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Novak/Plame - Page 6

post #201 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I dunno, I just expected something different, if Miller or Cooper were leaking names you'd think they'd be getting keel hauled as well in the news, but the coverage is "fixed about" the administration being little political devils, and not all those involved.


weird.

Miller and Cooper weren't leaking names. Someone whose name starts with "Karl Rove" in the WH gave them the names.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #202 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
It's weird that the media are allowed to report?

Not that, but Miller is quite the enigma at this point, but seems to be getting fairly benign coverage.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #203 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Not that, but Miller is quite the enigma at this point, but seems to be getting fairly benign coverage.

The judge ordered her to reveal her sources. She refused. She's in jail for contempt.

Why is that odd? The point is to find out who gave these reporters their information.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #204 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Miller and Cooper weren't leaking names. Someone whose name starts with "Karl Rove" in the WH gave them the names.

Yes, and Rove got her name from Novak, and told WH security about his call with Cooper.

Wierdness.

ANYWAY, I'll shut up until the GJ does it's thing.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #205 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Yes, and Rove got her name from Novak, and told WH security about his call with Cooper.

Huh? Novak cited "two senior administration officials" as his sources on this CIA operative. Cooper was contacted a few days earlier by Rove himself, who told him that Plame was an operative.

Why are you so confused, again?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #206 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
ANYWAY, I'll shut up until the GJ does it's thing.

Wow, you and the president are going to be doing the same thing on this matter. Weirdness.
post #207 of 346
CNN columnists asks:
How Dumb Do They Think We Are?

I think an equally important question is: how dumb are Bush apologists willing to pretend to be?
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post #208 of 346
post #209 of 346
One thing this whole thing has done once again, is giving Bush another chance to lie.

"I will fire anyone in my administration who was invlolved with exposing the identity of Valerie Plame." <--- LIE

"I will fire anyone who has committed a crime" <--- New Line

Why? Because it's obvious, without any doubt whatsoever, that Karl was "involved".

Now, even if Karl is convicted, Bush could always deny the verdict or twist his words once again...
post #210 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
One thing this whole thing has done once again, is giving Bush another chance to lie.

"I will fire anyone in my administration who was invlolved with exposing the identity of Valerie Plame." <--- LIE

"I will fire anyone who has committed a crime" <--- New Line

Why? Because it's obvious, without any doubt whatsoever, that Karl was "involved".

Now, even if Karl is convicted, Bush could always deny the verdict or twist his words once again...

Bush line, October: "I will fire anyone convicted of a felony and sentenced to no less than 25 years in a maximum security prison within a 50 mile radius of the greater metropolitan Washington area. See, I've been very clear about this from the start".
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #211 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
CNN columnists asks:
How Dumb Do They Think We Are?

I think an equally important question is: how dumb are Bush apologists willing to pretend to be?

Unfortunately, they don't think we are dumb, they know it!! Look at the scale and number of lies that this administration has pulled over the eyes of the American people!!!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #212 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Unfortunately, they don't think we are dumb, they know it!! Look at the scale and number of lies that this administration has pulled over the eyes of the American people!!!

It's simply astounding. And the "liberal" press just passes them along.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #213 of 346
How convinient to have Bush pick a controvertial nominee two weeks early . . . . . . gee . . . and the news, even NPR, is happy to not even think twice and brush Rove under the rug . . . .

Luckily it isn't a media matter alone . . . .

anyway . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #214 of 346
A lot of the "liberal" press has mentioned that fast-tracking his nomination could well be an effort to change the subject from Rove, after which they drop all mention of Rove.

(Sigh) It would be kinda funny if it wasn't so depressing.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #215 of 346
No kidding! This pisses me off sooo muooh! A shiny thing over there!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #216 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
How convinient to have Bush pick a controvertial nominee two weeks early . . . . . . gee . . . and the news, even NPR, is happy to not even think twice and brush Rove under the rug . . . .

Luckily it isn't a media matter alone . . . .

anyway . .

Um, pfflam, it's been almost three weeks, and alot longer than that with Rehnquist threating to keel over at any minute.

Don't worry they haven't called off the GJ.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #217 of 346
Look! Butterflies.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #218 of 346
The current media climate is like some kind of genius articulation of a self-negating, circular system of untethered signifiers. French deconstructionists have nothing on this gang:

"The Bush Administration today announced a plan to preoccupy the media with its plan to preoccupy the media. Here with an in-depth analysis of whether or not such a plan could be effective is our correspondent in Washington....."
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #219 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Look! Butterflies.

