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"Great PowerPC products in the pipeline."

post #1 of 173
Thread Starter 
To quote Steve Jobs during today's keynote address:

Quote:
Now, this is not going to be a transition that happens overnight. It's going to happen over a period of a few years. Again, we've got great products right now. And we've got some great PowerPC products in the pipeline yet to be introduced.

Is this why we haven't seen an iBook revision? Was the iBook revision preempted by the Intel for Mac announcement so that iBooks could prove that there's still life left to Apple's product line until Intel?

What could these new great PowerPC products be? When do you think they will materialize?

Is an iBook speedbump a *great* PowerPC product? A G5 iMac revision? With what? Hotter 970FX's?

Discuss.
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You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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post #2 of 173
Speed bumps and revisions I suspect.
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*Powerbook G4 12" - 1.5 GHZ
*iMac Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHZ (Mid 2007), *Apple 20-inch Cinema Display (Aluminium)
*iPhone 4S, Airport Extreme (2011) *MacBook Air 11-inch (Late 2010)
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post #3 of 173
I bet the MP will still make an appearance.
post #4 of 173
Tomorrow is Tuesday.
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Desktop Mac: 2.0GHz iMac Core Duo
Laptop Mac: 1.5GHz PowerBook G4
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post #5 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
I bet the MP will still make an appearance.

I don't think so. Apple will want to bump the existing lines just enough to keep people buying, but not so much that performance will increase too much relative to existing Power Macs and people start to question the need to switch to Intel all over again.
post #6 of 173
Yeah I think Jobs repeated this at least twice.

Gotta keep sales of PowerPC Mac going between now and 2006, I guess.
post #7 of 173
I'm still hoping for a Powerbook G5.

But the reality seems to be a 1.8 GHz 7448 Powerbook G4 in August or so. Whence that happens, iBooks can be upgraded to 1.5 GHz G4s. These are essentially cheap, near zero cost bin swaps.

I'm still expecting a 970mp PowerMac G5 as well where the 970mp is a drop in replacement for the 970fx board. 50/50 on the possibility of PCIe making it onto the board though.
post #8 of 173
isn't the first "powerpc product" really the $999 3.6gHz mactel transition kit?
in the keynote, jobs infers that the development hardware is just a board
that fits inside the g5 chassis, using existing power and peripherals. no?
post #9 of 173
Quote:
I don't think so. Apple will want to bump the existing lines just enough to keep people buying, but not so much that performance will increase too much relative to existing Power Macs and people start to question the need to switch to Intel all over again.

The decision has been made. That's it. Apple needs to do whatever the hell it can to convince people to buy PowerPC Macs.

I, personally, think someone has to drop big coin on a PowerPC PowerMac at this point without a significant upgrade or price drop very soon.

To sell everyone on switching to Intel Jobs had to knife the PowerPC. It worked, most of us believed it a long ass time ago (though I had no freaking inkling that something like this would actually happen, I still feel like I'm in bizarro world).

I really don't see how they can sell a dual 2.7ghz PowerMac for $3k with a straight face at this point.

"This line sucks and we're replacing it... but... you know, buy it until the new stuff comes out anyway. Thanks."
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post #10 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by retiarius
isn't the first "powerpc product" really the $999 3.6gHz mactel transition kit?
in the keynote, jobs infers that the development hardware is just a board
that fits inside the g5 chassis, using existing power and peripherals. no?

No. It has a Pentium 4 inside it, therefore it's not a PowerPC product. It's also a development machine, not a consumer product.
post #11 of 173
the powermacs still blow away most pcs for its price range...just the future looked gloomy with ibm
post #12 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by FotNS
I don't think so. Apple will want to bump the existing lines just enough to keep people buying, but not so much that performance will increase too much relative to existing Power Macs and people start to question the need to switch to Intel all over again.

Don't be a silly.
post #13 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by frawgz
No. It has a Pentium 4 inside it, therefore it's not a PowerPC product. It's also a development machine, not a consumer product.

granted, but if that's the physical form it takes, current g5 owners
don't need to ditch existing gear next year --
just do a board swap when the bugs are shaken out.
post #14 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by cj171
the powermacs still blow away most pcs for its price range...just the future looked gloomy with ibm

This could not be further from being true.

