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Star Wars Episode 3 - Page 2

post #41 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
that's sacrilege !!!!!! that's almost as bad as han shooting second.

NO KIDDING!!! Check out the end of ROTJ and check it out for yourself! I about crapped my pants. I am glad I have the VHS Tapes!!
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post #42 of 225
For me, My qualm was that the love story was a little rough, and I half-liked how everything was explained in the universe. I was a little uncertain about the movie, but once the Jedi started to be killed off, it took a turn for the better. It was a much better movie after the child slaughtering. The end, when they transitioned to Episode 4, was very good, although I think the all of a sudden "Hey, everyone on the Star Destroyers looks like they are in 70's clothes and the ships have all the old buttons."

I loved seeing all the old stuff in a new digital manor, the 70's ships and clothes, though. It was weird to see all the images from 4,5,6 and seeing those connections gave me an unsettling feeling. I think that was Lucas' goal, to give people an uneasy feeling and he succeded. It was sad to see Padmé die, although we knew from the beginning it was going to happen. It was sad to see Anakin go over to the dark side. And it was incredibly weird and made everyone want to watch 4,5,6 when the end came. It was the connection between Anankin and Luke. Overall, I liked the movie.

I don't know how the movie should be viewed in the future, in what order. I mean, we have all experienced the movies in 4,5,6 and then 1,2,3. But I would be interested in seeing how the trilogy would be viewed in the order of 1,2,3,4,5,6.

Also, why can't people spell fucking correctly?
post #43 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by Nebagakid
Also, why can't people spell fucking correctly?

I can spell that! The character names are tricky because no-one's seen them spelt. I think most of mine were right but be tolerant!
post #44 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
I can spell that! The character names are tricky because no-one's seen them spelt. I think most of mine were right but be tolerant!

No I didn't mean poor spelling, the character names are hard to spell. I was trying to point out people writing "f8cking" instead. It is not any mystery was the word is, why don't people just write it with the proper letters and not try to sugar coat it?

Also, I guess if you are trying to make a whole fleet of star ships in no time flat, you have to go with 1970's buttons instead of 2000's LCD displays...
post #45 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
[B]Lucas has said Star Wars is made up of 9 complete stories.

ONCE. Maybe twice. In 1980. Ever since then, it's been six movies. It's the story of Darth Vader. With Vader dead, the story is pointless to continue.

Quote:
"Heir to the Empire" by Tim Z., starts 5 years after ROTJ and is a part of a 3 book trilogy. Although Lucas would never do Zaughn's books as movies, it would be nice if he did.

Zahn's books don't stand up after the prequels. A lot of his "facts" are wrong, and conflict with estabished film continuity.
post #46 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
NO KIDDING!!! Check out the end of ROTJ and check it out for yourself! I about crapped my pants. I am glad I have the VHS Tapes!!

fucking hell (there nebagakid you happy ??!!?) that is so wrong. it doesn't make sense. the 'sprits' at the end of the ROTJ are yoda, OLD obiwan and obviously it follows OLD Anakin, not HC Anakin ???? what an utterly pointless waste of special effects money ~ what a bloody cheap Lucas trick to link the old movies with the new ones by cutting and pasting young Anakin in there....

*sigh*
if my dad's old Laserdisc player still worked.... and if i had the star wars ep. 4,5,6, laserdiscs, untouched by Lucas' digital molestations...
post #47 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by Nebagakid
.......

Also, I guess if you are trying to make a whole fleet of star ships in no time flat, you have to go with 1970's buttons instead of 2000's LCD displays...

i know what your saying... but i like the transition from a more diverse, "democratic", elegant, Old Republic, to a brutal, ruthless, utilitarian Empire...

remember that the 70s were a time of free love and freedom and anti-vietnam and all that ... but also a time when modernist, futurist, blocky buildings were all the rage in architecture... umm we'll that's all the art history i remember, so..... \
post #48 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
fucking hell (there nebagakid you happy ??!!?) that is so wrong. it doesn't make sense. the 'sprits' at the end of the ROTJ are yoda, OLD obiwan and obviously it follows OLD Anakin, not HC Anakin ???? what an utterly pointless waste of special effects money ~ what a bloody cheap Lucas trick to link the old movies with the new ones by cutting and pasting young Anakin in there....

