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Notes: Mac OS X 10.4.2, Dell on OS X, Midtown store

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
Mac OS X 10.4.2 Development Winds Down

As expected, it appears that Apple over the last few days continued its work on Mac OS X 10.4.2, the second maintenance release to Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger, pumping out several new builds of the software update.

According to reports already present on Internet blog sites, the company on Tuesday delivered build 8C32 of Mac OS X 10.4.2 to its developer community, which weighed in at approximately 55MB.

Rumor has it that the latest build delivers minor corrections to QuickTime, AirPort, and DVD Player, bringing the total number of bug fixes and enhancements expected in the update to just over 90.

Based on recent developer chatter and the sheer number of fixes rumored for inclusion in Mac OS X 10.4.2, it appears the system update will be one of the most significant in terms of overall stability and system reliability in recent times.

It's believed that Apple hopes to squash every known glitch in the Tiger operating system with the release of Mac OS X 10.4.2, where the prior Mac OS X 10.4.1 Tiger update was reserved for the most immediate and critical incompatibilities.

Dell Happy to Market Mac OS X

In an article on Fortune.com, journalist David Kirkpatrick reveals that he recently emailed Michael Dell, the cofounder and now chairman of Dell, and asked if he'd be interested in the Mac OS, assuming that Apple chief executive Steve Jobs ever decides to license it to PC companies.

"If Apple decides to open the Mac OS to others, we would be happy to offer it to our customers," Dell reportedly wrote back in an email.

Says Kirkpatrick, "It's the first time any PC industry executive has openly shown enthusiasm for selling machines with Apple's software. Though that's all Dell would say for the record, I suspect his interest is not unknown to Jobs."

Apple Store Midtown

As if there was any doubt that Apple will open a very elaborate flagship retail store in the heart of Manhattan this year, a new company job listing posted to Craigslis pretty much spells it out and further confirms the General Motors Building as the site.

The company is seeking both full and part time "Apple Retail Creatives" to "support the vision of creating a legendary gathering place to engage and educate our customers in surprising and delighting ways," the listing says.

At the base of the job posting, Apple states that the primary job location is the "GM Plaza."
post #2 of 51
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooo.

Apple Can not let delll use mac os x on there computers. Thats just wrong. Apple would lose all its syyle
(in my opinion)
Mithi
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Mithi
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post #3 of 51
Whats so wrong with them big ugly cheap plasic dell boxs anyways?
post #4 of 51
You guys can sit around here and look at apple like a religion. I will look at Apple like a business. Licensing is key. Licensing = a win for Apple. Licensing OSX to other OEM's would open up a huge platform for the Mac.
post #5 of 51
*sniff - looks like our baby's growing up! *sob
post #6 of 51
image if dells did all ship with osx, talk about market penetration. If i was Steve Jobs, i would do it just to see the look on Bill Gates' face!!!

Though, i do think that apple should get some pantners on x86, SONY could be a good one, to name one.

stu
post #7 of 51
oh, look, michael dell is willing to sell any box loaded with anything that people will pay good money to buy.

BIG F'N SURPRISE.

secondly, while microsoft used licensing back in the day to be the biggest now, last i checked, that big-ness has come back to nip them in the hindquarters, as they're now too big and have to support too many pieces of hardware floating about to even tie their shoes without splitting their pants. you think steve likes the idea of apple becoming that?
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #8 of 51
Interesting move by Dell.

More importantly, it is GREAT to read Apple is still developing fixes for 10.4.2.

I really hope it is true that the .2 release will FINALLY make Tiger behave as it should. The bugs in syncing, .mac, mail, memory leaks, etc., etc. have been painful and very un-Apple.

I was thinking that it would be .4, maybe .3, before Tiger was acceptable quality. All will be forgiven--but not forgotten--if Apple pulls this off with .2.

Fingers crossed...
post #9 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by scavanger
You guys can sit around here and look at apple like a religion. I will look at Apple like a business. Licensing is key. Licensing = a win for Apple. Licensing OSX to other OEM's would open up a huge platform for the Mac.

You obviously don't understand the business.

If Apple licenses OSX for standard PC's:

1. Microsoft stops development of Office and Media Player for OSX immediately, and the Mac platform is dead except for the smallest number of hobbiest. See the Amiga fan sites if you are curious what it will look like.

