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The "To Buy or Not to Buy" Official Thread (merged) - Page 4

post #121 of 165
OK, I thought you said to hold off for a powerful upgrade to the G5 Powermac.
Unfortunately we are not going to see that until Intel kicks in. The IBM G5 probably will be no more powerful than 3.2. too bad. That's why i think in the long run the Intel move is a good thing.
Also, I believe Imacs and Powermacs will be the last ones to have the Intel chip on it.
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post #122 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by gugy
Also, I believe Imacs and Powermacs will be the last ones to have the Intel chip on it.

I agree on that one. The way I see it, what Apple really wants out of this deal is a better set of processors for their portables and consumer desktops. Getting a good path for their PowerMacs is a bonus, but...

In my mind, it's all about Centrino "Napa," which will be coming out around the timeframe Jobs gave us. Low-wattage, low-heat, integrated chipset, designed for portables and slimline desktops. So, I expect the laptops and mini to be the first ones runnnig Intel, followed by the PowerMacs and iMacs.

The eMac will be the last machine running PPC, before it fades out completely. Thank god.
post #123 of 165
I think it will go in this order:

Mini
iBook
iMac / eMac
PowerBook
Powermac
iPod
post #124 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by alliancep.s.i
i want a mac mini, have the cash FINALLY and now what do i do? I wanted to get it to start using this summer. are we better off buying it now with the old processor or wait for the intels

I was going to buy the next revision myself, now I am just going to hold onto my iMac G3400 until next year.

Apple really screwed this up. It wouldn't have been a bad move if the Intel Macs were coming out in a few months, but a whole year? Thats just stupid. Mac sales are going to tumble.
post #125 of 165
i dont know if i believe sales will be affected that much. at my design shop i had several standard business class customers say to me, "did you hear about Apple and intel? thats cool" (in the vernacular) When i mentioned the new machines could boot windows, they wanted one. I am starting to think that us lunatics hear at AI, and the technical press in general, dont have as huge an impact on the average joe buying a computer as i once thought. If a product is hot, (Ipod for example) people will buy it even in the face of cheaper options or more equiped compitition. It wouldnt surprise me if some sales segments spiked up, but maybe i am a terminal optimist.
post #126 of 165
I see all these posts about everyone saying, "well, I'm gonna wait until they come out." This is exactly like the multicore discussions by people posting on G3/350s or something. If you wanted/needed it sunday, GET IT!

If you get a Mac now:
Enjoy thousands of choices for apps
Well optimized
Will have software for it for atleast 4-5 years
Apple will develop for the PPC for a long time (OSX and pro apps, etc)

(by the time it cant run the software you want in 2010, it couldnt anyway because it would be too slow. Even if we didnt go intel.)

If companies want to port to intel-mac, they're have to use xcode and will port it to the PPC too. Why wouldnt they? Ignoring the large PPC base would be suicide. Thus we will enjoy FAT binaries for a very long time.

Now if you buy a Mactel in 2006:

You lose a whole year of improved productivity
The joy of testing revision A products
Some of your existing apps will have to be run slowly under rosseta
post #127 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by mikenap
i dont know if i believe sales will be affected that much. at my design shop i had several standard business class customers say to me, "did you hear about Apple and intel? thats cool" (in the vernacular) When i mentioned the new machines could boot windows, they wanted one. I am starting to think that us lunatics hear at AI, and the technical press in general, dont have as huge an impact on the average joe buying a computer as i once thought. If a product is hot, (Ipod for example) people will buy it even in the face of cheaper options or more equiped compitition. It wouldnt surprise me if some sales segments spiked up, but maybe i am a terminal optimist.

Fine, but what about sales right now? Thats the problem.
post #128 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Fine, but what about sales right now? Thats the problem.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...104383-9681678

What about them? 15 of the top 25 on Amazon - two Powermac models there too!
post #129 of 165
I think most people were waiting for some sort of Powerbook announcement, and maybe they're referring to waiting for Updated PBooks in some form or another.

But I agree, buying the first generation of these new machines would be a pretty foolish thing to do.
post #130 of 165
*puts on his harlequin suit*
post #131 of 165
I was just playing around with a reason why all this might turn out just fine.

