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G5 - The truth - Page 10

post #361 of 490
3 processors? But the G5 isn't coming out in Jan according to AtAT, unless we have 2 gens of G4, current and Apollo. They have always been right on in my recent memory so I will have to go with them and pray that I have pleasantly surprised.
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post #362 of 490
Checked out Think Secret's forums for the first time in a long time. Guess who's got a few post there? Our very own, lovable Codename. He even lists AppleInsider.com as his location. In the "i of Newton" thread, he says, "It will be a dolphin with a hot wire running through it." Still cryptic, but not quite so mystic when he's over there. Anyway, if its Nick, why isn't he spicing up his own forums more? They've always been kind of a bore.
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post #363 of 490
hotwire eh? seems like a pretty easy one... I'm guessing he means "firewire"
post #364 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:

<strong>3 processors? But the G5 isn't coming out in Jan according to AtAT, unless we have 2 gens of G4, current and Apollo. They have always been right on in my recent memory so I will have to go with them and pray that I have pleasantly surprised.</strong><hr></blockquote>

When did AtAT say that? There was a joke about it in their last report but that's all it was... a joke. Did they say something earlier?
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post #365 of 490
From the 12.18 episode of AtAt:

So here's what the crystal revealed: as we suspected, the PowerPC G5 won't be making an
appearance (not for another six months, anyway), and instead, we'll get faster Power Mac G4s
starting at 933 MHz and punching well past the gigahertz barrier.
post #366 of 490
off topic:

Macman, os9 is not better than linux! not by a long shot! And personally, I think linux is better than OSX. I'm an Apple hardware junkie, but for OS, I prefer linux. It just rocks. It flies on a 250 mhz PBG3. All the apps are free. many of them rock.

my 2 cents...
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No, the bazaar cannot satisfy users. Neither can the cathedral. Nothing can satisfy users, because software is written to enable rather than satisfy, and because most users are mewling malcontents...
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post #367 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel:
<strong>From the 12.18 episode of AtAt:

So here's what the crystal revealed: as we suspected, the PowerPC G5 won't be making an
appearance (not for another six months, anyway), and instead, we'll get faster Power Mac G4s
starting at 933 MHz and punching well past the gigahertz barrier.</strong><hr></blockquote>


1Ghz ain't much of a barrier to 'punch' thru when it's still less than half the speed of Intel and a year late; Mhz Myth or not.

At this rate, sooner or later, even the photoshop bake-offs will stop working - and once that happens, Apple's really in trouble.

Apple needs a revolution - soon.
In life, as in chess, the moves that hurt the most, are the ones you didn't see ...
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In life, as in chess, the moves that hurt the most, are the ones you didn't see ...
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post #368 of 490
Just for a lark I did a Google search on "Macintosh G5".

Wow.

There is a huge amount of "reporting" of the same single source quoted by TheRegister and MOSR. Even CNN got into it. Its clear that everybody is ready for the G5, everybody is hoping for the G5, and nobody is expecting to actually see a G5. But we'll all be disappointed when it doesn't materialize. I hope Jobs is wearing body armour if they aren't actually going to deliver it.

One thing that surprised me, however, was that there were people seriously expecting the G5 back at MWNY. I had only heard 1 GHz G4 rumours (and even those weren't met). The only thing I had been hoping for was DDR.

Ryan @ MOSR must be tickled pink -- his site is mentioned in connection with this all over the place.

The CNN story was interesting because they quoted a Moto rep who downplayed how soon the G5 would arrive, what it would be, and also indicated it would use a process technology that Moto doesn't have available yet (0.10 micron).

In the end we really have zero "truth", and won't have any until the 7th.
Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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Providing grist for the rumour mill since 2001.
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post #369 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by stimuli:
<strong>
Macman, os9 is not better than linux! not by a long shot! And personally, I think linux is better than OSX. I'm an Apple hardware junkie, but for OS, I prefer linux. It just rocks. It flies on a 250 mhz PBG3. All the apps are free. many of them rock.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Can you fill me in?

