"Letting Go of God" - Page 6

I just wanted to interject that 'occult' here basically means alchemy, and the study of the escatology. Newton wasn't out in the woods on the weekends, naked, wearing a goat skull, and flaying guinea pigs.

Alchemy is an occult art - it involves magical processes and ritual. It never was 'scientific' or intended to be taken literally which is why no-one has ever achieved the transmutation of metals.

It never was about that. It's an allegory.

We're in the wrong thread btw.

How did that happen......Great, now I can't even operate my browser.

And that was just me sacrificing a hamster....think what could happen when I get started on the virgins

Maybe that it is pervers?

I am a protestant minister. I go to church every day.

I don't believe self mutulation is a good thing or something any god would want.
I don't believe bowing to a wall and asking it to forgive my sins makes sense.
My god is good and does not make idiotic requests like sacrifice or self mutulation.
My bible is filled with stories. I actually don't believe it is good literature. I used to be a Franziscan monk but I quit because of perversions. I learned acting at the convent and worked as a non denominational funeral speaker in germany for a while.

Looking at your posts in this thread, I find that very, very hard to believe.

Why, because he urged someone not to rely on God exclusively to solve all of his problems? Are we just helpless puppets and if anything is difficult, make God do the work? If God is omnipresent I think he can take credit even when we do the work to fix things.

This whole attitude that we are just like God's little pets, that we'll get what we want if we whine and beg enough is quite odd. (That is the inference drawn from people's posts - not something anyone specifically said, by the way).

This whole God/Creation concept is flawed. It is fundamentally unfair for a timeless, omnipotent, uncreated being (let's play along) to make a bunch of little playthings, tell them they have Free Will and if they play the game according to his rules we'll be honored to be in his presence forever as a reward beyond words.

First of all (still playing along) there is no *choice* in our having been Created. It's like raising a slave baby and when it's old enough telling it "You can either work on my farm for nothing, for life, and if you're good, when you're older, I'll let you live in the Master's house where you can grovel appreciatively. Otherwise I'll just have you tortured and killed." Nice.

If you say it is our *place* to respect such a powerful deity for the very power He has, compared to our own lack of it, what is that respect based on since he has created us intentionally as his lessers? It just comes off as arrogance on God's part to demand awe from us. It is infantile of a god to do that. It's like going into a kindergarten class and dealing out roundhouse kicks. Fair fight. Not.

It is impossible for me to believe. This isn't even something easily dodged by the typical "God works in mysterious ways" cop-outs.

Illogical hodgepodge of half-baked mythology-based power structures is all it is.

Before that's labeled as yet more hate speech:

It is Illogical.
It is a hodgepodge of pagan and other religions mashed together.
It is half-baked, requiring constant apologetic reworkings and cause innumerable rifts amongst itself.
It is mythology, having no historical evidence of a Jesus being flesh.*
It is a power structure, a supra-government that meddles in governments daily.

* And that's "OK". But call it for what it is. Symbolic only. Not real. Myth.

You can't deny much of that. No hate needed for it to be largely correct.

Hate has nothing to do with it. I despise it's lingering, persistent negative effects. And I hate that people are gullible to fall for it ceaselessly.

But that's not "hating Christians" for the sake of hate.

I love them all, they are all potential ex-victims of delusion and I welcome any that break free.

I'd have to agree with Brussel, what denomination offically supports jamac's views?

You can put that on my tab, johnq.

Die Heretic !!!!!!

jamac also said "The day god dies there will be peace on earth" and (about the Bible) : "It can also be used as toilet paper in case you run out."

I know there are plenty of serious Christians who have, shall we say, non-fundamentalist views. People like John Spong and Marcus Borg and Dominic Crossan. But those are writers and theologians, not ministers. To be a real-life minister you have to deal with people who would be seriously offended by talking about wiping your ass with the Bible, and I just doubt that someone who could utter such language would last as a minister.

Look at it, not as good.

And they admit to taking steps to preserve the body and can be seen doing so.

I think right there you stated the only real difference.

One group admits to preservation, the other does not.

Exactly.

This is an interesting article on this topic from the Fortean Times and it raises several key issues:


Another issue is that if the incorruption of a Saint's corpse is a sign of Sainthood then why aren't all Saints incorrupt ?

And what about others who are far from Saintly:


The article also goes on to mention the numerous equivalents of Buddhist monks whose bodies are also 'miraculously' preserved.

um, segoivous, I hate to rain on your parade, but there is the small matter of ordination to consider. If he's a minister.......

