Is the US trying to insult Islam? - Page 3

Hell, sometimes I'll desecrate two or three copies of the Koran a day if I'm not paying attention.

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Don't you realize that is only hurts you to lie over and over and over again? [/B][/QUOTE] How reliable is the source?

He either lied in the beginning, or made stuff up, or now he is lying and making stuff up. Which is it?

The general quoted before, says there is no record that any incident like this ever occurred.

So until it is proven that wrongdoing was done, the military is innocent of the charges of Quran flushing, Get it?

<sigh...> I am sure that my choice of breakfast, sock color and my very existence are insults to Islam... maybe I and all my fellow citizens should go outside and chop off our own heads with scimitars to make the Muslims (and Europeans) happy.

I am starting to find myself exhausted by the Muslim world. Despite who is in the White House, I love my country. When these assholes are burning my flag in the streets and advocating holy war against me and calling for my outright destruction... it just makes me hold my head in exhaustion and say "f*uck off". I really don't care anymore. I have better things to do in life thean worry about who I "insult".

The soldiers who may or may not have vandalized that book, the reporter who may or may not have made it all up, and all the Muslims who may or may not be insulted, can all kiss my ass. I am done caring about the right and wrong of any of it. I like living my life and anyone who is trying to interefere with it - be it George W. Bush and the neocons or John Q. Arab and his Jihadis - is a bad person in my book.

Little Nappy. The quote has been there since yesterday. I knew you wouldn't address it because the information provided by the General would make you look like a gullible fool.

By the way, Gen. Myers wasn't "just one guy". He cited the commander in charge of the troops in Afghanistan, where to quote you, "people have died as a direct result of faulty reporting." So that makes two. And they should know better than you and the people who write the stuff you get your info. from.
Well little Nappy. The article doesn't make my position stronger. It basically shatters to pieces your winger-blog based assertions that the people died in Afghanistan as a "direct result of faulty reporting".

Then you go on to quote stories- written BEFORE Gen. Myers addressed reporters on the 12th -that the violence occurred because of Newsweek. lol

Of course the military that you from way out of left field and in one of your wacky moments accused me of politicizing, have obviously dismissed those claims. However, since it's convenient to you, you have dismissed the Chairman of the JCOS and the ground Commander of the Allied troops in Afghanistan, and decided to side with outdated articles. Your hypocrisy knows no boundaries does it?
You mean two generals....including the commander of the Combined Forces in Afghanistan. RIGHT. Of course they're wrong....and you're right.

There you have it folks. According to Naples, half of the US population and the majority of the "US Press" have already adopted the philosophy of radical islamists. Brilliant.

I don't think that it is 50%, but I agree with Naples that a good many people inside the US and out hate the US just out of principal. Maybe 10% of the US population, including the entire faculty of Columbia university, is like this.

Well, you said it, not me. What I said was they have adopted a "blame America" (first) philosophy. You have brought up a neat little coinci-dinky though:

By adopting that philosophy they just so happen to make themselves allies with radical islam. Just as in this case where the media has engaged in a frenzied race to find "dirt" to throw at Bush and the military he leads, they (the media) have lost sight of the extremely negative effects such efforts may have. Believe you me, this incident and the hype by the media will be used for years to recruit people to target all of our friends and families.

But let's get beyond this and I will ask you a question with a preface:

We are in Iraq. We are at war on different fronts. This we can do nothing about. Even if you disagree with the reasons for the war, the war is currently being waged. Let me repeat - WE ARE AT WAR.

Why do American journalists feel the need to hand propaganda and psychological victories to the enemy?

Even if a guy made a mistake or stepped outside the rules, why hurt the efforts of your own country in wartime?

If someone could explain the upside to this to me, it would be nice. I just don't see it.

Indeed, I much prefer your alternative of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling LALALALALALAICAN'THEARYOUAMERICAISTHECOOLEST!!.


Ooh! This is fun! Let's see: pick one...by adopting your position, you are an opponent of either truth or justice. Which of those is it that you don't like, Naples?


