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More Iran Booga Booga

post #1 of 143
Thread Starter 
Better get used to this in the run-up - at least this one has amusement value and it's kind of ok to laugh as we're not at the stage of actual killings yet.

It seems that someone at the Ministry of Invasions or whatever they call it has been at the wacky baccy again - the latest claim is that new 'hardline' Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a terrorist and a kidnapper.

Apparently, in the latest bid to beat the war drums, Ahmadinejad is alleged to have taken part in the 1979 hostage-taking at Tehran's US embassy - some of the former US hostages have said they recognise Mr Ahmadinejad as one of their captors.

Ex-hostage Chuck Scott said in an inspired line:

Quote:
You could make him a blond and shave his whiskers, put him in a zoot suit and I'd still spot him.

This is probably true actually - in fact you could prove Ahmadinejad wasn't born at the time and they would still spot him.

Back in the real world however, there are other problems for the winger warheads. Three of the known kidnappers deny that he was involved.

Quote:
Another top student leader, Abbas Abdi, also denied the allegations as did Hamid Reza Jalaiepour, a third hostage-taker.

The BBC's Frances Harrison in Tehran says the three former students are now reformists who oppose hardliners like Mr Ahmadinejad, and would have no reason to hide his involvement now.

Which should be the end of that as these reformists have every reason to accuse him if it was true - they are politically opposed to his party and his ideals.

There is also a comical and rather lame photo published on some winger site which does nothing to clinch the case. Clearly they are two different men.

It's incredible the depths they'll sink to - it's like the Keystone Cops. Pathetic.
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post #2 of 143
Just Blow up their Nuclear Power Plant and get it over Who care's what zealot is running their show as long as they dont have Nukes i could care a less. BLOW IT UP NOW BEFORE ITS TO LATE!
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post #3 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Just Blow up their Nuclear Power Plant and get it over Who care's what zealot is running their show as long as they dont have Nukes i could care a less. BLOW IT UP NOW BEFORE ITS TO LATE!

You're something in the government aren't you ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #4 of 143
Aurora's not entirely off base.

Iran with Nukes is not a pretty picture . . . there is no need to start a war . . . just some precision targetting.

at least so goes my more knee-jerk sentiments . . . . if I thought about it more perhaps I would think diferently, right now, Im not so sure
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

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--Franklin Miller.

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #5 of 143
A former hostage says this guy was one of the people who held him and you have to turn it into a right-wing scheme segovius?
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post #6 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
There is also a comical and rather lame photo published on some winger site

When will people realize that CNN picks up FoxNews' crumbs?



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post #7 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam

Iran with Nukes is not a pretty picture . . . there is no need to start a war . . . just some precision targetting.

Do you know how dangerous it is for the population to be exposed to Nuclear Waste stemming from the ruins of a bombed nuclear reactor? Something like Chernobyl. Ring a bell?
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #8 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Do you know how dangerous it is for the population to be exposed to Nuclear Waste stemming from the ruins of a bombed nuclear reactor? Something like Chernobyl. Ring a bell?

I dont think so, thats why they should destroy the dam thing now and talk about it later. Stop pussying around, we aint talking toys. If worried about radiation give em 15 minutes notice and let know we will bury it so they and us will be safe. Stop it now. The U.S. isnt in the mood for political games or spin games. Bush sucks as a president but if he did this today I could only cheer..Iran needs nukes as bad as i need a glass of water.
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post #9 of 143
Just because you don't think so, it doesn't mean that it's not true. Many a times people think things just to learn that they were horribly wrong.
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post #10 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Just because you don't think so, it doesn't mean that it's not true. Many a times people think things just to learn that they were horribly wrong.

Pull the spin out of your eyes and ask your spinning self why Iran needs a Nuke plant capable of producing this crap? they dont. If they want Nuke power there are plenty of plants that can do that without producing something that can be made into weapon. Hello.
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post #11 of 143
Or so you say. But I wasn't saying that Iran needs a nuclear plan - check your facts again - I was saying that bombing the shit out of the plant will expose the local population to a wide range of chemicals and whatnot that are reminiscent of Chernobyl.

Maybe there are better ways to solve problems in this world than bombing the shit out of people and things? Think about it.
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post #12 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Or so you say. But I wasn't saying that Iran needs a nuclear plan - check your facts again - I was saying that bombing the shit out of the plant will expose the local population to a wide range of chemicals and whatnot that are reminiscent of Chernobyl.