2. Apple's hardware business goes to the floor since very few people will pay Apple prices just for nice cases.
post #10 of 51
I agree. If Apple licenses to Dell, they will hurt--unless they want to lose all their hardware sales.

Not only that, Dells are quite crappy, IMO, especially all their entry level models. The workstation at my office is a Dell, and in the first 3 months, it fatally crashed 4 times, requiring a reformat each time. It had its third hard drive installed at about 6 months. Before you say it, I'm not a PC newbie. I've built maybe a dozen systems and have never had this kind of trouble running MS office. I wasn't the only person in the office with these issues either. If Apple allows OSX to be installed on this kind of crap, who knows what it will do for their reputation of "simply working." I know Dell is planning a "premium" line of PCs soon, which must really say something about the rest of their desktop product line. I still think Apple needs to keep things proprietary, if only to protect the image of system stability that helps them sell systems.
post #11 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by BWhaler
You obviously don't understand the business.

If Apple licenses OSX for standard PC's:

1. Microsoft stops development of Office and Media Player for OSX immediately, and the Mac platform is dead except for the smallest number of hobbiest. See the Amiga fan sites if you are curious what it will look like.

2. Apple's hardware business goes to the floor since very few people will pay Apple prices just for nice cases.

On top of that, the Macintosh experience (trouble free computing, very few crashes etc.) is largely due to the fact that Apple "makes the whole widget".

scavanger, I'll never say never, but controlling the hardware has always been a big part of the DNA at Apple. I don't see that changing any time soon.

Also, if Apple can compete on price with their hardware (and I think they will, more and more) then why let Dell make money selling hardware? Apple can make all the hardware sales themselves -- direct.
post #12 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by Wingnut
I agree. If Apple licenses to Dell, they will hurt--unless they want to lose all their hardware sales.

What if Apple licensed Mac OS X to Dell, Sony, hp, etc. but NOT iLife?

That would be the clear differential between buying a Mac and a clone, that Apple's machine come bundled with iLife (and maybe even Pages, Numbers and Keynote) but either a) The customer would have to purchase these separately with a clone machine (Apple wins) or b) Dell, Sony, hp pay an additional license fee to bundle iLife and/or iWork (again Apple wins).
post #13 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by BWhaler
You obviously don't understand the business.

If Apple licenses OSX for standard PC's:

1. Microsoft stops development of Office and Media Player for OSX immediately, and the Mac platform is dead except for the smallest number of hobbiest. See the Amiga fan sites if you are curious what it will look like.

2. Apple's hardware business goes to the floor since very few people will pay Apple prices just for nice cases.

That's nonsense. If this happens, it won't be for at least a year, possibly two. If Apple is working on "Numbers", and can put a version of Filemaker into the product then they would have a good suite.

Both Keynote and Pages are going to be upgraded.

If MS goes to XML as they are saying that they will, then file compatability will be easy.

Besides, Apple and any PC companies they might be working with would be aware of this, and would have something to offer. OpenOffice would also work.

Apple could always have Dell and others make sure that their machines are compatable. Apple used to test clone machines for a fee. They could do it here as well.


As for this huge update. I now think that I know why Apple came out with 10.4 when it did, warts and all. They didn't want anything to distract from the "we are going to Intel" focus of the dev. conference. That was worth releasing pretty buggy software.

Now they want to hurry and fix it so that the problems, again, don't distract from their plans.
post #14 of 51
Microsoft couldn't drop office development with out the risk of having more antitrust lawsuits filed. Hardware margins are shit in every oem but Apple for the most part, becuase Apple's prices are higher. Apple made I beleive a billion dollars on software this past year. Given there small market, you have to wonder how much they would make in a licensed market. Apple will do whats ever best for it's business. I beleive that is licensing, there is really no other way for Apple to overtake microsoft with out licensing.
post #15 of 51
Why would they want to? MS is big and slow and dumb. Apple is small and fast and smart. No reason to ruin their hardware business in order to make money from software licensing.