Let's take the top-end G5 completely stock.
Dual 2.7ghz G5
512MB PC3200 RAM
250GB SATA HD
Radeon 9650 256MB
Dual-Layer DVD-burner (16x)
$2999

Let's take the Alienware Aurora 7500
Athlon64 3800+
1GB PC3200 RAM
250GB SATA HD
Dual nVidia 6800 GT (PCI-Express) w/ SLI
Dual-Layer DVD-burner (16x)
$2991

Apple ties on the HD and DVD-Burner, and loses on everything else. Loses absolutely ridiculously embarrassingly huge on the video card situation as well.
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post #15 of 173
I was referring to some of the performance competitions...that one linux vs mac one recently comparing high end linux systems with a g5 in workstation and server uses, in workstation uses, the g5 did much better
post #16 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
TDual 2.7ghz G5

Let's take the Alienware Aurora 7500
Athlon64 3800+

Apple ties on the HD and DVD-Burner, and loses on everything else. Loses absolutely ridiculously embarrassingly huge on the video card situation as well.

A G5 and an Athlon 64 are for the most part equal clock to clock. IE, a 2.5 GHz 970fx = 2.5 GHz Athlon 64.

Of all the computers you chose to compare, the dual 2.7 GHz is the most competitive price/performance wise. It's about at parity short of unique things like SLI. Game performance goes w/o saying. Content creation they are about equal.

The low end and laptops, however, are embarrassing.
post #17 of 173
indeed...

stevie? how bout some new laptops tomorrow? gotta catch those grads
post #18 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
I bet the MP will still make an appearance.

They've got three years to do it. Maybe, just maybe, IBM will provide it before then.

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     197619842014  

     Where were you when the hammer flew?  

 

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post #19 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat

I really don't see how they can sell a dual 2.7ghz PowerMac for $3k with a straight face at this point.

Do you think Apple's pricing will be much different with an Intel chip? I don't. Maybe a hundred dollars less but not much more.

Of course, people will compare a new Intel-based Mac and expect it to be comparable in price to say a Dell. But I'm guessing, we'll still be paying a premium to own a Mac. Not saying it's right...but some things just don't change.
post #20 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
I really don't see how they can sell a dual 2.7ghz PowerMac for $3k with a straight face at this point.

"This line sucks and we're replacing it... but... you know, buy it until the new stuff comes out anyway. Thanks."


Yes, I am in this situation, I want to update to the fastest Mac available. But pay $3k seems to harsh and stupid. And the problem is, I am tired of waiting.
So now I am totally lost. Hopefully price cuts will follow very soon.
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post #21 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by gugy
Yes, I am in this situation, I want to update to the fastest Mac available. But pay $3k seems to harsh and stupid. And the problem is, I am tired of waiting.
So now I am totally lost. Hopefully price cuts will follow very soon.

eBay... prices gotta start fallin' hard and fast on G5 machines.
post #22 of 173
It'll be hard to swallow paying extra for an Intel iMac AIO with a non-upgradable display and graphics card when a Dell with the exact same hardware is cheaper. I love OS X, but that is quite a premium for the OS.
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"Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

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post #23 of 173
I think the MP is coming. IBM is still contracted to produce for Apple. Who knows what the consequences are for defaulting on the contract? Presumably IBM is/has been working on the PPC for Apple, just not fast enough. So I think there's more than a mere speed bump to come along in the Power Mac line. No, we're not gonna see a G6. As for the laptops, a speedbump or two is probably all we're gonna get.
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post #24 of 173
I expect we'll see the 970MP appear as the last major PowerPC-base PowerMac. Either in the fall or Jan '06. How this compares to the first of the Intel-based PowerMacs shouldn't be an issue as Intel already has dual cores out (at least in vapourware form), and will have the new cores in that form from the get-go.

I'm not holding my breath for G5-class PowerBooks though. That is probably the first place Apple wants to deploy the Intel chips (that and the iMac & mini).
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post #25 of 173
On one hand, I for one salute the decision to move over to Intel. It's gonna be a rocky two years but Apple will survive the transition IF:

DROP PRICES ACCORDINGLY ACROSS THE ENTIRE COMPUTER PRODUCT LINE NOW. As in NOW. Not a few months from now. NOW. Just as a quick off the cuff; $500 to $700 off the top-of-the-line G5 tower. Maybe $150 off the Mini.

