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Does Apple Pages Suck?

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
I do not have a copy of Pages, but I have been reading that it sucks, it is true? if so, what would you do to improve for Pages 1.5 or 2.0?

I'm think in getting a copy of iWork
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post #2 of 46
It doesn't suck, it just needs to add some features. Off the top of my head here are some of the ones I would really like to see added for the next release of Pages:

A book function like the one in FrameMaker.
Good Cross referencing.
A cross column paragraph style.
Running Headers.
more choices for image placement.

Basically, I want them to add most of FrameMaker's feature set to Pages so Mac users can have an up to date page layout and content creation solution suitable for long documents.
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post #3 of 46
I personally am fine with Pages feature list. My problems are bugs and interface problems. WRT bugs, it is not like it crashes or anything, but there are problems with tabs (sometimes the tabs you set just don't seem to "take"), and the other day I had this weird thing where the last page of my document would disappear whenever I changed something earlier. The interface issues revolve around the fact that, in order to create all the fancy templates, they had to introduce a bunch of page layout features, but they don't really want to intimidate people by putting these features front and center. As a result, weird things happen like if you chose "delete page" it deletes a whole section. Also, if you are typing along in one text box you can't create another text box without shifting focus to something that isn't a text box. Most Apple apps I find my self thinking "Wow, that just worked like it was reading my mind." With Pages I find my thinking "WTF, why is it doing that?"

This is not to say that Pages "sucks". For $80 it is a very powerful word processor, plus you get Keynote which beats PowerPoint hands down at any price. Think of Pages as a late beta of a really great program.
post #4 of 46
I had a much easier time making a document with pictures using pages than I did with Word. Word and its autoformat are a huge pain. I also like having the ability to export as PDF.
post #5 of 46
Um, you can export anything to PDF in any OS X application. Just click on the PDF lozenge in the bottom left of the print dialog. Pages is nothing special in that respect, I'm afraid.
post #6 of 46
I would have never known that, what we me not having a printer and all.
post #7 of 46
Considering that Pages is a first release, it is really good and you see the potential. Look at what Keynote has become as a version 2.

I'll bet that Pages v2 or v3 will be a whole lot better. Just give it time.

Look at the difference between Jaguar and Tiger. They are worlds apart. Pages is young and has room to mature.
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post #8 of 46
I'd say that Pages is weird... but brilliantly weird, like the idiot savant family member.

It's not a traditional word processor, and it's not a professional layout program. It has a lot of the capabilities of the latter, and can emulate the former pretty well though. There's no 'one way' to use it, which I think bothers some folks. You can use it as a traditional word processor, or you can use it as a layout program - the biggest confusion tends to come from people who want to do both at the same time... it doesn't handle that particularly well.

Luckily, it *does* handle the layout functions themselves rather well if they're used separately from the content editing phase of document production. If you're looking to use it as a layout system, I'd recommend writing up the content first in TextEdit, or in a Blank template document in Pages. Get that right, then set up a layout document in Pages, and cut and paste the text over in the appropriate chunks for the text boxes you arranged in the layout.

In this respect, you're using the content production and stylistic layout portions of Pages separately, which I think is the direction it will go even further. (Rather like CSS vs. HTML4 - pull out the style and layout directives and you can do some neat things.)
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post #9 of 46
I use PAGES all the time, mainly for newsletters and quick design layouts. I think the program (and iWork suite for that matter) has gotten a bad rap...

I love Pages. Sure, it can be quirky, but once you get inside using it for a while it is amazingly simple yet powerful enough to produce VERY professional looking documents. I'm proficient in Quark and InDesign (prefer InDesign) and use both regularly in addition to MS Word, but when it comes time (in my Marketing role) to write a field bulletin/newsletter or proof what a future design might resemble, I go to PAGES first.
post #10 of 46
only thing wrong with pages is my PC colleagues dont use it.
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post #11 of 46
It's not bad, it's just not very polished. For an entry level Word processor/ layout app it shows some real promise. Apple really needs to do some major tweaking to the GUI though.
post #12 of 46
I've just finished a major project at work using Pages and it was far more relaxing than using Word. I did have to convert the final file to a doc format that Word could read - a fairly simple save as.