As others have said, the Mac is successful because you get great software with compatible hardware. It just works. If Apple has to support a million different hardware configurations they'll lose focus of their main business, which has always been hardware sales.
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post #16 of 51
Someone on Engadget made the good point that OS X's marketshare wouldn't neccessarily go through the roof just being licensed by Dell: "One of the reasons Dell is so successfuly [sic] in the business world is because they sell MICROSOFT based machines. Do you think a Fortune 100 company is going to buy a unit from Dell just because they are Dell? No, they bought it because it was a low cost machine that ran WINDOWS."

Also, licensing OS X to other manufacturers means they'd be taking MS head-on in an OS war, and Bill Gates won't play nice. He would likely raise the licensing costs for Windows, and Dell would quickly stop offering OS X in order to cut costs and restore whatever thin profit margin they have these days.

I don't think MS would stop developing Office for Mac, though. As long as there are Mac users willing to buy the software, MS will continue to sell it.
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post #17 of 51
"Mac OS X will only run on Macs. Apple has no plans to sell Mac OS X software to run on PCs," an Apple spokesperson said in an e-mail response to questions about Dell"

fully story here
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...pcworld/121421
post #18 of 51
There are both good and bad things about OSX on Dell's. First of all there is very little margin hardware regardless of the vendor. Microsoft would benefit from OSX growth because adoptors would need to purchase Office for OSX. I am a firm believer that "It's the software stupid". If Steve had not screwed around with IBM years ago at NEXT the OS landscape could very well be much different today. Yes, the uniqueness that is a Mac is wonderful. But from a business stand point you need to look at what will do the most for the brand. OSX has been called the best OS ever by more than just "Mac People". I work for a huge international tech company and we have always been Windows based. I was one of a very few fortunate enough to use a Mac. Things have changed. Recently our head of North America just got a Powerbook! The ability for us to switch to a different OS without having to switch hardware would make it much easier to gain acceptance. If Apple did some exclusive initial offerings with a Dell or Sony it could be kept under control and the driver issue kept in check. It would be foolish not to experiment with options.
post #19 of 51
Everything is fair game these days at Apple.
Nothing would surprise me.

I fully expect multi button mice and I also expect Mac OS to be sold for PC's if it ever does happen to make business sense.

Apple will sell movie online and they will make a tablet and they will make a pda thing and a camera and a game system. Well, perhaps not the last two or three.
post #20 of 51
Quote:
What if Apple licensed Mac OS X to Dell, Sony, hp, etc. but NOT iLife?

Honestly, I don't use iLife that much, and iTunes is already free on both platforms, so I don't see that as a big carrot to convince windows users to buy Mac over Dell hardware.

As for MS competing, yeah, they just might. Maybe worse would happen if Apple went for just OS licenses--maybe they would put WPA into OSX, so you have to ACTIVATE it, just like windows!
post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by Wingnut
I agree. If Apple licenses to Dell, they will hurt--unless they want to lose all their hardware sales.

Not only that, Dells are quite crappy, IMO, especially all their entry level models. The workstation at my office is a Dell, and in the first 3 months, it fatally crashed 4 times, requiring a reformat each time. It had its third hard drive installed at about 6 months. Before you say it, I'm not a PC newbie. I've built maybe a dozen systems and have never had this kind of trouble running MS office. I wasn't the only person in the office with these issues either. If Apple allows OSX to be installed on this kind of crap, who knows what it will do for their reputation of "simply working." I know Dell is planning a "premium" line of PCs soon, which must really say something about the rest of their desktop product line. I still think Apple needs to keep things proprietary, if only to protect the image of system stability that helps them sell systems.



WOW, a pissing contest!

My turn?

I've owned several Dells, and there are several hundred of them where I work, no computer is perfect. However, I've never experienced ANY serious issues with my Dell's, and know of no others from my collegues here at work. Your experience appears to be an exception, for if it were the norm, HOW COULD DELL HOLD THE NUMBER ONE MARKET POSITION?

And yes, I've owned Mac's for over 12 years now, and I use them much more then my Dell PeeCee's (or my Gateway, HP, IBM, and even Zenith over the past 22+ years). I hated System's 7-9. Can you say CRASH? Can you say REINSTALL? I really like OS Hex, however, even now at 10.4.1, guess what? Can you say CRASH? Can you say REINSTALL? It is getting better though. maybe someday it will be as stable as Winblows XP on a Dell!

