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Star Wars Episode 3 - Page 3

post #81 of 225
5/21/05 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
.....And by the way, Midi-chlorians is not a cop-out. It only adds realism to the otherwise mystical/magical-only Force. In real life, "mitochondria" and "chloroplast" fulfill the same role essentially. .....

omigod and to think i actually have a honours degree in molecular biology

i just got it... Midi-chlorian is a combination of both the words "mitochondria" and "chloroplast". mitochondria being oxygen-consuming endosymbionts (in this galaxy) and chloroplasts being oxygen-releasing endosymbionts (also in this galaxy... well on earth anyway)...

hence a midichlorian as a unit of the force can handle both the
"dark side"
(energy consuming mitochondrions as we understand it now)
"light side"
(energy-producing chloroplasts which harvest energy from the sun)

or vice versa, depending on your interpretation

i have a bit more respect now for the whole midichlorian concept now that i more fully grasp (thanks to you johnq..! ) the duality of the midichlorian and it's modern-day-biology references
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post #82 of 225
5/21/05 at 11:17pm
Quote:
Originally posted by john.outwater
I'm going to have to diagree with that. Blowing up an entire planet (Alderan) is a bit more than maintaining a credible image.

Vader didn't blow up Alderaan. That was Tarkin's idea. Hence Vader's rather shocked "What do you mean?" Look how fast his head whips around Vader wanted to keep dragging his feet using the ineffectual mind probe on Leia. Vader was the one that let them escape. He suggested putting the tracking device on the Falcon, to Tarkin's displeasure. Vader even left the Death Star at the last minute. He wanted it destroyed.

Note Vader's rather consoling (albeit also restraining) grip on Leia's shoulder.

Plus it was Vader that was delaying Tarkin from finding the rebel base by demanding he be allowed to continue trying to extract info from Leia, which was slow and buying the Rebellion some time. Tarkin was too impatient for that. (page 87-88 of the novel).

I also think Vader's meditation chamber was built so that he could hide his feelings from the Emperor.

Darth Vader pre-burning/armor was evil. Post armor, I feel he was on a slow steady mission to eventually kill the Emperor. Not that the Emperor would be surprised, since that's the Sith way. But the Emperor was arrogant enough to think that Vader was old and weak and Luke was the only one that could do it. When Luke proved stubborn and not strong enough, he had no use for either of them.
"The Roots of Violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics...

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post #83 of 225
5/21/05 at 11:37pm
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
i have a bit more respect now for the whole midichlorian concept now that i more fully grasp (thanks to you johnq..! ) the duality of the midichlorian and it's modern-day-biology references

You've taken your first steps into a larger universe...
"The Roots of Violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics...

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post #84 of 225
5/21/05 at 11:43pm
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
You've taken your first steps into a larger universe...

*shakes fist* damn you johnQ ! just when i thought i was all enlightened, the fact that this point slipped by me...

i stand humbled, fellow seeker of Truth

it's a bloody never-ending story of learning and discovery, i tell ya...
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post #85 of 225
5/22/05 at 6:32am
gotta love the biology references back in the day when i had to take that class... it was soo easy i just slept through everything and pulled out an A... take car.e may the force be w/ you...

speaking of universes, does anyone believe that theres an end to the universe?

i do...
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post #86 of 225
5/22/05 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally posted by ragingloogie
speaking of universes, does anyone believe that theres an end to the universe?

i do...

THE universe? Or this particular one?

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

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Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

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post #87 of 225
5/22/05 at 9:19am
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
THE universe? Or this particular one?


Sequential or parallel or both?
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post #88 of 225
5/22/05 at 4:03pm
  • rok
  • the Casbah
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
George Lucas is NOT a screenwriter...but he's too powerful for anyone to actually tell him that. He appears to be not that great of a director either. Story visionary? Sure! Tremendous imagination? Absolutely!

read "the second coming of steve jobs." he devotes a chunk of a chapter on geroge lucas, since that's who steve bought pixar from, and in it, he makes mention of how the original star wars trilogy, while passed over for many oscars, actually did win them for editing (i.e. leaving stuff on the cutting room floor, george!). and who was the head of the editing team? his wife, whom he divorced shortly after the original trilogy, as they both cited the stress of the making of that original trilogy for splitting them up. so there's your answer... the only person with enough sway to tell george to keep his cgi in his pants was his wife. once she was gone, well...
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #89 of 225
5/22/05 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
so there's your answer... the only person with enough sway to tell george to keep his cgi in his pants was his wife. once she was gone, well...