I'm one that believes that Apple will expand iWork to include a spreadsheet and a junior version of FileMaker to cover the database needs. I also believe that there will be other apps/wizards like AppleWorks has, but with tighter integration and, maybe a personal finance/money management package that won't be called Money.
Ken
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post #13 of 46
After using Pages and going back to Word I found Word to be slow, clunky, and difficult to format number points and lists.
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post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Wingnut
I had a much easier time making a document with pictures using pages than I did with Word. Word and its autoformat are a huge pain. I also like having the ability to export as PDF.

anything in OSX can be PDFed, same on Windows, (built into OSX, requiers cutePDF (think of it as a hackers version of Distiller, only 100% legal) on Windows)
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post #15 of 46
A solid little toy, but still only a toy.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
A solid little toy, but still only a toy.

Its hardly a toy if i can write a professional document with it.
With all due respect you sound like a PCfanboy talking about an Apple Mac computer in the 80s.

Not surprisingly for a first release there are some missing features that make it harder to use in a work environmnet such as merge and better control of capitalisation but other pages features make up for it in spades..
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post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie John
Its hardly a toy if i can write a professional document with it.
With all due respect you sound like a PCfanboy talking about an Apple Mac computer in the 80s.

Not surprisingly for a first release there are some missing features that make it harder to use in a work environmnet such as merge and better control of capitalisation but other pages features make up for it in spades..

It's just Appleworks, I don't think Apple is serious. They basically need to rewrite the thing from scratch, or put some work into Open Office. At least open office exposes it's objects. I had to spec out to four textbooks using word PC and "appleworks" for eight different authors so they could format their manuscripts using styles, etc. There was no comparison.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #18 of 46
I'd be interesting in hearing more about this, dmz. What precisely did you have a problem with in Pages? (And if you'd read the threads where the AppleWorks fans were screaming about it, you'd never call it that again. Different focus, different toolset.)

I say this because I've been nothing but impressed with it when it comes to whipping up stylesheets, while Word drives me insane.
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post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
I'd be interesting in hearing more about this, dmz. What precisely did you have a problem with in Pages? (And if you'd read the threads where the AppleWorks fans were screaming about it, you'd never call it that again. Different focus, different toolset.)

I say this because I've been nothing but impressed with it when it comes to whipping up stylesheets, while Word drives me insane.

Word will do that, especially if you try to use it on the Mac --- when I run a word processor that NEEDS a dual-proc machine, there's something rotten in Redmond. Otherwise Word comes out of the box with enough stupid features turned on to make your job "unpleasant". But once you make friends, you can really shovel work out the door.

It wasn't just one thing (except for being able to use vB to manhandle the text) -- it was more like it it's 90% able to give you a certain level of control, And after that, you're just out of luck. There are also things like electronic copyeditting features/tracking changes, too that ---let's be honest --- don't show up in most people's daily workflow.

I'd go get a copy of NeoOffice. It's free, and nearly as 'robust' as Word.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Aussie John
Its hardly a toy if i can write a professional document with it.

I could easily make a professional document in apple-"works" and there is NOTHING professional about that app, I could make a professional document in notepad/wordpad, Hell, I remember using txteditor (i think that is what it was called) on MS-DOS 4 to write a book report in grade school...

all that asside, I think iWork is great, but not quite ready for prime time as a "professional" tool, it needs:

*way better export-to-office
*a keynote player for windows with wide propagation (bundle it with QT7) Exporting to movie for windows playback is not an acceptable solution on a professional level.
*spreadsheet app
*basic vector drawing app to allow for easy design and layout of schematics, heirarchial charts and such, and very basic logo design or maybe letterhead layout. Because it would be vector, the resulting output would look great on a 10-foot poster, integrated into a keynote presentation or printed on a business card. This app could also be integrated with the spreadsheet app to render fully vector charts/graphs
* tight filemaker integration - maybe make a filemaker lite or some such thing, integrate it with all apps, use it as a media/document manager(eg Adobe Version Cue) as well as a database tool
*a basic web site design tool would also be nice to compleate the workflow, and with WebObjects going out the door for free now, why not retool it into a friendly drag n drop interface and include it, the back end code generators that adhere to the standards are already there...USE THEM

this would make a professional tookset...but with the i- montra, I dont think pros are what they are shooting for...this would be so great for consumers too though, because with the apple touch, it would make life so much easier than MS office, which MANY home consumers use now-a-days
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post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
(And if you'd read the threads where the AppleWorks fans were screaming about it, you'd never call it that again. Different focus, different toolset.)


