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Rumored Apple Midi/Audio app

post #1 of 40
12/14/01 at 3:29pm
Thread Starter 
Very vague info but a new app built or based upon Opcodes Studio Vision Pro will be announced MWSF. no Specs as of yet and I assume none will come as the source of the info is worried about getting his source fired from Apple.

Will keep you upto date on any further news.
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post #2 of 40
12/14/01 at 7:45pm
I think that would be really cool.
5 months later MS will come out with something similar and act like they are innovative
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post #3 of 40
12/14/01 at 9:05pm
This doesn't make much sense to me.. this looks like a really high end audio app - besides, wouldn't Apple have bought them so they could change it, add a different UI, and release it?
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post #4 of 40
12/14/01 at 9:56pm
Thread Starter 
I would imagine that they would create 2 apps one free consumer app and one expensive pro app. Like imovie and final cut pro as well as IDVD and DVD Studio. It could be useful for the novice doing more creative sound work for your movies or web pages. I've used Studio Vision Pro for 9 years and have cringing at the idea of switching apps. I just might be able to stay on board. fingers crossed!
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post #5 of 40
12/14/01 at 11:18pm
For whatever reason, I remain skeptical. Doesn't seem like Apple's market for their own software, and I highly doubt a "consumer" version of a MIDI/audio app is coming due to very little interest from most consumers who just want to rip their Brittany CD's, not learn piano and mixing on the computer.

But my skepticism has failed me before.
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post #6 of 40
12/14/01 at 11:53pm
Think about the Intel commercials indicating that "now anybody can be a digital DJ." At my last job, nearly 20% of the people there enjoyed mixing their own music...

Now think about this, iDVD and DVD Studio Pro has a pretty limited audience (currently). Yet Apple still made those products. I'm sure a suite of Audio solutions would be far better received, especially the Pro line. (Real Pros already use Macs for their audio work.)

Anyhow, while I think its unlikely, if Apple does come out with these iMusic apps I too will dabble in the musical arts... (Something I haven't done in 8 years or so...)
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post #7 of 40
12/15/01 at 12:00am
I have a hard time imagining a "mass market" pro audio app, but I'm very encouraged to imagine OSX compatibility for important pro audio apps for true audio geeks.

MOTU, Emagic and Opcode need to get moving!
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post #8 of 40
12/15/01 at 6:30am
Thread Starter 
What's really interesting is that Opcode was shutdown by Gibson two years ago and all the Studio Vision Users have been migrating over to other sequencers. Gibson gave us no hope that the code would be for sale and that we would ever see an uprgade. Gibson is natorious for buying companies and killing them, suing the technology from its creators and burying it. Don't now why they just do it. Gibson is trying to eek out a new digital audio format and I think they saw Opcode's OMS standard as a rival??
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post #9 of 40
12/15/01 at 11:45am
[quote]Originally posted by perceptual:
<strong>What's really interesting is that Opcode was shutdown by Gibson two years ago and all the Studio Vision Users have been migrating over to other sequencers. Gibson gave us no hope that the code would be for sale and that we would ever see an uprgade. Gibson is natorious for buying companies and killing them, suing the technology from its creators and burying it. Don't now why they just do it. Gibson is trying to eek out a new digital audio format and I think they saw Opcode's OMS standard as a rival??</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah look what Gibson did to Steinberger guitars. They still make them (well sorta) They aren't near the quality of the originals.
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post #10 of 40
12/15/01 at 12:20pm
[quote]Originally posted by perceptual:
<strong>Very vague info but a new app built or based upon Opcodes Studio Vision Pro will be announced MWSF. no Specs as of yet and I assume none will come as the source of the info is worried about getting his source fired from Apple.

Will keep you upto date on any further news.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Man, I really hope you're right. I'm a former Studio Vision user who switched to both Logic and Digital Performer. Neither though are as intuitive as Vision, but I have to use 'm as Vision doesn't support VST2

Can't wait till January

[ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: macanoid ]</p>
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post #11 of 40
12/15/01 at 12:37pm
Well did you have a hard time imagining a mass market DVD burning app? Who the hell has a DVD burner? I'd say about as many that do music on their macs?

