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Iran war has started  

post #1 of 277
Thread Starter 
I touched on this in the 'Car Bombs in Iraq' thread but the issue has gone mainstream now and the purpose is now revealed as vastly different than we had surmised: ie it is prepping for invasion of Iran - so as this is a different take a new thread is (hopefully) legitimate.

Scott Ritter has written a fascinating article published on al-Jazeera which has highlighted this whole issue of the US using terrorist outfits and Islamist cells for their own agenda - in this case, war in Iran.

Ritter starts by contrasting the current bombings in Iran with the situation pre-war in Iraq. Then (as now) the public were fooled into believing that diplomacy was ongoing, that peaceful solutions were being sought and were encouraged to think this by Bush's own statements.

Statements we now know were lies. All the while bombing was underway in the 'no-fly zones' Iraq and that Special Forces were on the ground.

Similarly now, in relation to Iran, Bush is claiming 'all options are open'. In reality the war has already begun.

Drones and reconnaissance planes are illegally infringing Iranian airspace on a daily basis and in neighbouring Azerbaijan bases are being prepared and US military presence is building up.

Quote:
But this is only one use the US has planned for Azerbaijan. American military aircraft, operating from forward bases in Azerbaijan, will have a much shorter distance to fly when striking targets in and around Tehran.

In fact, US air power should be able to maintain a nearly 24-hour a day presence over Tehran airspace once military hostilities commence.

No longer will the United States need to consider employment of Cold War-dated plans which called for moving on Tehran from the Arab Gulf cities of Chah Bahar and Bandar Abbas. US Marine Corps units will be able to secure these towns in order to protect the vital Straits of Hormuz, but the need to advance inland has been eliminated.

A much shorter route to Tehran now exists - the coastal highway running along the Caspian Sea from Azerbaijan to Tehran.

US military planners have already begun war games calling for the deployment of multi-divisional forces into Azerbaijan.

But it is on the ground that the key elements are taking place. The MEK (Mujahadeen el-Khalq) has engaged on a wholesale campaign of terror, bombing and slaughter targeting Iranian government interests and ordinary citizens.

The MEK was founded by Saddam's notorious mukhabarat and were trained in techniques of terror, torture and assassination by the finest practitioners of these arts in Saddam's regime. The purpose was to fight a covert war against Iran as a counter-point to the overt hostility mainfested in the Iran/Iraq war.

Of course Saddam no longer controls the MEK, being otherwise engaged, but they are still taking orders from another anti-Iranian outfit: the CIA.

Ritter clearly spotlights the breathtaking hypocrisy involved:

Quote:
The most visible of these is the CIA-backed actions recently undertaken by the Mujahadeen el-Khalq, or MEK, an Iranian opposition group, once run by Saddam Hussein's dreaded intelligence services, but now working exclusively for the CIA's Directorate of Operations.

It is bitter irony that the CIA is using a group still labelled as a terrorist organisation, a group trained in the art of explosive assassination by the same intelligence units of the former regime of Saddam Hussein, who are slaughtering American soldiers in Iraq today, to carry out remote bombings in Iran of the sort that the Bush administration condemns on a daily basis inside Iraq.

So basically the same MO is being played out: while the US sheep slumber on, all the pieces are put in place, a few judicious bombings here and there and then just wait for 'the event' that will be needed to sell yet more murder and carnage on an innocent people. All in the name of democracy of course.

This is Ritter's take (and I more or less agree - certainly there is no way in hell Iran will not suffer the same fate as Iraq, none) and it is difficult to see how else they will do it if this is not it.

Any thoughts ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #2 of 277
Duh, Iran has Nukes. No time for games. We should simply say stop it all period both you and the G.D. Russians or we will stick some nukes right on your doorstep. Enough of these games. All Iran is doing is stalling the U.N. & U.S. while it builds its bomb. If Iran wants the bomb so bad i say lets give them one from 50,000 feet. Hell lets just do the same to N.Korea and get over. Its coming anyways. Your either with us or against us remember?
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post #3 of 277
I don't buy what you say Sego.
Iran war is not possible. Iraq is already a quagmire, and making a war against Iran, will be a political suicide, and let's say simply a suicide.

