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The "To Buy or Not to Buy" Official Thread (merged)

post #1 of 165
Thread Starter 
After the recent announcements, those of us that were waiting for a PB G5 or just plain waiting to buy an Apple are now sitting here not sure of what to do.

So, oh wise ones, what should we do? Buy? Wait a week? A month? Stick with our blue screens? Please help.
post #2 of 165
Ive wanted a Powerbook for so long, yet what they have hasnt been enough for me to drop coin. Now what? Wait till late 2006 ? I hope they can somehow get the pentium-m into a powerbook by Fall.
post #3 of 165
Thread Starter 
I am going to college in July... ART COLLEGE. I want the PB now. Wow. No PB G5 is fine, but don't keep me guessing and waiting Jobs. argh.
post #4 of 165
Same situation here. I was going to buy a Powermac and Powerbook, one this year and the other in first half of next year. I really donĀ“t know what to do now
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post #5 of 165
Well, my fiancee was about to buy her first Mac after a week of virus hell in XP (*with* 2 virus checkers running!), but now she sees no point.

"Wasn't the point of a Mac it isn't a PC? Now they are."

I won't buy a new Mac this year now either, I need to see how Rosetta performs first.

I think Apple just killed a lot of sales.
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post #6 of 165
Thread Starter 
Wow. Screw this. What the heck am I supposed to take to college now? Thanks Jobs. Seriously, if this isn't some type of smokescreen, I may not be ever buying a Mac. This is bull.
post #7 of 165
Well, It's very trick right now.
I was ready to buy a PB G5 today. Now i cannot even consider spending good money on a G4 PB. I think it's suicide.
Now my big question is: buy a top of the line Powermac G5 or a lower end. At least is a G5.
Imac doesn't fit my needs, so what's next?
According to the keynote doesn't seem that we will ever see a PB G5. and also feels that the Powermac is not going to get any upgrade soon.
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post #8 of 165
If you need a new machine, now is the time to buy. No machines will be shipping with intel under the hood for a while, and even when some are they will likely be alongside PPC Macs. At this point, x86 isn't a reason alone to postpone your purchase, in fact waiting may be a waste... unless you're willing to wait for over a year.

Either you want a Mac and Mac OS X or not. My bet is that x86 under the hood won't help until we see Leopard. It may not hurt, but its not a reason to wait. The machines in 2 years will trump current machines no matter what CPU is inside.
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post #9 of 165
I see a tremendous amount of confusion here.

x86 Macs won't be released until a year from now.

Rosetta will ONLY be needed for those apps that did not complete their Xcode recompiles by summer 2006, and only on the NEW x86 Macs. By that time, there could be dual-core Pentiums at 3.8 gHz ready for the towers. And dual-core Pentium M for the notebooks. So if one HAD to run the emulator, it would be at least as fast as your current machine is now.

All other apps will be released as universal binaries, which is directly supported in Mac OS X. So they will run on whatever you buy now, as well as whatever you would buy a year from now. No emulation in either case.

The main problem is that there won't be a substantially faster PowerBook for a year, unless Freescale comes through with something. Nonetheless, if you need it now, buy it now - it will still run the PPC version of everything next year.
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post #10 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackcat
Well, my fiancee was about to buy her first Mac after a week of virus hell in XP (*with* 2 virus checkers running!), but now she sees no point.

"Wasn't the point of a Mac it isn't a PC? Now they are."

I won't buy a new Mac this year now either, I need to see how Rosetta performs first.

I think Apple just killed a lot of sales.

This announcement just killed my planned purchase. Was all set after OS 14.2 or OS 14.3 to buy the top of the line iMac. Now I' m going to wait.
post #11 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Normworld
This announcement just killed my planned purchase. Was all set after OS 14.2 or OS 14.3 to buy the top of the line iMac. Now I' m going to wait.

Sorry about that. Meant Os 10.4.2 or OS 10.4.3
post #12 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Xool
If you need a new machine, now is the time to buy. No machines will be shipping with intel under the hood for a while, and even when some are they will likely be alongside PPC Macs. At this point, x86 isn't a reason alone to postpone your purchase, in fact waiting may be a waste... unless you're willing to wait for over a year.

Either you want a Mac and Mac OS X or not. My bet is that x86 under the hood won't help until we see Leopard. It may not hurt, but its not a reason to wait. The machines in 2 years will trump current machines no matter what CPU is inside.

I'd leave it a few weeks... keep checking the refurb section of the apple store, I think a few people maybe returning recently delivered macs as DOA (or missing manual or some other excuse), you might pick up a bargin.