I don't quite understand the structure of Linux ... MUST the apps be free? Or can you write an app and charge for it?

Like, let's say - Apple did something - ahem "revolutionary", and sold a dev kit for Cocoa (not Carbon)to run atop Linux, that included a user interface very much like Aqua (or, at least as close as they can get on an Intel box) ... could Apple legally sell such a thing?
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In life, as in chess, the moves that hurt the most, are the ones you didn't see ...
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post #370 of 490
Companies like Intel and AMD have release dates for a reason....its a shame Apple has to take this route. Ultimately, its done Apple, and its investors and customers, more harm than good. Everyone likes a pleasant surprise (like the iPod) but this processor business (and the fact that Apple treats them like Christmas goodies) only reinforces Apple's reputation as a boutique firm.
post #371 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
<strong>In the end we really have zero "truth", and won't have any until the 7th.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Ahhhh, enlightenment.

But c'mon, hasn't anybody 'round here snooped thru Apple's garbage at least once? Or at least tried to clean Steve's pool?

Repeat after me: "Phill, you've lost weight!" ... I know it's hard to say, but dammit man, think of the cause!

Even the smallest weasel can change the course of history.
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post #372 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by OverToasty:
<strong>
I don't quite understand the structure of Linux ... MUST the apps be free? Or can you write an app and charge for it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sure; there are a number of commercial, closed-source apps for Linux. Quake 3 comes immediately to mind, and I think there's also a decent office suite (Corel?).

It's just the nature of it that makes most of the apps free and open-source. I might add that very few are polished, user-level apps like you'd expect on Mac and Windows.

[quote]Originally posted by OverToasty:
<strong>Like, let's say - Apple did something - ahem "revolutionary", and sold a dev kit for Cocoa (not Carbon)to run atop Linux, that included a user interface very much like Aqua (or, at least as close as they can get on an Intel box) ... could Apple legally sell such a thing?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, but it's much more likely that they would just have "OS X for Intel-architecture", not running atop anything. After all, they have the whole BSD layer, which performs the same function as Linux. In fact, it's a certainty that they have something like this running internally as a contingency plan.

Alex
post #373 of 490
i think i get it, dessert being a place where there is no water. aka aqua. if there is no aqua then what would it use? rosetta stone i think. so maybe dolphin or whatever is tablet? i hope not cuz i dont want one. sorry
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post #374 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by myahmac:
<strong>i think i get it, dessert being a place where there is no water. aka aqua. if there is no aqua then what would it use? rosetta stone i think. so maybe dolphin or whatever is tablet? i hope not cuz i dont want one. sorry</strong><hr></blockquote>

is this english??
what has this place become???

btw desert is with 1 's' dessert is somthing you have after dinner (you always want seconds, hence the 2nd 's')(same thing with dinner and diner)-I just wanted to point that little titbit of info out...
-Paul
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post #375 of 490
sometimes i wish we could communicate by thought because i have a horrible time trying to type what i am thinking, hence the low post count, oh well.
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post #376 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by myahmac:
<strong>sometimes i wish we could communicate by thought because i have a horrible time trying to type what i am thinking, hence the low post count, oh well.</strong><hr></blockquote>

eh, or it could be that we're both tired...
I mean it IS almost 4 in the morning for me.
After re-reading your post I kinda understand what you are getting at, but I was really just making fun of the # of "codemanes" in your post... heh
-Paul
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post #377 of 490
Dorsal,

Where did ya go man? You've been way to quiet and we could really use something to chat about while we wait for 'd-day'...

You too codename...

Dave

[ 01-01-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
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post #378 of 490
Wow ! How many pages of this topic has Codename's little riddle taken up?

Jeez :eek:
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post #379 of 490
Here's another quote from codename over at Think Secret. It's in the iPhoto? iCam? thread.