If Rafsandjani is elected (excuse me for this terrible spelling) he will propose this deal to US and the rest of the world.
We give up our nuclear nuke program in exchange to the acess of the free market via the OMC. We will not wait ten years, but will enter in 3 years, no more.
post #4 of 277
And exactly what army is going to invade Iran? I hear the one we have is busy elsewhere. But I'm sure there are tons of volunteers.
post #5 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I don't buy what you say Sego.
Iran war is not possible. Iraq is already a quagmire, and making a war against Iran, will be a political suicide, and let's say simply a suicide.

If Rafsandjani is elected (excuse me for this terrible spelling) he will propose this deal to US and the rest of the world.
We give up our nuclear nuke program in exchange to the acess of the free market via the OMC. We will not wait ten years, but will enter in 3 years, no more.

Disassemble the whole Nuke program and we let em in next year, That would be to Direct for Freaking politicians on ether side. Iran wants its bomb, and sitting on all that oil doesnt need a Nuke powerplant of any kind. Please. Maybe when the oil runs out next century but for now the anser is No. we want less Nukes not more. Iran needs to wake up or its going to learn the hard way.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
post #6 of 277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I don't buy what you say Sego.
Iran war is not possible. Iraq is already a quagmire, and making a war against Iran, will be a political suicide, and let's say simply a suicide.

If Rafsandjani is elected (excuse me for this terrible spelling) he will propose this deal to US and the rest of the world.
We give up our nuclear nuke program in exchange to the acess of the free market via the OMC. We will not wait ten years, but will enter in 3 years, no more.

I'm just quoting Ritter Doc but I must say that I find it difficult to believe they won't.

Look at it this way: they have started this business of the nuclear issue. It is 'on the table' and even if they wanted to they cannot back down and say 'ok, just carry on'.

It doesn't matter whether it is true or not - it is the same as the WMD with Saddam - he couldn't admit it because it wasn't true and his denials were not accepted. Iran is in exactly the same position. The US put them there - and Iran will certainly not back down. As I say, they can't, they're caught in a trap.

So regardless of Ritter, the questions are really:

1) Is Iran in the cross-hairs anyway ? Yes

2) Are the US backing off the rhetoric and hoping people forget ? No

3) Will Iran back down ? No

4) Even taking [b]BRussell's[b] point below, are the current US leadership insane enough to do it ? .................

You have the answer right there.

Yes, it's insane. Yes, it's almost not possible to do right now. But why would that stop them ?

If in the weeks after 911 someone had said that the US would forget about Osama for years and get involved in a quagmire in Iraq instead then that would be labeled impossible and insane too.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #7 of 277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
If Rafsandjani is elected (excuse me for this terrible spelling) he will propose this deal to US and the rest of the world.
We give up our nuclear nuke program in exchange to the acess of the free market via the OMC. We will not wait ten years, but will enter in 3 years, no more.

Sorry, meant to address this last bit of your post which is a very interesting angle.

Do you have info for this idea or is it something you concluded yourself ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #8 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Sorry, meant to address this last bit of your post which is a very interesting angle.

Do you have info for this idea or is it something you concluded yourself ?

Unfortunately no, I heard on the radio, and I find this very interesting.
Rafsandjani (wrong spelling), is probabily the next president of Iran. He is a very, very rich man : the 50 fortune of the world. He is the king of the pistache. Whenever you eat a pistache, you have a chance to eat one pistache coming from his properties.

That's mean he is a busisnessman, who know how to deal. As a progessist muslim ( if you consider the iran spectrum) he is interested in the economic wealth of his countrie. The free market exchange is high on his list, and he has a perfect weapon to achieve his goals : exchange nuisance (the Iran nuclear program) against the OMC membership.
post #9 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
[B]I'm just quoting Ritter Doc but I must say that I find it difficult to believe they won't.

Look at it this way: they have started this business of the nuclear issue. It is 'on the table' and even if they wanted to they cannot back down and say 'ok, just carry on'.

It doesn't matter whether it is true or not - it is the same as the WMD with Saddam - he couldn't admit it because it wasn't true and his denials were not accepted. Iran is in exactly the same position. The US put them there - and Iran will certainly not back down. As I say, they can't, they're caught in a trap.

So regardless of Ritter, the questions are really:

1) Is Iran in the cross-hairs anyway ? Yes

2) Are the US backing off the rhetoric and hoping people forget ? No

3) Will Iran back down ? No

4) Even taking [b]BRussell's point below, are the current US leadership insane enough to do it ? .................

You have the answer right there.

Yes, it's insane. Yes, it's almost not possible to do right now. But why would that stop them ?