Jeesh, just because you're not included in the target audience doesn't mean it won't fly. A friend of mine who uses PCs is about to buy his first mac because he has heard Macs are made for music. This kind of app would be perfect for him-he does MIDI.
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post #12 of 40
12/16/01 at 9:02am
Thread Starter 
This just in. Sorry for the bad formating.

( Here is how the PR Draft has "Worded" it &lt; Released during MW Expo&gt
************************************************** ***
In a strategic cooperative initiative, Gibson has allowed a team of
almost a hundred programmers, and will ultimately transfer all
intellectual property to said group, of Opcode software including,
OMS, Vision, Galaxy, following some elaborate legal contractual
papers being reviewed and signed.

Meanwhile, the Source Code is already under development. An amazing
Carbon, 100% PPC, OS 8/9 & X ready Vision 5.0 will be ready within
weeks. The OS X version ties into Core Audio & MIDI Services, while
Classic OS 8/9 will use an updated OMS. ASIO-2, VST-2, mLan, Dolby
5.1/6.1/7.1/10.2 surround sound enhancements have already been
completed. A New import format supports ALL previous Vision files
from 1.0 - 4.5.1 &lt;which is way past due!&gt; and also opens/ edits/
saves Pro Tools, AVID, MOTU 2.x- 3.1, and all supported QT file
formats.
This is the largest Mac development team outside of Apple. Instead
of simply making a nicer UI for Video film scoring work, an entire
Video Editing technology was implemented based on a future, soon to
be released QT, and internal MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4 import/export G4
optimized I/O kit.
Finally, a new 3-D graphics engine, allows creation of complete
3-D creation for CD Covers, and LOGO/Band/Label creation inside the
new Vision environment. The cool thing, here, is the video was then
attached to the 3-D system to allow "Toy Story" type Video creation
& Music scoring via MIDI & Audio. Since these were coded with
Altivec instructions, it is faster than any 3-D/Video software
available &lt;including outboard DSP systems&gt; by over 900%, on the Mac
OS 8/9/X on Dual G4/450 & up.
The Graphic Notation has been rewritten from scratch, based on a
full featured professional notation program. Which interfaces with a
new 64 bit Acadia & 32 bit Audio-to-Midi feature which can place a
notation score into Audio ( including MP3 ).

These features which include a streamlined GUI, including every
single dialogue box, but is open to debate for users. Therefore,
implementation will be in "Skins" allowing Classic, or Modern, to be
selected by the user. ( Except under Mac OS X ).


Obviously, these features are an extreme break from the SV Pro
product line. Careful attention was paid to place Notation, Video,
3-D, Import-Export, and improved features in the same manner as
previous versions &lt; in Classic Skin &gt; leaving users with zero
learning curve. While the New GUI follows Aqua user giudelines for
simplicity, and ease of use for new users.
Users with no need for many new functions will not have "Overhead"
of these new features. Each portion is Module based; Notation,
Video, Audio, 3-D, etc. Only load when chosen by the user. Leaving
out the overhead of RAM & System resources. Each "Module" has it's
own memory, and lays dormant until invoked. Making typical
bloatware, a non-issue. In fact, using the Audio & MIDI only, on
par with previous releases, the Native PPC code actually uses 1/3
less RAM than Vision 4.x.

Since so much has been altered, and object oriented Cocoa allow
such things as speech, word processing, spell check, PDF & XML,
Speech Recognition, Text to Speech, graphic editing in already
available libraries, Apple Script, and recent contact with
previously successful NeXT developers with Graphics support, we feel
a package like this is no longer "Vision", and may release
Multimedia Master product, as well as basic improved SV Pro, SVP +
Video, SVP 3-D Video. Multimedia OS has been a common suggestion...

All Code will be Open source, except where in example Dolby
Digital or other patent holders will not allow it. Thus avoiding
this happening again.Â*Â*Â*Using standard tools BSD UNIX, as used in
open source Mac OS X "Darwin" will run fairly well immediately.
Darwin for Intel, Linux, UI support, will fall into open source
efforts, respectively. Darwin for Intel support will be stricly Open
Source.....at this time.
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post #13 of 40
12/16/01 at 3:49pm
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>Well did you have a hard time imagining a mass market DVD burning app? Who the hell has a DVD burner? I'd say about as many that do music on their macs?