Look! Cancer
Look! 80 years old
Look! tracheotomy

Look! For a replacement!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #220 of 346
Bloomber Report confirms that Bush rushed the nomination to take heat off Rove (not that that is a revelation to anyone who's paying attention):

Quote:
Bush accelerated his search for a Supreme Court nominee in part because of special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald's investigation into the leak of a CIA agent's name, according to Republicans familiar with administration strategy.

Bush originally had planned to announce a replacement for retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor on July 26 or 27, just before his planned July 28 departure for a month-long vacation at his Crawford, Texas, ranch, said two administration officials, who spoke on the condition they not be named.

The officials said those plans changed because Rove has become a focus of Fitzgerald's interest and of news accounts about the matter.

The only (slightly) surprising thing in all of this is how routine, how utterly predictable the Bush White House's relentless politicization of every single aspect of the people's business has become.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #221 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
The only (slightly) surprising thing in all of this is how routine, how utterly predictable the Bush White House's relentless politicization of every single aspect of the people's business has become.

I agree with you more often than not, but I have to say "What else do you expect?"

Any president is a political creature, not just this white house. I agree that the polarization of politics seems worse now and the Bush camp plays a big part in it, but they are not playing alone. Reasonable politicians who occasionally take the other party's side in the interest of doing what they feel is correct are few and far between. I respect McCain in this regard, although I don't share many of his conservative ideals. I like Feinstein from my state as well, but we also disagree on issues.

I'm just affraid our political system has selected and nurtured the worst among our possible leaders. That is the real problem, that is what gives the Roves of the world their power and influence, because these nasty characters are the architects of our government.
post #222 of 346
Seems that Plame's status as a CIA officer was definitely classified!

Quote:
A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret, a clear indication that any Bush administration official who read it should have been aware the information was classified, according to current and former government officials.

Plame -- who is referred to by her married name, Valerie Wilson, in the memo -- is mentioned in the second paragraph of the three-page document, which was written on June 10, 2003, by an analyst in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), according to a source who described the memo to The Washington Post.

The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072002517.html
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post #223 of 346
When are the members of our Intelligence Services going to get fed up with being shat on by this administration . . .

oh yeah . . . I forgot, any Service member who might not like getting Reamed was fired when the new 'non-partisan' Ideologue Head took over . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #224 of 346
Very clever of the President to blow this subject out of the media with his nomination. Rove himself may have had something to do with that timing. Just another slam to the left.
Moe has left the building
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Moe has left the building
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post #225 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
Very clever of the President to blow this subject out of the media with his nomination. Rove himself may have had something to do with that timing. Just another slam to the left.

Yeah! I don't give a shit about whether or not the president's closest advisor outed a CIA agent as political payback for challenging the administration's lies about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction! How dare the media care about it, either! And that damned grand jury? Bastards all!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #226 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
Very clever of the President to blow this subject out of the media with his nomination. Rove himself may have had something to do with that timing. Just another slam to the left.

It sounds like you're actually commending the president for a job well done. As if you're not at all concerned that a covert CIA agent might have been exposed by a high ranking member of the president's administration for political payback.

Don't you have any sense of ethics?
post #227 of 346
If Rove is found guilty of a crime, then he should go to jail. The rest of this babble is just another feeble attempt by the Bush-haters to try to bring the President down. This is no different than those who stayed up nights trying to bring President Clinton down. Those folks failed and so will these.
Moe has left the building
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Moe has left the building
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post #228 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
If Rove is found guilty of a crime, then he should go to jail.

What if he didn't technically commit a crime but did something horribly unethical, nonetheless?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #229 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas

Very clever of the President to blow this subject out of the media with his nomination. Rove himself may have had something to do with that timing. Just another slam to the left.


If Rove is found guilty of a crime, then he should go to jail. The rest of this babble is just another feeble attempt by the Bush-haters to try to bring the President down. This is no different than those who stayed up nights trying to bring President Clinton down. Those folks failed and so will these. [/B]

Wait, so the President should make full use of Rove as political attack animal right up to the point that he is convicted of a crime, whereupon he should go to jail; and that is good politics in your book and a satisfying "slam to the left".

These must be some of those mysterious "main-stream" values that account for the President's robust support by the real America.

Oh wait.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #230 of 346
Morality is to not break the law.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #231 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Morality is to not break the law.

It is not illegal to have an affair, but it is immoral.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #232 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
It is not illegal to have an affair, but it is immoral.

