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US planting car bombs in Iraq - Page 2

post #41 of 128
The issue why with all the oil in the world the US can't secure electricity is that people there 'tolerate terrorism'.

Terrorrriiisssmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Terrrrroooorrrrriiiiiiisssmmmm.
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post #42 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
So let's say you are right.

I suppose the media and government in your country (and seg's) does any different?

In a democratic environment, the media should be a tool of the people, not of the government!

Aside from the domestic issue of governance, the Hong Kong government steers clear of international politics. The Chinese propaganda machine has little reach here, fortunately. I say "little" but that does not mean none. We do have Chinese TV news here, but basically only mainland immigrants watch it. The Chinese TV channels are biased in a very clear way, meaning, for example, that when the Amnesty International report came out last week, their condemnation of the US human rights record was briefly reported but the comments about Hong Kong and China itself were ignored.

In Hong Kong, as I've said, half of the newspapers and politically involved magazines are pro-China and half are "neutral" with one major player (very popular magazine and newpaper) "liberal". But that's only concerning domestic politics.

In terms of international politics, all of the newspapers reported on the AI report criticizing the US. All of the newspapers reported on the AI criticism of Hong Kong. But placement and depth of reporting, as well as editorial input obviously varied according to the tone of the paper. And there are papers of varying tones.

In terms of domestic politics, all of the papers will report on the upcoming June 4 candlelight vigil to mourn and condemn the Tienanmen Square crackdown in 1989. But the "pro-Beijing" papers will report very little on an inside page, and the neutral and liberal papers will fill the front page. The "pro-Beijing" papers might print editorials criticizing the demonstrators, while the neutral papers will print editorials and letters from both sides. The Apple Daily and Next magazine will report on the issue for days or weeks.
post #43 of 128
Quote:
Rumor has it that he saw...

Quote:
The bombs are mysterious.

Quote:
He found a time bomb with the clock ticking...

Quotes one and two hardly constitue hard evidence. The third probably ought to have set off a bullshit detector somewhere in the house.
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post #44 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius Evidence is continuing to mount that the US are behind many of the car bombs that are increasingly claiming lives in Baghdad and the surrounding areas.

Not bloody likely.
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post #45 of 128
Personally, I am still waiting for how Iran and Syria have been aggressive.

To me, this activity of pro-actively apologizing for the indefensible actions of those in authority smells a lot like Stalin's "useful idiots".
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post #46 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
So let's say you are right.

I suppose the media and government in your country (and seg's) does any different?

NaplesX is this the best you can do?

On another note,, I know a guy who works for a defense contractor here in my area, and he knows my wife and I are going to Paris this year. He loves to insist that the French were polite to me the last time I visited Paris simply because "They just want your money when you are in town" because he believes that the French are supposed to be "rude". The funny thing is that he is completely wrong. He only supposes that the French "want my money" in order to be polite and nice. Yet he does not extend his bullshit logic to America. He would never say that "Americans are just friendly to tourists from abroad simply because they are taking money out of the hands of foreign tourists. He is a bigot and he is filled with ignorance and hate to those who are not "American"

His problem is that he thinks Americans are "superior" to others in this world most especially those who were in opposition to the war in Iraq.

The arguments used in your day to day postings smell just like the empty bigoted nonsense this guy spouts off when he talks politics to me.

I can't understand why some Americans feel that they are "superior" to others in the world and somehow self-righteous and entitled to be in a place of authority to put the rest of the world "in it's place" if you will.

It is hatred at the core of it all.

Fellows
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #47 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Personally, I am still waiting for how Iran and Syria have been aggressive.

To me, this activity of pro-actively apologizing for the indefensible actions of those in authority smells a lot like Stalin's "useful idiots".

Breaking news October 06, 2004:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,134597,00.html (AP story)

IAEA Full Text
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3669530.stm

and Iran reacted this way to that:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139598,00.html (AP story) 7 days later
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...3/151215.shtml

And now further ballistic missile developments
http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13813498

No aggression? This from a known terror supporter and you see no red flags?

I know, I know. It's ALL GWB's fault.


post #48 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
NaplesX is this the best you can do?

Not by far, but I think that we need to touch base with reality every once in a while.

Who cares about your friend, and what does that have to do with me? I don't hate anyone, not even you "progressives".

post #49 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
No aggression? This from a known terror supporter and you see no red flags?