I completely agree with Xool, if you want Mac/OSX... just do it. todays machines will still be running in 2 years time (my daily use machines are all circa 2000/2001 except... my macMini which is my Television!).
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post #13 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Xool
If you need a new machine, now is the time to buy. No machines will be shipping with intel under the hood for a while, and even when some are they will likely be alongside PPC Macs. At this point, x86 isn't a reason alone to postpone your purchase, in fact waiting may be a waste... unless you're willing to wait for over a year.

Either you want a Mac and Mac OS X or not. My bet is that x86 under the hood won't help until we see Leopard. It may not hurt, but its not a reason to wait. The machines in 2 years will trump current machines no matter what CPU is inside.


I want everyone to read this post again. We all know that Macs 1 year from now would be better and somehow different in the technology they use, whether it is Intel chips or PPC. So they are going to be a little more different than the usual evolution. This has nothing to do with current buying trends. Maybe a month before next WWDC if they still haven't been released you may consider waiting. IF you are waiting fro a year or more than you either don't need a new computer or your just being silly.

Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need....
post #14 of 165
Well I'm certainly not going to be buying anything in the near future. I was going to buy a Powerbook and my girlfriend was going to buy my iBook G3. The problem we're going to have here is that while there is a binary translator to go from PPC to x86, there isn't one going the other way. So if you have a PPC machine now, in a few years, you probably won't be able to get software compiled for it. With the M68K to PPC transition, there were FAT binaries available for a while, but after a few years, developers stopped compiling for M68K, and so if you had one of those machines, it was no good anymore.
post #15 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by unixguru
... but after a few years, developers stopped compiling for M68K, and so if you had one of those machines, it was no good anymore.

Somehow I don't beleive that an old iBook will be your best choice for running new software in a few years from now, Intel or no Intel.

I use most of my Macs for about 5 to 7 years, but I really don't expect the latest and greatest software to run on my Mac "WELL" for more than 3 or 4 years.
post #16 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need. Buy when you need....

That's usually my advice, but this time I think it is wrong. Apple just announced that they are orphaning this whole architecture in 18 months. I've been sucked in too many times by promises of support into the future and fast emulation. If you have even a decent Mac, I can't see not waiting till this time next year and seeing how things play out.

Ask how many people that bought Yikes machines if they wished they had waited six months. This seems comparable.
post #17 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackcat
Well, my fiancee was about to buy her first Mac after a week of virus hell in XP (*with* 2 virus checkers running!), but now she sees no point.

"Wasn't the point of a Mac it isn't a PC? Now they are."

No, no they're not. Security against viruses has absolutely nothing to do with processors. It's all about the OS, and OS X will still be the most secure consumer OS out there.

I have been planning on buying a G5 iMac within the next couple months, and I still plan on doing so, now that I've read everything over. It seems Apple is doing what it can to make sure PPC owners aren't left in the dust, and I don't use any of the kinds of applications that are more likely to suffer problems due to the transition.
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post #18 of 165
i want a mac mini, have the cash FINALLY and now what do i do? I wanted to get it to start using this summer. are we better off buying it now with the old processor or wait for the intels
post #19 of 165
It seems to me that the x86 changeover is just going to be the CPU changing - there'll be no difference between apps on either PPC or x86, except mebbe in terms of a little speed (which could arguably go either way). They'll probably keep pretty much the same product designs etc., just changing the CPU. One day iMacs will use PPC, the next x86. It sounds like they haven't ruled out continuing using PPC if they start running faster, so mixed CPUs in product lines may start appearing.

I can't see Apple dropping support for PPC any time in the near future, and if they eventually do so most macs out there will be x86's. And at that point it'll be the equivalent of not being able to run Mac OS X on Lisa's.

So I'll echo the "buy it when you need it" statement. Technology always moves on; if you wait longer, then you will get more bang for your buck, but you can't use it now...
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post #20 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by alliancep.s.i
i want a mac mini, have the cash FINALLY and now what do i do? I wanted to get it to start using this summer. are we better off buying it now with the old processor or wait for the intels

Mac Mini is nice my wifey has one but if you want Juice.... what do you want style or power?
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post #21 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Mac Mini is nice my wifey has one but if you want Juice.... what do you want style or power?

its pretty much the only mac i can afford so it's fine. i will put it through a lot however
post #22 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
That's usually my advice, but this time I think it is wrong. Apple just announced that they are orphaning this whole architecture in 18 months. I've been sucked in too many times by promises of support into the future and fast emulation. If you have even a decent Mac, I can't see not waiting till this time next year and seeing how things play out.

Ask how many people that bought Yikes machines if they wished they had waited six months. This seems comparable.

This strikes me as flat-out wrong. What has Apple said that makes you think PPC will be "orphaned" in a year and a half?

Firstly, it's going to be about 30 months from now, not 18, that Apple will stop selling PPC machines.

Secondly, it appears that the only machines that will start their transition in 12 months are G4 machines. Apple didn't explicitly say that but that's how I put 2 and 2 together.

