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Novak/Plame

post #1 of 346
Thread Starter 
Are we nearing a breakthrough in the CIA-leak probe?

I'll admit, a constant diet of John Stewart has left me hating Robert Novac, detestible little slug man that he is.

I'll be unhappy if somebody big does not go to jail for treason regarding this issue - I'm kind of looking forward to it in a "throw the christians to the lions" circus maximus kind of way.

The politicians need to get a serious smack upside the head that lets them know that revealing CIA identities is off limits when you want to score pollitical points or get revenge.
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post #2 of 346
Give me a K, give me an A, give me an R........
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #3 of 346
It wouldn't be surprising if Mr. Rove was the source of the leak...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #4 of 346
Thread Starter 
He will probably get a presidential pardon anyway, though.

I'll have a lot more respect for Bush if he does not do a Clinton-style mega pardon at the end of his last term, but I am not hopeful.

Imagine if he frees all the Enron folks...
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post #5 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Imagine if he frees all the Enron folks...

Wouldn't they actually have to go to jail first?
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post #6 of 346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Wouldn't they actually have to go to jail first?

http://www.accountancyage.com/accoun...exec-goes-jail
http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...-fastows_x.htm

Skilling, lay, and a bunch of others are bound to be in jail around 2008, when the pardon-o-rama starts.
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post #7 of 346


So...

It's pretty firmly established that Rove is the one who leaked Plame's name.

Here's my running question, and it's one that's going to be answered over time... how do Republican loyalists feel about someone who will out an undercover CIA agent because of partisan bitterness?
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post #8 of 346
Isn't Rove the Republican political mastermind?

How does someone outside elected office even get to know who's a CIA agent?
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #9 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Isn't Rove the Republican political mastermind?

Yes.


Quote:
How does someone outside elected office even get to know who's a CIA agent?

Come now, my naive friend.
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post #10 of 346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Come now, my naive friend. [/B]

Well, if GWB told him - maybe the treason goes even higher...
Rove may not be guilty any more than the reporters, since he is not a member of government - it would be the person who told him, maybe?
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post #11 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
since he is not a member of government

Actually, he is currently (since Bush took office) in an appointed position as senior advisor. .gov bio
post #12 of 346
It's only treason if you have oral sex with a fat chick.
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post #13 of 346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
It's only treason if you have oral sex with a fat chick.

Ha ha - Clinton comitted purgury, not treason, and it was for the lie, not the sex.

But the sex was pretty foul. I heard that he used cigars to stimulate Monica, and then gave those cigars out to Republican Senators as gifts.
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post #14 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Ha ha - Clinton comitted purgury, not treason, and it was for the lie, not the sex.

But the sex was pretty foul. I heard that he used cigars to stimulate Monica, and then gave those cigars out to Republican Senators as gifts.

Not quite...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #15 of 346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Not quite...

Not specific enough.
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post #16 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
It's only treason if you have oral sex with a fat chick.

To quote Bob Dole from that era:

WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE!

Indeed.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #17 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Not specific enough.

She gave the president cigars which he evidently chewed on or somesuch that she had inserted into her nether regions...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #18 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Ha ha - Clinton comitted purgury, not treason, and it was for the lie, not the sex.

And in a delicious - if ridiculous - irony, it's starting to sound like this case is going to be about the perjury, not the treason.
post #19 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
She gave the president cigars which he evidently chewed on or somesuch that she had inserted into her nether regions...

post #20 of 346
After all the contemptuous right wing sneering that Clinton was reduced to lawyerly semantic games such as "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is", it appears that we will be treated to Rove arguing that he didn't lie under oath because telling a reporter that Valerie Plame is a CIA agent is not the same as telling a reporter that "Joe Wilson's wife is a CIA agent", or perhaps arguing the precise definition of "knowingly", or some such.