Maybe there are better ways to solve problems in this world than bombing the shit out of people and things? Think about it.

Appeasement Let everyone have Nukes That helps a lot .
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post #13 of 143
Right. OK. Let's bomb everyone. That's a much better solution than talks, negotiations, treaties, diplomacy. I guess that's the language of lunies.
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post #14 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Right. OK. Let's bomb everyone. That's a much better solution than talks, negotiations, treaties, diplomacy. I guess that's the language of lunies.

There you go again spin spin spin you must use a lot of WD40
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post #15 of 143
Have it your way.
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post #16 of 143
Let me summarise.

A: LET'S DO SOMETHING REALLY EXTREME AND DANGEROUS!
B: We can't do that. That will mean X. X is really bad.
A: OH RIIIIGHT. YOU REALLY WANT Y TO HAPPEN!!??
B: No. I don't want Y to happen. I'm just saying that X makes your plan impossible.
A: WHATEVER.
post #17 of 143
Quote:
in fact you could prove Ahmadinejad wasn't born at the time and they would still spot him.

How old is he? He does not look the 56 years old that he would have to be.
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post #18 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
How old is he? He does not look the 56 years old that he would have to be.

Born in 1956 so he is 49.

Also it isn't like he has just dropped out of space - the US has been watching his political rise for years (one would hope) and they notice this now ?

Just another ploy. File alongside WMD and the Iraqi incubator story.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #19 of 143
[deleted post where I totally misremembered and screwed up my facts]
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post #20 of 143
Rushing to war with Iran is a bad idea. They need to be watched and we need to have communication with them, but I see nothing good of an all out attack or even a strategic attack.


What does the Arab World think of Iran? I am curious.
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post #21 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Right. OK. Let's bomb everyone. That's a much better solution than talks, negotiations, treaties, diplomacy. I guess that's the language of lunies.

Take the Extreme Polarization Cap off, just for a second?

No one is advocating "bombing everyone", you peacenik looney toon.
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post #22 of 143
By the way Seg, is there ANY justification you'd accept for a war with Iran? Does it not concern you that their President has declared the the Islamic Revolution should spread world wide?
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post #23 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
Take the Extreme Polarization Cap off, just for a second?

No one is advocating "bombing everyone", you peacenik looney toon.

Yes they are. And not just on this board.

A lot of people (myself included) take the view that the US is committed to westernization of the Middle East at the very least and the complete eradication of Islam at the worst. My own pov is somewhere between those two poles.

Basically, if you look at Iraq now - that is what they want to do to Iran.

They will tell whatever lies are necessary to make it happen and when that is achieved they will tell whatever lies necessary to stop people realising their agenda.

Then they will move on to the next death-fest in Syria or wherever.

It really is as simple as that.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #24 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
By the way Seg, is there ANY justification you'd accept for a war with Iran? Does it not concern you that their President has declared the the Islamic Revolution should spread world wide?

Well, that deserves an honest answer so I have to say no, there are no justifications I would accept.

If Iran attacked the US as a nation State then I would accept the US right to retaliate though in all honesty, I can't see myself supporting them or agreeing with their probable methods, but I would accept that an unprovoked attack justifies retaliation.

That's kind of the thing with the doctrine of pre-emption though isn't it ? You never get to know for sure if it was justified.

Re the Islamic Revolution - no, it does not concern me. If you informed yourself about Islam (I don't mean this as an insult or put-down btw - just in an academic sense) you would realise this is a joke. Not intended as one but kind of like the thing any cultist might say - Falwell and co make similar statements in the US and no one takes it seriously.

But more than that, if ever it did get to the point of a possibility then other Muslims would stop it sooner and more effectively than anyone else. Shi'i are around 10% of Muslims - they have never in 1500 years of trying managed to gain this power. And that timeframe encompasses times of the Islamic empire which stretched from China to Spain.

It's just not possible - never has been historically and certainly isn't now.

You should worry about the Wahabis - they are Sunnis, have Saudi funding them and could buy uran several times over, have attacked your country several times, are fighting you now in Iraq and are not even included in the official list of threats by your own government.