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And they said that Macs were too expensive!
post #132 of 165
Bunch of whiners... Get real.
Didn't any of you watch the keynote?

I'm buying a Dual 2.7PM now. It's going to be two years before rev1 of the Pro MacTel units come out. I'm not going to be the first transition guinea pig on the block. I'll use the Dual 2.7 till the transition "wrinkles" get ironed out, which will probably be three years from now, just in time for rev2. Steve has given us about as smooth a transition period that one could ask for. Is anybody running apps (that haven't been upgraded) from three years ago? I doubt it.

"It's not having what you want... It's wanting what you've got"
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post #133 of 165
I wonder if they will be doing another bump in the Powermacs or not? 2 years seems pretty long to wait for the intel version.
post #134 of 165
Quote:
"It's not having what you want... It's wanting what you've got"

-- ikDigital

This is true wisdom.... I agree that the best course is probably to attempt to visualize what might be there one day, but look at what you have now, what your needs are, and see what can best serve them. I've finally got evertything on G4s, was hoping to see G5s running Tiger by the end of the year; well, i might still buy that G5 dual (2.3 for me), but I confess it is still HUGE for a Cube man.
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post #135 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
Sorry, but Apple released it to the press. That means consumers and investors have got to be kept informed. Since abandoning the summer MacWord, WWDC is the only chance we usually have to hear from Apple, and they've used to launch such non-Developer stuff as monitors, for heavens sake.

Shut up and trust the company is not a compelling argument.

Monitors are non developer? Until this year they only worked on 1 machine. And that was a POWERMAC... which was considered a developer / professional machine. (they could work on pc's too, but who in their right mind would pay a 600 dollar premium).

On top of that, WWDC is NOT the only chance to announce summer products... have you heard of Macworld Tokyo? Or perhaps the bigger one... Macworld Paris??? Yes these expos do exist and apple makes big announcements at these places. Save your "they dropped macworld new york" excuse... that excuse has been used numerous times and means nothing. Apple has plenty of chances to make big announcements.

What do you mean they released it to the press? No shit sherlock. Of course they released it to the press. That's a pretty big announcement to keep under wraps. Apple has probably got more hits on their page in one day since the original iMac was posted. This isn't something apple could have kept under wraps when telling developers about it.

 

 

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post #136 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
I wonder if they will be doing another bump in the Powermacs or not? 2 years seems pretty long to wait for the intel version.

I guarantee they will release another (possibly 2) powermacs. Steve said they still have more ppc products in the pipeline. I bet money there is still a 3ghz g5 around the corner. Somehow I'm starting to doubt apple is going to get a dual core version of anything at this point.

Who else would use a 970mp besides apple? Not that many. Perhaps sony and M$ for development machines? IBM needs to be careful how much continued r&d and production it puts into the 970... or else they could end up with a large amount of surplus of these puppies. Apple too needs to be careful about how many chips they order. Or else they could end up with too many as well. I have a feeling the next 2 years will warrant many delays in products... apple waiting till the stock gets low before moderately ordering more chips.

 

 

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post #137 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
I was going to buy the next revision myself, now I am just going to hold onto my iMac G3400 until next year.

Apple really screwed this up. It wouldn't have been a bad move if the Intel Macs were coming out in a few months, but a whole year? Thats just stupid. Mac sales are going to tumble.

That's not stupid at all. This gives developers a WHOLE year to produce intel apps. Lets say intel macs were released two days ago and you bought one. Now you have to put up with nothing but emulation. Sure you can download the immediately ported cocoa apps... but those are pretty worthless compared to big apps like Office, Cinema, Photoshop, Fireworks, BBEdit, Illustrator, Toast, Firefox, etc etc etc. Can you imagine running ALL of those applications in emulation mode? At the same time?

Developers can get the boxes now to convert their apps. I think that is a great opportunity to get this on the road as soon as possible.

No one will be let out to dry by this transition, that's the beauty of it... it really can't be called a transition. It will be completely masked to joe-user. He won't even KNOW that his ppc apps are being emulated. Programmers and wiser users will KNOW its happening but probably won't SEE its happening. Unless you're trying to emulate a program that shouldn't be emulated... like photoshop.