Not that CGI existed then, aside from the primitive vector Death Star trench animation. The limits actually helped keep the story human and set the focus more tightly than the CGI menageries and too-busy compositions.

And editing isn't merely leaving things out. Pacing is crucial. Something that the prequels tends to lose once too many plotlines spring up and overlap.

But yeah it's obvious that his wife was influential. Unfortunately so was the dreadful (except her ass) Natalie Portman. There's pretty much only one way she got that gig...
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post #90 of 225
5/22/05 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
.... aside from the primitive vector Death Star trench animation....

that wireframe thing was cool... was it done in Logo or something?
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post #91 of 225
5/22/05 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
that wireframe thing was cool... was it done in Logo or something?

I love that it had the laser dish at the equator.

Good intel...
"The Roots of Violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics...

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post #92 of 225
5/22/05 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq
Right, in Jedi, Anakin kills the Emperor and brings balance to the force. Luke was a helpful distraction, to tempt the Emperor to think Luke would make a good replacement for Vader as the Emperor's new apprentice. (Remember, this was Vader offering that in Empire). This let Vader get Luke as close to the Emperor as possible. Vader knew Luke was good and powerful and would not kill his own father. This let Vader kill the Emperor himself when he was weakened/distracted.

The prophecy was right, it just took a while to happen.

I think that the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin brings about the death of most the Jedi. There were a lot of practitioners of the light-side of the force, (the jedi knights), and only a few practitioners of the dark-side (the seth). The the death of the jedi "balanced" the force. Of course, as we have all known since episode one that balancing the force was not going to be a good thing, and Yoda says as much when he state that they might have misinterpreted the prophecy.

And about Vader using Luke as a stalking horse -- Vader would have had many opportunities to kill the Emperor during his reign if he really wanted to: Vader made the decision to kill him in the climactic scene the moment that he decided that Lukes life was more important than his masters.

At least that is the way I see it.
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post #93 of 225
5/22/05 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Res
I think that the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin brings about the death of most the Jedi. There were a lot of practitioners of the light-side of the force, (the jedi knights), and only a few practitioners of the dark-side (the seth). The the death of the jedi "balanced" the force. Of course, as we have all known since episode one that balancing the force was not going to be a good thing, and Yoda says as much when he state that they might have misinterpreted the prophecy. ......

yeah that's the thing that makes me not like all the other jedi, except for Shakti because she's very cutely-drawn in CloneWars animated series... and of course i think yoda and obiwan are cool. mace windu is a bit too up himself for my liking.

but yeah that's the thing in that you could look at it that "okay, there is some balance coming to the force"... now the jedi should be thinking.. okay we have like hundreds of light-side practitioners... 1 dark lord and 1 dark apprentice... hmm... balancing is coming... hmmm...... HELLO? ANYONE HOME? too much light side...!! which explains the jedi council (i don't really like the council as well) being scared about anakin, because they know that the Jedi's reign of light-side supremacy is coming to an end....

just to recap... Obiwan, Shakti, and Yoda are the jedi's jedi... the rest, well.... i'm just not that impressed by them.

hmm.. my favourite Sith characters... well, Vader, yes, palpatine was really well-acted but the character himself is very scary
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post #94 of 225
5/23/05 at 12:00am
I'll say this for G. Lucas, he's moviedom's greatist marketeer EVAR...

Had he resisted the temptation to "kiddie-ize" Return Of The Jedi with Ewoks and Yoda, Darth and OWK standing together in ghosty relief at the end, that would have remained the overall best of the entire series...IMHO.

Certainly the acting in the original three movies is superior in almost every way compared to the last three. Yes, acting overall isn't as wretched in "Sith" as the first two. You guys are a forgiving bunch...
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post #95 of 225
5/23/05 at 12:39am
Just to jump back to page 1 - thanks to Sunilraman for his comments about who gets clones and who gets droids etc. I mostly kapish. must watch other episodes again soon

random thought
if only...We'd had wookies instead of ewoks in Ep6. instead of small irrelevant fluffy things, it would have been the mob of howling kickass chewies that we see fleetingly in ep3

Now, Death Stars. Am I right in thinking that at the end of Ep3 the bad guys looked out of the window at a partially built Deathstar? In which case does it take them another 15-20 years to finish off ready for Ep4?