I mean it seriously. Iraq was a major distraction that allowed (Wahabi) al Qaeda to regroup unmolested and Iran will do the same for the rest of the Iraqi groups. And of course it will cost far, far more to achieve in all possible terms.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #25 of 143
Thread Starter 
Seems that the US is now denying the claims, due to the overwhelming evidence of the photos which show two different people.

Oh wait...he didn't do the hostage taking but he really, really, really did kill a bunch of people in Vienna.



My God - the frightening thing is that there are morons out there who lap all this up (yes), even AFTER the 1500th lie has been priven false yet again.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #26 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Aurora's not entirely off base.

Iran with Nukes is not a pretty picture . . . there is no need to start a war . . . just some precision targetting.

at least so goes my more knee-jerk sentiments . . . . if I thought about it more perhaps I would think diferently, right now, Im not so sure

This is what has to be done, its no mystery. Just as Saddam didnt need the bomb either do these guys. This has to be made very clear for them so they have no misunderstanding. Europe seems to allways be Blind to these things but the U.S. isnt so naive. It aint easy being world police but the world has made it very clear that when it comes to Nukes they have failed. Heck the U.N. didnt even know Iran had been working on these things for 18 years. I have no faith in the U.N. on Nukes in Korea let alone Iran but i do have faith in the F22,the B1 and a few other aircraft that can reduce this threat to zero today. Give the new guy a week or two to start dismantling his program or we will dismantle it for him. No secret,no spin,no Nukes.
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post #27 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Just as Saddam didnt need the bomb either do these guys

Another sucker bought into the BS.

You know we could all respect you a bit more if you did away with the spurious justifications - just say you want to take them down because it's the plan. It's far more honest.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #28 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
This is what has to be done, its no mystery. Just as Saddam didnt need the bomb either do these guys. This has to be made very clear for them so they have no misunderstanding. Europe seems to allways be Blind to these things but the U.S. isnt so naive. It aint easy being world police but the world has made it very clear that when it comes to Nukes they have failed. Heck the U.N. didnt even know Iran had been working on these things for 18 years. I have no faith in the U.N. on Nukes in Korea let alone Iran but i do have faith in the F22,the B1 and a few other aircraft that can reduce this threat to zero today. Give the new guy a week or two to start dismantling his program or we will dismantle it for him. No secret,no spin,no Nukes.

Amen, brother
post #29 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Yes they are. And not just on this board.

A lot of people (myself included) take the view that the US is committed to westernization of the Middle East at the very least and the complete eradication of Islam at the worst. My own pov is somewhere between those two poles.

Basically, if you look at Iraq now - that is what they want to do to Iran.

They will tell whatever lies are necessary to make it happen and when that is achieved they will tell whatever lies necessary to stop people realising their agenda.

Then they will move on to the next death-fest in Syria or wherever.

It really is as simple as that.

What exactly does Westernization mean, and why is it so terrible? If Westernization means democratic government, human rights, etc, why is it bad and why should we not push for it? It doesn't necessarily mean the exporting of McDonald's and Wal-Mart to the ME.
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post #30 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Well, that deserves an honest answer so I have to say no, there are no justifications I would accept.

If Iran attacked the US as a nation State then I would accept the US right to retaliate though in all honesty, I can't see myself supporting them or agreeing with their probable methods, but I would accept that an unprovoked attack justifies retaliation.

That's kind of the thing with the doctrine of pre-emption though isn't it ? You never get to know for sure if it was justified.

Re the Islamic Revolution - no, it does not concern me. If you informed yourself about Islam (I don't mean this as an insult or put-down btw - just in an academic sense) you would realise this is a joke. Not intended as one but kind of like the thing any cultist might say - Falwell and co make similar statements in the US and no one takes it seriously.

But more than that, if ever it did get to the point of a possibility then other Muslims would stop it sooner and more effectively than anyone else. Shi'i are around 10% of Muslims - they have never in 1500 years of trying managed to gain this power. And that timeframe encompasses times of the Islamic empire which stretched from China to Spain.

It's just not possible - never has been historically and certainly isn't now.

You should worry about the Wahabis - they are Sunnis, have Saudi funding them and could buy uran several times over, have attacked your country several times, are fighting you now in Iraq and are not even included in the official list of threats by your own government.