Actually, for the first time in seven years, I am actually happy. I think, according to the whole line at the end of III, it makes no sense for any of them to be there and for Luke to be able to see them. Luke should have to do some training to see them, I thought.

Either way, it just shows how Lucas can do whatever he wants now. IF he wanted, he could digitally isolate every object in that movie, and redo the whole thing with the same actors but different backgrounds.... that would be incredible.
post #49 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by Fireball1244

Zahn's books don't stand up after the prequels. A lot of his "facts" are wrong, and conflict with estabished film continuity.

You could argue that Lucas conflicted with continuity in EP 1 a lot.

Zahn's books are good reads for sure, and would make great movies with some polishing. I never liked how he used 'kilometers as a unit of distance in the books.

9 stories, you gotta believe man!! it is not pointless!! Plus, he won't do it because he is getting to old.
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post #50 of 225
The image a Jedi would project would be entirely arbitrary. It would be up to a Jedi himself to choose what appearance they give off in that spirit form.

It makes sense to see old Yoda and Obi Wan, since they were always "good".

I could see and argue that Anakin might want to show himself as he looked pre-Vader. The only bad part to me is it wrecks that arc of the character, that even post-bcoming Vader, the true Anakin was a good person, who did bring balance to the force and did destroy the emperor and the Empire.

Him being an old man trapped in a prison of his own making but giving hope to his son made the old man image more compelling.

But I can 'spin' the argument that Anakin wanted to show himself as he was pre-Dark Side.

It's not the same caliber of tragedy as Han shooting second.
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post #51 of 225
My notes:

Got a real grin and slight tear from Chewie helping to protect Yoda. Doesn't get better than that. Cuter than a puppy licking a kitten.

Okay. Anakin really is the best pilot in the galaxy.

Buddhism galore! Okay, they fuck it up a bit, but not bad. I'll be happy if it helps people look into Buddhism in earnest.

Frankenstein part. Well, we knew it was coming. His stiffness is acceptable considering he's walking for the first time. Wasn't quite the Orson Wells room destroying rampage I was hoping for though.

Nowhere near enough of post-mask Vader. Oh well. I was hoping for a 5 minute montage of the spread of the empire.

I like the Tie fighter cockpit for Anakin's fighter.

Obi-Wan truly is Gandalf-like, in a good way.

Luke's saber: "Your father wanted you to have this" MY ASS. More like "I stole this from your dad after I cut his arm and legs off and left him to burn to death." JESUS.
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post #52 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
My notes:
Luke's saber: "Your father wanted you to have this" MY ASS. More like "I stole this from your dad after I cut his arm and legs off and left him to burn to death." JESUS.

hahahahahahahahahaha yeah, that was a bit of a stretch or just plain missed during many of GL's digital edits.
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post #53 of 225
I haven't seen ep3 yet, but one thing I'm finding lame is this:

That stupid ass Midichlorian thing from ep1.

If Anakin is getting all hacked to bits, and the amount of scabies or whatever in your blood determines your force power, how does he get more badass as he loses actual body mass?

/me is perplexed.

I would fully support Lucas completely canning ep 1 & 2 and reshooting them to be proper movies.
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post #54 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
I haven't seen ep3 yet, but one thing I'm finding lame is this:

That stupid ass Midichlorian thing from ep1.

If Anakin is getting all hacked to bits, and the amount of scabies or whatever in your blood determines your force power, how does he get more badass as he loses actual body mass?

/me is perplexed.

I would fully support Lucas completely canning ep 1 & 2 and reshooting them to be proper movies.


This has long been argued on the fan sites but basically body mass doesn't matter.

Otherwise a Jedi could just sit around eating Twinkies all day and get more powerful the closer they get to Jabba size.

Midi-chlorian count is counted on a per-cell basis. Midi-chlorian "concentration" is key, not "total". You might have 27,000 Midi-chlorians per cell if you are Vader and 17,000 if you are Yoda.

But size matters not.

And by the way, Midi-chlorians is not a cop-out. It only adds realism to the otherwise mystical/magical-only Force. In real life, "mitochondria" and "chloroplast" fulfill the same role essentially. Throw in some Buddhism, and you are as close to the Force as you can get in this galaxy.

(Read "The Quantum and the Lotus" and "Being Dharma"...highly recommended.)
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post #55 of 225
Well size does matter in that the bigger you are the more blood actually exists in your body. In addition, when your legs get hacked off you lose a signifacant amount of cell producing bone marrow.