Focus, man!!

Yes, I re-read it and I did find this bit deeply troubling:

Your critical thinking is TOTALLY lacking on this subject:

1. I want to see the close up, well not really it would be gross !!!

2. St. Bernadette died in 1879 !!!

Your example is WEAK having died in 1924 Now you are going to argue that they had better preservation methods in 1879 then they did 45 years later ???


Thinking that the church would fake this, is incorrect and a total misunderstanding of what they are about.

Your faith and religion in nothingness is stopping you from thinking this through logically.

Oh and then there is the long line of wheel chairs that continue to pack the entrance to Lourdes !!!

I'm fascinated at how you can draw such conclusions about me from one quote. Perhaps you ought to go back and figure out who you're really trying to talk to here? Then you can PM me an apology for incorrectly attributing things to me. No need to make it a public affair.

Yeah, that's a real red flag right there. No one with perversions actually quits the Catholic church.

The bottom line to me is, if anyone can dismiss this easily, they do not think critically using evidence.

Further-more I accept the writings of a Nobel prize winner about miracles at Lourdes LONG before I will accept simple speculations on a web forum.

The findings of the first mummies were not made public until at the earliest 1881, so in 1879 there was no basis to say their was a popular desire for such a miracle.

http://www.egyptologyonline.com/mummies.htm

Your whole argument is quit fantastic and far fetched, the idea that this kind of preservation tech was available at that time is WAY OUT THERE.

You know YOUR ARGUMENT VERY WELL PROVES MY POINT, if St. Bernadette is preserved by a preservation technique then why aren't all saints preserved this way ?!?!?!?

THAT PICT OF LENIN IS REALLY GROSS HIS FINGERS ARE TURNING SO BLACK THE MAKEUP DOES NOT EVEN COVER IT UP !!!

Oh soo because you are a mod you feel free to use your authority to gain favors and "Uncles" that others could not achieve.

Certainly this is what you are doing since I said nothing rude or obscene.

You are claiming that I am being presumptuous, and rather than correcting me you expect an apology -- THAT IS FUNNY. More flawed judgment.

No the other hand I claim that you were intentionally drawing me in and have now said you are insulted by ordinary disagreement, your lack of logic and common knowledge IS SEVERELY OFFENSIVE TO ME, thus YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY.

Now you are saying to yourself that my judgment is flawed because this exchange will lead to me being band from AI, NOW REALLY IS THAT A PUNISHMENT OR A FAVOR !?!?!?!

From my point of view it IS NOT PUNISHMENT.

You are clearly part of the LIBERAL CONSPIRACY only this type would behave with such disregard.

I have NOTHING to apologize for, YOU SHOULD BE THANKING ME FOR SPENDING MY VALUABLE TIME CORRECTING YOUR WEAK MENTAL PROCESSES -- !!!






Actually I think these forums almost always devolve into molesters and molested children, the MC kiss the butts the M and they do that because they accept their station in life and want to see the innocent and strong pay the dues they are paying, and do all they can to draw then in. They want believe that no one can resist the strength of evil and their evil dominators.

Well, my whole family and small town that I grew up in are ALL molesters and I resisted them ALL -- AND I ALSO TURNED THEM INTO THE POLICE. The police who I am sure watch these forums diligently -- AppleInblackout !!!

If one person, I can resist all these people working against me then YOU must face the facts YOU ARE ALL PITIFULLY WEAK AND PATHETIC AND EVIL IS ALSO PATHETIC AND WEAK and that is just the way it is.

I'm thinking that MACchine must be Hassan.

No Hassan, YES MACchine, YES Mac_yoda, YES backwards talk !!!

I'll tell you what:

Show me where I posted a photo of Lenin, and not only will I declare myself owned, I'll give up the modership that I so thoroughly abuse.

But to make things fair, if you can't find my post, perhaps a week long ban from politcal outsider for you for thread hijacking and being an all around nuisance?

Deal?

You TOTALLY LOST ME ???

I never said you posted a photo of Lenin, the other guy DID.

HOW have I hijacked this thread ??? Most of my posts here are simply responding to YOU !!!

How is a LOGICAL argument a nuisance ??????


I continue to ask the unanswered question posed by my brilliant friend above:

"You know YOUR ARGUMENT VERY WELL PROVES MY POINT, if St. Bernadette is preserved by a preservation technique then why aren't all saints preserved this way ?!?!?!?"

If you can post like a normal human being, without using caps and blathering on about 'liberal conspiracy', then your position may be tenable. You are undermining your own credibility by doing so.

