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G5 - The truth

post #1 of 490
Thread Starter 
It's been a while and much has happened in the interim, but some things never change, especially the over optimistic and over pessimistic fellings shared on this board. But it's good to know some things never change. One thing i don't know is how this rumor about the G5 is so widespread. So far I have yet to see one in any lab allthough I don't doubt they exist; inside Apple labs. What we have seen though, is widespread use of the 7460 which is basically a 7450 with an improved method of manufacter. Still this is nothing to sneeze at. They offer linear performance over the 7450 at better speeds. The range so far has been ~900-1400MHz but it is hard to give exact numbers due to the variety of motherboards they exist on. I was shocked when the newer motherboard we were working on were not released at the Expo this past summer. Fully working DDR-SDRAM motherboards were ready with a full assortment of modern motherboard features including Fibre Firewire at speeds up to 1600Mbps with a fibre port and 2 lower speed (800Mb) normal ports. USB1.1 was still there but the board had support for DDR-SDRAM and an advanced system bus running at 266MHz. They were to include CPU's running at up to 1GHz. Perhaps faster CPU's were hard to come by.
Of couse they could have put that plan on ice and wait for the recently announced 333Mhz DDR-SDRAM. The board was fully compatible with the newer SDRAM standard and easy to impliment. this of course would imply the cpu bus to the main controller would be accordingly sped up to provice sufficient bandwidth. Internally on the main controller (memory+PCI+peripherals (there is no seperate southbridge controller)) there is a hyper transport link from PCI controller and peripherals such as ATA/133, USB, audio (also new), etc. Firewire and ethernet have their own seperate connections. This is an advanced peice of silicon. No, to me the only reason to release this board that is all ready this Expo is simple; many of the advanced features would go unused. perhaps there would have been a lack of advanced firewire peripherals. Or maybe they wanted to see the outcome of the memory wars between RAMBUS and the DDR consortium (there was in fact RAMBUS based prototypes of G4 systems floating around that we never came in contact with). In just over a month we will see a leap in performance from Apple's high end. It should be enough to justify their role in high end applications for years to come. We'll see.
post #2 of 490
Oh come on. That's about the worst fake Dorsal I've seen yet.
post #3 of 490
Actually, he sounds legit, and his post was interesting. Also, I these features are totally plausible, and I really doubt A|W ported Maya to OSX to be run on a 500 mhz G4. These features Dorsal M talks about are the hardware Maya should be run on. Basically, with the next G4s, apple will be entering the graphics workstation market. These beasts will be built to do 3D, and will include extra motherboard chips to accelerate this.

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: stimuli ]</p>
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No, the bazaar cannot satisfy users. Neither can the cathedral. Nothing can satisfy users, because software is written to enable rather than satisfy, and because most users are mewling malcontents...
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post #4 of 490
If this is the real dorsal which doesn't really matter to me, I am one who is really hoping for a g5 and i realize that it is very improbable but i still have hope. It sounds like these g4's would be a good upgrade, but is there any chance you jsut might not of recieved one or apple wants to surprise everyone or something. i know disappointment might be in my future but is there any chance?
post #5 of 490
nice to see that the real Dorsal has returned.

post #6 of 490
If you go to the US Trademark database and do a search on "Gigawire" you'll see that Apple owns this trademark. If the new Firewire's speeds are as high as Dorsal says they are perhaps they'll change the name from Firewire 2 to Gigawire. Just a thought.
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post #7 of 490
Seems like the real Dorsal. Welcome back.
post #8 of 490
If Dorsal is correct about we only would see Apollo base PowerMac this January I hope Apple won't stick that same God damned $3499 price tag on the 1.4Ghz G4

Apple doesn't deserve to charge people at this price for an 'old' techonolgy

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
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post #9 of 490
that wouldn't be old tech. 1.4 Ghz g4 on a 333 mhz bus with DDR Ram = not old tech.
post #10 of 490
Also I am curious about the performance of this DDR base 1.4Ghz G4 machine and how it will compare to the RAMBUS based 2Ghz P4 system.

IF it's performance is only a small gain from the existing DP 800 (should have a big price cut after January) I think I would go for it if I am buying a new machine

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
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post #11 of 490
Dorsal M, if you get the chance, could you tell us a little about 3D on these amchines?
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No, the bazaar cannot satisfy users. Neither can the cathedral. Nothing can satisfy users, because software is written to enable rather than satisfy, and because most users are mewling malcontents...
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post #12 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by stimuli:
<strong>Dorsal M, if you get the chance, could you tell us a little about 3D on these amchines?</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's why I am asking how it compares to those high end P4 systems....and oh yeah....those Athlon XP 1800+ systems too....