But I reeeeeeeeally don't want to get into a technicality laden nerdwar so I'll accept your explanation with a smile.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

I wish developing great products was as easy as writing a check. If that were the case, then Microsoft would...
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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

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post #56 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
I would fully support Lucas completely canning ep 1 & 2 and reshooting them to be proper movies.

Dude, that would be soooo cool.
post #57 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
Well size does matter in that the bigger you are the more blood actually exists in your body. In addition, when your legs get hacked off you lose a signifacant amount of cell producing bone marrow.

But I reeeeeeeeally don't want to get into a technicality laden nerdwar so I'll accept your explanation with a smile.

Sure. But note that concentration and volume are not the same thing.

"Midichlorian count" isn't cumulative. It's importance is per-cell only.

It's like each cell has an energy potential or strength. What is it's limit per cell.

Each cell has a strength or Force potential (whatever you want to call it) of "x".

You don't then add up the number of cells. That is irrelevant.

No nerdwar, just shootin' the shit with fellow Star Wars geeks on an Apple rumor Forum. AND I have a girlfriend.
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post #58 of 225
I would love to belive Lucas put that much thought into it, but I'm inclined to believe the real secret is that your force potential is only limited by the power of the CGI rendering machines.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

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post #59 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
I would love to belive Lucas put that much thought into it, but I'm inclined to believe the real secret is that your force potential is only limited by the power of the CGI rendering machines.

There's no doubt that Lucas didn't bother with any of the more esoteric details in the original trilogy, they were too busy having fun and blowing things up.

But in keeping with Joseph Campbell's influences (he was a deep admirer of Buddhism in particular) it's not likely that he "just made this up one afternoon" during writing (if I can call it that) Phantom Menace. I'm sure he had a sketch of how he wanted a contemplative kind of Buddhism-lite for the Jedi, mixed with a tangible acknowledgment of the physical properties that do indeed make up life.

The world has gotten smarter about DNA/quantum physics etc. since the original trilogy, and adding this reference is only a nod to how the Force isn't merely abstract hocus pocus, but it has physical manifestations/implications, in the same way that Buddhism (for example) doesn't deny the physical (it's not mere nihilism) so much as it teaches you to reach beyond preconceptions to get closer to the true nature of things as they are, through first hand experience and investigation.

Lucas is eternally indebted to Tolkein, Campbell, Kurosawa (Peace Be Upon Them). Lucas did his homework on the myth stuff, I can't believe he just plopped the midi-chlorian thing in nilly-willy. It does strike a blow against this being a pure fantasy and makes it more science fiction-ish. But really there should be a balance between the physical and metaphysical. Otherwise it's just pure Fantasy with a capital EFF and we wouldn't need the spaceships.
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post #60 of 225
fenominal movie... few slow parts, but it picked back up... the fight between anikan and obi-wan was fenominal... one of the best light saber fights i've seen... it has my liking...
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post #61 of 225
Qui-gon/Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul still is my favorite. Just really tightly done and powerful.
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post #62 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
There's no doubt that Lucas didn't bother with any of the more esoteric details in the original trilogy, they were too busy having fun and blowing things up.

But in keeping with Joseph Campbell's influences (he was a deep admirer of Buddhism in particular) it's not likely that he "just made this up one afternoon" during writing (if I can call it that) Phantom Menace. I'm sure he had a sketch of how he wanted a contemplative kind of Buddhism-lite for the Jedi, mixed with a tangible acknowledgment of the physical properties that do indeed make up life.

The world has gotten smarter about DNA/quantum physics etc. since the original trilogy, and adding this reference is only a nod to how the Force isn't merely abstract hocus pocus, but it has physical manifestations/implications, in the same way that Buddhism (for example) doesn't deny the physical (it's not mere nihilism) so much as it teaches you to reach beyond preconceptions to get closer to the true nature of things as they are, through first hand experience and investigation.