Jeesh, just because you're not included in the target audience doesn't mean it won't fly. A friend of mine who uses PCs is about to buy his first mac because he has heard Macs are made for music. This kind of app would be perfect for him-he does MIDI.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's not hard at all to imagine a mass-market DVD burning app -- the only thing preventing it from being "mass market" is the price of DVDR drives, which is dropping quickly.

MIDI apps and PC/Mac-based digital audio have been around for years. The necessary hardware interfaces for these are already cheap.

I could see my neighbor or my uncle wanting to burn his own DVDs, but I can't imagine them wanting to do MIDI sequencing or digital audio multi-tracking. I'm not saying there's no market for MIDI & digital audio apps -- I use both of them myself -- I'm just saying I don't see either one ever being "mass market."
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post #14 of 40
12/16/01 at 4:05pm
My point is is that I think the # of people wanting to burn their own DVDs should be comparable to the # of music users wanting a music app.
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post #15 of 40
12/19/01 at 3:06am
Bring it on!

I don't really think it's gonna happen though.

Logic 5 will be out in January (hopefully), and I will be first in line.

Performance does worry me though. Hopefully my G4 400 will be able to cope!
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post #16 of 40
12/19/01 at 5:40am
Eventhough I think Vision 5 is not gonna happen, you can't blame me for hoping

You have to admit though that the PR Draft is very well written, and sounds like it could be true.
We'll see, if this ain't gonna happen, there's always Logic 5.
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post #17 of 40
12/19/01 at 6:25am
If the PR is true, then I'm the happiest man on earth. I still use Vision (although I've been learning Cubase), for most of my "quick and dirty" work.

My composition teacher should be pleased as well, as he used to work at Opcode before they were bought by Gibson.

P.S.

Where'd you get that Press Release, I can't find it!

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Composer ]</p>
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post #18 of 40
12/22/01 at 3:10am
message for perceptual.

i was wondering if you'd heard any more news on this rumoured new audio app from opcode.
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post #19 of 40
12/23/01 at 10:09pm
An iApp for audio recording and editing would be cool, but I'd rather see OS X drivers for my Soundblaster Live card. Sadly, I think Creative has ditched Mac support.
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post #20 of 40
12/24/01 at 11:58am
I want some good audio software for OS X. That will make me convert to X fully.
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post #21 of 40
12/26/01 at 3:19pm
i have a hard time believing apple would release an app like this when every new machine that they've released in the last 2 years has lacked an analog audio-in jack. That would be the most important piece of hardware to the amateur musician,
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post #22 of 40
12/26/01 at 4:41pm
Thread Starter 
all is quiet on my end... I'm just waiting for Jan 7th to see if its true!!
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post #23 of 40
12/26/01 at 5:39pm
I think this may happen...
Not as a consumer app, but more towards the pro end. Kinda a go-along with Final Cut Pro 3.

In the manual for FCP 2 (unfortunatly I have not gotten FCP 3 yet) it says that it is specifically for making bad audio better not making it sound "neat".

It is also true that FCP 2 cannot import Mp3's straight, they have to be converted to a less compressed format like AIFF's.

Correct me if I'm way off base here as to what this program could be, but a nice high end audio editing program would go real well with FCP. It could have more filters for providing different sound effects as well as high quality encoding conversion. Not to mention a better equalizer.(and a mixer and cutting station...)
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post #24 of 40
12/27/01 at 12:34am
[quote]Originally posted by waffffffle:
<strong>i have a hard time believing apple would release an app like this when every new machine that they've released in the last 2 years has lacked an analog audio-in jack. That would be the most important piece of hardware to the amateur musician,</strong><hr></blockquote>

Think Firewire! MOTU for example has released an excellent firewire based audio interface. Various other companies are currently building firewire devices that have video, audio and/or MIDI/mLan, and that's what you really need when you do this kind of stuff.

Because Vision works both in a linear and in a non-linear fashion, it's in my opinion the best program around for doing film music. You can write short sequences and have them triggered by smtp. Something like this I find easier to do in Vision than in any other program, although the new Digital Performer comes close.

Damnit Perceptual, your news about Vision has made waiting for the January MacWorld Expo harder than ever

[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: macanoid ]</p>
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post #25 of 40
12/28/01 at 4:04pm
Well, Apple bundles Peak DV with FCP3.
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post #26 of 40
1/8/02 at 10:14am
Hi perceptual,

Now that the Mac Expo is well under way, I was wondering if you (or your friend) has any more info on this rumoured audio app??