But I don't think those new PowerMac will beat the Athlon unless it's equiped with G5

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
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post #13 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by Leonis:
<strong>But I don't think those new PowerMac will beat the Athlon unless it's equiped with G5
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Unfortunately, I think you might be right.
post #14 of 490
Are you sure this is the real Dorsal? Once again, he made his name Dorsal M. That M on the end is enough to make me think its another fake. Please people, don't f*ck around with us re Dorsal. Can someone check the IP?
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post #15 of 490
I have been running both Lightwave (only helping my friends on rendering) and Cinema using both Mac and Athlon PCs

The 1.6Ghz Athlon Thunderbird smokes the dual 800 PowerMac (not to mention my DP 500) by a quite significant margin while cost slightly more than 1/3 the cost of the PowerMac!

My 1.1Ghz Athlon PC only costs me $600CDN and it's 15% faster on rendering than my DP 500!

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
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post #16 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>Are you sure this is the real Dorsal? Once again, he made his name Dorsal M. That M on the end is enough to make me think its another fake. Please people, don't f*ck around with us re Dorsal. Can someone check the IP?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The reason the M is there is because the fake dorsal has the name dorsal so the real one can't use it.
post #17 of 490
Quite simply Athalons kick one hell of a lot of ass. But who knows how the a G4 will perform with DDR ram and some tinkerings. We may be pleasantly surprised, enough to keep us satisfied untill the G5 eventualy makes its debut.
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post #18 of 490
[quote]Are you sure this is the real Dorsal? Once again, he made his name Dorsal M. That M on the end is enough to make me think its another fake. Please people, don't f*ck around with us re Dorsal. Can someone check the IP?<hr></blockquote>

Confirmed. It is the real Dorsal people.
post #19 of 490
So no G5's. Well that doesn't surprise me really.

Anyway...a G4 based POwermac announced at MWSF better include some technological advances. DDR Ram, HyperTransport and GHz+ Processors (they better not hack off the external caches on the Powermacs like they are with everything else). 800MPs Firewire? Who cares? It will be well over a year before any companies implement it...PC makers are still starting to implement Firewire 1.0 let alone 2.0. It will be a while before Cannon or Sony implement it on their cameras, or Firewire hard drives implement it. I say put money elsewhere Apple, better MB technology, better front side bus. Forget USB 2.0 and 800mbps Firewire, it's too early.

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]</p>
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post #20 of 490
Ok, I'm confused now. Who's chip is the G5? Is it MOT's or IBM's or both?

According this this badly translated German article IBM and MOT both worked on it-

--------------------------------------------
And where I am straight thereby, still which to the G5: At the front of the next power PC version 75xx - better admits under the name G5 - does which. Allegedly Motorola and IBM work intensively on this chip, so that Apple can achieve their goal already of presenting to G5-Macs anno 2002. Do you have now finally enough?
---------------------------------------------

And why does IBM have a G5 chip<a href="http://lhd.datapower.com/db/dispproduct.php3?DISP?2371" target="_blank">already?</a> Why would IBM have a G5 (server?) chip and then have Apple come out with a G5 made by MOT?

So, if IBM and MOT are fabbing this chip doesn't that help the chances for a Jan release as opposed to March?
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post #21 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>And why does IBM have a G5 chip<a href="http://lhd.datapower.com/db/dispproduct.php3?DISP?2371" target="_blank">already?</a> Why would IBM have a G5 (server?) chip and then have Apple come out with a G5 made by MOT?

So, if IBM and MOT are fabbing this chip doesn't that help the chances for a Jan release as opposed to March?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think this is merely a coincidence as the terminology in that link refers to IBM system model numbers, not the processor chips.

I am inclined to believe Dorsal and will stick with the updated MB with an upgraded G4. Will I try to sell my DP800 before MWSF as I have my past 3 systems in anticipation of a significant enough upgrade to make it worthwhile? Hmmm, been burnt before... but isn't that part of the fun of being on the bleeding edge?
Still waiting for a PowerMac that is a significant jump in performance from current levels.
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Still waiting for a PowerMac that is a significant jump in performance from current levels.
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post #22 of 490
[quote] And why does IBM have a G5 chipalready? Why would IBM have a G5 (server?) chip and then have Apple come out with a G5 made by MOT?

So, if IBM and MOT are fabbing this chip doesn't that help the chances for a Jan release as opposed to March?
<hr></blockquote>

your answer:

[quote] The IBM S/390® Parallel Enterprise ServerGeneration 5 and Generation 6 family can handle all these tasks concurrently in a stable, very highly secure environment that can grow easily as your business grows.
<hr></blockquote>
post #23 of 490
Since Dorsal was right about the last mobo/CPU prediction, he must be right about this one. I mean, if his last prediction about new mobos was right, hoe could be ever be wrong.

And of course, if Apple had G5 powermacs, Dorsal would get one for sure, because he's on Apple's inside track. Yeah, Jobs says, "ok, we have the new G5 prototypes all set, now why the hell doesn't Dorsal have one?!?!?".



