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Immigration out of control-Newsweek - Page 2

post #41 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Whatever you write gets lost when the 'racist' plank gets raised. Next time leave it out and stick to the point you are trying to make.

So in other words, you have not read any of the posts I've made and now you're trying to cover your tracks by taking the high ground.

Coward.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #42 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Its not meaningless, the facts are quite simple.
Latinos drop out of High School at a higher rate than any other ethnic group in the US.
Latinos go to College at a lower rate than any other ethnic group.
The speculation is that further high immigration rates of uneducated immigrants is bad for this country-true or false?
The speculation is that further high latino immigration rates make it more difficult for latinos already here to move up the ladder and make more money.

I'll give you the last word if you want it, my typing hand hurts (damn arthritis).




Latinos aren't one cultural group.

The US has survived immigration from the uneducated masses many times before this and has come out better than before.

Most americans don't have high school deplomas. How do these immigrants compare with people in their social class, given the existence of a massive language barrier?

Meaningless comparisons, meaningless "facts".

What is your deal with the last word?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #43 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
What is your deal with the last word?

It means he's running away.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #44 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Its not meaningless, the facts are quite simple.
Latinos drop out of High School at a higher rate than any other ethnic group in the US.

Ahhh, there you go. I don't see you differentiate between US born latinos/legal latino immigrants and latinos who got here illegally so I'm going to assume all Latinos=illegal immigrants=problems to you. It's not like Latinos become criminals or bums when they drop out of HS either.
Quote:
Latinos go to College at a lower rate than any other ethnic group.

That is true. So? Let's get to the root of the problem and first of all, help them get to college. Let's try and fix that without "assuming" all latinos= illegals.
Quote:
The speculation is that further high immigration rates of uneducated immigrants is bad for this country-true or false?

I could wipe my ..... with "speculation". Specially based on FAIR's credentials. lol
Quote:
The speculation is that further high latino immigration rates make it more difficult for latinos already here to move up the ladder and make more money.

More "speculation". So all this is actually about....helping latinos in the US? How noble of "FAIR" and you. How sweet.

Since you purposely grouped all latinos into one category, I shall do the same and finish by saying that I sure want to get my hands on those latino $1- trillion- by- 2010 purchasing dollars. I have no doubt that there is no worst case scenario- not even one by FAIR- capable of offsetting the benefit of 1 TRILLION dollars into our economy.

I urge everyone to research that joke called "FAIR" and latino workforce and economic numbers. Maybe you'll also find the thread starter's argument shifts quite telling.

Edit: By the way. I do think porous borders and illegal immigration are problems we need to deal with pronto.

I believe in workers' programs and amnesty to those who have been here paying taxes and contributing to our economy long enough.
post #45 of 185
Just enforce the dam border, its not rocket science. There is a line where the U.S. ends and other countries begin. Its that simple. Spin,lies and Special Intterest can screw up anything including our Border. According to this President we are at war so why hasnt he done his Job? Why isnt he upholding his Oath of Office? he should resign or be impeached for dereliction of duty. Immigration is out of control and both parties could care a less. Their Interests are elsewhere like attacking each other etc.Meanwhile 1/7 of our population is now latino. Its time for both parties to pull their heads out of their arse's. Vote out all incumbants is the only answer.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #46 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Just enforce the dam border, its not rocket science. There is a line where the U.S. ends and other countries begin.

Maybe a moat? A human chain? Mutated dogs?

Yes. We have a border. It is enormous.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #47 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Maybe a moat? A human chain? Mutated dogs?

Yes. We have a border. It is enormous.

Your right just ignore it and those Million's of illegal mexicans will just go away. I like the Moat idea. plus it will give us a alternative to the Panama Canal
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #48 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Your right just ignore it and those Million's of illegal mexicans will just go away.

Yay! Really expensive oranges!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #49 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Yay! Really expensive oranges!

Scare tactics. If prices even go up it will be only slightly. It's not like each illegal only picks 1 orange each.
post #50 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Scare tactics. If prices even go up it will be only slightly. It's not like each illegal only picks 1 orange each.

So wait. The illegals are here in numbers enough to affect our economy but not in numbers enough to affect our economy? Do you even realize what you're arguing?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #51 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
So wait. The illegals are here in numbers enough to affect our economy but not in numbers enough to affect our economy? Do you even realize what you're arguing?

Yes, I do.

if illegal picks 1000 oranges a day @ 3.00/hr, assuming an 8 hour day, It costs the farmer 28.00 per 1000 oranges or 2.8 cents per orange.

If a legal picks 1000 oranges a day at minimum wage it costs the farmer 61.50 per 1000 or 6.1 cents per orange.

Were talking pennies in cost increase. Even if every worker in the chain - picking, sorting, packing, delivery - were illegal, it is only a modest increase. Easily absorbed or made more efficient to compensate.
post #52 of 185
We are already paying for the illegals. The "expensive oranges talk is nonsense. How about the expensive schools, the expensive hospitals, and the cops and the firemen? We are already paying for our oranges.