Thirdly, they stated that their developer tools are designed so that applications will compile for both PPC and x86. That suggests that applications made three years from now are likely to run as well as ever on PPC architecture.

The important point in all of this is that Apple is not moving away from OS X. Rather, they've made it dual-platform and have provided the means for applications to be so, too.
post #23 of 165
Apple really should have made it clearer what this is going to mean for owners of current PPC Macs and anyone who buys one between now and the transition date.

I think everything will be fine though
post #24 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Hudson1
This strikes me as flat-out wrong. What has Apple said that makes you think PPC will be "orphaned" in a year and a half?
...

The important point in all of this is that Apple is not moving away from OS X. Rather, they've made it dual-platform and have provided the means for applications to be so, too.

Well, if they'd announced plans to continue with a two-platfor system I'd be with you. But they have said they are moving the platform completely over to Intel. Past history with Apple and other computer manufacturers does not leave me confident about the future development on a platform you plan to stop producing.

From the press release "Apple plans to move lower-end computers such as the Mac Mini to Intel chips in mid-2006 and higher-end models such as the Power Mac in mid-2007." So I guess I should have said two years--still, it's obvious where Apple is putting its development resources, and it's not on the PPC platform.

And orphaned computer is what we called a machine that was no longer being produced--back in the dark ages of computerdom. It didn't mean is stopped working, just that it wasn't going to grow anymore. That certainly seems the case with PPC macs.
post #25 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Normworld
This announcement just killed my planned purchase. Was all set after OS 14.2 or OS 14.3 to buy the top of the line iMac. Now I' m going to wait.

Me too - all ready to buy my first laptop... a Powerbook. I've never owned an Apple but have wanted one for a few years. I finally decide to buy one and two weeks later this happens. Now I have to wait for at least a year to get it... oh well. This is going to KILL me, though - I was so excited!

I wasn't going to drop 2 grand on an "old", slow G4 so I was waiting for a Powerbook G5. That is why I'm now going to wait...sigh.
post #26 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by alliancep.s.i
i want a mac mini, have the cash FINALLY and now what do i do? I wanted to get it to start using this summer. are we better off buying it now with the old processor or wait for the intels

Buy the mini. It'll last you three or four years before you would want a new machine anyway. And, in 3 years, they'll have worked out the bugs in the transition & OS, so you'll have a legit reason to upgrade. Plus, your monitor, keyboard, etc. will all move up to the new machine then, too.

I'd say anyone who's in the market for a mini or iMac should go ahead and buy now. It's the PowerMac and laptop crowd that should hold off for a while...
post #27 of 165
WAIT.
IBL!
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IBL!
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post #28 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by ryanschmidt
Wow. Screw this. What the heck am I supposed to take to college now? Thanks Jobs. Seriously, if this isn't some type of smokescreen, I may not be ever buying a Mac. This is bull.

Er, a current PowerBook? My soon-to-be wife is a professor at an Art/Design school, and, up until last February, used a 12" iBook 700/G3 for all her design work (InDesign, Dreamweaver, light After Effects, Photoshop, Flash). She now has a 17" PowerBook.

A current PowerBook is fine for 2D graphic design. If you're doing Maya, you'd need a tower anyway (to run it well). If you're doing Motion, you'd need a G5 anyway (to run it well).

It's best that the Intel switch is first for G4 based machines (if I've read all of this correctly); they are the ones that need the most aid in speed. I have a Dual 800 G4 that's almost 4 years old. Am I going to wait till 2007 to wait for an Intel PowerMac? Hell no. A 2.7 G5 will more than hold its own for what I need for the next four years.

It's not as if next June, Apple will be coming out with an 8Ghz Pentium 7 iBook.
post #29 of 165
I have a 933MHz PowerMac G4 with 1.5GB RAM and a 120GB drive and it's just fine. I'm waiting until I can get a x86 Mac or hopefully I can build one myself.

After thinking about this and letting it sink in, this isn't as bad as it feels. In fact it may be the best thing to happen to the Mac in a long time. I use the Mac for the MacOS, no neccessarily for the architecture.
post #30 of 165
would you kids stop worrying? it's gonna be at least two years. also, apple is telling developers to make the "universal" builds of their software, bundling PPC and x86 ala FatBinaries. PPC will be relevant for at least 4 years. Apple knows its computers stay in use longer than and wintels, I know they wouldnt take the risk of alienating their cult fanbase by ditching support.

buy now or soon!
post #31 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by xflare
Apple really should have made it clearer what this is going to mean for owners of current PPC Macs and anyone who buys one between now and the transition date.