Yup. I agree. It will be used MUCH more than invading two countries in the Middle East. Why do you hate seeing things in proportion, Naples? Is it because you hate freedom of the press?


I ask again: why is it that you hate freedom of the press, Naples?


This is more of your LALALALAism. Why do you hate the truth, Naples?

Man. That's fun and easy. Why the hell can't the democrats do that?

Cheers

They don't need to find dirt on him. Considering how much shit there is out there on all "fronts", the media has actually reported very little of it.
Yeah, cause an unnecessary war that has killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians wasn't enough. Because Abu Ghraib wasn't enough. Fallujah wasn't enough. Your total lack of perception and common sense would be alarming if....I'll just leave it at that.
Right. It's a good thing that the "enemy" doesn't have access to the internet, worldwide satellite tv, worldwide satellite radio, worldwide newspapers.......
Next thing we know the wingers will be pushing for worldwide censorship.

Wowsers! This is a juicy thread. Excellent.

Just to get back to Fellowship's original question. Yes, we as a country have in the past, are now, and will continue to do in the immediate future; "insult" Islam. Just the way it is.

Taking into consideration only our troops for now, the insult is being done for the MOST part, unintentionally. That is, out of ignorance of the world outside of the USA. Our public educational system is as myopic as any other western nation's on the planet. Maybe more in certain ways. That's a big thread all on it's own. My point being that the military doesn't have time or the resources to teach "sensitivity" to the ground pounders. Except in the most superficial way.

Hell, the troops that are there now for the most part didn't even receive any kind of "urban ops" training as the FOOLS that sent them into harms way did not forsee the mess that is Iraq. In other words, PISS poor planning based on LIES. Never ever, let "we know what's best for the world..." chicken-hawks plan a blood and guts war. You will regret it. That is exactly what has happened here.

Again, as a country, the US has left itself open to justifiably harsh criticism. Think about this for just a second all of you Bush supporters, instead of destroying one of Saddam's icon's of terror over his countrymen (Abu Gharib Prison), WE made use of it! What were we thinking? Obviously, the people in charge could give a rats ass... As PHONY and PR-driven as the act may have been, destroying that house of torture to the ground would have been a PR coup. Instead, we have undoubtedly, PATRIOTIC Americans going to jail for the abuses they visited on their charges. Not to excuse what they did, but they ARE scape-goats for the higher ups.

Even if I considered this a "justifiable" war, which I do not, you NEVER give your enemy an added incentive to fight you to the death. Specially when they are "religious-fanatacism" driven. You know, kind of like some our own leaders...

Man, the topic gets my blood hot, but I gotta go to sleep...

Then why, pray tell, would they (the media and Newsweek in particular) blindly regurgitate and/or write these extremely harmful things? If, as you say, there are baotloads of "dirt" on bush and the military he leads, why make stuff up? It has only hurt their reputation and bolstered the idea of a liberal biased media.


Um, hello!? They do, and that is exactly why Newsweek made a huge blunder. Self control and a little forward thinking is in order for the news outlets. That would help to significantly reduce problems like this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/in...gewanted=print

"At the Pentagon today, the Defense Department spokesman Lawrence DiRita said the Newsweek report, and the unrest that followed it, showed the damage that could be done by inaccurate reporting involving sensitive subjects. "We're in a world in which public opinion can be altered quickly in an era of 24/7 news coverage," he said.

And Mr. DiRita said he had no doubts about the damage the magazine had wrought, however inadvertently.

"Do you now believe that people died because of this erroneous report?" Mr. DiRita was asked.

"I do," he replied. "I absolutely do.""

This seems to be accepted by just about everyone at this point. Rueters, AP and most others are reporting the rioting was caused by the Newsweek article. And the fact the riots started the vary next day after the article tend to support the theory, don't you think?

This little dust up in Afghanistan is nothing. Remember that time we invaded Iraq and the press didn't really follow up on anything and the WaPo admitted that it hadn't really been all that critical in its reporting? Oops!

jesus, naples, you just quoted my post and responded with something unrelated. What is going on with you? Can't you at least try to make your posts coherent?