Apple(never)Works had.....fans.....and.....users.....HOLY SHIT!!!
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
[B]I could easily make a professional document in apple-"works" and there is NOTHING professional about that app, I could make a professional document in notepad/wordpad, Hell, I remember using txteditor (i think that is what it was called) on MS-DOS 4 to write a book report in grade school...


You could but it would take you much much longer to get good looking formating accross a long document
Quote:
all that asside, I think iWork is great, but not quite ready for prime time as a "professional" tool, it needs:

*way better export-to-office
*a keynote player for windows with wide propagation (bundle it with QT7) Exporting to movie for windows playback is not an acceptable solution on a professional level.
*spreadsheet app
*basic vector drawing app to allow for easy design and layout of schematics, heirarchial charts and such, and very basic logo design or maybe letterhead layout. Because it would be vector, the resulting output would look great on a 10-foot poster, integrated into a keynote presentation or printed on a business card. This app could also be integrated with the spreadsheet app to render fully vector charts/graphs
* tight filemaker integration - maybe make a filemaker lite or some such thing, integrate it with all apps, use it as a media/document manager(eg Adobe Version Cue) as well as a database tool
*a basic web site design tool would also be nice to compleate the workflow, and with WebObjects going out the door for free now, why not retool it into a friendly drag n drop interface and include it, the back end code generators that adhere to the standards are already there...USE THEM

Sure those features are good but out of that list only the first has any relevance to Word which is "considered" the "professional" word processor of the business world.
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post #23 of 46
The more I'm using Pages the more I prefer it over Word. There is a lot less clutter and I tend to focus more on what I'm writing.

In terms of Pages I would like to see an auto-correct feature, mainly because I'm not a good typist and transpose letters a lot. I also have a fairly long list of terms that I would like to be able to 'type" by using 3 key strokes - qqq is at the top of my list.

I think Apple would also benefit by having industry specific dictionaries and spell checkers, like medical and legal. The medical field is happy with Macs (check out http://homepage.mac.com/rossetantoin...ix/Index2.html) and it's a logical enhancement - especially if they can get a small revenue stream going by charging a small fee ($25.00?) for each industry package.

Other features like a spreadsheet and a database will follow before too long as Apple needs to bring the scope of the offering up AppleWorks at a minimum. I look for significant enhancements in January.
Ken
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post #24 of 46
People are expecting Indesign functionality from a Word-priced application. Sure, it could be better, but overall Pages is a great little application nice with funtionality.
post #25 of 46
I have been using Pages for about a week now and really like it. In fact, I am switching to it from Word because I really didn't need all of its features. Plus, Pages is just more responsive and less clutter.

There are a few things that bug me about Pages:

1) While typing in Pages, you can press Opt-Esc to display the little drop down menu that can help you complete words. This works fine in TextEdit.

2) Holding down the Option key while selecting text does not turn on block text selection. This works fine in TextEdit.

Note: It confuses me that these features work fine in Text Edit and not in Pages because I thought these were features of Cocoa's text services that are available to all developers and not specific features that have to be built into an app manually.

3) No easy way to left, center, or right align an inline object. In Word, you just select your inline object and then click where you want it aligned. In Pages, you have to place the cursor right next to the object and make Pages think you are going to start typing text. Then you can align your object.

4) Exporting to PDF does not preserve internal links or bookmarks. This is so goofy. If I just wanted a straight PDF of my document, I would use the "Save as PDF" button in the Print Dialog. The PDF exporting option should allow you to export your links and bookmarks you have made in your document.
post #26 of 46
The real question is what will the next version of Pages have in it? We all saw the significant changes between the previus Keynote and the one included in IWork. So if they can change Keynote that much and make it even more interesting and functional, what are realistic improvements we can expect with the next version of Pages? I know I'd love to be able to finish a project I'm working on and push one button and have it automatically exported to my .Mac webpage in HTML.