I think everything will be fine though

Actually, why should an announcement at the WWDC *have* to make anything clear to consumers? This show isn't and shouldn't be about consumers.
post #32 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by cj171
would you kids stop worrying? it's gonna be at least two years. also, apple is telling developers to make the "universal" builds of their software, bundling PPC and x86 ala FatBinaries. PPC will be relevant for at least 4 years. Apple knows its computers stay in use longer than and wintels, I know they wouldnt take the risk of alienating their cult fanbase by ditching support.

I'm not buying a PPC based mac (unless Apple lowers prices by 40 to 60%) because as of today, PPC based macs are marked for obsoletion. And I can't imagine most developers writing two sets of code knowing this.

As of today, I bet there will be an increase in PPC based macs on ebay and also at the same time, a large and sustained drop in all mac computer sales.

(I bet anything that Gates loves this stupid move by Apple).
post #33 of 165
See the thing is, I have been holding out for something new in Apple's portable line, to put it on the level with centrinos in terms of speed and battery life. Well turns out, I may get that, but the problem is having to wait so long. I dont want a g4 now anymore than I did a month ago. I want something new, but now it is almost certain it will be at least a year because apple isnt going to release a big step technology when they plan to transition in a year.
post #34 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by bostongeek
Actually, why should an announcement at the WWDC *have* to make anything clear to consumers? This show isn't and shouldn't be about consumers.

It didn't have to. Had Jobs handled it differently it would just show that they are ready to release something they have been working on for quite some time. But that wasn't how it was presented. It was presented as the end of the line for the PPC. How often do you use OS9 or a pre-PPC Mac? That is the comparison he drew to the current crop of Macintosh's. This isn't going to make people rush out and buy the systems.

Watching the video, I'm struck by how quiet all the developers are when this is announced. They don't see this as a big win, but a lot of work. Work that their bosses may not pay for them to do.
post #35 of 165
No way I'm buying a mac now. Sad really, took me awhile to save enough money for what I wanted.
post #36 of 165
i'm going into college and i've only got a g3 700mhz ibook...i don't think it'll last...so either i'll go for a cheap ibook g4 to last me until the intels come out...or i'll go for a decent imac g5 because those should be quite good still, even when the intels come out
post #37 of 165
I've gotta tell you that I am not as worried about this as I was last night. The support from the audience was tentative at worst. It seemed pretty upbeat if you ask me. You've gotta realize that this is all new to them (and us), and they are taking it all in.

Having had some time to chew on it, I look at it as a smooth transition. If I had to equate it, I would say this is like when you driving down a highway, and the roadcrews have just laid down a fresh stretch of new pavement. I think the thing we were worried about was how big the bump would be from the old pavement to the new. I didn't notice much of a bump, did you?

I think the sales of PowerPC Macs will stay strong...there really isn't a need to abandon the Mac for a year because Intel is coming. If you watched the demo, it was clear that software for the time being is going to be produced for both PPC and x86 Macs, and at the same time, older PPC native software will run with a minor performance hit through Rosetta translation.

Lastly, I interpreted Jobs to say that by this time next year, Intel Macs would be on the market. So the optimist in me thinks we may see some products in at the San Fran Mac World? It seemed as though a lot of the work on the Intel side was strictly based on making applications x86 native, and not Apple/Mac OS Applications, which are already ported.

Don't get me wrong...there's always a bit of worry, but I am much more at ease now than I was last night. I can't wait! This should open Apple up to a whole slew of new product design innovations, especially with the portables/notebooks. It will probably free Apple from having to wait for PPC manufacturers for key processors, as the Intel stuff seems to come out of the gate much quicker and at a much more rapid pace.
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post #38 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Kesh
I'd say anyone who's in the market for a mini or iMac should go ahead and buy now. It's the PowerMac and laptop crowd that should hold off for a while...

Can you tell me why the Powermac and laptop crowd should wait?
Powermac were just upgraded. Steve did not give any hope of a PB G5 to ever happen. IBM looks stuck on their current G5 models (just look at the minor Powermac upgrade). So I don't see any significant upgrade coming until probably middle or end of next year.
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post #39 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by cj171
i'm going into college and i've only got a g3 700mhz ibook...i don't think it'll last...so either i'll go for a cheap ibook g4 to last me until the intels come out...or i'll go for a decent imac g5 because those should be quite good still, even when the intels come out

That's my logic exactly.8)
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post #40 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by sc_markt
I'm not buying a PPC based mac (unless Apple lowers prices by 40 to 60%) because as of today, PPC based macs are marked for obsoletion. And I can't imagine most developers writing two sets of code knowing this.

As of today, I bet there will be an increase in PPC based macs on ebay and also at the same time, a large and sustained drop in all mac computer sales.

(I bet anything that Gates loves this stupid move by Apple).

On the contrary, i bet Bill Gates shat a brick today (although he probably already knew), with OS X running on x86, Apple is a step closer to being a head on competitor to Microsoft. If Gates is afraid of anything, it's competition.
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