I see nuclear weapons development. It's a problem, sure, but I wouldn't qualify it as "aggression" since there is already a definition for the word "aggression" and the incident you posted does not fit that definition.
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post #50 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
I see nuclear weapons development. It's a problem, sure, but I wouldn't qualify it as "aggression" since there is already a definition for the word "aggression" and the incident you posted does not fit that definition.

Fine, I see it as aggression and you see it as a mere "problem".

Lack of foresight on your part, IMO.
post #51 of 128
How many nations have used nuclear weapons against other nations?

Don't you know that only democracies can get away with nuking civilians?
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post #52 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
How many nations have used nuclear weapons against other nations?

Don't you know that only democracies can get away with nuking civilians?

Is that your argument?

I thought I was talking with adults.
post #53 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Personally, I am still waiting for how Iran and Syria have been aggressive.

To me, this activity of pro-actively apologizing for the indefensible actions of those in authority smells a lot like Stalin's "useful idiots".

Syria -

Director of cia on syria and Iran.
http://washtimes.com/national/20050317-112954-7044r.htm

and lest we forget the unholy alliance between the two:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4270859.stm

Just shy of a declaration of war, IMO.
post #54 of 128
So Iran and Syria are aggressors because they are causing violence inside of Iraq?

Eh...
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post #55 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
So Iran and Syria are aggressors because they are causing violence inside of Iraq?

Eh...

Um, yeah.

Sending forces against US forces is aggression. Please tell me how it's not.
post #56 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
What band is that? The little-ladies-cussing-Iran-Syria band?




Sorry I've just been reading through this thread without comment and that was just too funny!
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post #57 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Sending forces against US forces is aggression. Please tell me how it's not.

Wait wait wait... since when did Iran and Syria "send forces against US forces"?

That's an extremely bold claim.
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post #58 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Wait wait wait... since when did Iran and Syria "send forces against US forces"?

That's an extremely bold claim.

Wait wait wait... you must then buy into the crap coming from both nations that they are totally oblivious to the hundreds and thousands of Syrian and Iranian jihadists streaming across the borders.

This even though Syria is publicizing the the fact that it has caught hundreds of such people.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...orld-headlines

What do you think the ratio of caught versus successful is in Syria?

Of course you would have to ignore this report also:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=34366

But hey, you "progressives" are smarter and better intentioned than the rest of us. So, your probably right.

EDIT: sorry forgot this one:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003832.php
post #59 of 128
If Syria has caught them, how are they also sending them?

In your article it shows Saudi Arabians also coming into Iraq. Is Saudi Arabia on your list of aggressors? If not, why?

And you really should read your articles before posting them:
Quote:
Much of the criticism of Syria appears to be political. The foreign fighters issue has been a favorite Washington pressure point, even though U.S. military and intelligence officials in Iraq have long played down Syria's role. The insurgency, they have said, is overwhelmingly Iraqi. The foreign infiltrators have their choice of Iraq's six international borders, not just the frontier with Syria.

*ahem*

Don't give me the gun to shoot you with, Naples, that takes all the sport out of this.

I have no doubt that Iranians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians and others are coming into Iraq to blow things up. I have large doubts that the governments of those nations are playing any meaningful role in the Iraqi insurgency. And you know what? US military and intelligence officials agree with me.
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post #60 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Wait wait wait... you must then buy into the crap coming from both nations that they are totally oblivious to the hundreds and thousands of Syrian and Iranian jihadists streaming across the borders.

This even though Syria is publicizing the the fact that it has caught hundreds of such people.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...orld-headlines

What do you think the ratio of caught versus successful is in Syria?

Of course you would have to ignore this report also:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=34366

But hey, you "progressives" are smarter and better intentioned than the rest of us. So, your probably right.

EDIT: sorry forgot this one:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003832.php


I see you waited for Groverat to leave ( true to form ) before posting your reply.

Well still a rather " bold " claim as per this item in your first link :

-----------------------------------------------------------

" Much of the criticism of Syria appears to be political. The foreign fighters issue has been a favorite Washington pressure point, even though U.S. military and intelligence officials in Iraq have long played down Syria's role. The insurgency, they have said, is overwhelmingly Iraqi. The foreign infiltrators have their choice of Iraq's six international borders, not just the frontier with Syria.

