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PB G5 -- coming within next 14 days - Page 3

post #81 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I'll chalk that up to "just hope" then.

Look, it just doesn't make economic sense to manufacture a new machine only to sell it for a few months. And that two month update time wasn't a new model, it was the intro of the 12" and 17" models alongside the existing model.

Anything is possible, and maybe they'll do with the PowerBook what they did with the PowerMac two years ago - give the G4 one last update in January and then announce the G5 at WWDC. But that's just hope, and it's not based on the timeline of updates, and it's not based on any reliable information about a new G5 like there was with the PowerMac. More likely, I think they'll pull a Pismo and extend the life of the last G4 PowerBook until a new G5 is ready.

I'll bet ya on this. No new PowerBook at WWDC. Either way I win - if I'm wrong, I can get a new PowerBook, and if I'm right, I win the bet.

They aren't manufacturing a new machine. For all intensive purposes, it is the same machine with a few part bin swaps. If the powerbook sales are slowing, it doesn't make economic sense not to update it. Apple knows people want the G5 or at least something more than the current G4; as soon as they have that "something" ready for manufacturing it will be announced, recent update or not.
post #82 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by solero
Hello and welcome to the forum ryan

I'm waiting for the next PB upgrade (G4 or G5), since I think the price-power ratio in the current models are out of order. As someone else already said - the PB is a midlevel laptop dressed up to look like a highend model.

But I can afford to wait, since I don't have an urgent need for a new PB.

Just be careful not to be caught in the waiting game, like so many else!!!

i left that game in Jan - I could have waited till September but got fed up.
post #83 of 220
Look, we can mope over the calender all we want - fact is that while the powerbooks remain a very well designed tool, Apple's premier portable should not be thrashed by their midrange desktop (connectivity and GPU performance aside).
I'm still hoping for a dual core G4 - now that would say PRO.
john
post #84 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by ryanschmidt
I plan to go big and get the 17in with all the goods but I do not want to buy it and a week later see the G5 release. I know that no one knows but, does anyone have an IDEA when this could happen?
Please give me some opinions. I am not asking for facts because I know that it's all speculation at this point.
Thanks and as you can tell, this is my first post. I have been reading these forums for about a month, just never registered.

Look, this is the problem with undocumented posts. Before Apple can have a PB G5 it has to have a low power G5 chip. The first low power G5 chip will be the 970gx but that is not even completed yet. And not even close to being massproduced. So the good news you PB will not be outdated in a few months. Untill we even see a 970gx it won't be oudted buy a G5 anytime soon. The bad news is that the rest of us will have to wait a while for the PB G5 and hope the 970gx is cool enough to run in a laptop. Good luck, while in college.
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post #85 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by two
...For all intensive purposes

post #86 of 220
Does anyone know where microdisiac vanished off to?
post #87 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by AquaMac
Look, this is the problem with undocumented posts. Before Apple can have a PB G5 it has to have a low power G5 chip. The first low power G5 chip will be the 970gx but that is not even completed yet. And not even close to being massproduced. So the good news you PB will not be outdated in a few months. Untill we even see a 970gx it won't be oudted buy a G5 anytime soon. The bad news is that the rest of us will have to wait a while for the PB G5 and hope the 970gx is cool enough to run in a laptop. Good luck, while in college.

And your sources for this string of assertions are...?

We have no indication that the 970gx is the low power chip. The source that broke the 970MP and GX story also suggested the existence of a third, explicitly low power variant.

The MP and GX were sampling to Apple last year, and there have been some indications that there may have been production problems holding up their use in Apple products. It is also possible that any hold up is because Apple wants to use up stocks of the FX.

If there is a low-power chip - and I think it is almost certain there is, Apple and IBM have had at least two years to work on one - then there is a very good chance it is ready to go into new laptop models.

The almost complete absence of substantive rumours in the build-up to WWDC (contrast that with the impressive flow of news about Tiger's release) suggests to me that they are planning on making a big noise at WWDC. There are also large slots open in the conference programme, where a big announcement and follow-up sessions could go (according to a Macintouch correspondent).

So is that going to be new PowerBooks with a G5 badge (whatever might be inside), or new MP powered PowerMacs, or both? You don't know, I don't know, and those who do know aren't talking because they don't want to lose their Jobs.