The problem with all this is it was made such a big deal in the press. And joe-user doesn't realize the transition would be masked from him... so he's likely to wait it out. From a developer point of view, this transition is going to be very easy. I'm extremely shocked that apple covered all the bases for this (even though it is apple).

Just relax and pretend to be oblivious about it... if you need a mac now... buy now. If you just bought one in the last few years... wait a year or 2 more.

 

 

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post #138 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
I guarantee they will release another (possibly 2) powermacs. Steve said they still have more ppc products in the pipeline. I bet money there is still a 3ghz g5 around the corner. Somehow I'm starting to doubt apple is going to get a dual core version of anything at this point.

Steve used "yet" twice regarding Powerbook G5s and 3GHz, so if it becomes possible we will get them.
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post #139 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
Monitors are non developer? Until this year they only worked on 1 machine. And that was a POWERMAC... which was considered a developer / professional machine. (they could work on pc's too, but who in their right mind would pay a 600 dollar premium).

On top of that, WWDC is NOT the only chance to announce summer products... have you heard of Macworld Tokyo? Or perhaps the bigger one... Macworld Paris??? Yes these expos do exist and apple makes big announcements at these places. Save your "they dropped macworld new york" excuse... that excuse has been used numerous times and means nothing. Apple has plenty of chances to make big announcements.

What do you mean they released it to the press? No shit sherlock. Of course they released it to the press. That's a pretty big announcement to keep under wraps. Apple has probably got more hits on their page in one day since the original iMac was posted. This isn't something apple could have kept under wraps when telling developers about it.

Look, no need to blow up. I'm just saying that Monitors are generally not considered professional product, since everyone uses them. Also, a lot of small developers who go to these conferences to do business do not have the budget to fly to Tokyo or Paris. I'd love to, but it ain't going to happen.

I also personally know several product managers and marketing folks that go to WWDC to do business and make contacts of the type that used to be done at MW New York. It's not an excuse for anything, it's just the world we live in. The nature of WWDC has changed.

The excuse that consumer should or will just ignore what comes out of WWCD just doesn't wash. As you say, it's a big announcement. So knowing that, you can't just say "Why are people worried about what's going on at a developer conference, they aren't developers."

I though Apple did a poor job of telling their story. People who are usually really good at covering Apple have the same questions people on this board do. Investors and customers have right to answers from Apple, or else to decide not to buy or invest.
post #140 of 165
interesting here that half people are saying that the current line up of Powermac and Powerbooks might drop in price because they will become obsolete 2 years from now and the other hand half are saying that the prices won't go down because at least the current line up will work natively with current applications so people would not have to worry about emulators until they decide to upgrade 2 or 3 years from now.
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post #141 of 165
apple will make boxes like mini that appeal to switchers. these will be low price.
however, apple will continue to make great mid and top end boxes that are not low in price and continue to attract the people like us who care about both design and performance.
post #142 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by niji
apple will make boxes like mini that appeal to switchers. these will be low price.
however, apple will continue to make great mid and top end boxes that are not low in price and continue to attract the people like us who care about both design and performance.

Do you think the Intel Mac Mini's will be sub $499?

I also believe that the first product they release better be a show stopper or AI folks will be PISSED!
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post #143 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by ryanschmidt
After the recent announcements, those of us that were waiting for a PB G5 or just plain waiting to buy an Apple are now sitting here not sure of what to do.

So, oh wise ones, what should we do? Buy? Wait a week? A month? Stick with our blue screens? Please help.

Don't buy. No need to worry about losing product support. Expect SJ to say at WWDC 2006. "I'm here to officially let you know that the PPC platform is dead" "To the end users it may not be, but to you it is, as 10.5 won't support the PPC platform."
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post #144 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by I hate Apple NOW
Don't buy. No need to worry about losing product support. Expect SJ to say at WWDC 2006. "I'm here to officially let you know that the PPC platform is dead" "To the end users it may not be, but to you it is, as 10.5 won't support the PPC platform."

I see you're wearing your heart on your sleeve with that username!

Why do you hate Apple so much? Is the chip that powers the machine that allows the best available OS to run?

OSX for Intel sucks, I'm sure. Change is bad!