BTW, I really, really, REALLY hate the Spinning Beachball of Death (SBD), that type of experience absolutely NEVER happens under Winblows XP. From my experience, the Winblows GUI is much more responsive then the OS Hex GUI, and sometimes I really, really, REALLY need to get something done in a hurry! Yes, the overall OS Hex experience is much better than the Winblows XP experience (and boy, do I hate the XP desktop color scheme), Apple just needs to sent the SBD to that gulag in Gitmo!

Whew, THAT was a long wizz.

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #22 of 51
Thanks guys for the amuzing reading and some good laughing along the way.

I have been a Mac user for more than 10 years and personally cannot see Apple Licencing out OS X to anyone and or allowing it to run on non-Mac hardware.

As for the OS Wars there is only one clear winner and that is

Mac OS X

Windows Sux

Just My 2ยข

Rob
post #23 of 51
Office Mac is also a backup strategy. If Windows fails, MS can still rule office apps.
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post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by geekdreams
Why would they want to? MS is big and slow and dumb. Apple is small and fast and smart. No reason to ruin their hardware business in order to make money from software licensing.

As others have said, the Mac is successful because you get great software with compatible hardware. It just works. If Apple has to support a million different hardware configurations they'll lose focus of their main business, which has always been hardware sales.

The world largest software company who kicked apple ass all over the field is big, slow and dumb?. Bill Gates dumb?. I'm an apple fan like anyone but the last thing Microsoft is, is dumb. This company is not dumb. They may be sloppy, they may be big, they may even be slow but dumb, certainly not. The surest way to defeat is to understimate your opponent.

As to apple just works, My mac has crashed 15 times in the last month. Apple used to make great software but not anymore. Their quality has definetly dropped. I still love apple for the experience (the GUI, relative lack of virus, etc) but their quality has most definetly dropped. As to ruining their hardware business.. what is so sacred about the hardware business? There are case after case of big companies in america not adapting and going the way of the dinosaur. The day may come when licensing makes sense. I have no idea when that day is for apple but stating that apple would never license to protect their hardware business is a little naive. Hardware is a commodity. Anyone can build a mac (if apple allows it). There is nothing special in putting the components together. Not everyone can create OS X. The software is infinetly more valuable than the hardware.
post #25 of 51
I think it's not outside the realm of possibility that apple might do limited licensing to key manufacturers in the future. I could see apple doing it if the name 'apple' for computers starts to become as powerful as the name 'ipod' for mp3 players. If apple gains substantial clout, they could probably work out licensing deals that would enable them to expand their market share substantially without marginalizing their own products. Of course, I don't see this happening until well after the intel switch has established itself, and even then, it'd most likely be limited to only a couple manufacturers.

When you consider the fact that HP sells Apple iPods that are identical to Apple's iPod save for an added logo or two, it doesn't seem too outside the conceivable that apple could work up a similar type licensing deal, either with OS X, or even with a model of their computers. The Mac mini from HP type thing. *shrug*

Either way, I think that the potential for massive growth in apple's market share is truly great and may very well be realized in the next 5 years, as this happens, their stock stands to double all over again, if that happens, wrong robot is going to be a *very* pleased person.
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post #26 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by wnurse
The world largest software company who kicked apple ass all over the field is big, slow and dumb?. Bill Gates dumb?. I'm an apple fan like anyone but the last thing Microsoft is, is dumb. This company is not dumb. They may be sloppy, they may be big, they may even be slow but dumb, certainly not. The surest way to defeat is to understimate your opponent.

You appear to be overlooking the fact that they broke the law on numerous occasions to obtain their success.

Is MS dumb? Now? Yes. It did get big and bureaucratic and the leaders have lost their edge.

Need proof?

Microsoft Bob.
They missed the internet
They missed the importance of search
The missed the music business.

And even recently, with Jobs announcing iTunes 4.9 with podcasting. The next week Microsofties were calling around promising "amazing podcasting functionality in Longhorn." Pretty pathetic.