What's wrong with you? Did you read the link? I forgot, you don't do that. Sorry.

I was hoping you would load the brain before firing off at the mouth. I know that's not your style, but one can always hope, no?

WTF does it have to do with your lie that the reporter 'fabricated' the story other than this passage that again points out your lie?

Just because the moderators ignore your nonstop bullshit and inane, incoherent posting doesn't mean it's acceptable behavior.

Stay on topic in a reasonable tone or stop posting. Both of you. Now.

Let's walk through this carefully:

The story was based on 1 (one) source, a big no-no for credible journalists - an unnamed supposed government official. Technically that could be the secretary or it could have been Ted Kennedy, no-one knows except Michael Izakov (sp?), who it just so happens to have seemingly disappeared. But don't take my word for it. Read this article:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._newsed18.html

Thusly the story was questionable at best, and should have never been printed. Izzy knows better, and so do the editors.

The story was "fabricated" because it was pushed off as legit and credible.

Sure, so what does that have to do with this?

The sad fact that you "progressives" just don't get is: (drum-roll)

Radical muslims are offended that we (the US, the UK and any other non-muslim country) even exist. They seek a worldwide islamic state. That's not to mention our "unholy" alliance with Israel.

Level headed people of all creeds and religions, don't riot every-time they are offended. Radicals muslims do. Muslims in general are not declaring war on the US. Radicals muslims are. Religious people from around the world are not killing and beheading innocent bystanders who are the same religion and fellow countrymen. Radical muslims are.

Perhaps you see a little pattern there, no? Well I do. But take a step back even farther and see who is consistently running to the aid and comfort of radical muslims. Even though you don't see a ton of condemnation from the Islamic world community, you don't see them defending the radicals, either. So it's not peace loving muslims. It's one particular group, relatively small and also driven by irrational hatred. Give up?

This thread is a perfect example. People here are all worried that the US government (in particular, the current admin) is out to offend the world Islamic community. Meanwhile, the very same thing is being done by the "independent" press. Not one of you, except maybe hardhead, has even come close to expressing condemnation. We have witnessed every angle for justification for it. Of course, if you did actually condemn the Newsweek article, that would put you in direct alignment with The White House and it's occupants. Shudder at the thought.

Being blinded by contempt can also blind you to reason, my friend.

Note to self: do not waste valuable time - we are here but a short while and summer's lease has all too short a span.

Uhh....carry on.......

Why make stuff up? I agree. We should leave that to the Bush administration.
By the way, I'm getting tired of you making up shit about my posts. First you accuse me of "politicizing" the military which I'm still waiting on for you to quote where I did that.....and now you're claiming that I included the military when I said there's a lot of shit on Bush out there the media isn't reporting on. Here is what I said...not that you didn't know: "hey don't need to find dirt on him. Considering how much shit there is out there on all "fronts", the media has actually reported very little of it."
Here's a new word for you since you obviously didn't get my sarcasm

This is just too funny.

I'll be nice and explain it. The "enemy" is not sitting there waiting for Newsweek, or the Washington Times to write stuff they can use against us because there are so many other sources out there, including satellite TV, radio, internet, newspapers, magazines , from around the world that already report enough material for that if that were the case. Heck, they need only listen to Fox ("the shi'ite has hit the fan") and Limbaugh and the idiots that call his show to hate us.

Of course, the irony of this is how you're being a trooper for the winger machine's "movement" to what amounts to censoring news outlets while ignoring two wars, torture and destruction. It shouldn't really be new to you. The islamists who hate us, probably couldn't hate us anymore after Iraq, Abu Ghraib and Fallujah.

Exactly. That's why they don't need little articles from Newsweek or anyone to hate us.

They need those articles to justify and bolster their POV. Let's not pretend.

Don't be ridiculous. They only need to see what's happening in Iraq if they need any motivation.

Why not? You've been doing it all thread.

Bolster their pov to who ? Other Muslims or Westerners ?