Lucas is eternally indebted to Tolkein, Campbell, Kurosawa (Peace Be Upon Them). Lucas did his homework on the myth stuff, I can't believe he just plopped the midi-chlorian thing in nilly-willy. It does strike a blow against this being a pure fantasy and makes it more science fiction-ish. But really there should be a balance between the physical and metaphysical. Otherwise it's just pure Fantasy with a capital EFF and we wouldn't need the spaceships.

eh... my exposure to hinduism/buddhism must be off on a different (wrong?) tangent... because i've only been exposed to the more metaphysical aspects of those, not much physical tie in.

i thought also it's weird that there are this midicholrians that actually "control" us in some way, risking idolising the midicholrians as god or something??

\ i have a cold now *sniffle* so brain not in gear, ignore the above if you like
post #63 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
fucking hell (there nebagakid you happy ??!!?) that is so wrong. it doesn't make sense. the 'sprits' at the end of the ROTJ are yoda, OLD obiwan and obviously it follows OLD Anakin, not HC Anakin ???? what an utterly pointless waste of special effects money ~ what a bloody cheap Lucas trick to link the old movies with the new ones by cutting and pasting young Anakin in there....

*sigh*
if my dad's old Laserdisc player still worked.... and if i had the star wars ep. 4,5,6, laserdiscs, untouched by Lucas' digital molestations...

sorry I'm confused - where do you see old hologram Anakin?
post #64 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
sorry I'm confused - where do you see old hologram Anakin?

At the end of ROTJ in pre EP 1, 2 and 3 days, Luke sees yoda, Obi-Wan, and then the old anakin shows up.

Now, Hayden C. shows up and the old Anakin is no more.
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post #65 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
At the end of ROTJ in pre EP 1, 2 and 3 days, Luke sees yoda, Obi-Wan, and then the old anakin shows up.

Now, Hayden C. shows up and the old Anakin is no more.

I don't remember that.
post #66 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
I don't remember that.

Well, then it obviously didn't really happen.
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post #67 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Well, then it obviously didn't really happen.

it didn't in my copy! when did this actually happen - after Vader dies?
post #68 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
it didn't in my copy! when did this actually happen - after Vader dies?

At the Ewok ceremony, after Luke has burned Vader alone and returns to the party, he sees Ben, Yoda and old Anakin's spirits.

Perhaps the fullscreen version doesn't show all of the picture? </guessing>
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post #69 of 225
would this be in return of the jedi? after vadar dies, he returns to the good side?
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post #70 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by ragingloogie
would this be in return of the jedi? after vadar dies, he returns to the good side?

Sorta. More like, the 'good in him' was awakened when he sees luke about to kill him, and he recognizes that luke is on the verge of turning to the dark side, and he sees luke refuse. Then he kills palpatine to redeem himself. More or less, it can be made more convoluted or less convoluted if you want. heh.
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post #71 of 225
Right, in Jedi, Anakin kills the Emperor and brings balance to the force. Luke was a helpful distraction, to tempt the Emperor to think Luke would make a good replacement for Vader as the Emperor's new apprentice. (Remember, this was Vader offering that in Empire). This let Vader get Luke as close to the Emperor as possible. Vader knew Luke was good and powerful and would not kill his own father. This let Vader kill the Emperor himself when he was weakened/distracted.

The prophecy was right, it just took a while to happen.

It was my theory for years that Vader was actually good throughout the old trilogy. He killed plenty of fellow Imperials, and only a few odd rebels in the heat of battle (had to maintain a credible image for the Emperor).
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post #72 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
Right, in Jedi, Anakin kills the Emperor and brings balance to the force. Luke was a helpful distraction, to tempt the Emperor to think Luke would make a good replacement for Vader as the Emperor's new apprentice. (Remember, this was Vader offering that in Empire). This let Vader get Luke as close to the Emperor as possible. Vader knew Luke was good and powerful and would not kill his own father. This let Vader kill the Emperor himself when he was weakened/distracted.

The prophecy was right, it just took a while to happen.

It was my theory for years that Vader was actually good throughout the old trilogy. He killed plenty of fellow Imperials, and only a few odd rebels in the heat of battle (had to maintain a credible image for the Emperor).

I'm going to have to diagree with that. Blowing up an entire planet (Alderan) is a bit more than maintaining a credible image.

Overall I thought the movie was very well done. The dialogue was a bit "meh", it never seemed to flow. It was as if everyone had their own thoughts, and just would say what they wanted, never replying to the previous comment. But the aciton scenes were spectacular. Artoo kicked much robotic ass. Also, I beleive it is in RoTJ, Leia speaks of her mother looked beautiful but sad. I always thought she spoke of Padme, but she was obviously speaking of her adopted parents. But I think old Georgie boy did a pretty good job with this one.