Military analysts say there are several U.S. incentives for blaming Syria. Depicting Iraq as a haven for foreign terrorists validates President Bush's claims that Iraq is the center of the global war on terrorism. And branding the insurgency as foreign-inspired hides the fact that many Iraqis actively oppose the U.S.-led invasion.

Even so, Syria appears to be trying to meet U.S. demands by publicizing its actions against would-be border-crossers. Syria said it detained hundreds of foreigners trying to infiltrate Iraq. "

-----------------------------------------------------------

As for the others they're hardly timely. Look at the dates. The last one being more editorial than anything else.

Either way this is hardly proof that Iran or Syria are officially sending forces against U. S. forces ( which by the way shouldn't be there in the first place ).
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post #61 of 128
Thread Starter 
Again from Naples' Jihad Watch

Quote:
Riyadh, 30 May (AKI) - Syria has handed more than 30 Saudis caught trying to cross the border into Iraq back to Saudi Arabia, according to the Saudi interior minister Prince Naif. The Saudi newspaper Arab News reports that in the last few weeks Syria has arrested more than 300 Saudis it suspected of travelling to Iraq to join the insurgency there. Syria is under immense pressure to tighten up security along its "porous border" with Iraq.
Saudi Arabia says it has no idea how many Saudis are in Iraq, but analysts believe hundreds, even thousands may have gone there since the US-led invasion two years ago, which brought down Saddam Hussein's regime.

So let's get it straight Naples style:

Syria is causing 'aggression'.

The form this allegedly takes is in sending fighters to Iraq.

But actually they are arresting fighters and handing them over to the coalition (as they did re the Madrid bomb suspects).

And the fighters are not Syrian but Saudi and estimated to numbers in the thousands.

And the Saudis are 'A-OK' and allies in the WOT and against Syrian aggression.

OK. Got it.
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post #62 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat


And you really should read your articles before posting them:

Tut tut Naples, not that trick again.
post #63 of 128
Thread Starter 
And again - the Syrian regime is in fact an ally of the US in terms of the torture of Islamists and is implicated along with other friendly fascists in the torture jets scandal.

So against the insane idea that they are sending the fighters, there is also the fact they they are torturing these same alleged fighters at the US's behest.

There's a problem here - as there so often is with Naples's logic - but thankfully in this case it is easily resolved.

Syria is a secular quasi-Marxist State and is in fact run by a branch of the Ba'ath party - which is why they are uniformly hostile to Islamists and were massacring them wholesale for decades before 911 and still are.

In fact, when wingers talk about atrocities perpetrated by the Syrian regime they actually mean atrocities against Muslim fundamentalists and people you would call 'terrorists' - just like the US does in fact.

So there is a lot in common and of course, some deal has been done. Syria is safe now, the committee has chosen Iran to host the fireworks.

You might care inform yourself and Google "Hama massacre" or perhaps "Syria and Muslim Brotherhood" (that is Qutub's outfit btw).
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post #64 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
[B]In a democratic environment, the media should be a tool of the people, not of the government!

The media should be defined not only by what they print and broadcast, but also what they omit. Who is the arbiter of what the American public sees, hears and watches? Wealthy, well-connected conservative greying businessmen in boardrooms? Or arty farty lefty radicals in birkenstocks and tie-dyes? Silly question, undoubtedly.

In the U.S. our own national media have become the publicity arm of the Bush junta, i.e. big corporate through and through. Mussolini would be proud!
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post #65 of 128
Quote:
crap posted by jimmac
I see you waited for Groverat to leave ( true to form ) before posting your reply.

Well still a rather " bold " claim as per this item in your first link :

-----------------------------------------------------------

" Much of the criticism of Syria appears to be political. The foreign fighters issue has been a favorite Washington pressure point, even though U.S. military and intelligence officials in Iraq have long played down Syria's role. The insurgency, they have said, is overwhelmingly Iraqi. The foreign infiltrators have their choice of Iraq's six international borders, not just the frontier with Syria.

Military analysts say there are several U.S. incentives for blaming Syria. Depicting Iraq as a haven for foreign terrorists validates President Bush's claims that Iraq is the center of the global war on terrorism. And branding the insurgency as foreign-inspired hides the fact that many Iraqis actively oppose the U.S.-led invasion.