MSoft used to be lean and mean and smart. But they have lost their roots. And don't ever forget the illegal tactics they used to gain their success. You don't have to be smart to be a successful convicted felon.
post #27 of 51
franksargent,
Of all the Dell's I have worked with in the past 2 years, all of them have had physical defect and required RMA. One had a bad power supply, our work PCs had Hard drives recalled. Another friend had the entire machine replaced because they didn't know what was wrong with it. We are talking about 3 machines I had a first person experience with, but also consider my office has probably 500 machines involved in the HD recall. Is a faulty HD Dell's fault? In this case, I say yes. Just about everyone knows that Maxtor drives run quite hot, yet Dell chose to cram them in their tiny, poorly ventilated Optiplex cases anyway. I imagine they saved $5 a PC, until they had to replace thousands of them. Sure, everything is fixed under warranty, but it's not worth having a computer that can't keep a hard drive for more than 6 months. Dell can hold the number one position because people blame Windows for everything. Dell and Gateway both used to make great PCs, until they started making cheap PCs. Gateway fell apart because they lost their reputation. It's very possible Dell could do the same thing.

btw, it's not a pissing contest, I'm speaking from user experience. That normally counts for something.
post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by BWhaler
You appear to be overlooking the fact that they broke the law on numerous occasions to obtain their success.

Is MS dumb? Now? Yes. It did get big and bureaucratic and the leaders have lost their edge.

Need proof?

Microsoft Bob.
They missed the internet
They missed the importance of search
The missed the music business.

And even recently, with Jobs announcing iTunes 4.9 with podcasting. The next week Microsofties were calling around promising "amazing podcasting functionality in Longhorn." Pretty pathetic.

MSoft used to be lean and mean and smart. But they have lost their roots. And don't ever forget the illegal tactics they used to gain their success. You don't have to be smart to be a successful convicted felon.

Hmm.. lets see

Pop quiz.

1. Which company, despite being small was able to steal windows from larger company with better lawyers

A. IBM
B. Microsoft.

2. Which company, despite being more innovative, failed to patent it's user interface thus allowing it's competitor to reduce it to near irrelevance

A. Microsoft
B. Apple.

3. Who was the C.E.O of the company that was dumb enough not to patent his company revolutionary GUI.

A. Bill Gates
B. Steven P Jobs.

4. Which company destroyed Visalcac and Wordperfect

A. Apple
B. Microsoft.

5. Which company has destroyed numerous competitors by being ruthless and taking no prisoners

A. Apple
B. Microsoft

6. Which company you cannot absolutely dismiss if that company decides to enter your product space

A. Apple
B. Microsoft.

7. Which company has had the most failures

A. Microsoft (Microsoft Bob, missing the internet, missing importance of search, missing music business)
B. Apple (the cube, Copeland, Failing to allow clones thus consigning themselves to be nearly irrelevant, Newton, Missing enterprise market, Apple Lisa).

If you answered A to any of the questions above, give yourself a 0. If you answer B to any question above, give yourself a score of 1. If your score is 7. You are a genius, a regular einstein.

In fact, i am willing to bet microsoft has more failures than apple. Sometimes, more failures indicates more aggressiveness. Microsoft has more failures than I do in business. They have numerous, i have 0. They are a multibillion company, I have 0 revenues. It's always cute to list microsoft failures without realizing that they were at least trying things. They were doers, not thinkers. The more things you try, the more things you fail at. Listing microsoft failures is really irrelevant because so what?. For every area they failed to forsee, they managed to dominate. Less innovative does not equate to being dumb. Besides, there is no prize for being first to market. Being first to market did not help apple, did it? (GUI, newton, etc)