If in the weeks after 911 someone had said that the US would forget about Osama for years and get involved in a quagmire in Iraq instead then that would be labeled impossible and insane too.

I have nothing agains the point 1 to 3, but point 4 is huge. US can't afford politically (inside politic here) this new war. They can't open a second battlefront, and this war will be very unpopular in US. Bush will lose his support. The Bush admin is able to do anything weird, but will never do a political suicide.
post #10 of 277
We only have 10% of the US armed forces in Iraq (140K out of 1.4 million) - how can it be that we are over-streched?

I think that we will either invade in the next 2-3 months, or else wait until after the 2006 elections.
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post #11 of 277
Perhaps we dont need a war ,Just bomb the piss out of that reactor plant and a few other places with a word of warning that next time that bomb is coming through your window if you dont clean up your act. Enough of being the nice guy. Same goes for N.Korea we should tell China shut the Crazy Korean Down or we sill stop all trade with your Communist arse.! That would get their attention.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
post #12 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
We only have 10% of the US armed forces in Iraq (140K out of 1.4 million) - how can it be that we are over-streched?

I think that we will either invade in the next 2-3 months, or else wait until after the 2006 elections.

Capacity of projection of an army is not the same thing, as the total capacity of an army. In order to invade Iran ( a much more difficult contender than Iraq) US will have to sent at least 500 000 people. US will not recieve any help from most of their allies, Britain included (Blair want to be reelected).
Can the US afford this war, both in term of money, and human lifes (the US ones here) ?
post #13 of 277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Capacity of projection of an army is not the same thing, as the total capacity of an army. In order to invade Iran ( a much more difficult contender than Iraq) US will have to sent at least 500 000 people. US will not recieve any help from most of their allies, Britain included (Blair want to be reelected).
Can the US afford this war, both in term of money, and human lifes (the US ones here) ?

Blair will go along Powerdoc - and anyway, he only just got re-elected. That gives him five years till he is held to account at any ballot box.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #14 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Blair will go along Powerdoc - and anyway, he only just got re-elected. That gives him five years till he is held to account at any ballot box.

If it is like Canada, then a vote of "no confidence" will call an election at any time. Some Canadian prime ministers have only lasted a few months.
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post #15 of 277
This may be true, unless you consider the confidence of Labour's parliamentary party, which is now in doubt. The five-year term is for the Parliament, not the Prime Minister, and if a Labour rebellion in the Commons gets legs, Blair himself will not last the five year term. After losing such a shocking majority, many have questions about Anthony Blair's future at Number Ten. See Thatcher to Major in the 1990s.
post #16 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
We only have 10% of the US armed forces in Iraq (140K out of 1.4 million) - how can it be that we are over-streched?

Because most of those troops in Iraq are ground forces, and our ground forces total well under a million, including all guard/reserves. Moreover, you can't leave troops in combat for three years straight, and you can't send them straight there from the recruiting office. At any given moment, there's about 140,000 troops training to go to Iraq, 140,000 in Iraq, and 140,000 refitting/recovering from being in Iraq. And that's just Iraq. There's probably about another 100,000 overseas ground deployments at any given time, including 20-30,000 in the Afghan combat zone. That this grand total of 200-250,000 x 3 is pushing up against the total number of active, reserve and guard troops is why the Army is overstetched. It's only made worse by the fact that overseas combat deployments require combat units (duh), so the bulk of the burden is shouldered by a relatively small - and shrinking, due to attrition, casualties, and poor enlistment - segment of the Army.

Bottomline is, if the Nazis invaded New York tomorrow, we could mobilize a half-million troops to meet them for the duration, no problem. For another overseas "war of choice" that requires an undefined period of occupation measured in years, we're already pretty much incapable of doing it with the present Army.
post #17 of 277
Invading, attacking, or further threatening Iran is abaaaaaaaad bad idea.

An entire generation of people in their mid twenties (who are mostly very pro-western) are poised to take power in the very near future.

Its just a question of time.

You attack now, you alienate them, and then its all gone to shit.

Just FYI, Iran is mostly mountains... and is almost 4 times bigger than Iraq. Oh, and the people are FIERCELY nationalistic... not for the heads of state (like Iraq) but for the country.

With the amount of time they've had to prepare, and the amount of real weapons (Iraq part 2 was a fucking joke) they have amassed, the USA could never do it alone. Not even with NATO on their side. Not even Russia.

And for what?