This guy is taking you all for a ride. I've never seen so many gullibil people in my life.

BTW, if you want real insider info, goto badflamingo's forums. They are the real thing, not full of idiots like Dorsal.
post #24 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by AppleProphet:
<strong>

Confirmed. It is the real Dorsal people.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I love this site.
post #25 of 490
Can someone briefly outline Dorsal M's track record for those of us who paid absolutely no attention last time round?
Chicanery.
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Chicanery.
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post #26 of 490
He was fairly accurate about the speeds of quicksilver. His motherboard predictions didn't pan out, but to his credit he always spoke of two classes of MB. One of them is like that which people keep predicting (DDR, firewire 2, faster etc etc...) the other was like the motherboard of today -- I remember when he wrote about it still retaining 66MB/sec ATA, people couldn't believe it, but it turned out true.

He did, however, encourage a fair bit of prototype case speculation, usually in the form of cryptic replies to hastily posted mock-ups. This could've been an attempt to remain anonymous to any NDA headhunters scoping the boards. Think about it, all testers probably get the same or very similar mother-boards, but if apple were so inclined, they could seed quickly made one-off enclosures in order to spy which ones end up in the press or on the net. Then they've caught their mole/s. On the other hand, he coulda just been having a little fun -- the protos people came up with didn't look anything like quicksilver.
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post #27 of 490
Didn't he also nail the specs for the G4 PowerBook and G4 towers that were introduced at MWSF 2001 in January? I honestly don't remember.

_aarons
post #28 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by AaronS:
<strong>Didn't he also nail the specs for the G4 PowerBook and G4 towers that were introduced at MWSF 2001 in January? I honestly don't remember.

_aarons</strong><hr></blockquote>


He only talked about PowerMac, I believe
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post #29 of 490
I call BS on this one.

Regards,
Alex Warren
post #30 of 490
PS.

how is i that th mods/admins can confirm that this is the real dorsal? I thought that dorsal v1 always anonymized himself???

'esplain' this please.
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post #31 of 490
Hmm.....reading the post it does seem like it's Dorsal, and the mods have confirmed it is indeed the real deal.

What COULD be the case is:

-Dorsal does not work for a major company such as Adobe that would be sure to get prototype G5s
-Dorsal has received the 7460 machines that Apple will introduce as their back-up plan if there is no way the G5s can ship within a reasonable time span after MWSF
-Apple is in fact going to keep G4s in the low-end PowerMacs and these are the machines that Dorsal has
-Dorsal just hasn't received those G5s quite yet

I don't know, I see too much evidence pointing to the G5. However Apple always finds a way to disappoint.

Keep hitting us up with info Dorsal.
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post #32 of 490
Here lies the problem. If he only recieves prototypes there is no guarentee that what he may recieve is ever sold. He is then discredited.

On the otherhand if he is right then he has made the same predictions as other people and doesn't possess any real insider knowledge.

The long and short of it is that unless "Dorsal M" posts a photo of something revolutionally - something he could never afford to do, we will never reall know if ihe is real or fake.

On balance I believe that he does possess (sp!) some insider knowledge and as such enjoy his posts.
Wll I have my G5 so I am off to get a life; apart from this post...
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Wll I have my G5 so I am off to get a life; apart from this post...
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post #33 of 490
Well exactly. There's no doubt that Dorsal is telling us what he receives. I'm not going to say that he is discredited because the systems he talked about before MWNY never panned out. Like someone in an earlier post mentioned, he usually talks about more than one motherboard. The one he "thought" would be introduced was cut by Apple at the last minute probably. Dorsal gives us great info and his info hints at what we can expect.
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post #34 of 490
Even if MOSR is right, Apple is just receiving G5s version 0.8. I don't think they have MBs or Macs ready to send them out to beta testers. I doubt there are any G5 Macs outside Apple's labs.
BTW Apple is conservative about RAMs so I think we will not see anything faster than 133 MHz DDR.
post #35 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>800MPs Firewire? Who cares? It will be well over a year before any companies implement it... ...Forget USB 2.0 and 800mbps Firewire, it's too early.</strong><hr></blockquote>

*ahem: the following is sarcasm*

What!!?!? No floppy drive? USB? What!!?!?
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post #36 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>BTW, if you want real insider info, goto badflamingo's forums. They are the real thing, not full of idiots like Dorsal.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No way, if we want real insider info, we'll listen to yer drunk friends.

*he he he*
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post #37 of 490
They could easily stop at Rev 0.8, call it final, then begin mass production.
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post #38 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>They could easily stop at Rev 0.8, call it final, then begin mass production.</strong><hr></blockquote>

not if there are still problems
post #39 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

not if there are still problems</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think he was assuming that there were no problems and therefore Apple could finalize it and beging fabbing
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post #40 of 490
Dorsal! Get back in da house and cook us up some mo' rumors! No postin' and den hidin'!

- Pook
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