I mean it seriously. Iraq was a major distraction that allowed (Wahabi) al Qaeda to regroup unmolested and Iran will do the same for the rest of the Iraqi groups. And of course it will cost far, far more to achieve in all possible terms.


Wait a minute. You would not support a war with Iran under any circumstances? And..you wouldn't support the US in that war, even if it was attacked by Iran?

In my opinion those statements completely disqualify your arguments as unreasonable.

Concerning Islam, Iraq, etc.

1) The exporting of the "Islamic Revolution" is not a joke in any form. We now have a nation-state that is calling for the exportation of terror to achieve political change. How is that a joke? Even if it's rhetoric, it's dangerous and potentially destructive rhetoric. And if it's not just rhetoric, said nation-state will soon have nuclear weapons. Still not laughing.

2) Muslims themselves will stop it? I see no reason to believe that. Where are Muslims now, calling for an end to extremism? Where are the Muslims within the US and the ME, decrying terrorism on a daily basis? I don't hear them if they're out there. I'm not saying that the majority of muslims are terrorists...not by any stretch. However, I hear a great deal of silence from the peaceful muslim community. Why is that?

3) Iraq: In my opinion it is the insurgents and terrorists that are the ones being distracted. That's the entire point, and it amazes me that there is really no honest discussion of it. Whenever someone brings up the theory that US has decided to have the military fight terorrists in Iraq by attracting them and coralling them there, someone screams "where are the WMD?". The fact is that the US strategy is to use the armed forces to fight terrorists rather than to have the US civilian population deal with terrorism.
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post #31 of 143
In the past, things that went on in distant continents may not have been that relevant to the US because the problems were far away and not really threats. Today the World is small. Weapons and people travel quickly from one place to another. The US Government has not only a right, but a responsibility to do what it need to do to protect the people and economic interests of the US at home and all over the World. If groups threaten us, we must take action. The first line of action is to work with the government of the nation containing the threat. This approach seems to be increasingly successful in Saudi Arabia. If the Gov housing the threat is uncooperative or itself the threat, we must take action to neutralize the threat. We dont care whom people worship or what they eat or what they chant. If they are a threat to us, however, we are left with little choice but to hunt them down and kill them. Hopefully Iran will not be this way. I dont think that it will.
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post #32 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
What exactly does Westernization mean, and why is it so terrible?

If Westernization means democratic government, human rights, etc, why is it bad and why should we not push for it?

Because it doesn't mean that. This is a war against Islam waged by proven liars - nothing they say can be trusted.

Quote:
It doesn't necessarily mean the exporting of McDonald's and Wal-Mart to the ME.

Imo, with the current US admin, it does.

Quote:
Wait a minute. You would not support a war with Iran under any circumstances? And..you wouldn't support the US in that war, even if it was attacked by Iran?

I didn't say that - read my post again and maybe we can talk.

Quote:
1) The exporting of the "Islamic Revolution" is not a joke in any form. We now have a nation-state that is calling for the exportation of terror to achieve political change. How is that a joke? Even if it's rhetoric, it's dangerous and potentially destructive rhetoric. And if it's not just rhetoric, said nation-state will soon have nuclear weapons. Still not laughing.

Ok, then let me out it more seriously for you.

the 'Islamic Revolution' you so fear from iran represents less than 8% of the total Muslims.

Of this 8% less than 1% are radicalised.

You face a threat far greater from the Wahabis and militant Sunnis who (unlike the Iranians) have literally hundreds of mosques and madrasas throughout the United States, who are not considered by your government to be a threat and who have tens of thousands of adherents. On your doorstep.

Oh, and they have already attacked you on your home soil once and are at war with you in Iraq.

Even if this Islamic Revolution' you so fear (really a minor heterodox sect) ever gets off the ground it will be crushed by other Muslims for the simple reason that they are more threatened by it than you are.

I for example would be more in the target line for writing this and other things than you ever would.

But don't let that stop you quaking with fear - it is after all your duty as a patriot.

Quote:
2) Muslims themselves will stop it? I see no reason to believe that. Where are Muslims now, calling for an end to extremism? Where are the Muslims within the US and the ME, decrying terrorism on a daily basis? I don't hear them if they're out there. I'm not saying that the majority of muslims are terrorists...not by any stretch. However, I hear a great deal of silence from the peaceful muslim community. Why is that?