Trust me, I've been to Iran plenty of times... take my advice... forget about it...
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
post #18 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by ZO
Invading, attacking, or further threatening Iran is abaaaaaaaad bad idea.

An entire generation of people in their mid twenties (who are mostly very pro-western) are poised to take power in the very near future.

Its just a question of time.

You attack now, you alienate them, and then its all gone to shit.

Just FYI, Iran is mostly mountains... and is almost 4 times bigger than Iraq. Oh, and the people are FIERCELY nationalistic... not for the heads of state (like Iraq) but for the country.

With the amount of time they've had to prepare, and the amount of real weapons (Iraq part 2 was a fucking joke) they have amassed, the USA could never do it alone. Not even with NATO on their side. Not even Russia.

And for what?

Trust me, I've been to Iran plenty of times... take my advice... forget about it...

For what ? how about the spread of Nukes? Its a good enough reason for me. We couldnt bomb their arse to kingdom come? Please we could take control of all their skies in a week if we wanted. If our intent was just to kill folks we could do it easy. Thats not our goal. World Peace is our goal and we wont let some islamic extremist state ruin it for everyone.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
post #19 of 277
America, FUCK yeah!

We're going to bomb the shit out of them until we get PEACE!
meh
meh
post #20 of 277
Anyone see the Daily Show on Thursday? Ken Timmerman was on, talking about Iran.

He seemed to know a lot about the country, and still thinks that they are a great danger to us. In fact, he thinks that they helped Bin Laden plan 9/11, and that Bin Laden is in Iran now.

His book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846
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post #21 of 277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Anyone see the Daily Show on Thursday? Ken Timmerman was on, talking about Iran.

He seemed to know a lot about the country, and still thinks that they are a great danger to us. In fact, he thinks that they helped Bin Laden plan 9/11, and that Bin Laden is in Iran now.

His book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

That's more evidence there going in then.

Clearly this Timmerman knows nothing at all about Iran or/and is lying - but that's even more proof of the prepping for war.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #22 of 277
Seg I think you have the wrong idea with this thread. I doubt the US would do something so stupid as to go to war in Iran. Again it would be just stupid.

I may not admire Bush for many reasons but I would be willing to bet he is not that stupid.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #23 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
That's more evidence there going in then.

Clearly this Timmerman knows nothing at all about Iran or/and is lying - but that's even more proof of the prepping for war.

You can say that without 1) reading the book, or 2) even watching the inteview on the Daily Show...

Bias, baby, Bias!

He does mention some of the things that you have talked about (Iranian youth very pro-US, etc). And I don't think that he is advocating all-out war.

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/t...layVideo=15750
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post #24 of 277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
You can say that without 1) reading the book, or 2) even watching the inteview on the Daily Show...

Bias, baby, Bias!

He does mention some of the things that you have talked about (Iranian youth very pro-US, etc). And I don't think that he is advocating all-out war.

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/t...layVideo=15750

How do you know I haven't read the book ? In fact I quoted it in a recent thread - with the not so subtle title of "Osama is in Iran'.

Besides, one does not need to have read the book, one needs only a rudimentary knowledge of Islam in a historical sense.

The Shi'i and the Sunnis have been at war to various degrees for nearly 1300 years. There are what you might call some 'issues'.

Osama is not only a Sunni he is a Wahabi - even the Sunnis hate the Wahabis. But more than that, he is a Wahabi who makes it his business to kill Shi'ia. If the Iranians find him in Iran the last thing they will do is turn him in. They will kill him themselves.

That is why one might hazard a guess he wouldn't go there.

I know none of this matters for your average winger, if someone started selling it to the sheep that Osama was on Mars they'd believe it. Facts just don't exist for them and they live in a complete fantasy world now - that's what happens when you play around with the meaning of truth and lie a lot.

If this Timmerman was just a wee bit less stupid he would have said Syria instead of Iran (of course no-oone ever mentions Saudi which is the only place the Wahabis have control and Osama is a Saudi but hey....) but it's not like he's a thinker or making a contribution....he's just parroting what he's told and it's merely drip, drip, drip for the drips......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #25 of 277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Seg I think you have the wrong idea with this thread. I doubt the US would do something so stupid as to go to war in Iran. Again it would be just stupid.

I may not admire Bush for many reasons but I would be willing to bet he is not that stupid.

Fellows

I agree Fellows, it would be very stupid. But the neocons are very stupid. It takes a special kind of stupidity to squander the world support after 911 and to make a military failure of probably one of the easiest regimes to overthrow....