But one more thing. The whole Qui Gon Jin thing. If he learned how to become one with the force and communicate after death, howcome his body didn't dissolve upon his death?
post #73 of 225
well if 1 and 2 were so crappy what do you all suggest should be changed in them? I think they are pretty good and they all lead up to episode 3 nicely. they are essentially the beginning of the whole thing and have to get some explaining out of the way so you can get the whole idea.
post #74 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
At the Ewok ceremony, after Luke has burned Vader alone and returns to the party, he sees Ben, Yoda and old Anakin's spirits.

Perhaps the fullscreen version doesn't show all of the picture? </guessing>

OK - how was one supposed to know that was Vader - we never see his face! I think it's good to change it to HC
post #75 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
OK - how was one supposed to know that was Vader - we never see his face! I think it's good to change it to HC

You see his face when Luke takes his helmet off after killing the Emperor.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

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post #76 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
You see his face when Luke takes his helmet off after killing the Emperor.

I think it's subtle so the SW geeks can be proud because it's pretty messed up!
post #77 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
You see his face when Luke takes his helmet off after killing the Emperor.

And not only do you see his face, George Lucas REMOVED HIS EYEBROWS on the DVD's! Where does it end. He had Vader's eyebrows removed because he was burned badly in EP3.
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post #78 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
And not only do you see his face, George Lucas REMOVED HIS EYEBROWS on the DVD's! Where does it end. He had Vader's eyebrows removed because he was burned badly in EP3.

oh man... over the next 10 years the nerds are all going to have a field day keeping track of what details were changed where...

.......
post #79 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
Right, in Jedi, Anakin kills the Emperor and brings balance to the force. Luke was a helpful distraction, to tempt the Emperor to think Luke would make a good replacement for Vader as the Emperor's new apprentice. (Remember, this was Vader offering that in Empire). This let Vader get Luke as close to the Emperor as possible. Vader knew Luke was good and powerful and would not kill his own father. This let Vader kill the Emperor himself when he was weakened/distracted.

The prophecy was right, it just took a while to happen.

It was my theory for years that Vader was actually good throughout the old trilogy. He killed plenty of fellow Imperials, and only a few odd rebels in the heat of battle (had to maintain a credible image for the Emperor).

i agree with you that now i realise how the prophecy was fulfilled. as the old republic crumbled, the dark side grew very very strong with palpatine... his 20+ year manipulations (not counting his apprenticeship to the dark side and killing of his master) made the force imbalanced.

edit: only Yoda and ObiWan really sensed this, so well and good that they were the only Jedi that 'survived' in the time of the Empire. the rest of the Jedi were clueless and deserved what they got

edit: well it was a long time of dark side imbalance, with him dismantling the old republic over 20+years, the 20+ year rule of the Empire, etc..

yup, it took a while, anakin had to go over to the dark side, then eventually kill the emperor in return of the jedi, and balance is restored to the force. prophecy fulfilled, just that obiwan and yoda gave up on the prophecy a little early (just like morpheus in the matrix, but keanu.. er i mean Neo eventually delivered the goods)

i think Vader did not do this in a very conscious way, eg. blowing up a whole planet... the thing is though that he had to journey through the darkness to see the light and restore balance (this parallels with non-dualism concepts of spirituality in our galaxy... or i mean solar system )

Vader had to journey through the very depths of the dark side to understand it and return the balance

pre-Vader, anakin was confused about what was right and wrong, and only through Vader did he gain confidence and clarity, albeit in one brief second

admittedly in the time of the Empire there might have been flickers of regret/ guilt about being so evil and stuff in Vader.
post #80 of 225
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
And not only do you see his face, George Lucas REMOVED HIS EYEBROWS on the DVD's! Where does it end. He had Vader's eyebrows removed because he was burned badly in EP3.

umm.. hello Lucas? if there is so much technology to restore someone badly burnt by LAVA, with their ARM AND LEGS CHOPPED OFF, with one cybernetic arm left,

shurely cosmetic surgery techniques in the star wars universe can handle eyebrows?? we know that Vader does ocassionally take his helmet off in his special chamber (ep 4, 5 or 6...) perhaps one time he decided, hey, i want some eyebrows
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