But, didn't the emperor whip up a deathstar - albeit unfinished - superquick ready for Ep6? Maybe they had a selection on the go, or they had really good steel-frame construction team, but the internal fitting out had union trouble.

cheers
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post #96 of 225
5/23/05 at 1:43am
Quote:
Originally posted by brandnewfatboy
Just to jump back to page 1 - thanks to Sunilraman for his comments about who gets clones and who gets droids etc. I mostly kapish. must watch other episodes again soon

random thought
if only...We'd had wookies instead of ewoks in Ep6. instead of small irrelevant fluffy things, it would have been the mob of howling kickass chewies that we see fleetingly in ep3

Now, Death Stars. Am I right in thinking that at the end of Ep3 the bad guys looked out of the window at a partially built Deathstar? In which case does it take them another 15-20 years to finish off ready for Ep4?

But, didn't the emperor whip up a deathstar - albeit unfinished - superquick ready for Ep6? Maybe they had a selection on the go, or they had really good steel-frame construction team, but the internal fitting out had union trouble.

cheers
BNFB

ROFLMAO

yes wookies would definitely be awesome in episode 6, tie in with episode 3. wookies were cool in episode 3. everybody in the cinema went, "aww...." when chewie lifted yoda onto his shoulder.

yes at the end of episode 3 the bad guys are looking at a deathstar starting to be built. note also that at the end of episode 2 the geonosians (insect things) have the plans for the death star (hence my theory of the emperor harvesting the best tech from both the separatists and the old republic -- nothing like a good ol' war to get the scientists and technicians cranking out new diabolical stuff)

it kinda makes sense. it takes 15-20 years to build this big-ass thing that can essentially destroy a whole planet, recharge, then destroy another planet, all while cruising around in space at a reasonable speed.

in takes only a few years to rebuild because i guess they built it once already, and as we know this is 20+ years on when they first saw the plans, so in the star wars universe technology would have progressed quite fast as well that the emperor 'can whip up a new one' quicksmart.

edit: also by the end of episode 5 darth vader would have perfected his use of the force-death-neck-grip-killing so extra incentive for everybody to work really really hard as opposed to when he first became darth vader and was perhaps not as powerful
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post #97 of 225
5/23/05 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
read as they both cited the stress of the making of that original trilogy for splitting them up. well...

actually, Georges wife cheated on him, and left both him and the children.... poor george....
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post #98 of 225
5/23/05 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by The General
actually, Georges wife cheated on him, and left both him and the children.... poor george....

Bummer...
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post #99 of 225
5/23/05 at 6:43am
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
it kinda makes sense. it takes 15-20 years to build this big-ass thing that can essentially destroy a whole planet, recharge, then destroy another planet, all while cruising around in space at a reasonable speed.

Maybe they started both death stars at the same time, and one came on line first.

In fact, maybe they had more than 2 going at once.
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post #100 of 225
5/23/05 at 7:08am
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Maybe they started both death stars at the same time, and one came on line first.

In fact, maybe they had more than 2 going at once.

oooh... good stuff if george is going to make a tv series for the stuff that happens between episode 3 and 4
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post #101 of 225
5/23/05 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally posted by ZO
The music. Absolutely nothing original . Re-hash from Ep 1 and 4-5-6. Guess Williams is getting bored and old.

re the music, here's a link to an interview of John williams on NPR radio. john williams interview

Good insight into how the music was composed, specially how he integrated the musical themes of episode 4-6 into episodes 1-3.

It's definitely not rehash but a great thematic composition that is carried across all three movies. When you consider all 6 episodes as one, it really is the story of Anakin and the music reflects that.
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post #102 of 225
5/23/05 at 11:01am
My main problem with the 1-3 music is that it's more conventional sounding. In 4-6 lots of the music was done with oboes, clarinets and flutes guiding the melodies. It created a very unique presence. Conversely, 1-3 mostly used strings and horns, which, even with well scored music, leads to lacking in the freshness department, and hurts continuity a little between the 6 movies.