Even so, Syria appears to be trying to meet U.S. demands by publicizing its actions against would-be border-crossers. Syria said it detained hundreds of foreigners trying to infiltrate Iraq. "

-----------------------------------------------------------

As for the others they're hardly timely. Look at the dates. The last one being more editorial than anything else.

Either way this is hardly proof that Iran or Syria are officially sending forces against U. S. forces ( which by the way shouldn't be there in the first place ).

Are you purposely trying to be juvenile or does it just come naturally?
post #66 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Are you purposely trying to be juvenile or does it just come naturally?

Comeback of the Year.
post #67 of 128
Jabbing is fine if there is surrounding content. Jabbing alone is not worth posting, my dear fellows.
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post #68 of 128
Easy. NaplesX is condemnig Syria because Uncle Sam is condemnig Syria. NaplesX is ignoring Saudi because Uncle Sam is ignoring Saudi.

The boy hasn't had an independent thought in his life. A perfect cog in the Rove machine.
post #69 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Easy. NaplesX is condemnig Syria because Uncle Sam is condemnig Syria. NaplesX is ignoring Saudi because Uncle Sam is ignoring Saudi.

The boy hasn't had an independent thought in his life. A perfect cog in the Rove machine.

Easy. Tonton is not condemning Syria because Michael Moore and the "progressives" are not condemnig Syria. Tonton is not ignoring Saudi because Michael Moore and the "progressives" are not ignoring Saudi.

The boy hasn't had an independent thought in his life. A perfect cog in the Dean machine.

See how easy your game is.
post #70 of 128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Easy. Tonton is not condemning Syria because Michael Moore and the "progressives" are not condemnig Syria. Tonton is not ignoring Saudi because Michael Moore and the "progressives" are not ignoring Saudi.

The boy hasn't had an independent thought in his life. A perfect cog in the Dean machine.

See how easy your game is.

Any luck with the explanation of how the 'Syrians' were actually Saudis and the fact that the Ba'athists are committed to eradicating the Islamists ?
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post #71 of 128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Any luck with the explanation of how the 'Syrians' were actually Saudis and the fact that the Ba'athists are committed to eradicating the Islamists ?

No.
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post #72 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
No.

You are being extremely dishonest, or you are just choosing to assimilate only what you want. I contend that Anti-US sentiment trumps most alliances in that region right now. That means, to me, that you could easily see alliances between former enemies.

That's how I explain it. Stop acting the ass.
post #73 of 128
Naples:

You've shifted those goalposts pretty far. That's fine, we all make wild, baseless claims only to later learn that they are ridiculous, but I don't see the point in covering up the fact that you were wrong by participating in catfights and ignoring the giant gaping holes in your logic. It's also not good to completely ignore questions asked directly of you.

Neither do I see the point in other posters doing nothing but trying to start flamewars.
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post #74 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Naples:

You've shifted those goalposts pretty far. That's fine, we all make wild, baseless claims only to later learn that they are ridiculous, but I don't see the point in covering up the fact that you were wrong by participating in catfights and ignoring the giant gaping holes in your logic. It's also not good to completely ignore questions asked directly of you.

Neither do I see the point in other posters doing nothing but trying to start flamewars.

You are a "global moderator" on a well known website. You know the function of this medium we call an "electronic bulletin board" is to allow people to post items for others to read when they get a chance.

I ignored nothing. I happened to be tied up with something of real importance and could not post.

You people are growing exponentially childish in your assumptions.

EDIT: Please humor me and tell me what goal-posts I defined, please.
post #75 of 128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
You are being extremely dishonest, or you are just choosing to assimilate only what you want. I contend that Anti-US sentiment trumps most alliances in that region right now. That means, to me, that you could easily see alliances between former enemies.

That's how I explain it. Stop acting the ass.

But it doesn't explain it.

If anti-US sentiment trumps anything else (and that's a very big if - one I do not believe for a minute) then why are Syria arresting these Saudi fighters and shipping them out to the coalition ?

Why co-operate with US outsourced torture ?

The fact is that whatever the anti-US feeling in the region at street level, the governments are the ones who make decisions - and those decisions are pragmatic. It is not an emotional issue - especially when you have the US military camped on your doorstep and your name on a list of evildoers.