But I will not be replacing my Pismo for a while yet.

Pip pip!
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post #88 of 220
Ah the Pismo, a wonderful machine.

Now if Apple returned to that thickness a PB G5 might be more doable.
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post #89 of 220
I'm suspecting that possibly niether, that Apple will spend that valuable conference time on something new. Maybe the tablet rumors are a reality, there are also other new technology possibilities.

That doesn't mean the 'books won't be updated just that they might not be the focus of the show. From what we know of technology, from public IBM information, I'd have to think that any 64 bit 'book is likely to have some sort of PPE like processor in it. I just can't see the 970 moving forward and at the same time significantly lowering power.

The other issue with respect to the 970 is its need for a support processor just to start up. For any sort of portable this strikes me as a waste. So I don't see a 970xx based portable coming soon, at least not a version we know about today.

Maybe I'm a little to focused on what a portable is. In my mind the idea behind a portable is to be able to run on a battery free of a power cord. Performance is important here of course but not at the expense of 0.8hrs of run time.

Dave


Quote:
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
So is that going to be new PowerBooks with a G5 badge (whatever might be inside), or new MP powered PowerMacs, or both? You don't know, I don't know, and those who do know aren't talking because they don't want to lose their Jobs.

But I will not be replacing my Pismo for a while yet.

Pip pip!
post #90 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by two
They aren't manufacturing a new machine. For all intensive purposes, it is the same machine with a few part bin swaps. If the powerbook sales are slowing, it doesn't make economic sense not to update it. Apple knows people want the G5 or at least something more than the current G4; as soon as they have that "something" ready for manufacturing it will be announced, recent update or not.

Not to be nitpicky, but it's for all *intents and* purposes, not intensive.
post #91 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by steppenwolf
Not to be nitpicky, but it's for all *intents and* purposes, not intensive.

Although it might be for intensive purposes. I've seen my share of unintensive purposes. We could also add, since we're on this topic that it's NOT card shark but card sharp. Nor is it long shot as in "not by a long shot"; it's long chalk. Therefore, you ask, "Hey, are we gonna see a G5 PB at WWDC?" and I reply, "No way, man, not by a long chalk." But a Dual G4 would be acceptable.8)
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post #92 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
And your sources for this string of assertions are...?

We have no indication that the 970gx is the low power chip. The source that broke the 970MP and GX story also suggested the existence of a third, explicitly low power variant.

The MP and GX were sampling to Apple last year, and there have been some indications that there may have been production problems holding up their use in Apple products. It is also possible that any hold up is because Apple wants to use up stocks of the FX.

If there is a low-power chip - and I think it is almost certain there is, Apple and IBM have had at least two years to work on one - then there is a very good chance it is ready to go into new laptop models.

The almost complete absence of substantive rumours in the build-up to WWDC (contrast that with the impressive flow of news about Tiger's release) suggests to me that they are planning on making a big noise at WWDC. There are also large slots open in the conference programme, where a big announcement and follow-up sessions could go (according to a Macintouch correspondent).

So is that going to be new PowerBooks with a G5 badge (whatever might be inside), or new MP powered PowerMacs, or both? You don't know, I don't know, and those who do know aren't talking because they don't want to lose their Jobs.

But I will not be replacing my Pismo for a while yet.

Pip pip!

This gives me some type of hope, thank you. In this situation, considering I do not have the money right now anyhow, this is a good hope even if it's a false hope.
post #93 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by ryanschmidt
This gives me some type of hope, thank you. In this situation, considering I do not have the money right now anyhow, this is a good hope even if it's a false hope.

Dual G4 laptop... hmm... Now if the G5 is too hot could dual G4s be cool enough? That would be excellent. :P
post #94 of 220
I've been saying this the last year. That I'd rather have a dual g4 than a single g5. The e600MP may be done before the lowpowered g5... This is the only thing I'm waiting on... if it doesn't happen by WWDC, then I'm ordering my powerbook.

 

 

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post #95 of 220
I freakin hate this preoccupation with thin PowerBooks!!! Either make one thicker, or perhaps split the line, or something. A slightly thicker PB G5 is a heeell of a lot better than a thin one that has 1/5 the performance! The G4 bus performance is now very, very behind. Liquid cool the thing if you must. The G5 needs to come or PB sales will suck. And they have good margins.
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post #96 of 220
Liquid cooling doesn't add that much more cooling than a good heatsink / fan combo.