The other gripe, musically, I had, was with episode 2, when they goto that bar chasing the changling, I cannot believe they didn't take the opportunity to have some kicking rad cantina music!
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post #103 of 225
5/23/05 at 11:16am
i'll save my rant for my full blog entry in the next couple days, but how bout Anakin's PSP in Ep III? Terrible.
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post #104 of 225
5/23/05 at 11:19am
WOW, i thought that it rocked, I saw the movie last night and thought is was the best one I had seen out of the new ones that have been made. It answered alot of question that I had.
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post #105 of 225
5/23/05 at 11:45am
Wasn't the asian actress Bai Ling supposed to be in Episode 3?
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Steve Summers: What, you couldn't tell?
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Steve Summers: What are you, shy?...


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post #106 of 225
5/23/05 at 11:53am
Speaking to the 'rapid replacement' of the death star... this is an interesting point.... can someone timeline all of this out?

How many years are supposed to have passed from end of episode 3 to episode 4? (in other words how old is Luke?)

Then how many years are supposed to have passed between Episode 4 and 6?

This can give us the 'death star timeline'. Funny, I've had several people bring this up as an issue.

EDIT: Found this timeline. It puts the time between death stars as 4 years. (for death star 1 and 2)

http://www.starwarschicks.com/rpg/timeline.html

We know luke had to be what... 16 17 at least? Hum....

EDIT EDIT: Okay reading on it dates Luke at 20. So lets see... They didn't quite have the DS2 finished so lets say that it would have been finished by year 7 (which is fair considering a good 1/3 of it was missing)

A 3 fold improvment in efficiency? I'll buy that. (given the previously stated technology improvments as well as the 'we've already done this once' factor)
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post #107 of 225
5/23/05 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by mello
Wasn't the asian actress Bai Ling supposed to be in Episode 3?

http://www.theforce.net/episode3/sto..._III_91921.asp
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post #108 of 225
5/23/05 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Speaking to the 'rapid replacement' of the death star... this is an interesting point.... can someone timeline all of this out?

How many years are supposed to have passed from end of episode 3 to episode 4? (in other words how old is Luke?)

Then how many years are supposed to have passed between Episode 4 and 6?

This can give us the 'death star timeline'. Funny, I've had several people bring this up as an issue.

EDIT: Found this timeline. It puts the time between death stars as 4 years. (for death star 1 and 2)

http://www.starwarschicks.com/rpg/timeline.html

We know luke had to be what... 16 17 at least? Hum....

EDIT EDIT: Okay reading on it dates Luke at 20. So lets see... They didn't quite have the DS2 finished so lets say that it would have been finished by year 7 (which is fair considering a good 1/3 of it was missing)

A 3 fold improvment in efficiency? I'll buy that. (given the previously stated technology improvments as well as the 'we've already done this once' factor)

I have always assumed they began construction on the second death star, maybe even before they fully finished the first death star. They most likely started at least once DS1 was finished, but it's not outside the realm of reason to think they'd want 2+ of these things from the get-go.

Additionally, The DS2 was 'fully operational' despite looking half complete. This implies that their priority was creating another super laser, not necessarily a full blown death star station(which was for all intensive purposes a small city as well as a weapon)
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post #109 of 225
5/23/05 at 1:00pm
Two Death Stars??

I thought there was only one. it was damaged in EP4 but not put out of commission, was repaired and brought back online in EP 6.
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post #110 of 225
5/23/05 at 1:04pm
  • rok
  • the Casbah
SPOILER HERE... but honest to god, if you've read the thread this far, you've got half the script already...








i posted this on another message board, but what the heck is up with george lucas and dismemberment? shall we do a tally?

anakin/darth vader = both arms, both legs
count dooku/tyrannus = both arms, head
jango fett = head
general grievous = two hands
mace windu = entire right arm
luke skywalker = one hand
hoth beast = entire arm
c-3po = every limb (okay, that's kinda cheating since it was from a blaster rifle, but he spends a good chunk of TESB as a bag of bits on chewie's back, and gets his head um, misplaced, in AOTC)
darth maul = lower half (or upper half, if you're an optimist)

i know i am missing some, but seriously, what the hell?
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #111 of 225
5/23/05 at 1:18pm
Alien Fugitive in the cantina = arm
Darth Vader also loses one of his robotic hands in return of the jedi


I dunno... I think it's just a byproduct of playing with, oh you know, super powered laser swords!
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post #112 of 225
5/23/05 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
i posted this on another message board, but what the heck is up with george lucas and dismemberment? shall we do a tally?


well the weapon of choice is a light saber, which is basically a sword. What other mortal wound can you conflict with a sword? a deep stab? that is not very dramatic, is it? Also unlike a sword, a saber does not have a dull edge. not like you can knock someone on the head with it. If you notice, it cauterises as it cuts or dismembers if you will. Hence no bleeding. So, even though tons of people are killed on the Star Wars movies, very little blood is shown.

