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Games on the Intel Macs

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
There is a lot of discussion on how the switch to Intel will effect software development for Macs. What I'm pondering concerns the notoriously poor support for game development or game porting to the Mac.

Who thinks that there will be more support in this arena for Macs? Or do you plan on loading Windows on your Mac just so you can play the latest PC games?

Either way the PC game market just got a boost from the Mac community.
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

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"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
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post #2 of 35
i talked to this w/ my brother, and he said games that are for pc/MS operating system wont be able to work w/ the new intel/mac machines coming out
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post #3 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ragingloogie
i talked to this w/ my brother, and he said games that are for pc/MS operating system wont be able to work w/ the new intel/mac machines coming out

Not on OS X. However, Apple's current official stance is that one can load Windows on an Intel Mac. A dual boot Mac. So if this is true you should be able to play Windows games when you boot into Windows.
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
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"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
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post #4 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by LiquidR
Not on OS X. However, Apple's current official stance is that one can load Windows on an Intel Mac. A dual boot Mac. So if this is true you should be able to play Windows games when you boot into Windows.

And that could become a major problem. Developers could lost interest to port their games to OS X just because most people will have this dual boot setup. On the other hand, expect porting to be easier since the CPU architecture will be the same.
post #5 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by LiquidR
Not on OS X. However, Apple's current official stance is that one can load Windows on an Intel Mac. A dual boot Mac. So if this is true you should be able to play Windows games when you boot into Windows.

so the intel/macs will be able to run both os x and windows on one machine?
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post #6 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
And that could become a major problem. Developers could lost interest to port their games to OS X just because most people will have this dual boot setup. On the other hand, expect porting to be easier since the CPU architecture will be the same.

I don't think so, how many people want to have a dual boot system to begin with? I doubt developers want to or will rely on people having two operating systems on their computer to justify dropping support for a whole OS.
post #7 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by PeePeeSee
I don't think so, how many people want to have a dual boot system to begin with? I doubt developers want to or will rely on people having two operating systems on their computer to justify dropping support for a whole OS.

prolly... but you do get those people out there who use mac os x for everything except games b/c it wont play the games it has, so then those people have window boxes just to play games on... so those people are hoping for 2 operating systems on 1 machine despite how much it doesnt make sense... but when i talked to my brother about it... he said that the new intel/mac machines wont be able to play windows games anyway....
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post #8 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by ragingloogie
so the intel/macs will be able to run both os x and windows on one machine?

This is far from certain. The comments that LiquidR was talking about were very specifically about the developer boxes, and not about the final product. I would not expect Apple to do much to specifically prevent the final boxes from running Windows.

But Apple will probably make their own motherboard designs (possibly custom variants on the Intel reference designs), and therefor Windows will not support these designs without someone doing the work. And since Apple would be the only one in a place to do this work, it won't get done fast.

How the Darwin project play into this (which Apple is under no obligation to continue), and to what level Windows would need to be modified (and if that were even possible)... well those are guesses that no-one is in a position to make.

All of this hinges on a whole series of decisions that have probably not even been made at Apple, so anyone who tells you they know is deluding you.
post #9 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by ragingloogie
prolly... but you do get those people out there who use mac os x for everything except games b/c it wont play the games it has, so then those people have window boxes just to play games on... so those people are hoping for 2 operating systems on 1 machine despite how much it doesnt make sense... but when i talked to my brother about it... he said that the new intel/mac machines wont be able to play windows games anyway....

Well it's pretty obvious that you aren't going to simply just be able to run a windows program in OS X and have it work, it will take a rewrite of the program to some degree to get it to work.

Easier than porting it to PPC/OS X? I have no idea.
post #10 of 35
i dunno what will be easier. i just know, that if that intel/mac machine runs 2 operating systems, that MS wont be right on an apple... i mean... i left ms to apple for many reasons, and if it goes to a mac, then... i dunno what ill do... its not right
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post #11 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Karl Kuehn
This is far from certain. The comments that LiquidR was talking about were very specifically about the developer boxes, and not about the final product. I would not expect Apple to do much to specifically prevent the final boxes from running Windows.

But Apple will probably make their own motherboard designs (possibly custom variants on the Intel reference designs), and therefor Windows will not support these designs without someone doing the work. And since Apple would be the only one in a place to do this work, it won't get done fast.