And don't be smug about itunes 4.9. Apple did not invent podcasting and they sure as hell did not forsee it. They are stealing the idea themselves. So what if microsoft will implement it later? Should we give apple a cookie for stealing the idea first?. As to some of microsoft tactics being illegal, yeah sure but that shows microsoft adapts. At first they were small and could not enforce their will, as they got bigger, they were able to enforce their will. If you think apple does not admire that, then you are not paying attention. Apple is doing same thing with Ipod. In fact, Apple is doing exactly what microsoft would have done with the Ipod. I think Steve Jobs has learned his lesson.
In business, no one cares if you are mother theresa. As a stockholder, i could care less if Steve wants to be fair, I want him to crush the competition. Finally, Jobs has seen the light. Business is about competition. No company gets points for being nice. The only reason apple fans harp on that is because apple lost. No current apple fan seems to have a problem with the way apple is treating the competition with the Ipod. I don't see any of you losing sleep over this. Where are the people shouting "apple, be fair!!". The losers always complain. Apple had more market share than microsoft at one point. That they allowed a company with less market share to bully them to a 5% market share is pathetic, don't you think?
post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by Wingnut
franksargent,
Of all the Dell's I have worked with in the past 2 years, all of them have had physical defect and required RMA. One had a bad power supply, our work PCs had Hard drives recalled. Another friend had the entire machine replaced because they didn't know what was wrong with it. We are talking about 3 machines I had a first person experience with, but also consider my office has probably 500 machines involved in the HD recall. Is a faulty HD Dell's fault? In this case, I say yes. Just about everyone knows that Maxtor drives run quite hot, yet Dell chose to cram them in their tiny, poorly ventilated Optiplex cases anyway. I imagine they saved $5 a PC, until they had to replace thousands of them. Sure, everything is fixed under warranty, but it's not worth having a computer that can't keep a hard drive for more than 6 months. Dell can hold the number one position because people blame Windows for everything. Dell and Gateway both used to make great PCs, until they started making cheap PCs. Gateway fell apart because they lost their reputation. It's very possible Dell could do the same thing.

btw, it's not a pissing contest, I'm speaking from user experience. That normally counts for something.



Oh right, Apple's NEVER had a recall, NEVER had a class action hardware lawsuit (several DOZEN at last count), NEVER replaced hardware under warrenty?

iPod batteries anyone? Who made the batteries? NOT Apple!

Dell hard drive issues? Who made the hard drives? NOT Dell!

So using your FLAWED logic, you want to blame hardware issues on the software?

You definately ARE NOT Letterman!

I too speak from experience, as do tens of millions of other satisfied Dell users, as do dozens of other satisfied Apple users!

It bare's repeating. Can you say MARKET SHARE? Can you spell MARKET SHARE? Can you read?

Most of us were toilet trained at an early age, what door have you been standing behind? Where do I send the Depends?

All I can say is you must be a Democrat! Can you spell SORE LOSER?

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post #30 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by franksargent


Oh right, Apple's NEVER had a recall, NEVER had a class action hardware lawsuit (several DOZEN at last count), NEVER replaced hardware under warrenty?

iPod batteries anyone? Who made the batteries? NOT Apple!

Dell hard drive issues? Who made the hard drives? NOT Dell!

So using your FLAWED logic, you want to blame hardware issues on the software?

You definately ARE NOT Letterman!

I too speak from experience, as do tens of millions of other satisfied Dell users, as do dozens of other satisfied Apple users!

It bare's repeating. Can you say MARKET SHARE? Can you spell MARKET SHARE? Can you read?

Most of us were toilet trained at an early age, what door have you been standing behind? Where do I send the Depends?

All I can say is you must be a Democrat! Can you spell SORE LOSER?


Frank, that was uncalled for. During the clinton years, the republicans moaned so often about clinton, i thought there were trying to make a porno flick. What's my point?. The minority party always complain about the majority. If that was a measure of who is loser, then frank, we are all losers (actually, republicans, after 6+ years, still complain about clinton). At least democrats stopped complaining about Reagon or Bush Senior. If you want to start a riot, go to a republican convention, take a microphone and shout "I love clinton!!". Good luck making it out alive. In contrast, the day after GW is booted from office, you'd be able to go to a democrat convention, shout "I love GW" and no one would even pay attention to you. We only pay attention to GW cause he's president. Who should we pay attention to? Bob, the next door neighbor? (actually, i should probably pay attention to my next door neighbor.. oh man!!, she is cute, but that is another story).
post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
*sniff - looks like our baby's growing up! *sob

yep, and he/she is turning into a slut. well, teenage hormones and all that, exploring its sexuality and stuff...
post #32 of 51
10.4.2 by the end of this month for the rest of us. sweet
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
That's nonsense. If this happens, it won't be for at least a year, possibly two. If Apple is working on "Numbers", and can put a version of Filemaker into the product then they would have a good suite.

Both Keynote and Pages are going to be upgraded.

If MS goes to XML as they are saying that they will, then file compatability will be easy.

Besides, Apple and any PC companies they might be working with would be aware of this, and would have something to offer. OpenOffice would also work.