Apple DOES have room for growth in the thickness of their machines. I've seen some pretty bulky PC laptops lately... personally I'd never own one, but I can see the apple growing another .25 inch and still being acceptable.

 

 

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post #97 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
I freakin hate this preoccupation with thin PowerBooks!!! Either make one thicker, or perhaps split the line, or something. A slightly thicker PB G5 is a heeell of a lot better than a thin one that has 1/5 the performance! The G4 bus performance is now very, very behind. Liquid cool the thing if you must. The G5 needs to come or PB sales will suck. And they have good margins.

With a little bit of creativity and a few years to perfect it, Apple (or anyone interested) could develop a technique to make laptops thin without sacrificing heat dissipation. For example: if the CPU were sunk into a glass-like subtrate -- preferably a amorphous metallic ceramic -- and channels were molded into the glass, the heat of the chip would be enough to cause liquid to circulate in the channels, spreading the heat across the entire bottom section of the laptop. Apple already uses this kind of convection cooling. The trick would be molding the metallic glass and sinking the chip in it. But more outrageous things have been done. . . and been commercialized.
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post #98 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I've been saying this the last year. That I'd rather have a dual g4 than a single g5. The e600MP may be done before the lowpowered g5... This is the only thing I'm waiting on... if it doesn't happen by WWDC, then I'm ordering my powerbook.

Same here. I'm typing on my first Apple laptop, an iBook purchased new in Jan. 2000 366mHz/Firewire/572mb/20G. It has held up great, Panther runs fine on it, but I finally want a little more power, so I could make do with a current iBook or Powerbook. If WWDC yields something, I'll take it. If not, I'll take what Apple's got right now because it's still gonna run a dozen times faster than what I've got.
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post #99 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by Rhumgod
You're joking right? Why? Well, Freescale and IBM produce PowerPC chips and all code is compiled for that line. In order to have both PowerPC and x86 chip lines in their products, they would have to maintain two completely different code bases and their 3rd party software vendors would have to do the same. Why in the hell would anyone spend the money on that??!?!!


don't distract him, he is happy... besides such arguments are fruitless in the face of whose who hope for an AMD powered Mac.
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post #100 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
I freakin hate this preoccupation with thin PowerBooks!!! Either make one thicker, or perhaps split the line, or something. A slightly thicker PB G5 is a heeell of a lot better than a thin one that has 1/5 the performance! The G4 bus performance is now very, very behind. Liquid cool the thing if you must. The G5 needs to come or PB sales will suck. And they have good margins.

Oh please no! I've owned two inch thick dells that weigh ten pounds, have two fans and get three hours of battery life even when you have two batteries in them...

Of course despite having a G4, Apple sells ALOT of PBs- they are still competetive because laptops aren't ranked on overall speed so much as how good of a complete computer solution they are. Apple's laptops are incredibly well rounded.
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post #101 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
I'm suspecting that possibly niether, that Apple will spend that valuable conference time on something new. Maybe the tablet rumors are a reality, there are also other new technology possibilities.

That doesn't mean the 'books won't be updated just that they might not be the focus of the show. From what we know of technology, from public IBM information, I'd have to think that any 64 bit 'book is likely to have some sort of PPE like processor in it. I just can't see the 970 moving forward and at the same time significantly lowering power.

The other issue with respect to the 970 is its need for a support processor just to start up. For any sort of portable this strikes me as a waste. So I don't see a 970xx based portable coming soon, at least not a version we know about today.

Maybe I'm a little to focused on what a portable is. In my mind the idea behind a portable is to be able to run on a battery free of a power cord. Performance is important here of course but not at the expense of 0.8hrs of run time.

Dave

Compared with the relatively detailed leak of the 970MP and GX specs, we've heard nothing about the putative low-power chip beyond that it was sampling at speeds of 1.6 to 2.0GHz. There were rumours a year or so ago that Apple and IBM were playing around with multi-core laptop chips, but that was dismissed at the time. However, with what we now know about Waternoose and Cell, it's at least conceivable that Apple and IBM decided to play with the same ingredients. Two PPE cores and a couple of SPEs perhaps? With an on-die memory controller? Clocked relatively low (to save power & heat), but in combination handily outpacing any single 970 core at laptop friendly clock rates?