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: macanoid ]</p>
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post #27 of 40
1/8/02 at 11:46am
I got Cubase VST5.1 on Christmas eve. I have been a Cubase user sinse v3. Let me tell you unconditionally that there is Very little ANYONE could do that would give it an edge over 5.1.

About 5 years ago, I pumped about £20,000 into a hardware based personal studio. On Xmas Eve, I officially replaced all of this with an £80 upgrade. In fact 5.1 is so good, that It would probably have cost me about an extra £10,000 to upgrade the HW studio to equal the performance I get from VST.

And the sound quality is far superior (no noise, 50HZ hum etc). There are no cables (I had about 300metres of the stuff. Flexibility is awesome. You'dd have to drop about £20k on HW just to get an equivalent automated Digital Mixer with the subrouting options. Software synthesis is Now beyond belief. I dropped £1k on a Korg Prophecy, £800 on a Yamaha AN1x. £2500 on an Ensoniq ASR-10 sampler. Most of this stuff comes free in the box. A software Sampler far beyond the ASR-10 costs £300.

I never used Logic, but I hear its just as good. The VST/Logic war has been for over 10 years, these apps are some of the best software you can get on any platform, at any price, in any category. And the competition between them is similar to AMD/Intel so these apps are highly evolved and always evolving. I'd go out on a limb to say that VST5.1 is probably the best piece of programming I've ever seen. (but V4 sucked beyond belief). There simply is no room for Apple to release an iSequencer or SequencerPRO. The speed of development alone would consume them. Sorry.
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post #28 of 40
1/8/02 at 1:17pm
One other thing.... Opcode is still selling Studio Vision Pro on their web site. $99 for the full version (download only), not bad. It's at <a href="http://www.opcode.com" target="_blank">www.opcode.com</a> in case you're curious.
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post #29 of 40
1/9/02 at 11:50am
Still waiting for performer/reaktor/reason/ X. Although motu just released beta midi drivers for X, I have no software to test them with :-)

Although Ableton has a beta of Live out for X. A wonderful performance based tool. Yummy.
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post #30 of 40
1/9/02 at 3:01pm
That Live program looks interesting. What do you use for an audio interface in OSX, though? The headphone jack?!

Also I was talking to a friend last night who was a hardcore Studio Vision Pro user right up until "the end," and I told him about these rumors. He says he's pretty sure somebody confused the fact that one of the main guys (forgot his name) from Opcode, who worked on SVP, went to work at Apple on an alternative to OMS for OSX (the 3-letter acronyms are flying fast & furious!).

In other words, this Opcode guy goes to Apple to work on base-level midi & audio services for OSX, and people hear this and misunderstand, and assume that this means he's reproducing SVP for Apple as an OSX app.

He didn't have any definite information, but this was just based on information he had heard from other former hardcore SVP users.

Oh, and on a different subject my friend also said he had heard the rumors of Apple negotiating to purchase Avid (and by extension, Digidesign) recently, too. I trust him on this one especially because he's an engineer for a TV station and they interact with Avid quite a lot.
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post #31 of 40
1/9/02 at 3:08pm
How many people have digital cameras?
How many people have CDs, MP3s, and MP3 players?
How many people have digital camcorders and other ways of getting footage?
How many people have DVD players and movies, video, and pictures to put on DVDs?

Millions. Tens of millions. Who doesn't have CDs and pictures, and doesn't like 1 in every 3 or 4 American homes have a DVD player?

Now..

How many people have synthesizers/keyboards and are interested in MIDI stuff and work with audio like that? Even out of the Mac creative community.. not nearly as many. Probably less than a hundred thousand or two altogether, and that's being QUITE generous.

Still, I'd love to see more software on the Mac. Not an iApp, but a Pro app for this would really be great, and if Apple did it I'm sure it would be better than almost everything else out there. So, here's hoping.

[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: bradbower ]</p>
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post #32 of 40
1/9/02 at 3:31pm
The midi & digital audio field is one of the few segments of the market where Mac owners can look down their noses at Windows PC owners and say "Too bad you can't get all this great software for YOUR computer!"

Even though you can get a Windows version of Pro Tools, I don't know a single serious user of Pro Tools on that platform.