Again with the traction beam power of the force, maybe dismembering is the only way to ensure the holder does not get his weapon back.

Maybe cutting the head off is the traditional method of Jedi execution. Sorta like the Highlander movies.
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post #113 of 225
5/23/05 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Jamil
Two Death Stars??

I thought there was only one. it was damaged in EP4 but not put out of commission, was repaired and brought back online in EP 6.

it completely blew up in Episode IV!
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post #114 of 225
5/23/05 at 1:47pm
Well wouldn't being vaporized technically fall under the category of "damaged"?

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. - Albert Einstein

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post #115 of 225
5/23/05 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally posted by The General
actually, Georges wife cheated on him, and left both him and the children.... poor george....

She must have been banging her head on the wall for the past 20years, considering how much more she would have walked out with if she had stuck on till today
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post #116 of 225
5/23/05 at 2:26pm
  • rok
  • the Casbah
Quote:
Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Darth Vader also loses one of his robotic hands in return of the jedi

ah yes! that means dv has lost THREE arms.

guys, seriously, i KNOW they're dealing with laser swords. i was kinda joking... but seriously, there IS a lot of dismemberment when you start thinking about it. wonder if lucas has a trophy case at home, or the various limbs stuffed and hanging ont he walls in his reading room at skywalker ranch.

When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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post #117 of 225
5/23/05 at 11:11pm
You boys ought to see some Kurosawa films if you think Lucas is dismemberment happy.

Jedi are mostly Samurai, don't forget.
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post #118 of 225
5/23/05 at 11:20pm
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
i posted this on another message board, but what the heck is up with george lucas and dismemberment? shall we do a tally?

anakin/darth vader = both arms, both legs
count dooku/tyrannus = both arms, head
jango fett = head
general grievous = two hands
mace windu = entire right arm
luke skywalker = one hand
hoth beast = entire arm
c-3po = every limb (okay, that's kinda cheating since it was from a blaster rifle, but he spends a good chunk of TESB as a bag of bits on chewie's back, and gets his head um, misplaced, in AOTC)
darth maul = lower half (or upper half, if you're an optimist)

i know i am missing some, but seriously, what the hell?

Do AT-ATs and AT-SEs count? I think a few of them get "beheaded"...

And C-3PO gets his arm knocked off in A New Hope after the Sandmen attack.

Darth Vader gets his head cut off by Luke in The Tree dream.

And doesn't Obi-Wan's R5 unit get it's head ripped off by the buzz droids in E3?
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post #119 of 225
5/23/05 at 11:35pm
Quote:
Originally posted by johnq

And doesn't Obi-Wan's R5 unit get it's head ripped off by the buzz droids in E3?

Something about this one bothered me a little more than some of the other ones. I think because it was TORN off, not sliced off, as well as the likeness to the endearing R2
orange you just glad?
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orange you just glad?
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post #120 of 225
5/24/05 at 12:12am
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
ah yes! that means dv has lost THREE arms.

guys, seriously, i KNOW they're dealing with laser swords. i was kinda joking... but seriously, there IS a lot of dismemberment when you start thinking about it. wonder if lucas has a trophy case at home, or the various limbs stuffed and hanging ont he walls in his reading room at skywalker ranch.


vader lost FOUR arms.

1. episode 2 - dooku cuts of arm.
....arm replaced by cybernetic one
2. clone wars animated series - anakin goes on some quest, loses cybernetic arm
...arm replaced by cybernetic one
3. episode 3 - anakin loses non-cybernetic arm
...anakin is f8cked, becomes full-on cyborg
4. episode 6 IIRC - luke cuts of a vader's hand
...vader dies saving luke and killing emperor

LUCAS has a dismemberment fetish

just look at the droids getting chopped up and stuff... well, it is the technique with lightsabers though...
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