Tiger's "core" technologies may be the key here, and getting Tiger out of the door necessary to allow the release of new hardware with CPUs that ship a lot of the "core" tasks out to SPE-type co-processors. That's what the big holes in the programme are for, perhaps. Sessions to get devs focussed on making hte best use of this new, but relatively specialised processing power.

On the other hand, I'm not expecting the above. It's possible, that's all. I suspect that what we will actually get will be a single core 970-based design.

Pip pip!
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post #102 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by macinJosh
POWERBOOK G5 -- PHOTO!!!


You can tell it's a fake, that's obviously just a cardboard box with an apple taped on it. Bigfoot must think we're all fools.
post #103 of 220
Actually, to join in the pedantry...

"long shot" is a proper phrase....

From "World Wide Words": "A related expression is not by a long shot. However, this is originally a military idiom, based on the difficulty of hitting a target at long range, hence an outside chance."

Same with Card Shark (even showed up using Tiger's Dashboard dictionary!).

The take home lesson is that English is a living language - so, for example, even though "beg the question" is consistently misused, compared to its historical definition, many experts are starting to accept the new usage as an acceptable alternate.

Go figure.

Fish

/pedant mode off
post #104 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
You can tell it's a fake, that's obviously just a cardboard box with an apple taped on it. Bigfoot must think we're all fools.

Oh I don't know. It's better than those photos philbot posted of the mysterious new product taken by a friend in the Charles De Gaul airport elevator last summer.

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post #105 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
Compared with the relatively detailed leak of the 970MP and GX specs, we've heard nothing about the putative low-power chip beyond that it was sampling at speeds of 1.6 to 2.0GHz. There were rumours a year or so ago that Apple and IBM were playing around with multi-core laptop chips, but that was dismissed at the time.


Well some dismissed it, I certainly didn't! The question is can IBM deliver such a chip to Apple this year. The extended introductions of other PPE based processors brings that into question.

Like others I would have loved to seen a dual core e600 based portable this year. On the other hand my computer investments tend to be long term and a 64 bit processor of the right implementation would be a far smarter investment.
Quote:

However, with what we now know about Waternoose and Cell, it's at least conceivable that Apple and IBM decided to play with the same ingredients. Two PPE cores and a couple of SPEs perhaps? With an on-die memory controller? Clocked relatively low (to save power & heat), but in combination handily outpacing any single 970 core at laptop friendly clock rates?

I'm not even sure they would need the SPE's. Just having and improved vector processor could go a long ways in support future needs. This is especially the case if one ends up with 4 0r 6 hardware threads. I like what you propose, for Apple the trick would be marketing the unit. There are many non believers when it comes to SMP, some concerns justified but the reality is that it can be a huge win for many users.
Quote:

Tiger's "core" technologies may be the key here, and getting Tiger out of the door necessary to allow the release of new hardware with CPUs that ship a lot of the "core" tasks out to SPE-type co-processors. That's what the big holes in the programme are for, perhaps. Sessions to get devs focussed on making hte best use of this new, but relatively specialised processing power.

Yes TIGER is extremely important to supporting such hardware. As to the wholes in the WWDC program, I don't know to be honest. The thing is that in many ways portables are a mature technology so would there really be a need to focus developers on mutlithreaded hardware? I'm still holding out hope that the real surprises are technology applied to new markets.

The tablet would be one place such that could justify a open slot. Other things like open system video hardware is another. Apple delivering an HD video server would be neat.
Quote:

On the other hand, I'm not expecting the above. It's possible, that's all. I suspect that what we will actually get will be a single core 970-based design.

Well it might be nice but I suspect that we will get something else. That is based on the power profile of 970 hardware we know about and the slim chance that the architecture can be harnessed at lower power levels.

I see PPE's as the path to future portables for a couple of reasons. One is the power/size issue. The other is the chips potential for custimization.

Dave

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Pip pip!

post #106 of 220
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post #107 of 220
This is what I'm thinking:

The person who made this post posted this on the 22nd, announcing that there would be a laptop in the next 14 days.
Lets do some math:
May 22nd + 14 days = June 6th.

