 of 186
How much is the dual 2Ghz going to be? $2000+ and I'll pass, 1600 -1800 and Apples got them selves a sale. I'm in no big hurry though, my new dual HP xw8200 3.6Ghz Xeon is friggen insane quick. I would still like to compliment it with a Powermac though, here's hoping Apple will be nice about their pricing this time around, pppssyeeaaah right.
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post #61 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Gamblor
If this really is the best we can expect from Apple at this point, I think it would be wise of them to drop the price by $100-$200 across the board... Maybe you'll be able to pick up that dual 2GHz for LESS than you were going to spend on the dual 1.8.

I don't think Apple really cares what we get and what price we pay, as long as they can CALL it new and improved. The fact that their pro desktops are about $700 over-priced and feature sub-standard video cards, a terrible lack of system expansion (excluding USB / FW devices) and that god-awful front panel mesh design which serves as a great second vacuum cleaner, doesn't even cross their minds...
I like Apple, and have used their machines for 20 years but this is frankly a little too disappointing!
post #62 of 186
i still have some hope that these rumours are not true. and if they are true, imagine what would happen if we found out these were overclocked G5 chips?
post #63 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Right now I'd rather see Express than a single dual core chip.

It's going to get harder to get boards for PCI X over the next year or so because of that. S-ATA 2 is also out now,

I don't know what Apple is waiting for. They can go to Express with a 2.7 chip. That WOULD be a big upgrade.

I rather think they are waiting for cards in their key markets. I have no knowledge of hollywood and audio PCI cards but how many have actually switched over to PCI-e?

I have no doubt they're watching the market and if they haven't upgraded I expect they have a pretty decent reason beyond being cheap. PCI-e does actually simplify board design and give them more freedom.
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post #64 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
I believe you'll get a Pioneer DVR-A09 16x, dual layer DVD burner. Which is not current BTW.

Actually it is current. This is exactly the point I've been making in the other threads!

The Rev. B machines have been shipping with the 109 mech for some time now, but Apple have crippled it via firmware.

This is good news in a sense, because it means that the 109 will finally be fully supported by the OS and anybody savvy enough will be able to reflash their drive and enjoy all the features... I'm looking forward to being able to burn a DVD in under four minutes!

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post #65 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Sorry hm. Tiger is what you want. I need the kind of performance, and upgradeability that Tiger, and a dual 2.7GHz Macintosh can't offer. Not from what the reports say anyway.

It all depends on what you're going to be using the machine for. What would you be using it for? What kind of performance and upgradeability are you looking for? From everything I've heard, the PowerMacs are the top of the line for the most intensive tasks. If you're looking for games, blame the software companies for not porting them.

I'm still trying to figure out what all the complaining is about. Soon you'll be offered faster hardware at the same (if not cheaper) price. [seinfeld] And what's the deal with this PCIe stuff?[/seinfeld] Every benchmark I've seen only shows a negligible difference between it and AGP. The only time it really shines is in synthetic benchmarks, which are just that, synthetic. Am I missing something here?
post #66 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Messiah
Actually it is current. This is exactly the point I've been making in the other threads!

The Rev. B machines have been shipping with the 109 mech for some time now, but Apple have crippled it via firmware.

This is good news in a sense, because it means that the 109 will finally be fully supported by the OS and anybody savvy enough will be able to reflash their drive and enjoy all the features... I'm looking forward to being able to burn a DVD in under four minutes!


I believe your thinking of the DVR A07 (which had a variant prototype dual layer burner) , and A08 (early version didn't burn dual). I don't think the A09 has made it into a Mac yet. #1 because it wasn't for sale yet when the 2.5's were announced.
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post #67 of 186
it seems to me that, again, it is not Apple's fault that the cpu clockspeed increases are staggering.

I can get all the rest of your frustrations w/ apple.
but don't blame them for a minor clock increase, it's simply not their fault.
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post #68 of 186
The only negatives I see are the lack of PCIe and the probably prices.