This is the arrogant part of S. Jobs and Co. Also a slap to the face of the so-called Mac faithfull (many of you...). This is the wake up call to all of Mac's user base that still feel Apple is some kind of warm and fuzzy love-fest.

You know, I love my Mac...

Anyway, I'm not out to bash. If they lower their prices they can still sell G5 machines. Even G4 speed bumped Powerbooks will still sell. Lower the price Apple...
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You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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post #26 of 173
Dual core P4's are not vapourware, you can walk into a shop and buy a Pentium D and i955 motherboard right now (at least in New Zealand you can) but of course you will need to get a second mortgage for it....
I think we will see the 970MP in a Powermac remember Jobs said the transistion would not be complete until 2007...
Idiot, slow down....

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Idiot, slow down....

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post #27 of 173
some speed bumps tomorrow would let everyone know theyre still serious about getting some new ppc hardware out the door
post #28 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Thereubster
Dual core P4's are not vapourware, you can walk into a shop and buy a Pentium D and i955 motherboard right now (at least in New Zealand you can) but of course you will need to get a second mortgage for it....
I think we will see the 970MP in a Powermac remember Jobs said the transistion would not be complete until 2007...

Yes, I should have called them "rare-ware" instead. They are out there, but not tremendously common yet.
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post #29 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by hardhead
On one hand, I for one salute the decision to move over to Intel. It's gonna be a rocky two years but Apple will survive the transition IF:

DROP PRICES ACCORDINGLY ACROSS THE ENTIRE COMPUTER PRODUCT LINE NOW. As in NOW. Not a few months from now. NOW. Just as a quick off the cuff; $500 to $700 off the top-of-the-line G5 tower. Maybe $150 off the Mini.

This is the arrogant part of S. Jobs and Co. Also a slap to the face of the so-called Mac faithfull (many of you...). This is the wake up call to all of Mac's user base that still feel Apple is some kind of warm and fuzzy love-fest.

You know, I love my Mac...

Anyway, I'm not out to bash. If they lower their prices they can still sell G5 machines. Even G4 speed bumped Powerbooks will still sell. Lower the price Apple...

That's the only reason I am holding off to buy a Powermac 2.7 now. Prices need to drop to give some relief to a machine that should be upgraded like that a year ago.
Drop prices NOW!
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post #30 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by hardhead
DROP PRICES ACCORDINGLY ACROSS THE ENTIRE COMPUTER PRODUCT LINE NOW. As in NOW. Not a few months from now. NOW. Just as a quick off the cuff; $500 to $700 off the top-of-the-line G5 tower. Maybe $150 off the Mini.
If they lower their prices they can still sell G5 machines. Even G4 speed bumped Powerbooks will still sell. Lower the price Apple...

I am in such total agreement here. Besides being a smart business move, it would essentially be an act of good faith.
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post #31 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by surfacenuts
I am in such total agreement here. Besides being a smart business move, it would essentially be an of good faith.

Without a major price move, I don't think Apple survives until the transition. Speed bumps do not equal great new product, and I don't see much beyond that on the horizon.
post #32 of 173


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post #33 of 173
Why do people think that prices will drop once Apple starts using Pentiums? If anything, I think they will increase. According to an analysis I saw Apple's cost for the G5 is about half of what Dell et al pay for Pentiums. Where's the love?
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post #34 of 173
You know, honestly, I see this as a perfect time for consumers to buy iBooks or Mac minis once they're upgraded (I assume) later this year. Both products are cheap and will easily last until the Intel Macs come out. As long as someone doesn't have a pressing need for a lot of power, iBooks and Mac minis will work great as "holdover" computers until the Intel switch. For those who *do* need the power, they're going to buy the fastest Apple hardware, anyway, regardless of whether it will continue to have software written for it for five more years or fifty more years.