I disagree. Depend on the situation, for instance whether one of the participants are married and if that kind of thing is tolerated within the marriage.

But actually I just wanted to formulate the motto of the new moral right.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #233 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
But actually I just wanted to formulate the motto of the new moral right.

Gotcha.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #234 of 346
Cool. And maybe they could have a flag with their motto (in latin of course) featuring a goal post with wheels rampant on a field screaming heads.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #235 of 346
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #236 of 346
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
It sounds like you're actually commending the president for a job well done. As if you're not at all concerned that a covert CIA agent might have been exposed by a high ranking member of the president's administration for political payback.

Don't you have any sense of ethics?

YEAH!! Take that pinko commie lefties!!!!

They drop their IQs and their ethics...and their pants for the Party.
post #237 of 346
HEIL!



EDIT: OK, here's something topical... we have ex-CIA analysts who are pretty outraged, and not too shy about saying so.

Quote:
"I wouldn't be here this morning if President Bush had done the one thing required of him as commander in chief _ protect and defend the Constitution," said Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst. "The minute that Valerie Plame's identity was outed, he should have delivered a strict and strong message to his employees."

Patrick Lang, a retired Army colonel and defense intelligence officer, said Bush's silence sends a bad signal to foreigners who might be thinking of cooperating with the U.S. on intelligence matters.

"This says to them that if you decide to cooperate, someone will give you up, so you don't do it," Lang said. "They are not going to trust you in any way."
Johnson, who said he is a registered Republican, said he wished a GOP lawmaker would have the courage to stand up and "call the ugly dog the ugly dog."

"Where are these men and women with any integrity to speak out against this?" Johnson asked. "I expect better behavior out of Republicans.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072201261.html

Quote:
Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst who said he was a registered Republican, spoke harshly of the criticisms of Wilson and efforts to minimize his wife's job at the CIA.

"This is wrong. This should stop. And it could stop in a heartbeat if the president would simply put a stop to it -- he hasn't," Johnson said. "That speaks volumes."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072201350.html
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post #238 of 346
Jeesh.

Remember the 12 hour gap that then Attorney General John Ashcroft mysteriously granted then White House chief counsel Alberto Gonzales before he was obliged to let the White House know that a criminal investigation had been opened and that evidence had to be secured?

Yes, I know, the bullshit gets so thick it's hard sometimes to keep all the horrifying details straight.

This was regarded as eye-brow raising "irregular" at the time but quickly got dropped by the lap-dog Washington press, who adopted a tone of "why, to believe that the Justice Department would conspire with the White House to obstruct a criminal investigation is just so out-there it is beneath our contempt to speculate on". I believe the official line was that Gonzales was originally contacted, like, in the evening and all, and it would have been a terrible burden to get everybody at the White House all riled up when they had already had their hot milk and bed time stories, so best to just sleep on it and get a fresh start in the morning.

Isn't the criminal justice system fun when you get to make up your own rules as you go along?

Anyhoo, turns out now Attorney General Alberto Gonzales went on "Face the Nation" this morning and admitted that the first thing he did after getting his dumbfounding "window of opportunity" from Daddy Ashcroft is run tell White House Chief of Staff Andy Card. Who no doubt said, "Huh, I'll get right on that in the morning" before hitting the sack.

It's a pretty damaging admission, so you'd have to assume that the White House knows that this will come out and wanted to slip it in early with plenty of "oh, that's perfectly normal and doesn't indicate any foul play or nothin' like that" context.

From the linked article:

Quote:
The White House did not immediately respond to questions Sunday about whether Card passed that information to top Bush aide Karl Rove or anyone else, giving them advance notice to prepare for the investigation, the Associated Press reported after Gonzales' revelation.

Appearing on the same CBS show immediately following Gonzales, Sen. Joe Biden (D-Dela.) said: "The real question now is, 'Who did the chief of staff speak to?'"

Who indeed? It's going to be a tough sell to claim that he kept it to himself, and an even tougher sell to claim that once he did tell "someone" that that same someone immediately commenced preserving evidence.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #239 of 346
The rabbit hole just gets deeper and deeper, doesn't it?

Where oh where have the apologists gone?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #240 of 346
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
The rabbit hole just gets deeper and deeper, doesn't it?

Where oh where have the apologists gone?

No it does not. This is not a complicated issue - Rove is just guilty, and
I am sure he will be found that way by the court.

Chasing Rove down rabbit holes is how he wins, because you end up looking
like a crazy conspircy nut.
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