Besides, Bush is not calling the tune is he? He is merely dancing to someone else's beat. If you look at the signs in the run up to Iraq - signs we didn't then know for sure were lies and prepping but do now - it's all being played out again.

How long till we actually see it coming ad do something ?

Are we always going to be arguing after the fact ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #26 of 277
Thread Starter 
And one more thing, for those who think that the Bush cabal would not be 'stupid' and that there are not enough troops etc, check out this article from the authority on all military matters, the Intelligence Bible: Jane's Intelligence Digest via the Jerusalem post (hardly a 'left-wng rag').

The title is suggestive enough: "Rumsfeld considers striking Hizbullah to provoke Syria".

I think you will all agree , this qualifies as stupid and moreover, faces the same military problems an attack on Iran would re the troop numbers - of course, Syria is no opposition militarily (unlike Iran) which is why the bullies are continuing their policy there instead of in a real testing ground.

Bombing civilians from 20,000 feet when you have an inept and low-morale army for opposition is always the path of choice for the chickenhawk. But it does signal intent and again, is evidence of 'the way the wind is blowing'.

We are not there yet - though this is as near as a declaration of war as we get these days - the media will let us know when it kicks off as they ratchet up the propaganda. I'd say 4 - 6 weeks and still say Iran rather than Syria.

Meanwhile savour these gems:

Quote:
In an article to be published on Friday, the journal said multi-faceted US attacks, which would be conducted within the framework of the global war on terrorism, are likely to focus on Hizbullah bases in the Bekaa Valley of eastern Lebanon.

It noted that the deployment of US special forces in the Bekaa Valley, where most of Syria's occupation forces in Lebanon are based, would be highly inflammatory and would "almost certainly involve a confrontation with Syrian troops."

Such a conflict might well prove to be the objective of the US, said the journal, which described Washington's strategic benefits from a confrontation with Syria. These include:

* Pressuring Damascus into ending its support for anti-Israel Palestinian groups;

* Persuading Syria to abandon its weapons of mass destruction and to withdraw its troops from Lebanon;

* Stimulating a situation where Syrian leader Bashir Assad can be ousted;

* Crushing Hizbullah and ending its presumed connections with al-Qaida.

"The political consequences of a US attack against Lebanon. . . could result in the destabilization of a country that is still rebuilding its infrastructure a decade after a ruinous 15-year civil war," noted the journal.

"It would also fuel Muslim and Arab hostility toward the US at a time when US-led occupation forces are fighting the ongoing insurgency in Iraq.

"In these circumstances, taking on Hizbullah in the Bekaa Valley is likely to prove a highly risky undertaking.

"However," it continued, "given the Bush administration's doctrine of pre-emptive strikes, it remains entirely possible that Washington will soon launch military strikes against Lebanon, regardless of the consequences for wider regional stability".

Note the implanted reference to Syria's "WMD".

When are the left going to wise up and realise the agenda here ? The wingers have known about it all the time and have been having wet-dreams at the prospect of more deaths on a nioghtly basis - when are the intelligent section of society going to wake up and smell the BS ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #27 of 277
Quote:
If the Iranians find him in Iran the last thing they will do is turn him in. They will kill him themselves.

The guy that wrote the book said he watched a video where Osama was planning future terrorist strikes with the Iranian leadership. The planning session was in Iran, and could be dated very recently because of a new style of cell phone that was in the video.

So you are saying that he ls flat out lying to inflame war.
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post #28 of 277
Damn. I was planning to go to Iran within a year. I guess I have to hurry up or forget all about it...
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
post #29 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
The guy that wrote the book said he watched a video where Osama was planning future terrorist strikes with the Iranian leadership. The planning session was in Iran, and could be dated very recently because of a new style of cell phone that was in the video.

So you are saying that he ls flat out lying to inflame war.

Well I heard a man say he saw a picture of a man drawing a cartoon of Osama standing in the statue of liberty just yesterday. If you bomb now you might get him...

Osama in Iran, weapons in Syria, highjackers from Saudi Arabia. Why not just carpet bomb the lot?
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
post #30 of 277
The US would be remiss not to be spying on Iran and setting up special forces inside of the country. We will not attack them. That would not be practical. Not going to happen.
Moe has left the building
Moe has left the building
post #31 of 277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
The guy that wrote the book said he watched a video where Osama was planning future terrorist strikes with the Iranian leadership. The planning session was in Iran, and could be dated very recently because of a new style of cell phone that was in the video.