Now where did I put that old LCII?
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post #145 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
I see you're wearing your heart on your sleeve with that username!

Why do you hate Apple so much? Is the chip that powers the machine that allows the best available OS to run?

OSX for Intel sucks, I'm sure. Change is bad!

Now where did I put that old LCII?

I hate intel, so by logic I can't love apple too much these days. The big question is. Did apple lie to us for the last 7+ years? As far as I can see it the Powermac series will die off (No PowerPC chips, no Powermac) They'll just have to call them the wintelmac.
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post #146 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by I hate Apple NOW
I hate intel, so by logic I can't love apple too much these days. The big question is. Did apple lie to us for the last 7+ years? As far as I can see it the Powermac series will die off (No PowerPC chips, no Powermac) They'll just have to call them the wintelmac.

Why do you hate Intel? Is it about the hardware, for you? The OS is what is important to me.

What's next for you? A SparcStation?
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post #147 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
Why do you hate Intel? Is it about the hardware, for you? The OS is what is important to me.

What's next for you? A SparcStation?

I'll keep my G4, I will hate it when 10.5 (leopard?) comes out and doesn't support the PPC platform. I also expect that many ISVs won't support it either.
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post #148 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by I hate Apple NOW
I hate intel, so by logic I can't love apple too much these days. The big question is. Did apple lie to us for the last 7+ years? As far as I can see it the Powermac series will die off (No PowerPC chips, no Powermac) They'll just have to call them the wintelmac.

The chip change is not about the last 7 years it is about the next 7 years. PPC had some good times on top and some not so good times. We don't know what the roadmaps that were shown to SJ looked like, and I agree this whole switch to Intel is a big surprise. IBM was to be our saviour from motorola. Nonetheless, if Apple doesn't see a future with PPC, then that's that. Do you prefer several years of thread on how 'Wintel is crushing the Mac' followed by the 'OMG the MAC is dead' threads?

Let's face it. If the brief history of personal computing is any indication of the future, you may as well get use to the tree being shaken from time to time.

Change is the only constant.
post #149 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by I hate Apple NOW
I hate intel, apple, Powermac the wintelmac.


Why do you HATE Apple ??? Apple LOVE you, Apple want to be your friend !!!

Why do you HATE Intel ??? Intel LOVE you, Intel want to be your friend !!!

Hate is a bad thing, it will get you all tied up in knots and give you an upset tummy.

No calm down and eat those LOVELY mike and cookies...

Make LOVE not HATE !!!
post #150 of 165
Adaptation is the key factor for any company to survive.

Apple saw that IBM would not fulfill their plans. Just like Moto did. so what they have to do to survive? join Intel. People hate Intel for whatever reasons. I really don't care what kind of chips my computer have. As long as the machine is fast and i can use my beloved OSX, who cares if is Intel, IBM. Moto or AMD. big deal!

Some people say PPC is dead. Well, not yet. For me I would be using a PPC machine until a rev b of the Mac Intel comes out. By then most of the applications probably will be running natively on Intel processors. So I am going to buy very soon the fastest PPC Powermac out there to keep me safe for the next 2 to 3 years.
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post #151 of 165
Well after much thought about this and since I've just moved away from Windows & bought a PM I've come to the conclusion that us MAC fans like to live on the edge.

Apple are still tons better than Window boxes and also I'm glad Apple are not letting all intel Pc's in the future have OSX installed on them. That way we still get better designed computers that are tightly intergrated with the OS and not some crappy design like most other Window machines.The best thing is we should be seeing some tasty graphic cards on the way and the lastest hardware!

I believe in Apple so I say lets stand by Stevie boy's desicion. Either that or defect to Windows!!...don't think so.

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post #152 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by I hate Apple NOW
I will hate it when 10.5 (leopard?) comes out and doesn't support the PPC platform.

Leopard (10.5) will support PPC, and chances are 99.9% that 10.6 will as well and most likely even 10.7 though that depends on how far out in the future it will be released - I would guess that Apple will continue support for PPC in Mac OS X until at least 2010.