First off, XML has absolutely nothing to do with file compatibility. You can output a file for Word 2003 compatibility now. Its not XML. XML makes it easier to read the content from a file, theoretically, depending on how the data is stored. But there's no saying at this point what MS's format is going to look like.

Second, file compatibiltiy doesn't mean 100% compatibile. OpenOffice says its compatible now, but, I believe, still can't handle certain features in Word documents. Plus, OpenOffice is a joke of a program. It tries to be too much like Office and not enough "Hey, what do people really want".

Third, iWork is also a joke, although the spreadsheet will help some. But it isn't close to being a Word killer. Keynote can be OK, depending on what you do presentations and PP for. But Pages lacks a lot of Word features that people use. Plus, its really a replacement for a simple page-layout program more than a Word processor.
post #34 of 51
Firstly, Dell is just making noise to play Apple against Monopolysoft, like they play AMD against Intel, for cheaper prices.

Second, it would be GREAT in the long run, only IF one thing is met. Apple should at least at first license MacOS X out in a VERY limitied fashion, on just certain high-end, and maybe one or two low-end Dell models, and maybe a few HP models. Hey they do it with the HPod. Have both brand names stamped, have Dell/HP do the support. Validate all drivers. Ship. Take cut of profits. Step 3 steal underpants Step 4 ???? Step 5 ???? Step 6 profit!!

Seriously. Paradigm change. Finally admitted it. The OS is the soul of the computer. He's right. As long as it's quality hardware it is. And if they validate Dell hardware and drivers there is no reason they can't make a decent box to run OS X. Sure it's ugly but umm, it's cheap. It sells. Period.

Apple vs Microsoft ROUND 2!
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post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by franksargent


Oh right, Apple's NEVER had a recall, NEVER had a class action hardware lawsuit (several DOZEN at last count), NEVER replaced hardware under warrenty?

iPod batteries anyone? Who made the batteries? NOT Apple!

Dell hard drive issues? Who made the hard drives? NOT Dell!

So using your FLAWED logic, you want to blame hardware issues on the software?

You definately ARE NOT Letterman!

I too speak from experience, as do tens of millions of other satisfied Dell users, as do dozens of other satisfied Apple users!

It bare's repeating. Can you say MARKET SHARE? Can you spell MARKET SHARE? Can you read?

Most of us were toilet trained at an early age, what door have you been standing behind? Where do I send the Depends?

All I can say is you must be a Democrat! Can you spell SORE LOSER?


Hey somebody that knows where the shift key Is GOOD FOR YOU !!!
post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by Wingnut
I agree. If Apple licenses to Dell, they will hurt--unless they want to lose all their hardware sales.

Not only that, Dells are quite crappy, IMO, especially all their entry level models. The workstation at my office is a Dell, and in the first 3 months, it fatally crashed 4 times, requiring a reformat each time. It had its third hard drive installed at about 6 months. Before you say it, I'm not a PC newbie. I've built maybe a dozen systems and have never had this kind of trouble running MS office. I wasn't the only person in the office with these issues either. If Apple allows OSX to be installed on this kind of crap, who knows what it will do for their reputation of "simply working." I know Dell is planning a "premium" line of PCs soon, which must really say something about the rest of their desktop product line. I still think Apple needs to keep things proprietary, if only to protect the image of system stability that helps them sell systems.


Here is MY prediction.

When APPLE ships LEPARD, it will be a self optimizing system, they will ship Mac OS X FOR ALL win/tel HARDWARE.

Mac hardware will then be based the Intel chip that has the most Alpha remnants in it ...


... about 10 TEN TIMES FASTER then the fastest Intel chip today !!!

Windows will run on this be much slow than OS X because they are no optimizing their systems for 64 bit.

And Winblows will also do porely on many other systems for the same reason.
post #37 of 51
franksargent,
You are one rude individual. FYI, I'm not a democrat, but I do kinda look like Date Letterman. However, maybe you shouldn't character assassinate every person who disagrees with you, especially over a PC. You have had good experiences with Dell, mine have been terrible. God forbid someone else might have an opinion different than your seemingly all-knowing mind. Based on your logic, what kind of person does that make you?