So you are saying that he ls flat out lying to inflame war.

Yes. I am saying that. Absolutely.

And I'm not the only one who thinks that. The CIA and Military Intelligence agree - so you'll have to decide who you believe. Here are some quotes that might help (or perhaps not):

Quote:
Timmerman's startling revelations come from a recent defector who held a top position in Iranian intelligence. The defector provided documents and other material evidence - including a detailed description of a meeting last November between bin Laden and top Iranian government officials at a safe house in northern Iran.

The CIA calls the defector a "fabricator of monumental proportions".

You have some facts wrong btw - it is the defector whose claims about the Osama video are under discussion. Timmerman is reporting second hand.

But onwards...

No more comment is needed here.

I will say this though:

Bush is going into Iran.

You can talk all you like about 'Osama' or 'Nuclear threat' but the fact is that these are just more lies to justify more murder.

That is to say: they are not true.

They exist only to placate people like you who seem to need some justification of this sort before murdering innocent civilians.

You would be more honest if you admitted what you wanted and said you needed no reason. This is why the US is not comparable to the Nazis - they are nowhere near as honest and have nowhere near the integrity.

Just like WMD, just like the '45 minutes' and babies in incubators - the plastic shredders - all lies.

Lies told to facilitate murder. And yet again you are buying into it.

You're a fool - it's not even meant to be believable.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #32 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
For what ? how about the spread of Nukes? Its a good enough reason for me. We couldnt bomb their arse to kingdom come? Please we could take control of all their skies in a week if we wanted. If our intent was just to kill folks we could do it easy. Thats not our goal. World Peace is our goal and we wont let some islamic extremist state ruin it for everyone.

Wow... yet another example of brainwashed american...

I was once like you... then I left for school abroad, and managed to shake the shackles of "America, fuck yeah" attitude after a few years and am always amazed at how America is really nothing more than media hype and... brainwash.

Get around a bit...

Although I do agree with you on one point, about the Nukes. If they do have it, they should be dealt with... in a proper manner. And not "a la fucking Bush" way. Because of him the US has little to no credibility in the rest of the world. Nice going Bush & Co.
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
I'm having deja-vu and amnesia at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.
post #33 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Yes. I am saying that. Absolutely.

And I'm not the only one who thinks that. The CIA and Military Intelligence agree - so you'll have to decide who you believe. Here are some quotes that might help (or perhaps not):



You have some facts wrong btw - it is the defector whose claims about the Osama video are under discussion. Timmerman is reporting second hand.

But onwards...

No more comment is needed here.

I will say this though:

Bush is going into Iran.

You can talk all you like about 'Osama' or 'Nuclear threat' but the fact is that these are just more lies to justify more murder.

That is to say: they are not true.

They exist only to placate people like you who seem to need some justification of this sort before murdering innocent civilians.

You would be more honest if you admitted what you wanted and said you needed no reason. This is why the US is not comparable to the Nazis - they are nowhere near as honest and have nowhere near the integrity.

Just like WMD, just like the '45 minutes' and babies in incubators - the plastic shredders - all lies.

Lies told to facilitate murder. And yet again you are buying into it.

You're a fool - it's not even meant to be believable.

1. He had multiple sources, who corroborated each other
2. The CIA does not seem that competant lately
3. The Nuclear thing has been publically verified by the Iranian government directly
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #34 of 277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
1. He had multiple sources, who corroborated each other
2. The CIA does not seem that competant lately
3. The Nuclear thing has been publically verified by the Iranian government directly

Like I say - these lies are specifically designed for people like you, precisely aimed at people like you and relentlessly pitched at people like you.

And hey, look....it's working.

You are the ones who will give the green light for more murders of innocent civilians.

And you are the ones who will be arguing with saner heads here after the fact about whether or not we were lied to 'whether WMD exist' and whether country X should be the next in line for some carpet-bombing.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #35 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Like I say - these lies are specifically designed for people like you, precisely aimed at people like you and relentlessly pitched at people like you.

And hey, look....it's working.

You are the ones who will give the green light for more murders of innocent civilians.

And you are the ones who will be arguing with saner heads here after the fact about whether or not we were lied to 'whether WMD exist' and whether country X should be the next in line for some carpet-bombing.