Anyhow, thinking that 10.5 will not be supported on PPC is just plain foolish. Calm down, you are being overly emotional about this.
post #153 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by I hate Apple NOW
I hate intel, so by logic I can't love apple too much these days. The big question is. Did apple lie to us for the last 7+ years? As far as I can see it the Powermac series will die off (No PowerPC chips, no Powermac) They'll just have to call them the wintelmac.


Why hate Intel? IBM and FreeScale are responsible for this change in CPU, by not preparing to make competitive chips for Apple's future. Apple's CPU purchase was not sufficient to motivate them. Game consoles got all IBM's attention in the last year.

I'm expecting Apple to give us a solid commitment for how long it will support today's Macs on new versions of OS X. Don't forget, Apple will want to continue selling PPC Macs until the transition is complete. If somebody wants to start a poll on this commitment, I'd put down 2012. Also, if it is made easy to build both versions of Cocoa applications, I see no reason most developers would not continue to support the PPC Macs too. Extra sales are extra sales. If customers suspect support for PPC Macs will dry up the moment Mac is all Intel, almost nobody will buy. I'm sure Apple knows this.
post #154 of 165
Don't they have to switch the PowerMacs sooner because that's what developers use? Or will they expect developers to do coding in XCode 2.1 on PPC and test for compatibility on PowerBooks? That's nonsensical.

PowerMacs will be one of the FIRST machines to change.

I'd expect it to go:
PowerBook -> Mac Book with Intel Processor
PowerMac -> Mac Tower with Intel Processor
then...
iMac -> iMac with Intel Processor
Mac Mini -> Mac Mini with Intel Processor
iBook -> iBook with Intel Processor
eMac -> discontinued.

In the short term, they can release speed-bumped iBooks because nobody cares anymore whether they overlap the PowerBooks.
post #155 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
PowerMacs will be one of the FIRST machines to change.

I hope your right, but why do you think that? I thought the mini would be the first.

This is from Ars: check out the bottom table:

http://arstechnica.com/columns/mac/mac-20050608.ars
post #156 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
I hope your right, but why do you think that? I thought the mini would be the first.

This is from Ars: check out the bottom table:

http://arstechnica.com/columns/mac/mac-20050608.ars

Interesting table but I have a problem with one part of it....

iMac suggested to get this 'Sossaman' processor which, from what I've read isn't 64-bit architecture. Why take a step back from what's present in the G5?

I am welcome to being corrected if I'm wrong about details of the Sossaman however.

Yonah would be pretty good for Mac mini and iBook though. Like it.
post #157 of 165
Just bought my dually 2.7!!

I now have a real valid roadmap for the progress of the powermac.

No waiting. It will be at LEAST a year before the Powermac gets the major upgrade and no REV. A troubles to contend with.

I will upgrade my powerbook when the switch to Intel happens.

ME= content + happy
post #158 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark10ant
Interesting table but I have a problem with one part of it....

iMac suggested to get this 'Sossaman' processor which, from what I've read isn't 64-bit architecture. Why take a step back from what's present in the G5?

From a technical stand point yes, but I don't think many iMac users benefit from 64 bit ocmputing.
post #159 of 165
Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
Just bought my dually 2.7!!

I now have a real valid roadmap for the progress of the powermac.

No waiting. It will be at LEAST a year before the Powermac gets the major upgrade and no REV. A troubles to contend with.

I will upgrade my powerbook when the switch to Intel happens.

ME= content + happy

Congrats on the dual 2.7. Nice to hear a sane voice in these crazy days...
post #160 of 165
I just ordered an iMac for my office. I feel no sense of risk or fear about the future whatsoever. I'm sure I'll get a new Mac in 3 years or so, after the Intel transition is well underway, and I'll be fine then, too.

I think the much bigger problem will be getting people to buy the first Intel Macs. I know I don't want to - I have a ton of software that works fine on PowerPC Macs, so why risk the change? My current software will, at best, have to be emulated, and might not even work at all. That will definitely weigh on people's Mac-buying decisions.

2005 is a very safe time to buy a Mac. Buying an Intel Mac will be a more difficult decision for most people. The fact that Apple makes so much of their own software now will alleviate things substantially, and I suspect they'll have a full Office competitor by that time too. But now? Now is a very good time to buy.
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