How the Darwin project play into this (which Apple is under no obligation to continue), and to what level Windows would need to be modified (and if that were even possible)... well those are guesses that no-one is in a position to make.

All of this hinges on a whole series of decisions that have probably not even been made at Apple, so anyone who tells you they know is deluding you.



http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1120

Quote:
On the other hand, Schiller said Apple won't intentionally stop users from trying to run Microsoft's Windows operating system on the forthcoming Intel-based Macs, although there will be no official support from Apple on that front.

"That doesn't preclude someone from running [Windows] on a Mac. They probably will," he said.
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
Reply
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
Reply
post #12 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by PeePeeSee
I don't think so, how many people want to have a dual boot system to begin with? I doubt developers want to or will rely on people having two operating systems on their computer to justify dropping support for a whole OS.

peepeesee hits the nail right on the head.

Developers would have to make a big assumption that people will suddenly rush out and install a 300$ Windows XP on their Macintels. They will have to assume that people will have the technical knowledge to set their Macs up for dual-boot.

Mac marketshare won't change....it may even grow, a lot. Why developers will suddenly drop Mac support is beyond me.
post #13 of 35
I think that many developers will weather the transition if only to see what happens on the other side. If Apple marketshare increases then the devs. who ported over to OS X86 will reap the benefits. And, I don't think that many users will be running dual boot configs on their systems.

The non techie people just want it to work. Of course the HaXors will try the dual boot or triple boot configs but they are not huge in marketshare.

But, what do I know. Last week I thought PPC was the way!
post #14 of 35
I wonder how much more financially viable it would be now to port the likes of Halflife 2- or Halflife 3 for that matter, now that there's one less stumbling block. I know, DirectX support has a wee part to play in all this.

Also, wasn't there talk, not so recently, about how OS X could become a major development tool for games due to some of the software now available- can't remember any names or anything, maybe it was called 'game builder' or something.
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post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by ragingloogie
i talked to this w/ my brother, and he said games that are for pc/MS operating system wont be able to work w/ the new intel/mac machines coming out

And your brother is the expert on the cross-platform game development industry.

unless you can prove otherwise.
post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
And your brother is the expert on the cross-platform game development industry.

unless you can prove otherwise.

never said he was an expert, but he knows his stuff... and knows what there is about computers and what not... and he knows the types of software that the pc games have and he can accuratly tell me whether or not the new machines will run the pc games... and he said it wont... but that was also before the talk of running windows and os x... i just asked if it would be able to run it w/ mac os x on there... so... if i went and told him about talk of 2 operating systems, his answer might still be the same... but at the same time, it might not be.... ypu yup...
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post #17 of 35
It isn't a matter of can or can't. If these companies took the time to find a company that would code a version for OS X there is no reason they wouldn't work.

Will the games written for windows run on OS X out of the box? Of course not, why would anyone think otherwise?
post #18 of 35
I'm no expert but couldn't there be (if developers bothered to do it) a 3rd party version of DirectX similar to how GIMP-Print kind of duplicates otherwise proprietary printer drivers? In other words, copy all the junk needed to run games on Intel PCs but without needing Windows proper...

Could this be done? Between Linux and MacIntel users, maybe it could happen?
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post #19 of 35
i dunno much about game developement... but if they made a game that was compatible, that would be great, but it would defeat my purpose... b/c i have pc games, and i'd rather use those games i have so i dont have to rebuy the games, try to save a couple hundred $ worth of games...
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post #20 of 35
Hm, just looked at this .

Does anyone know how successful/relevant this product has been. There was a bit of a mini hoohaa over it a number of months (years?) ago, then nothing.

I especially liked the little animation showing you how it works Looks really easy, yeah?!
Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is mearly energy condensed through a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, life is only a dream and we...
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post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by jumpyspider
Hm, just looked at this .

Does anyone know how successful/relevant this product has been. There was a bit of a mini hoohaa over it a number of months (years?) ago, then nothing.

I especially liked the little animation showing you how it works Looks really easy, yeah?!

hehe... didnt even know that product existed.... guess im oblivious, huh?
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post #22 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by ragingloogie
i dunno much about game developement... but if they made a game that was compatible, that would be great, but it would defeat my purpose... b/c i have pc games, and i'd rather use those games i have so i dont have to rebuy the games, try to save a couple hundred $ worth of games...