And 'who' needs it ? Al Qaeda ? Can't be them because they don't exist. The Iraqi insurgents ? Like they give a toss - many are not Muslims - practically all are Iraqis first and they have enough to focus on setting explosives and the like.

So who exactly ?

I think there is only a product of your imagination that needs it. Desperately.

Radical this, radical that,

I see a pattern too,

They and you are the same,

Same people, different circumstances.

I want some of whatever you are on.

Try stopping taking whatever your're on - that might have the same effect

It's called reality. I wouldn't expect you to know much about it.

oh this is getting nasty, as I am a temporary mod for a bit, I'd suggest you stop bickering before I ban your asses for a week.

I don't want you to think I am ignoring or avoiding the rest of your post by me not replying to it, but I feel it is just quibbling and petty arguments, that we can really avoid. Not only that, it just clouds the issues.


I want you to realize that in just about every post, you resort to trying to tie me to the republican party or to Bush, rather than address the points or in addition to. Once again just muddying the water. This is what causes unneeded friction. If in your mind I am a cheerleader for the republican party or for Bush, fine. I think everyone knows where you stand. Let's just focus on ideas for a bit, could we.


They hated us long before those things. You would be hard pressed to convince me if only for Bush, their would be flowers and peace throughout Oz. It's just not realistic.

Not siding with the terrorists, but why have they hated us for so long?

Until we admit the problem, there is no cure.

I'm sorry, I forgot you don't like Bush and you're not a Republican. My bad. Of course, I'm off base. Not like you have ever made wacky pro Bush claims like he's gonna win the Nobel peace prize for his Iraq adventure or something.
The master of muddying the waters is accusing me of muddying the waters. I remember it's been posted before how you work. You're doing it to a T. Here's two things. Before playing the victim...as you always do when you run out of "theories", why don't you stop making stuff up which you can't prove I said , like politicizing the military or saying that there are "boatloads of dirt on Bush and the military he leads"? AGAIN, third time....quote me. Quote me.
This is just hilarious. You're proving my point even further. Here's it in one sentence...again: the people who hate us don't need little BS articles to do so.

I've wasted too much time on this only for you to end up siding with me and proving my point. Too funny.

Let's get back on-topic with some hard facts and clear up the confusion that some of us here seems to be obsuring some of our esteemed members analytical thought processes:

It is irrelevant that Newsweek either printed or retracted the story. The incidents have been repeated over several years and are clearly documented in numerous places.

In March 05 Fawzi al Odah, Fouad al Rabiah, and Khalid al Mutairi (all Guantanamo prisoners) each individually claimed to have witness desecration of the Qur'an - in several cases by the toilet procedure.

In January a seperate report of Qur'an flushing emerged from detainees in Kuwait: link.


There is also abundant evidence of Qur'an flushing in Afghanistan

Another seperate report - this time involving Qur'ans and toilet buckets as opposed to toilet flushing.

It seems clear that the practice is official policy and occurs by command or instruction at all US detention camps: Guantanamo, Kuwait and Afghanistan prisons have all reported numerous occurrences of the same phenomena.

What is more likely - that there is an efficient underground network that can get word to prisoners in high security jails (often in solitary confinement) instructing them to lie (in violation of their religion) about desecration of their most Holy symbol (again in violation of their religion) in order to further purposes unknown that make sense to no-one - or that Newsweek's source was in fact reporting incidents that occurred (and are widepsread policy) and were subsequently silenced and ordered to retract by a diktat from the Reichsbureau propaganda management department ?

Let me get his straight. You are incredibly concerned about apparently shoddy journalism at Newsweek and how it led to some riots and a few deaths, and you don't see the connection I'm making between that and the ADMITTEDLY shoddy journalism leading up to the invasion of Iraq?

Good lord, man.

Turns out Newsweek was right

Read it and no they weren't. This article brings up nothing but allegations.

Allegation does not a fact make.

Since all religions are completely idiotic, how could anyone insult a religion?

The question should be why are religions insulting my intelligence?

I wouldn't worry about it.

Trust me, I guarantee you your intelligence will not be altered by contact with religion in any way whatsoever.