Btw - re sniping and jabbing: if people continually enter debates and then refuse to discuss or discuss from a position of willful blindness, some people just say 'what's the point' and that's when it all deteriorates.

Because really, what is the point if facts mean nothing here ? There's no learning element.
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post #76 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
But it doesn't explain it.

If anti-US sentiment trumps anything else (and that's a very big if - one I do not believe for a minute) then why are Syria arresting these Saudi fighters and shipping them out to the coalition ?

Why co-operate with US outsourced torture ?

The fact is that whatever the anti-US feeling in the region at street level, the governments are the ones who make decisions - and those decisions are pragmatic. It is not an emotional issue - especially when you have the US military camped on your doorstep and your name on a list of evildoers.

Btw - re sniping and jabbing: if people continually enter debates and then refuse to discuss or discuss from a position of willful blindness, some people just say 'what's the point' and that's when it all deteriorates.

Because really, what is the point if facts mean nothing here ? There's no learning element.

I don't suppose Syria would extend token measures to create a smokescreen for the benefit of those with low testicular fortitude?

No, that would never happen.
post #77 of 128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I don't suppose Syria would extend token measures to create a smokescreen for the benefit of those with low testicular fortitude?

No, that would never happen.

And this smokescreen would involve what exactly - shipping in thousands of Saudi Jihadis so they could arrest them and ship them out again ?
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post #78 of 128
Everyone:

Stop with the off-topic nattering immediately.

Naples X:

Quote:
You are a "global moderator" on a well known website. You know the function of this medium we call an "electronic bulletin board" is to allow people to post items for others to read when they get a chance.

Ok.

Quote:
I ignored nothing. I happened to be tied up with something of real importance and could not post.

You can post now, so why not address the responses to the articles you posted?

Why not answer the following questions that were asked directly to you:
If Syria has caught them, how are they also sending them?

In your article it shows Saudi Arabians also coming into Iraq. Is Saudi Arabia on your list of aggressors? If not, why?


Quote:
EDIT: Please humor me and tell me what goal-posts I defined, please.

From:
(Iran & Syria) Sending forces against US forces is aggression. Please tell me how it's not.

To:
I contend that Anti-US sentiment trumps most alliances in that region right now. That means, to me, that you could easily see alliances between former enemies.

That's a really huge shift in goalposts.

Quote:
I don't suppose Syria would extend token measures to create a smokescreen for the benefit of those with low testicular fortitude?

They might, but you quoted US military and intelligence saying that Syria and Iran really don't factor into it in any significant way. So how do you reconcile your supposition against the US military and intelligence officials who disagree with you?
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post #79 of 128
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Why not answer the following questions that were asked directly to you:
If Syria has caught them, how are they also sending them?

Asinine and juvenile question. Can you really blame me for not answering this one?

Fine. Syria has caught supposed insurgents that have come from SA. That does not exclude the possibility even likelihood that they are turning the other way so that Syrians could enter Iraq. I don't know how you or anyone can go from the fact they are catching Saudis to they are therefore catching everyone or even trying for that matter.

Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
In your article it shows Saudi Arabians also coming into Iraq. Is Saudi Arabia on your list of aggressors? If not, why?[/B]

Well, that is an awful black and white approach for an enlightened and nuanced "progressive". The difference between the SA Govmt. and Iran/Stria Govmt. is that SA did not declare an alliance AGAINST the US. Let's be honest here, please.

Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
From:
(Iran & Syria) Sending forces against US forces is aggression. Please tell me how it's not.

To:
I contend that Anti-US sentiment trumps most alliances in that region right now. That means, to me, that you could easily see alliances between former enemies.

That's a really huge shift in goalposts.

You declared them goal posts, not me. And besides that, you are taking two replies to separate posts from different points in a linear conversation, comparing them without context to try to make it seem I am contradicting myself. I know that is a favored distraction technique among "progressives" but lets attempt to be honest here.

Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
[BThey might, but you quoted US military and intelligence saying that Syria and Iran really don't factor into it in any significant way. So how do you reconcile your supposition against the US military and intelligence officials who disagree with you? [/B]

How often do the words military and intelligence really fit together? Just joking. They may have their reasons not show their hand, perhaps?
post #80 of 128
These reports are critical of Bush and they are on the interent so they must be true.
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Moe has left the building
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