What we need to do:

-Stop the flow of illegals--yes we can do this

-Maintain legal immigration at a level that we can support

-Initiate a guest worker program for agricultural jobs and make the employers responsible for their people.


Over and over I hear about how this nation was built by immigrants. It was, but a lot has changes over the last 100 years. Once we were an open land hungry for people to settle and expand this developing country. It is not like that today. We are a mature nation. We can no longer take anyone who wants to be here. It is not anti-anybody or racist. It is a physical and economic reality.
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Moe has left the building
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post #53 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
if illegal picks 1000 oranges a day @ 3.00/hr, assuming an 8 hour day, It costs the farmer 28.00 per 1000 oranges or 2.8 cents per orange.

If a legal picks 1000 oranges a day at minimum wage it costs the farmer 61.50 per 1000 or 6.1 cents per orange.

Were talking pennies in cost increase.

You're talking a 300% increase in cost for only ONE WORKER which, when worked out down the line, is amplified and amplified and will, eventually, have to be passed on to the consumer.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #54 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
How about the expensive schools, the expensive hospitals, and the cops and the firemen? We are already paying for our oranges.

Tell that to the farmers. They're all making a killing these days, which is, of course, why they hire illegals to pick things.

Quote:
-Stop the flow of illegals--yes we can do this

Impossible. Those damned Canadians will find a way to get across and steal our jobs.

Quote:
-Maintain legal immigration at a level that we can support

OK.

Quote:
-Initiate a guest worker program for agricultural jobs and make the employers responsible for their people.

OK.

Quote:
Over and over I hear about how this nation was built by immigrants. It was, but a lot has changes over the last 100 years.

And even more over the last 200, one of which is that the damned gummit made people start paying their slave workers. Bastards.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #55 of 185
It is not about stealing our jobs. it is about knowing who is in the US. The WOT is a joke while the borders are Swiss Cheese.


"Tell that to the farmers. They're all making a killing these days, which is, of course, why they hire illegals to pick things."

Poor farmers or huge farming corporations?


"And even more over the last 200, one of which is that the damned gummit made people start paying their slave workers. Bastards."

What does this have to do with anything? Slavery and fake hick talk? Please!

The US was a wide open land that needed people. We welcomed anyone who could get here and those immigrants created this nation. Today we need to be more selective. We can't hold everyone who wants to be here. Immigration must have limits. It must be controlled and it must be legal.
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post #56 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
What does this have to do with anything?

Sigh. Nothing. Nothing at all. Move along, please. These aren't the droids you're looking for.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #57 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
You're talking a 300% increase in cost for only ONE WORKER which, when worked out down the line, is amplified and amplified and will, eventually, have to be passed on to the consumer.

300% ?

from approx .3 to .6 is 300% in your book? Try closer to 200%

But that does not equate to a 200% increase in price when you buy it. The picking part is just a fraction of the overall cost of operation.

Stop the chicken little dance. I think we are all smarter than that.
post #58 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
300% ?

from approx .3 to .6 is 300% in your book? Try closer to 200%

OK. Fair enough. The cost of one worker picking only DOUBLES.

Quote:
But that does not equate to a 200% increase in price when you buy it. The picking part is just a fraction of the overall cost of operation.

Are you trying to make my argument for me?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #59 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Bush is a train wreck. So far, he has to go down in history as the worst President we have ever had, after Jimmy carter. At least Jimmy Carter had good intentions.

Or the best we have had since Nixon, depending on your point of view.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #60 of 185
Quote:
He also goes on to say that Mexicans are the poorest performing immigrants, even second generation.

From my point of view, they are the hardest working people in the country - so how could they be the "poorest performing"?
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post #61 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
From my point of view, they are the hardest working people in the country - so how could they be the "poorest performing"?

I think that's pretty obvious: they don't, even at the second generation, go on to make the big bucks.

Meet Mexico. It's the new Black.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #62 of 185
Quote:
Tell that to the farmers. They're all making a killing these days, which is, of course, why they hire illegals to pick things.

That was a joke, right?
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post #63 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
OK. Fair enough. The cost of one worker picking only DOUBLES.



Are you trying to make my argument for me?

Ok look, pay attention.

function - cost - before legalization

Harvesting - 10000
Packaging - 10000
Shipping - 10000
Storage - 10000
Management - 10000
Licensing - 10000


total cost for harvest - 60000


----


function - cost - after legalization

Harvesting - 20000
Packaging - 10000
Shipping - 10000
Storage - 10000
Management - 10000
Licensing - 10000


total cost for harvest - 70000

About a 16% increase in cost by these numbers.

This is an illustration but it makes my point.
post #64 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
That was a joke, right?