Pass the popcorn.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #21 of 346
Oh, and if Rove gets "frog marched out of the White House in handcuffs", in Joe Wilson's memorable phrase, how long before Bush starts turning in spastic little circles, bumping into the furniture and croaking "See, some folks say .....bring it on the...... freedom march, but fool me again.....see, terrorism....9/11....." over and over again.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #22 of 346
Wait, that's pretty much what he's doing now.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #23 of 346
Karl Rove and Robert Novak, two fine and honorable Americans who put their country's interest ahead of their own... Sniff, sniff, brings tears of nationalistic pride to my eyes...
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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post #24 of 346
I'm waiting for one of the usual suspects around here to claim that this is just liberal revenge for Clinton or a desperate attempt by Democrats to insure to Rove is politically castrated before the '06 and '08 elections.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #25 of 346
Whoever it was that did it, has already been rendered 'above the law'. There will be no prosecution, the media will continue to pay no attention, and all the 'publicity' that will remain is rumbling and disgruntlement on boutique/fringe websites like democraticunderground, etc. The general public is largely unaware of the scandal, and will remain so.

I hope I will be proven 100% wrong, but I know that I will be 100% correct. Watch this space.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #26 of 346
Dammit sj, how can you be so cynical? Can't you see our honorable administration is WORKING HARD to insure that freedom marches forward...
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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post #27 of 346
The President said, "freedom is MARCHING forward...". Get it? MARCHING, boots in unison... Heh, heh, heh.
You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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post #28 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by hardhead
The President said, "freedom is MARCHING forward...". Get it? MARCHING, boots in unison... Heh, heh, heh.

How can freedom march ? I thought Bush said it grew ? Or blew - I'm sure he said winds of freedom are blowing ?

Which is it - blowing, growing or marching ?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #29 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
How can freedom march ? I thought Bush said it grew ? Or blew - I'm sure he said winds of freedom are blowing ?

Which is it - blowing, growing or marching ?

It's metastasizing.
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post #30 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
It's metastasizing.

Na - I think it just blows.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #31 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Na - I think it just blows.....

...hard.
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post #32 of 346
Man, Rove and Novak, two SUPER PATRIOTS!
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You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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post #33 of 346
Didn't Rove get fired from the Bush I 92' presidential campaign for a leak to................










Robert Novak?

The usual suspects are gathering info. from obscure winger blogs for their usual fanatical defense of anything related to Bush.
post #34 of 346
From Lexis-Nexis:

Quote:
ONE OF THE great pleasures of studying history is the discovery that the interesting stuff is often in the footnotes.

That's where you find material not important enough for the main text, but too much fun to omit altogether.

This is such a footnote. It has to do with one of the great controversies of this political season - columnist Robert Novak's outing of CIA undercover operative Valerie Plame - and the controversy's Houston connection.

There were reports last week that the FBI's probe into what may be a criminal offense of disclosing the name of an intelligence operative has expanded.

Agents have questioned a number of high White House officials, and with good reason.

James Reston, former New York Times Washington bureau chief and columnist, once described government as "the only vessel that leaks from the top."

Novak brought that quip to mind when he wrote that "two senior administration officials" told him of Plame's profession.

The disclosure appeared to be part of an effort to discredit Plame's husband, former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, who publicly debunked a White House contention that Iraq had been trying to buy uranium to build nuclear weapons from Niger.

Washington gossip mills immediately focused on President Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, as the possible leaker to Novak.

And in Houston, some eyebrows raised.

The reason: The Rove-Novak speculation seemed an echo from the 1992 re-election campaign of President George H.W. Bush.

Novak wrote a column then describing a secret Dallas meeting in which Houstonian Rob Mosbacher was stripped of his authority as state campaign manager for Bush because "the president's re-election effort in Texas has been a bust."

Novak wrote that the meeting was called by then-U.S. Sen. Phil Gramm.

"Also attending the session was political consultant Karl Rove, who had been shoved aside by Mosbacher," wrote Novak.

Mosbacher met with top leaders of the campaign, including George W. and Dallas Republican heavyweight Fred Meyer, who assured him they did not consider the campaign to be a bust.

Mosbacher laid out his suspicion that Rove was the source of the Novak column.

Rove, a direct mail specialist, had the entire contract for that service in Bush's 1988 campaign, Mosbacher recalled recently.