[quote] You heard it here first: G2000 <hr></blockquote>
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post #380 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by murk:
<strong>Here's another quote from codename over at Think Secret. It's in the iPhoto? iCam? thread.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

That guy isn't codename (our codename) I read some of his other posts and it sure didn't sound like our codename...

Dave
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post #381 of 490
Oh and for fellow Dorsal fans... here is a recap of the messages posted by him thus far... (instead of digging over 10 pages).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's been a while and much has happened in the interim, but some things never change, especially the over optimistic and over pessimistic fellings shared on this board. But it's good to know some things never change.

One thing i don't know is how this rumor about the G5 is so widespread. So far I have yet to see one in any lab allthough I don't doubt they exist; inside Apple labs.

What we have seen though, is widespread use of the 7460 which is basically a 7450 with an improved method of manufacter. Still this is nothing to sneeze at.
They offer linear performance over the 7450 at better speeds. The range so far has been ~900-1400MHz but it is hard to give exact numbers due to the variety of motherboards they exist on.

I was shocked when the newer motherboard we were working on were not released at the Expo this past summer.

Fully working DDR-SDRAM motherboards were ready with a full assortment of modern motherboard features including Fibre Firewire at speeds up to 1600Mbps with a fibre port and 2 lower speed (800Mb) normal ports. USB1.1 was still there but the board had support for DDR-SDRAM and an advanced system bus running at 266MHz. They were to include CPU's running at up to 1GHz. Perhaps faster CPU's were hard to come by.

Of couse they could have put that plan on ice and wait for the recently announced 333Mhz DDR-SDRAM. The board was fully compatible with the newer SDRAM standard and easy to impliment. this of course would imply the cpu bus to the main controller would be accordingly sped up to provice sufficient bandwidth.

Internally on the main controller (memory+PCI+peripherals - there is no seperate southbridge controller) there is a hyper transport link from PCI controller and peripherals such as ATA/133, USB, audio (also new), etc.

Firewire and ethernet have their own seperate connections. This is an advanced peice of silicon. No, to me the only reason to release this board that is all ready this Expo is simple; many of the advanced features would go unused.

Perhaps there would have been a lack of advanced firewire peripherals. Or maybe they wanted to see the outcome of the memory wars between RAMBUS and the DDR consortium (there was in fact RAMBUS based prototypes of G4 systems floating around that we never came in contact with).

In just over a month we will see a leap in performance from Apple's high end. It should be enough to justify their role in high end applications for years to come. We'll see.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apple has been so kind as to send some advanced information on their hardware roadmaps. Normally this is so uncommon as to be unheard of! But there are such diverging hardware plans for the upcoming year(s) that it has been made necessary. the line of work we're in demands we have advance knowledge of these plans. They are of the magnitude of when they transitioned over to the PowerPC from 680X0 or the transition to PCI from NuBus. Soon (in a couple of Quarters) Apple's hardware will be radically different than what it is now.Some of the more obscure stuff are the methods of input, output, but some other details focus on SOC develpments from Motorola and Apple and to some extent, IBM. Future personal devices from Apple will have more of an intimate relationship with Apple's desktop hardware, and to a point an integral relationship. Future desktop systems (iMac type machines and modular machines) will have bundled gadgets suited for specific uses (for example: an iPod bundled with an iMac where the iPod would slide in a slot in the imac made for it) depending on the desktop system it comes with. Some of the examples cited indicated to me atleast, that Apple want's to expand it's core business from just consumer and professional graphics artists to business and media creation.