Coincedentaly, this is when the WWDC keynote is. My guess is that this person has no clue what their talking about, and they are just making a guess for WWDC. It is POSSIBLE that G5 laptops could be out at WWDC...but in my opinion...highly unlikely. I wouldn't read to much into this post.
post #108 of 220
OH Rhum,

You do tease us so...

If only....

I guess only Steve knows.
post #109 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
I guess only Steve knows.

You got that right. No TS, no MacRumors, nothin'. We got nothin'!
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post #110 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
I see PPE's as the path to future portables for a couple of reasons. One is the power/size issue. The other is the chips potential for custimization.

I think you're absolutely right, but the timing of the move is the big imponderable. If they don't have some kind of low power multi-core CPU ready now (and I agree that given the timelines for the other PPE chips that seems unlikely), then whatever laptop chip they have got up their sleeve will probably have to have a reasonable life to recoup the development costs. That puts PPE core laptop chips 18 months to two years away, I'd guess.

I wonder what the 970MP thermals are like? It probably needs Apple's watercooling at 2.5 to 3GHz, but at 1.5GHz? Or even slightly lower? Single thread performance might not show much improvement over the G4 at the same clock rate, but the extra CPU would make everything else fly. That would be a real step up from today.

On the other hand, a single core 970Mobile at 1.8 to 2.0GHz would still be a good marketing proposition. I'd buy one.

Pip pip!
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post #111 of 220
What was really weird was how Powerbook7,1 and Powerbook7,2 appeared in the plist for the G5 platform driver in 10.3.5 (?) last summer and then disappeared in a later release. That suggests prototypes existed and possibly were seeded with very select developers, but at least inside the cupertino campus. Whether it was removed because the designs were scrapped or because someone realized info was leaking out this way, I don't know. I'd like to though.
post #112 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by unixguru
What was really weird was how Powerbook7,1 and Powerbook7,2 appeared in the plist for the G5 platform driver in 10.3.5 (?) last summer and then disappeared in a later release.

Was it last summer? I thought it was towards the year end, giving us all hope for January's MWSF. That might have been the machine that prompted "the mother of all thermal challenges" comment.

But it does strongly suggest that they've got a laptop chipset ready to go - and waiting for something...

Pip pip!
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post #113 of 220
Re: long shot or long chalk

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_b...ssages/12.html

"Whether it was suggested by a difficult long shot attempted in archery or shooting isn't known, but the expression 'a long shot' first arose in British racing circles some 128 years ago as a bet laid at large odds, a bold wager. NOT BY A LONG SHOT therefore means hopelessly out of reckoning. Attempts have been made to derive the saying from the slightly earlier NOT BY A LONG CHALK, which comes from the use of chalk for reckoning points in tavern games. But 'not by a long chalk' means 'not by much,' so it seems that the phrase (long shot) derives from either archery or shooting." From "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997).
post #114 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by Bucolic Old Sir Henry
Was it last summer? I thought it was towards the year end, giving us all hope for January's MWSF. That might have been the machine that prompted "the mother of all thermal challenges" comment.

But it does strongly suggest that they've got a laptop chipset ready to go - and waiting for something...

Pip pip!

Yep, last August.

They are now encrypted by the way.
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post #115 of 220
I think that plist file in the 10.3.5 update let the cat of the bag with respect to PowerBook G5s. It's going to either be in a week+ or Paris, or sometime in between.

I can't believe for the life of me with all of the R&D Apple poured into the G5 with IBM, that they weren't also working in parallel on a G5 that would work for portables.
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post #116 of 220
When is Paris?
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post #117 of 220
Mid-Sept.
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post #118 of 220
Paris is feasible,

But if apple doesn't release it at WWDC, i'm getting a current powerbook. I'm starting to lose production because of not having a fast enough mac. I screwed myself on a project for 2 months because I didn't have a mac at all. Right now I'm on a g4 cube 450 with upgraded video and harddrive. I think the only way to get this fast enough is more ram (352 in it now) and another cpu.

I'm also going to be travelling a lot this summer, so I better get on this project. I definitely learned my lesson about the "waiting game".

 

 

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post #119 of 220
hey what about this link? seems to be what you want but not a G5
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...=DRPPCDUALCORE
post #120 of 220
Quote:
Originally posted by wwwork
hey what about this link? seems to be what you want but not a G5
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...=DRPPCDUALCORE

See above where I mentioned the e600mp

 

 

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