There will "need" to be another 9/11 to get the yoo-ess-ay guys to start volunteering again.

But get this:

Since the Iraq war is a quagmire and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, recruitment has plummeted.

Stop Loss has trapped the majority of the troops into serving 'til death or injury. They signed up for x number of years and the military says tough shit, you fight or die or go to jail. Naturally only the dumbest or the most desperate will volunteer seeing that. it's no longer a volunteer army, it's an indentured servant army (or mercenary at best).

So...we start seeing "inspiring" stories about "noble" soldiers like:
1. Females fighting in combat roles
2. Amputees getting fitted with state of the art prosthetics and returning to combat

We also start seeing stories about use of robots outfitted with automatic shotguns/RPG/machine guns. (Not the bomb-defusing ones, these are killing machines - on the ground now in a so-called sovereign country as it's guinea pig).

Darpa is working on autonomous roving minefields, that communicate with eachother to maintain any defensive grid and reforming itself to seal up any gaps. Once the autonomous software is tweaked, no reason the remote control 4-wheeled robots can just be semi-autonomous.

The government *wants* to be over-stretched so that we have the reasons to spend money into robotics.

They are politically too cowardly to force an actual draft on the public.

Instead, we'll see them do things like allow (and recruit) women for combat, increase the age you can enlist (really, why not 45?), make it a requirement for amputees and other injured troops to "suck it up" and get back to their units when healed, leg or no leg. And those that are too wounded but have enough mobility to control a remote robot will be encouraged to do so.

Some of that is semi-far fetched and tongue in cheek but not really. It's all going on.
"The Roots of Violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics...
"The Roots of Violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics...
post #36 of 277
Thread Starter 
From the Boston Globe via Gorilla in the Room:

Quote:
In a report to the council, Gelb was scathing about America efforts to train an Iraqi army. ''If you ask any Iraqi leader, they will tell you these people can't fight. They just aren't trained. And yet we're cranking them out like rabbits." As for plans to train a 10 division Iraqi army by next year, Gelb was scathing.

''It became very apparent to me that these 10 divisions were to fight some future war against Iran. It had nothing to do, nothing to do," with taking Iraq over from the Americans and fighting the insurgents.

If the Iraqi army is going to be the one going into Iran then that takes care of the troop problem nicely....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #37 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Unfortunately no, I heard on the radio, and I find this very interesting.
Rafsandjani (wrong spelling), is probabily the next president of Iran. He is a very, very rich man : the 50 fortune of the world. He is the king of the pistache. Whenever you eat a pistache, you have a chance to eat one pistache coming from his properties.

That's mean he is a busisnessman, who know how to deal. As a progessist muslim ( if you consider the iran spectrum) he is interested in the economic wealth of his countrie. The free market exchange is high on his list, and he has a perfect weapon to achieve his goals : exchange nuisance (the Iran nuclear program) against the OMC membership.

Welp, he lost.
Look for more confrontations now.
Either we destroy Irans Nukes or flatten them entirely.
Either way, theres no way we can allow Iran to get Nukes.
Come on, Israel, do it already, so we wont have to.
post #38 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Welp, he lost.
Look for more confrontations now.
Either we destroy Irans Nukes or flatten them entirely.
Either way, theres no way we can allow Iran to get Nukes.
Come on, Israel, do it already, so we wont have to.

Yes it's very bad news : dark times in Iran. We are going to see a taliban like governement. Nothing good will occur from this election.
post #39 of 277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
or flatten them entirely.

Or we flatten people like you....that's always another option and the way to go imo.

It's people like you that make these things happen - you go on and on about things that aren't true till you make them true.

Congratulations - the belligerent US foreign policy has driven yet another country into the extreme.

But then again, that's the point isn't it?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #40 of 277
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Yes it's very bad news : dark times in Iran. We are going to see a taliban like governement. Nothing good will occur from this election.

Reminds me of America, we have the extreme right Bible thumpers destroying every ounce of freedom we have left.Just Look at how they are spinning science here in the U.S.A. Look where George has taken us in 5 years. He has undone 50 years of progress. Iran will be just the same, another Zealot state of fanatics pushing their Book. America/Iran both ran by extremist who can only think in those narrow religious terms. Now lets see what did the Bible/Koran say on the issue of popcorn after dark? These are the folks that will destroy this world. For their selfish system of belief. We cant do much about Iran but we can clean house here in the U.S.A. Vote out all incumbants. its the only way.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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