Well, you could keep your PC to game on. Or if you purchase an Intel Mac then you could load Windows on it also and just boot to Windows when you want to play your games.
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
Reply
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
Reply
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by LiquidR
Well, you could keep your PC to game on. Or if you purchase an Intel Mac then you could load Windows on it also and just boot to Windows when you want to play your games.

does this mean that the intel mac will be able to run os x and also windows and you can boot up either one depending on what you wanted to do????
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post #24 of 35
Thread Starter 
From Schiller's statements I gather so.
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
Reply
"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...
Reply
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by jumpyspider
I wonder how much more financially viable it would be now to port the likes of Halflife 2- or Halflife 3 for that matter, now that there's one less stumbling block. I know, DirectX support has a wee part to play in all this.

DirectX is a huge stumbling block. I doubt Valve will port HL2 to Mac-on-Intel, because they'd have to rewrite all their DX code to use OpenGL instead.
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by ragingloogie
does this mean that the intel mac will be able to run os x and also windows and you can boot up either one depending on what you wanted to do????

It's possible, but I doubt it will be easy at first. For one thing, we'll have to see what boot system Apple uses (BIOS, EFI or something else), and wait for Windows to support that. Even beyond that, there may be custom chips on Apple's motherboard that would require Windows drivers to be written.

And it's still unsupported hardware, so Apple won't be able to help you set it up, and most software companies will probably laugh when you ask them why their program is crashing.

I still think our best bet will be Virtual PC. Microsoft stands to make a tidy profit by porting VPC to Mac-on-Intel. Especially since this should allow them to access the 3D graphics hardware in the machine, allow us to finally play games in VPC on our Macs.
post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Kesh
It's possible, but I doubt it will be easy at first. For one thing, we'll have to see what boot system Apple uses (BIOS, EFI or something else), and wait for Windows to support that. Even beyond that, there may be custom chips on Apple's motherboard that would require Windows drivers to be written.

And it's still unsupported hardware, so Apple won't be able to help you set it up, and most software companies will probably laugh when you ask them why their program is crashing.

I still think our best bet will be Virtual PC. Microsoft stands to make a tidy profit by porting VPC to Mac-on-Intel. Especially since this should allow them to access the 3D graphics hardware in the machine, allow us to finally play games in VPC on our Macs.

neat, thanks.. well.. we'll see what happens... maybe ill invest in a flat pannel screen, that way i can sit my pc computer next to my iMac and then i dont have to leave the room to go from both computers...
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post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by jumpyspider
DirectX support

I read on /. that DirectX is no more.

Perhaps I read that wrong, but who knows.
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Nak
I read on /. that DirectX is no more.

Perhaps I read that wrong, but who knows.

You read wrong. They're still using the exact same code, it's just going to get a different name than "DirectX 10" when it comes out. Which doesn't make it any easier to port code to the Mac.
post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by Kesh
Which doesn't make it any easier to port code to the Mac.

Meh.\ I think all apps should be like the people at Blizzard make games, cross platform. That would be nice. But I'm more hardware based than software when it comes to Windows, so I'm sure those who write code will have mouthfulls to say about that procedure.
post #31 of 35
I can't really see the day developers will finally write portable code (but I thank Blizzard for their efforts...you rock Bliz...well, if you could finally fix the WoW bugs)...but it would be nice if Apple could license Fairplay in exchange for DirectX.

MS could have a piece of the music market...Apple could have a piece of the game market. Best of both worlds, IMO.
post #32 of 35
yup yup it'd be nice if it did mac having a piece of gaming market... then i wouldnt need my pc anymore
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post #33 of 35
I like what Epic did with UT2004. Releasing the games to both platforms at the same time.
post #34 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by ragingloogie
yup yup it'd be nice if it did mac having a piece of gaming market... then i wouldnt need my pc anymore

if that happens i'll throw my pc out
post #35 of 35
Quote:
Originally posted by wingk1314
if that happens i'll throw my pc out

so would i.. well.. i'd prolly try to sell it firt.. b/c w/ that monitor and box.. its still pretty good.. prolly get 4-500$ for the whole set up.... but yea... that'd be nice if the intel macs could do that
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