The only thing I wish we had for the Mac is a viable alternative to Sonic Foundry's ACID. I know there are multiple similar Mac programs either almost available or planned, but I haven't seen anything yet that's quite as good as ACID for audio loop-based composition.
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post #33 of 40
1/9/02 at 3:32pm
The guys at Gibson that take care of Opcode legacy issues are in a group call Gibson Labs. They do minor, minor support for Opcode users. I don't see Gibson, or anyone else, investing big in Opcode stuff, but it seems like Gibson Labs is working on some kind of software. I think it's just TDM plugins and stuff, though.

Cheers.
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post #34 of 40
1/9/02 at 3:38pm
Man, "bought by Gibson" is the kiss of death for any music industry company, seems like.
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post #35 of 40
1/9/02 at 9:11pm
Picking up Doug Wyatt from Opcode was a good thing for Apple.

I do agree with Brad that Midi/Home Recording is just too much of a niche for Apple to enter. I think this is one areas where the 3rd party market for Apple is alive and thriving.

Sizzle Chest- I agree about the Acid Pro thing. Have you tried Phrazer from Bitheadz.com? I have yet to hear it or see it in action.
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post #36 of 40
1/9/02 at 9:53pm
I have yet to use/demo Phrazer myself, but I heard fairly negative things about it from somebody who was ALSO looking for a sort of "ACID for Mac." His exact comment was "I'd rather keep using Windows occasionally than try to get Phrazer to work as well as ACID."
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post #37 of 40
1/10/02 at 1:32pm
[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>I have yet to use/demo Phrazer myself, but I heard fairly negative things about it from somebody who was ALSO looking for a sort of "ACID for Mac." His exact comment was "I'd rather keep using Windows occasionally than try to get Phrazer to work as well as ACID."</strong><hr></blockquote>


Sizzle check out this from <a href="http://www.xlr8yourmac.com" target="_blank">www.xlr8yourmac.com</a>
<a href="http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/audio/issue68.html" target="_blank">http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/audio/issue68.html</a>


It's about a product called Ableton Live <a href="http://www.ableton.com" target="_blank">www.ableton.com</a>

" is something I came across a month or so ago, downloaded the demo, and really liked it. Well, I bought a copy today at Macworld (Guitar Center was selling it at their booth for $220) after watching a demo at the Midiman booth (Midiman is distributing Live). The easiest way to understand what Live is all about is to think of Acid for the Mac... and then add a bunch of features for live performance.

Using Live in a live environment, you can easily and quickly trigger loops and groups of loops, edit loops, change tempo, change loop start and end points, etc, all on the fly. VERY cool. I bought it mainly because I wanted to take my Particle Salad project out on the road in the not too distant future, but didn't want to hire a whole bunch of musicians in order to realize the material.

Live will sync to MTC and (unlike Acid) Midi Clock, which makes it a great compositional tool. I intend to sync it with Cubase VST on my G4 533 and pipe it in to Cubase via Rewire. I'll let you all know how it works after I've had some time with it.

It will work with pretty much any audio source files, though it doesn't recognize the audio metadata in Acid .wav files, so you'll need to figure out tempo and pitch manually. It runs under OS9, and there's currently an OSX preview release on Ableton's site. Download it yourself, and let me know what you think. It lists for $299."

There is hope yet.

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: hmurchison ]</p>
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post #38 of 40
1/11/02 at 9:21am
I just viewed the semi-helpful Quicktime demo movie for Live, and it looks like something that would work for me.

It looks like a multi-state version ACID. That is, you can not only set up multi-part loops, but you can also switch between one "state" and another, or different (or multiple at once) combinations of loops.

For what I do, this might be JUST the trick. I probably wouldn't be using Live the way it was intended (I'd do really long ambient loops, not BPM-measured percussive stuff) , but then again I don't really use ACID the way it's intended either.
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post #39 of 40
1/11/02 at 9:24am
Ableton is selling Live for $349 on their web store. Are you sure the list price is $299? Or is that just GC's regular price?
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post #40 of 40
1/11/02 at 12:32pm
[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>Ableton is selling Live for $349 on their web store. Are you sure the list price is $299? Or is that just GC's regular price?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Must have been a Macword Special. God I can't wait until summer..unfortunately that's when I will be getting my next Mac. Hopefully it'll be a G5.
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