If you need a historical example, look at Gateway (2000). In the 90s, Gateway was huge. Into the 21st century, they started making cheaper PCs, and have gradually lost their image of reliability and quality. They have since closed down their outlets and now sell in Best Buys. I merely suggest that Dell could be heading down the same road. Yes, they have the most market share, but that doesn't mean they are the best. Dell sells machines for typically the cheapest price, and they also advertise the most (thanks in large part to a deal with Intel). There are millions of people out there that don't know what makes a PC good or bad, but they do know that they've heard of Dell, and that they are pretty cheap. Offices use Dell because Dell can supply lots of PCs at a good discount. Who at businesses makes the final decision on what PC to purchase? Not the tech department. You base your reasoning on market share. Does that mean GM makes the best cars? Does that mean McDonnald's makes the best hamburger? Quality helps, but price and image go a very very long way.
post #38 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by Wingnut
franksargent,
You are one rude individual. FYI, I'm not a democrat, but I do kinda look like Date Letterman. However, maybe you shouldn't character assassinate every person who disagrees with you, especially over a PC. You have had good experiences with Dell, mine have been terrible. God forbid someone else might have an opinion different than your seemingly all-knowing mind. Based on your logic, what kind of person does that make you?

If you need a historical example, look at Gateway (2000). In the 90s, Gateway was huge. Into the 21st century, they started making cheaper PCs, and have gradually lost their image of reliability and quality. They have since closed down their outlets and now sell in Best Buys. I merely suggest that Dell could be heading down the same road. Yes, they have the most market share, but that doesn't mean they are the best. Dell sells machines for typically the cheapest price, and they also advertise the most (thanks in large part to a deal with Intel). There are millions of people out there that don't know what makes a PC good or bad, but they do know that they've heard of Dell, and that they are pretty cheap. Offices use Dell because Dell can supply lots of PCs at a good discount. Who at businesses makes the final decision on what PC to purchase? Not the tech department. You base your reasoning on market share. Does that mean GM makes the best cars? Does that mean McDonnald's makes the best hamburger? Quality helps, but price and image go a very very long way.

DELL could go belly up at any minute if the public managed to find out what their true finances are, that they have cut margins so thin they are in the red. And accounting tricks have been hiding that fact for a while.

This could easily happen but is NOT likely now that Dell has soo much experience, although if he were distracted somehow, it can't be an easy company to run ...
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
Firstly, Dell is just making noise to play Apple against Monopolysoft, like they play AMD against Intel, for cheaper prices.

Second, it would be GREAT in the long run, only IF one thing is met. Apple should at least at first license MacOS X out in a VERY limitied fashion, on just certain high-end, and maybe one or two low-end Dell models, and maybe a few HP models. Hey they do it with the HPod. Have both brand names stamped, have Dell/HP do the support. Validate all drivers. Ship. Take cut of profits. Step 3 steal underpants Step 4 ???? Step 5 ???? Step 6 profit!!

Seriously. Paradigm change. Finally admitted it. The OS is the soul of the computer. He's right. As long as it's quality hardware it is. And if they validate Dell hardware and drivers there is no reason they can't make a decent box to run OS X. Sure it's ugly but umm, it's cheap. It sells. Period.

Apple vs Microsoft ROUND 2!

yup. discrete and tightly controlled licensing is very very possible. that's the power of your brand and brand value, once your initial investment in building up your brand is there, you milk it.

case in point: ferrari laptop as some of you have definitely seen:
http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/acer...top-009408.php

Apple will be ultra discreet though, they are the hardcore brand nazis of our time

Dell is too much of a risk to Apple's brand image though, not likely. HP, maybe...

"Apple vs Microsoft ROUND 2! "

overhead in redmond: APPLE SET US UP THE BOMB !!
post #40 of 51
Also, speaking of licensing, for the AsiaPacific market to get into MacOS, and even gamer/enthusiast market globally, i think Asustek notebooks are some of the nicest looking and feeling laptops out there:

http://usa.asus.com/products/notebook/nbindex.htm

and they have a CarbonFibre one, you, know, carbon fibre, like we were "supposed" to get for the powerBook g5

let's step out from our mac fantasy land for a second,
ignore the crappy text design on the webpage, and focus on the product design and styling features (widescreen on the ultraportable, white carbon fibre keys??) of the hardware of asus notebook. let's think about Mac os X running on something like these, spreading the joy of Mac...

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