"I thought another firm was better," he said. "I had a million dollars for direct mail. I gave Rove a contract for $ 250,000 and $ 750,000 to the other firm."

"I said Rove is the only one with a motive to leak this," Mosbacher recalled. "We let him go."

Novak has since denied Rove was the source of that leak. In a profile last spring, Texas Monthly quoted Rove as saying, "As far as I know, Mosbacher still thinks I am the one who did it."

He's right.

"I still believe he did it," says Mosbacher, who is not pleased to have the matter resurrected.

Mosbacher does believe Rove's denials this time, however.

"I think he's a smart guy, and I don't believe he would break the law," he says.

That 1992 Novak column echoed again last week when former President Bush riled some conservative Republicans by presenting the George Bush Award for Excellence in Public Service to Sen. Ted Kennedy at the Bush Library at College Station.

"The right grumbles that moderate Republican Tom Luce, Ross Perot's lawyer and chairman of his aborted presidential campaign, was feted by the Bushes with an overnight White House stay," wrote Novak. "Luce still has not endorsed Bush at this writing, while right-wing activists who labor for the president are snubbed."

Current President Bush, with Rove at his side, clearly has taken Novak's warning to heart.

From the Houston Chronicle in 2003.

Thank God the UT journalism school never changes its Lexis-Nexis password.
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post #35 of 346
I have to admit I didn't follow this too closely early on, and I'm a bit baffled as to why Novak isn't in the gallows over this like Miller and Cooper, aside form obvious political conspiracies, and how these people and their sources all tie together. I also have my doubts about Rove's position in this, that is to say that I doubt things will be brought back to him regardless of whether he was one or the source. I'm sure some others will be hung as proxies and for some roles in abetting this. Richard Perle apparently might be one such martyr, Like it or not, deservedly or not, I'm not sure.
post #36 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by BuonRotto
I'm a bit baffled as to why Novak isn't in the gallows over this like Miller and Cooper.

So am I. Unfortunately, the usual suspects are more eager to bash Bush than discuss the issue.

Grove, you have a background in law, don't you?

Considering that Novak was the one who outed Plame and said he was personally informed by officials, why is he not being legally pursued?
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post #37 of 346
oops
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #38 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Baffled? Oh c'mon!


It's sad that this is what passes for informed discussion on the left nowadays.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #39 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
It's sad that this is what passes for informed discussion on the left nowadays.

The chances of Novak, or anyone on that side getting charged, let alone convicted....is as remote as an alien spacecraft landing in the middle of Washington DC.

Sheesh....when we have got the apparently elected government appointing people with close connections to notorious terrorist groups and the international narcotics trade to positions of power, such as John Negroponte, or Otto Reich, or even protecting closely allied Latin American terrorists on US soil, such as Luis Posada Carriles or Orlando Bosch, or nominating convicted bank fraudster Ahmed Chalabi to a senior position in Iraq... and so on, and so on......like then the chances of small fry traitors such as Novak getting to face justice is a nonstarter. The US justice system is getting in on the new fashion of cherry picking... and when we have an administration that is in league with big terror and big crime, then what hope has anyone got?

Wake UP!!!!! Novak etc. will N O T be charged, period.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #40 of 346
I don't have a background in law, that's my dear beloved wife. I'm a journalism grad.

Novak isn't being pursued because he likely cooperated right away and gave up his source. Indictments don't have to be public, so it is extremely likely that Novak sold his source up the river at first bark and is simply keeping silent about it.

The other two (you know, the two with actual morals and principles) are protecting their source (by either keeping quiet or waiting for permission from the reveal).

Here's my own personal idea:
I think Novak is being given special treatment, but I don't think he escaped indictment. I would bet money that they didn't grill Novak very hard at all because they knew they were going to get to go after some others who were not Bush loyalists like Novak.

In short:
Novak hasn't necessarily been skipped over by the prosecution; I think it is unlikely that they would just ignore him. However, he is a wretched piece of human filth who I would like to see exit earth very soon who is probably getting a little bit of preferential treatment.
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