Ok, you force me to destroy your position once and for all. Please address each point I make sensibly or I ,will be forced to hammer them home continually.
Originally posted by dmz
Sergovious, you deliberatly attempted to cite Bible passages-- that [in two cases] are allegroical, and are not used to promote violence -- in an apparent attempt to show how "violent" Christ-like behavior can be.
say they are allegorical - they may or may not be. I haven't said at all which I think they are so all your assumptions about my intent rest on nothing but that....assumptions. Which may or may not be correct. You don;t know. But you think you do.
Moving on to my rationale for posting them. They exist. They do not fit with Xian dogma so they are 'allegorical'. They may well be - but it is dishonest, dishonest and hypocritical to not consider that they may not.
I have not claimed the Qur'an passage you provide is allegorical (and I could justify it in at least 5 different ways if I chose to) but if I did then we would merely have a pissing contest. This subject is worth more than that and it is you who continually takes it there because of your refusal to look at things from differing angles. Not to accept - just look, that can't even happen. That's your choice and I respect it but let's not call it objective or talk about 'facts'.
As to violent 'Christ-like' behaviour, no-one with their eyes still unblinkered needs me to show that. A quick glance at random historical periods would do it and if that's not your bag try contemporary USA.
Then you attempted to insinuate a tolerance in Islam that is elusive at best. The reality today is that the Jizya, and other laws that fence in Christians are a very real, very sad reality.
I did not 'attempt' or 'insinuate'. I stated.
You are clearly not thinking or are ignorant of this topic. The jizya
tax was a tax on Christians living in Islamic society.
Perhaps you feel they should not be taxed but live free ? Should Muslims in the US today then have that same right ?
Or perhaps, you feel they should not have been in an Islamic society ? perhaps they should have been kicked out like the Christians did to the Jews ?
Unfortunately for you - in traditional Islam, historically, Jews and Christians lived in harmony with freedom of worship. Of course this ended when the Christians reclaimed Spain and there were wholesale slaughters but that's a different story.
Perhaps you are referring to Islam today - but then if so, you are displaying a foolishness on may levels. One, you did not say that: you clearly stated Islam as a religion was intolerant.
Perhaps then you did make a mistake and meant the situation in (say) Saudi - US ally #1. This is true, Christians are persecuted and there is no freedom of worship. But this contravenes the Qur'an and teaching of Muhammmad. No matter Saudis = Islam.
In fact, as it happens, I know for a fact that you are aware that the Wahabis are the persecutors of Christians and also that Wahabism is condemned by 95% of Islamic authorities throughout the world. So that makes me wonder about you some more...
But perhaps you meant Sudan ? Wahabis. Nigeria ? Wahabis ?
Possibly Syria or Turkey ? I have regularly attended Christian churches and services on countless occasions throughout both those countries so you'd be wrong there.
Iran ? Strong Christian population - Iraq also incidentally, but they are getting a bit p-ed off with being shot at and blown up though so perhaps they are not really Christians in the US sense.
But as I say, there is very little need for me to waste time on this. Every informed and knowledgeable person regarding this issue knows that Christians, jews and Muslims lived in harmony for 800 years and were responsible for much of the roots of European advancement.
You can believe what you like but if you wish to ignore facts, and it seems you do, there is very little point being on a board such as this, I can recommend some Islam un-friendly ones if you like. I've heard they're out there. But I guess you know that.
I really, really don't, get it. The sign on the forum said "factually informed" discussion. This type of sly chisling, whether it's this forum, or some myopic, paraniod, rant on Halliburton is foolishness. You guys make mountians out of molehills but ignore what is right in front of your face. Islam has serious xenophobic issues, it has serious issues with primitivism, etc. and I have to read this horse hockey about "take two swords."
It says 'take two swords'. That's what it says. I didn't write it. There must be a reason for it and if you have one I'm very interested. 'Allegorical' just won't cut it I'm afraid or if it does I'm going to have to start claiming that terrorists wanting to gain bombs is 'allegorical' and we'll be pissing in the wind again.
What rot. General Electric, has nearly a billion dollars of fines, endless ligitagation with the government of it's contracts, and massive media and political connections, but Halliburton is the great evil we face today -- and it's all done with a straight face in the name of "integrity". What absolute childishness.
I think you are gaining in integrity which is good. Your 'reasonable' mask has been checked at the door on this one and we can see something slightly less.....well. less.
This is progress. Islamophobia is never pleasant seeing the truth is good.
This isn't a discussion, this a cheap shilling contest.
Well it shouldn't be. Please start discussing.