Let's see... CPU bumps, improved base graphics card, more standard RAM, larger standard HDD, a better optical drive, and Tiger... not bad, but without PCIe, they need a $200-300 price drop across the board. Even with PCIe, they may still need about a $200 price drop.
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post #69 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Gamblor
You do realize, of course, that that's precisely the type of "upgrade" car manufacturers do most often. They don't redesign the car from the ground up every year-- they make small changes most years & total redesigns every 5-6 years or so... This criticism & analogy is just... odd[...]

Different ball game with cars.
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post #70 of 186
It's incredibly unlikely that these systems will be any kind of quantum leap, however I'm now of the opinion that Apple will preview the so-called xStation at WWDC, making it available to developers within four weeks prior to more general availability for October 2005.

There is a precedent for this kind of behaviour in Apple's original G5 release in 2003, and it would allow developers an opportunity to create some dual-core/dual processor aware applications prior to the systems becoming generally available for review.
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post #71 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by bucci
And what's the deal with this PCIe stuff?[/seinfeld] Every benchmark I've seen only shows a negligible difference between it and AGP. The only time it really shines is in synthetic benchmarks, which are just that, synthetic. Am I missing something here?

Quartz 2D Extreme should bennefit greatly from PCI-E. But you're right, so far, there haven't been any real world tests which make PCI-E a must have for the masses.

I am one of those who believe that the pending update is a stop-gap measure while the true next generation powermac is still being developed. I'm thinking that PCI-E will debut on a completely new motherboard with a new CPU. Redesigning the current board while retaining an aging CPU isn't very economical for apple or it's customers... but hopefully i'm wrong.
post #72 of 186
Macrumors has a nice little oppsie by Amazon..

nevermind posted in another thread..
post #73 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by dfiler
Quartz 2D Extreme should bennefit greatly from PCI-E. But you're right, so far, there haven't been any real world tests which make PCI-E a must have for the masses.

BlackMagic's MultiBridge card is PCEe ONLY. And yes it is faster (which is why it's PCIe in the first place). Connecting to a G5 is an extra-cost option. If anyone here thinks PCIe won't become the new standard, maybe they would be interested in my IIci (still runs).

For those for whom the current update represents good value: In a year you'll be dumping it for a PCIe mobo. I frankly am amazed anyone would think ONCE about buying these machines. Oh well...
post #74 of 186
Anyone who falls for this obvious SUCKER'S CLEARANCE SALE
speed bump has my sympathy.

I'm still waiting to see what Apple means

by " Spotlight on Innovation " for WWDC.
post #75 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree
Anyone who falls for this obvious SUCKER'S CLEARANCE SALE
speed bump has my sympathy.

I'm still waiting to see what Apple means

by " Spotlight on Innovation " for WWDC.


I'm with you. I think that the real powermac revision will be at the Stevenote as the one more thing...
post #76 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave J
For those for whom the current update represents good value: In a year you'll be dumping it for a PCIe mobo. I frankly am amazed anyone would think ONCE about buying these machines. Oh well...



You must not be aware of the type of user who uses their computer as a money making tool. If a new G5 gets more video editing done each work day, then buying one now allows you to make more money now.
post #77 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree

I'm still waiting to see what Apple means

by " Spotlight on Innovation " for WWDC.

I dont' see nothing more than the obvious. What are you counting on?
post #78 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
I dont' see nothing more than the obvious. What are you counting on?

thats their catchline every year, isnt it?
post #79 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark- Card Carrying FanaticRealist
It's incredibly unlikely that these systems will be any kind of quantum leap, however I'm now of the opinion that Apple will preview the so-called xStation at WWDC, making it available to developers within four weeks prior to more general availability for October 2005.

There is a precedent for this kind of behaviour in Apple's original G5 release in 2003, and it would allow developers an opportunity to create some dual-core/dual processor aware applications prior to the systems becoming generally available for review.

Apple won't preview anything. That would be even worse for business than the paltry updates. If they do release something, it'll be at worst, 2 month delay in product shipment (or product announcement 2 months early).
post #80 of 186
Quote:
Originally posted by ineedag5pbnow
thats their catchline every year, isnt it?

Tiger is innovation and they are going to talk much about it and the technologies it brings to the table. And for good reason. If they release the next days new Power Macs, as it seems now, what else one could expect in WWDC? New eMacs?
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