Hell, even for "pro-sumers," this wouldn't be a bad idea. I do page layout and graphics work for my publishing company using Photoshop and InDesign on a 12" 1 GHz Powerbook and a 20" monitor. Once the new Mac mini comes out, I plan on getting one and relaxing for the next year or so... Just gonna wait and see what sorts of updated hardware and software come out for the new Intel Macs. Once Adobe and Microsoft (I'm forced to use Office) are on board with universal binary apps for Apple's Intel OS X, I'll decide whether to keep my current hardware or upgrade to the new Intel-powered stuff. Let me tell you how much of a relief it was to see both Adobe and Microsoft up on stage with Jobs... That got rid of a lot of my fears about the switch to Intel.

It seems like so many people are panicking by this switch. The real rub is with the developers. As long as they come along and write these universal binaries, Apple will do fine during the transition. We have all indication that PPC Macs will be supported for at least 4 or 5 years after their run finally ends, so even people buying the very last iteration of PPC Macs will be supported for an appropriately lengthy time after their purchase. Apple's done, in my mind, absolutely everything it can to make this transition seamless. I think they've made the very best of what could have been a terrible situation with what seems to be IBM's lack of dedication to Apple's PPC needs. The fact that Apple's been planning for this potentiality for at least three years is also quite promising. It's good to see honest to goodness foresight from Apple from time to time.

This switch will either crush Apple, or propel it forward. There's massive potential here to gain huge marketshare here, especially when Longhorn comes out and consumers get to compare it with OS X running on similar hardware. Exciting times here, folks. I, for one, can't wait to see how it all turns out.
post #35 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
I bet the MP will still make an appearance.

I fear that the switch to Intel, is the REASON, why we don't see a MP G5. Apple will not do major update in his G5 line, and will focus all his r&d in developping the new computers.

One of the big plus of the deal with Intel, is that Intel is also a mobo and video maker, so they can help a lot Apple.
post #36 of 173
while possibly not as agressive, the reality is Apple does need to keep developing new machines to maintain userbase. In a year's time, maybe they will slack some, but really 2 years is too long for the platform to stagnate for pro users, before the intel hardware comes along.

Also, keep in mind that people will still be buying Pro PPC machines after the Intel machines are released; depends on the industry of course, but as a whole pro users tend to be more conservative where new architectures are of concern. Just look at how long the G4 towers survived after the G5 was released.

One thing of concern, was that there was no mention of Rosetta for PPC. So presumably, there is a chance that Applications will be coded for the Intellic OS X and neglected for PPC. I can see this happening in the case of vector instructions, unless Apple can come up with a code library which compiles for the appropriate vector instruction set.

I don't really envy Apple's compiler programmers. seems more and more that the onus will be on them for efficient code.
post #37 of 173
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino23
Why do people think that prices will drop once Apple starts using Pentiums? If anything, I think they will increase. According to an analysis I saw Apple's cost for the G5 is about half of what Dell et al pay for Pentiums. Where's the love?

I think Apple will be forced to be more competitive on price - it will be easier for people to compare specs and say the Apple is slower for the same price. Sure, they can charge a slight premium for looks, brand and OSX, but if they are not fairly competitively priced, they won't sell.
post #38 of 173
I wished S.J. had stated something like:
"From now on we have more options than ever
to satisfy our customers. Folks, say welcome to Intel,
from now on they are on board. From now on, we
will deliver the very best and fastes Macs ever.
From now on it doesn't matter if Intel or PPC
is under the hood. We just take the best available.
This spurs competition, right?"

I just can't believe they ditched the PPC once and
for all, leaving NO backdoor open.
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post #39 of 173
Right now I think I'll either wait for G4 upgrades or Macs to go on Blue Light Special and get set up to last a few years. By the time I buy the New IntelMac and the software upgrades to make the IntelMac go as fast as it should, I might as well just go to the dark side. Probably the RDF will bend my brain, but right now it looks like a lot of money to be not that far from where I am today (and possibly facing a lot more problems). Kind of like when OS X came out and everybody and their dog wanted you to pony up for an upgrade to make it work (well). I love OS X, but I wound up spending a lot of money just to get all the Apps I already owned on board. And now here we are again.
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post #40 of 173
I always thought there is a tremendous difference in coding for PPC and x86. Everyone here on the board said there is no way to go Intel. Now S. J. says we will get x86 and PPC code simultaneously. How will they do the code for altivec and mms?
I'm so confused.
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