Because if one wants to try and make people believe in over the top miracles to drum up support for their belief system, like a body that doesn't rot for instance, one may go to certain lengths to manufacture that miracle.

At the same time, if no Saint's body ever rotted, there'd be a lot of scientists clamoring to find out why, in which case something less than miraculous would probably be exposed.

Also (and as the resident fundie) on the same theme as rageous, in a universe of Ultimate Contingency, you could have a million miracles and it wouldn't really be of any significance.
(philosphically speaking)

By TYPING so fucking ANNOYINGLY if nothing ELSE!!!

!!!

As if you DON'T KNOW why you are ANNOYING?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!!


:EYEROLL:

Now let's get back to DMZ not answering my questions or being soooo busy that he doesn't have time (until people stop asking him direct questions).

short, economical riffs 'till the weekend, I PROMISE! :WINK:WINK;NUDGE;NUDGE

He's not me. I'm only pretend mad.

I dunno, maybe if we could get a urine sample?

Cool, you could fill a tank with it and get a crucifix...err.....umm.....

Ever considered that there might have been a god at one point, but he's ceased to exist since then?

That is clearly the only conclusion one can reach from a careful reading of the old Testament. In fact, one can even pinpoint the point when God disappears - somewhere prior to the book of Ruth.

After that He never speaks again and is increasingly remote.

Of course, in any event this OT God was not 'God' but merely a tribal local god of the Israelites and one that ofr political/power purposes they elevated to the position of 'big-cheese'.

This is all quite explicit in the OT if read with an objective eye.

I'm sure most Christians won't agree with me here, but I think Christianity went a long way towards "letting go of God." The essence of Christianity, in my view, is that God was, for the first time, replaced by a man. It's really a humanistic religion in that respect. And I don't think Jesus ever referred to himself as the unique son of God, and I don't even think he talked about God. Instead he talked about "the Kingdom of God" which was already here and within us. That sounds like humanism rather than the kind of superantural religion that instead became Christianity.

I think that you usually call it another name . . . like the Church

Its really simple . . . if you had bothered to read the quote above. Some bodies don't rot most do . . . some people don't rot ( I chalk it up to foodstuffs or natural toxins or whatever . . . but mostly I just think that they do rot, but slower, and that those that 'really' don't have had some covert help in orderr to bring in the pilgrim-tax)

I want to point out also that the phrase that you are waving around like a hysterical fanatic, as if it is going to prove your point, can also be, in itself, proof positive that the Catholic Church's ideas about saints is quite. . . well . .. fallible: "why aren't all saints preserved this way?"

Meaning: why are all these so called saints' bodies rotting despite the fact that saints bodies are not supposed to rot?

I know all about the history of dead bodies and all the strange things people have found by digging them up, and the strange people that dig them.

SAYING SOMETHING THAT IS TRUE DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS ABSOLUTE OR IN-TRANSITORY -- and only very weak minds function this way, but alas many mind DO function this way !!!

Some bodies do decay very slowly but these are bodies that are buried in soils with natural preservatives or in caskets that by design or accident hermetically seal the body.

But they ALL decay some just do it more slowly, the liquids in the body pretty much guarantee this. And those bodies that were dug up after a month that looked like they were still perfect were highly decayed internally, the experts on the subject said that they were actually bloated internally, thus they were liquified inside. After a while they would just burst and fall apart.

It looks like Lenin is turning black all over, the color of dried blood and they are using light colored makeup to hide this.

Do me a favor and ever time you cook a piece meat put a little chunk of it in a plate on the counter and wait a week, and THEN EAT IT !!!

When you find one that has NOT rotted let me know, THANKS !

CALLING THE ANSWER TO A QUESTION fallible does not make it so or fool anyone, we ALL know the truth deep down, avoiding admitting it is how many people live there lives.

MANY people just say this won't work or that can't be true and that is the SAFE rought to take, you can no NOTHING AT ALL, and this will seem to be correct much of time. But the truth requires knowing how things work and that means the fine details of how things work, no it NOT true that most things DON'T WORK, most things DO WORK you just have to know how to use them.

See the problem people have with these topics is that they deal with information that does not fit into their comic book view of the world, but that is FANTASY NOT REALITY !!!

REALITY IS COMPLICATED so most people never realize it, thus true miracles will always be ignored.

I want to go make a donation to Mother Teresa but I can't find her body ???

Soo answer the question:

"If St. Bernadette is preserved by a preservation technique then why aren't all saints preserved this way ?!?!?!?"