Very much.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #65 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
About a 16% increase in cost by these numbers.

This is an illustration but it makes my point.

And where have you factored in the profit margins?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #66 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I think that's pretty obvious: they don't, even at the second generation, go on to make the big bucks.

Meet Mexico. It's the new Black.

But neither did the irish, I imagine that it was 4 or 5 generations before they started going to university.
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post #67 of 185
Quote:
function - cost - before legalization

Harvesting - 10000
Packaging - 10000
Shipping - 10000
Storage - 10000
Management - 10000
Licensing - 10000

All of those jobs except for Management are done by mexican immegrants (not illegals, for the most part, but the article was about all mexican immegrants anyway).

My wife grew up on a farm in New Mexico, and she spoke only spanish until she moved away at age 4.
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post #68 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
But neither did the irish, I imagine that it was 4 or 5 generations before they started going to university.

Good point. And again, we're back to my earlier point that this is about class, not race (although race is a subset of class, I argue). The Irish who came here following the blight in the 1840s were OVERWHELMINGLY poor. Bad poor. Awful poor. The kind of poor most folks who don't read Engels's Condition of the Working Poor can't even begin to imagine.

Why is it so surprising that an impoverished sector of the population doesn't, on average, suddenly start acting all WASP middle class?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #69 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
And where have you factored in the profit margins?

Profit margins are determined by supply and demand. They fluctuate.

It doesn't matter, you will see approx. the same increase in price as you will see increase in cost. This fluctuates also.
post #70 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Profit margins are determined by supply and demand. They fluctuate.

It doesn't matter, you will see approx. the same increase in price as you will see increase in cost. This fluctuates also.

I get most of my income from a farm - profit margins are low, and return on investment is really bad.

If your costs rise 16%, that can easily put you into the red. There are a lot of farms that are worth more as residential land than farm land, and if you make them unprofitable then they will be converted to houses.

Of course, the governement needs a good percentage of the food supply to be grown domestically for national security reasons, so the government will bump of the farm subsidies rather than let this happen.

So you will end up paying higher taxes...
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post #71 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
What does this have to do with anything? Slavery and fake hick talk? Please!

I'm from podunk Mississippi. It's real hick talk.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #72 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
All of those jobs except for Management are done by mexican immegrants (not illegals, for the most part, but the article was about all mexican immegrants anyway).

My wife grew up on a farm in New Mexico, and she spoke only spanish until she moved away at age 4.

Are not legal immigrant supposed to be paid minimum wage?
post #73 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
If your costs rise 16%, that can easily put you into the red.

Not to mention that a 16% increase in costs for just about any business would be immense.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #74 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Are not legal immigrant supposed to be paid minimum wage?

I was making a side point about the value of Mexican immegrants (both legal and illegal), they are an overwhelming presence that cannot be replaced by other labor.

All of those jobs will have to pay a lot more if there are fewer Mexican people available. Supply of workers will dry up, and wages will go up, and costs will go up, as will food prices and inflation.
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post #75 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
All of those jobs will have to pay a lot more if there are fewer Mexican people available. Supply of workers will dry up, and wages will go up, and costs will go up, as will food prices and inflation.

No no no!!! Don't you get it? Illegal immigrants come here and are a drain on our economy and steal our jobs to such a tremendous degree that we all need to be up in arms (some, literally) about it! But if we stop them, there will be only a negligible effect on the economy, as their effect on it is minor.



I swear to God. That's the argument.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #76 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Not to mention that a 16% increase in costs for just about any business would be immense.

Indeed. A 16% cost increase in ANY business is H-U-G-E.
post #77 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
So in other words, you have not read any of the posts I've made and now you're trying to cover your tracks by taking the high ground.

Coward.

What the hell are you babbling about, you little runt?
post #78 of 185
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
What the hell are you babbling about, you little runt?

So now, rather than address my points or read what I've said, you decide to call me a "little runt."

Nice.

Edit: to which I should add the following. I'm not a "little runt." I'm 12 feet tall and have 7 black-belts in various forms of martial arts. And I breathe fire.

I love internet tough guys.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #79 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar


Latinos aren't one cultural group.

The US has survived immigration from the uneducated masses many times before this and has come out better than before.

Most americans don't have high school deplomas. How do these immigrants compare with people in their social class, given the existence of a massive language barrier?

Meaningless comparisons, meaningless "facts".

What is your deal with the last word?

The US has never had this long a period of endlessly high numbers of poor immigrants. Thats just legal immigrants, throw in illegals and the problem is worse.
As for the massive language barrier, that doesn't seem to be such a problem for most asian immigrants, russian immigrants, etc etc.
And their study showed that second generation latinos also seem to fall behind other ethnic groups.
Those aren't meaningless unless you want to ignore them.
post #80 of 185
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
It means he's running away.

I obviously meant for the night.
Do you two always have such poor reading comprehension?
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