I'm not talking about extremism - I'm talking about Sunnism vs Shi'ism. They are fighting right now in Iraq, have fought in the Iraq/Iran war for 10 years and throughout history.

That's what the Sunnis are fighting - your 'Iranian Islamic revolution'.

Basically, Iraq will have to be unified and the whole of the middle east too before it ever gets to square one. That has not happened for 1000 years and it sure as hell ain't going to happen now under Bush's watch.

Quote:
3) Iraq: In my opinion it is the insurgents and terrorists that are the ones being distracted. That's the entire point, and it amazes me that there is really no honest discussion of it. Whenever someone brings up the theory that US has decided to have the military fight terorrists in Iraq by attracting them and coralling them there, someone screams "where are the WMD?". The fact is that the US strategy is to use the armed forces to fight terrorists rather than to have the US civilian population deal with terrorism.

There is no discussion of it because it is nonsensical.

I could give you numerous reasons why and probably will soon. Digest the other points first.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #33 of 143
The United States is not out to destroy Islam! That is nonsense. The United States is attacking a developing klan of hate mongering murdurous thugs who want to dominate the Middle East and as a result dominate the American economy. We are not going to wait for them to strike again if we can kill them first. It is that simple.
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post #34 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
The United States is not out to destroy Islam!

You'd better start convincing people of that if you want less attacks then.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #35 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
You'd better start convincing people of that if you want less attacks then.

Islam is certainly out to destroy the united states. They hate everything about us, even if we isolate ourselves from the world, they will still want to kill us because we have nakid chicks on TV that their citizens download off the internet.
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post #36 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Islam is certainly out to destroy the united states. They hate everything about us, even if we isolate ourselves from the world, they will still want to kill us because we have nakid chicks on TV that their citizens download off the internet.

Umm....ok......

Btw - are you admitting the US is out to destroy Islam ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #37 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Umm....ok......

Btw - are you admitting the US is out to destroy Islam ?

The US is not a uniform entity, so there is nothing that the US wants to do unilaterally. There are people in the US, including some politicians, who want Islam destroied.

There are even people in the US, including public figures, that want Islam to destory the US.

Your question has no answer - but of course I was over-generalising also.
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post #38 of 143
The United States is very willing to co-exist in this World with Islam. Unfortunately, there are sectors of Islam that are not willing to co-exist with us. Many other Muslims are victims of misinformation from the anti-American Arab press (ie AJ). They are also fed bad information from our own leftists who boil with hated for President Bush.
Moe has left the building
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Moe has left the building
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post #39 of 143
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
The United States is very willing to co-exist in this World with Islam. Unfortunately, there are sectors of Islam that are not willing to co-exist with us. Many other Muslims are victims of misinformation from the anti-American Arab press (ie AJ). They are also fed bad information from our own leftists who boil with hated for President Bush.

I hate to say it but there sectors of the U.S. that are not willing to co-exit with Muslims, Jews, non-believers, non-whites, etc.

I guess I shouldn't admit those nasty little realities of our own society. I guess I hate America.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #40 of 143
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
The United States is very willing to co-exist in this World with Islam. Unfortunately, there are sectors of Islam that are not willing to co-exist with us. Many other Muslims are victims of misinformation from the anti-American Arab press (ie AJ). They are also fed bad information from our own leftists who boil with hated for President Bush.

The first statement is demonstrably false. The US and the west in general is intent on opening new markets in various regions of the world - in fact it has to - and the ME is one of the area that are targeted for this.

Unfortunately this puts Capitalism on a crash-course with Islam, the two cannot co-exist as they are mutually exclusive.

Of course, living in harmony is possible - but only if the west did not attempt to develop these markets. This it will not refrain from doing - so no harmony is possible.

Islam is quite prepared to live and let live if the west kept to itself. this worked well in the past when resources were abundant but now they are dwindling the west must be predatory - this is the cause of the problem.

Islam will not - and should not - stand for it. No country should from anyone - not India with the British, not Tibet with the Chinese - no-one.

Re 'bad information', I think you have it the wrong way round. moist Muslims and Middle Easterners know very well the sort of games the US likes to play - they have after all seen it in the raw up close and personal. It is the west that has no idea of what Islam is (witness this very thread) nor does it want to - of course westerners do not even have access to the truth of what is happening. it is their own right-wing media and government that is lying to them not any leftists.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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