Some of the ideas are novel but not so revolutionary. But other ideas are simply innovative and original. It gives you confidence that Apple not only wants to live on the cutting edge but thrive there. Some of this will become apparent this upcoming expo. The next couple of years will be busy for us because new opportunities have been presented to us. Some will come to fruition soon hopefully.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm afraid I have been kept out of the loop. In fact most of our department has been kept out. While we have been working on G4 based Macs, some of our colleagues have not only had access to advanced machines but intimate knowledge of them. I only came to find out about them recently. It has been abnormally secretive.The good news is that the machines are VASTLY superior to the ones we have in our possesion. I believe they are based on the MPC8500 processor we know as the G5 and the speeds are nothing short of breakthrough (in Apple terms). The documentation I saw detailed machines in the 1.2, 1.4 and 1.6GHz range. I have yet to see the cases. But it may be that this week they will have to let us in on it as our department will eventually be dealing exclusively with them. Talk to you soon.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some more details on G5 based Mac's. The G5 does not use the MPX protocol to communicate with onboard devices but a never before used protocol called RapidIO. RapidIO is very similar to a highspeed serial bus like Firewire, but works at higher speed because it is a bus strictly for PCB (the actual motherboard). Included on die is a 333MHz 64bit memory controller for DDR-SDRAM. But the controller is flexible. It is unknown what speed the controller will run the memory in Apple machines. The 512KB L2 cache has a 256bit interface with the core that is 8-way set associate. The L3 cache interface can address up to 8MB or 16MB, I don't fully understand the docs I got on them. But it is 2 way set associative. I have little information on motherboard specifics. I also have little information on PCI specifics and this is where most of my job concentrates on. Seems very little hardware testing has been done outside Apple labs and what has is very secretive. I can only assume that the PCI bridge is not that different than past PowerMacs and therefore did not warrent excessive testing. I hope this is the case.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cheers!

Dave
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post #382 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by murk:
<strong>Here's another quote from codename over at Think Secret. It's in the iPhoto? iCam? thread.

---------
You heard it here first: G2000
--------
</strong><hr></blockquote>

the G2000 was the original codename for the G5.
post #383 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by msp:
<strong>

the G2000 was the original codename for the G5.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sounds about right, it is suppose to scale from 800mgh- 1.6ghz

Here's some (old?) info they linked to <a href="http://www.mackido.com/Hardware/G2000.html" target="_blank">G2000</a>
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post #384 of 490
&lt;bump above the pad locks&gt;
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post #385 of 490
Codename referred to <a href="http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2607921,00.html" target="_blank">this</a> article. Keep in mind that there are many here who think that Codename is a former (current) member here by the name of PowermacG4, further more there are many here that think that POwermacG4 is Nick DePlume from ThinkSecret, furthermore Nick has never been shy to say even on his front page that he is close with Matthew Rothenberg and has actually co-written articles with him on eWeek. The story that Codename linked to is written by Matthew.

Just food for thought...
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post #386 of 490
I'm not Nick.
post #387 of 490
This is from <a href="http://www.macuser.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.macuser.co.uk</a>
[quote]Sources close to Apple US have indicated to MacUser that the company will announce its first 1GHz Power Mac on Monday.

Although details of the product are still unclear, the new Power Mac is believed to use the next generation of G4 processor, previously codenamed Apollo. This chip is likely to be called either the PowerPC 7445 or 7455, according to sources familiar with the project.

Other features about the new Mac remain unclear, although it is understood that the fastest configuration is unlikely to be immediately available.

Motorola?s current roadmap for the G4 series of processors calls for the product to achieve speeds of over 1GHz during the coming year, suggesting that the new chip will not be the end of the line for the G4. The next generation PowerPC, G5, is on course for delivery in the autumn, with speeds beginning at 800MHz and increasing over its lifetime to beyond 2GHz.
<hr></blockquote>
As far as i remember (usually not that far) MacUser has been on the ball as far as predictions go. I guess 1Ghz is supposed to blow us away... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
post #388 of 490
Actually they have been less than accurate. In fact, I doubt they have any real info this time because somehow they know the part number for the processor but have no info on the machine itself? Do they have a motorola source or Apple source?
post #389 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>Actually they have been less than accurate. In fact, I doubt they have any real info this time because somehow they know the part number for the processor but have no info on the machine itself? Do they have a motorola source or Apple source?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, no. Motorola have press releases on the Apollo, its the MMC7460. Whilst 7455 might have been possible, 7445 would have been silly, implying an incremental update to the 7440 rather than the 7450.

Michael
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post #390 of 490
The writing is on the wall people. There is no real G5 - and there won't be. The G4 and its offspring are what are going to power Apple for a while - this year and next. Will there be processors called G5? - Yes - but they will not be what people think. The application of a faster bus and other board modifications will keep Apple competative.
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post #391 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by anand:
<strong>The writing is on the wall people. There is no real G5 - and there won't be. The G4 and its offspring are what are going to power Apple for a while - this year and next. Will there be processors called G5? - Yes - but they will not be what people think. The application of a faster bus and other board modifications will keep Apple competative.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I expect the G5 to arrive in summer. So it will be there in a year (it always happens this way). Why? The reports from "Dorsal M" all sound reasonable - unless he is too a gifted story teller. So I think there are indeed G5 test boxes out there. But it is a long way from a prototype to the shipping box. Remember those UMA2/DDR rumors?
post #392 of 490
Doral, what is the color of the motherboards with the prototypes you indicated with USB1.1 and 800Mbps FireWire: red, stripped, grey, green, yellow or blue?

If you're going to say what I think you are, then MWSF shall indeed be very interesting.

[ 01-03-2002: Message edited by: Nostradamus ]</p>
post #393 of 490
There is a G5, Apple is using it and it is damn near ready for production. I personally don't think we'll see it for a few months,
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post #394 of 490
I'd say MWNY is G5 time, in fact it has to be, as the G4 will have topped out by then. The G5 is key to Apple's survival, a hell lot of long time Mac users are seriousl looking at PCs these days.

G-News
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post #395 of 490
[quote]There is a G5, Apple is using it and it is damn near ready for production. I personally don't think we'll see it for a few months,
<hr></blockquote>

So Apple can still announce it, like they did with the 7450 G4s. Jobs announced those at MWSF and they didn't ship until March. Although, I'm sure part of the reason is that the 500 MHz Powermacs were simply not selling, and Apple figured they could make more money by taking pre-orders for the new G4s, rather than selling their "current" powermacs. Hope I explained that clearly...
post #396 of 490
interesting. the posts of dorsal's actually coincide well with what apple is hyping. looks like this might be what we're to expect. i'd certainly believe this over the iWalk.
post #397 of 490
MacUser UK is spot on. Notice they don't speculate on the i device like the rest of them.
post #398 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by geezer1:
<strong>MacUser UK is spot on. Notice they don't speculate on the i device like the rest of them.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What bothers me about their article is the G5 due in Autumn starting at 800ghz.

How would that work? Figure G4 Apollos at 1.2ghz- 1.4ghz by Aumtumn then release a G5 at 800hmz? That would be a bad move. Put it in the iMac til it matures? Yea, and then have Apollo G4s at 1.4gh and G5 iMacs at 800hmz- try to explain that one to the public. Going by thier info it makes no sence to debut the G5 @ 800mhz. Why?
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post #399 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>
What bothers me about their article is the G5 due in Autumn starting at 800ghz. Going by thier info it makes no sence to debut the G5 @ 800mhz. Why?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Motorola says the G5 will be 800-2000 mhz. That does not mean that the G5 Apple will use will start at 800 mhz (the 8540 will be even available @ 600 mhz), it just means that they read something on Motorolas site that they did not understand - so forget about everything else they said.
post #400 of 490
[quote]Originally posted by macrumorzz:
<strong>

Motorola says the G5 will be 800-2000 mhz. That does not mean that the G5 Apple will use will start at 800 mhz (the 8540 will be even available @ 600 mhz), it just means that they read something on Motorolas site that they did not understand - so forget about everything else they said.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I know what Moto said, I was commenting to the poster above who said MacUser was spot on. If they were why would they be writing about that we already know and not themselves know Apple wouldn't release a 800mhz G5 but they (MU) would say that the G5 would be released in autumn?

Make sence?
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