Any ideas?
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post #27 of 46
I think Pages shows a lot of potential, because of the use and focus on styles, which is the key to seperate the content and the layout (like stylesheets on webpages). But I think the use of the styles could be better.
It would be incredible cool to be able to write your text, easily apply styles as your writing using the styles drawer and THEN apply an apple layout template. Just like in keynote, where it's possible to switch themes for the entire presentation or single slides. But this is not the way pages works. Pages makes you choose a layout first and then exchange it's content with your own. This is really stupid, since the layout may influence your content and you can't switch to a different layout later. Luckily you can make Pages just open a blank page or your own template instead of the template chooser, when choosing new (in the prefs). This makes you use Pages like any other wordprocessor, you just miss the oppurtunity to use the layout templates.
However, Pages is my favorite word processor with a clean layout, great microsoft word import and export (for "normal" word documents, not fancy layouts) and nice integration with iPhoto.
post #28 of 46
Pages is as much as a toy as Spotlight and sucks as much as Spotlight. If you use Pages like you would use Word (like people trying to use Spotlight like the Finder's 10.3 search engine), you're going to be hitting a wall...fast!

Pages isn't the traditional word-processor you're accustomed to.
Just like Spotlight isn't just a simple search engine for trying to find files by file name.

If you're only interested in writing text and couldn't care less about the layout...there's a woderful app called TextEdit that has been available since 10.0.
post #29 of 46
kim kap sol, while you may believe Pages to be a "toy", several of us prefer its simplicity to MS Word. I prefer Pages layout feature for newsletters and my family loves how they look. I wouldn't dream of attempting something like that with Word. As you said, if you're looking for a word processor, TextEdit is there for all to use and it works for writing letters, as does Pages. Personally, I use Pages for all of that.

Many will never be satisfied with anything out there that isn't Word because that's all they are used to using. Personally, I'd loath Pages if it ended up being like Word. While Pages obviously will be gaining more functionality as time goes on, I would hope that Apple doesn't bow to those who want them to give them Word just with a different name.
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post #30 of 46
Not a toy here. I use it at work all of the time. Every day. Must have driven around or through this wall you talk of.
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post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Green
kim kap sol, while you may believe Pages to be a "toy", several of us prefer its simplicity to MS Word. I prefer Pages layout feature for newsletters and my family loves how they look. I wouldn't dream of attempting something like that with Word. As you said, if you're looking for a word processor, TextEdit is there for all to use and it works for writing letters, as does Pages. Personally, I use Pages for all of that.

Many will never be satisfied with anything out there that isn't Word because that's all they are used to using. Personally, I'd loath Pages if it ended up being like Word. While Pages obviously will be gaining more functionality as time goes on, I would hope that Apple doesn't bow to those who want them to give them Word just with a different name.

I think you misread what I said. I love Pages. Pages has the simplicity of Spotlight...I just think people don't use it the way they should because they're used to the alternatives and are too set in their ways.
post #32 of 46
kim kap sol, you're correct, I misread what you said because what I got from your previous post didn't sound like you were looking favorably upon Pages. There's no other writing program I use now. Makes me curious to see what the next version will be like.
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post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Brian Green
kim kap sol, you're correct, I misread what you said because what I got from your previous post didn't sound like you were looking favorably upon Pages. There's no other writing program I use now. Makes me curious to see what the next version will be like.

It's already amazing now...and it can only get better. People are being extremely harsh towards a 1.0 product that, IMO, already works pretty well. As long as Apple keeps improving Pages' import capabilities/compatiblity allowing it to display most Word documents perfectly, I'm sure people will start replacing Word with Pages.
post #34 of 46
Sorry Kim, guess I didn't quite get you either.

I just made a directory for the block I live on using Pages this afternoon. Did it all with tables, columns, loads of pictures, shadowed fonts, etc. Turned out great. Don't think I would even want to attempt this in Word.

Just for fun, I tried exporting it to Word. The tables were in completely different places in the columns and none of the pictures showed up.

Thankfully, pdf's work great. And if you use the Print>save as PDF-X the shadows will all show up on Acrobat. That is a little bug I hope they fix in the next version.
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post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
It's already amazing now...and it can only get better. People are being extremely harsh towards a 1.0 product that, IMO, already works pretty well. As long as Apple keeps improving Pages' import capabilities/compatiblity allowing it to display most Word documents perfectly, I'm sure people will start replacing Word with Pages.

Replacing Word, not anytime soon, Pages, while cute in design, is know where near the level of Word.
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post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
Replacing Word, not anytime soon, Pages, while cute in design, is know where near the level of Word.

Why not? I'm sure most people don't use 80% of the features Word offers. If the features most people use are easier and more comprehensible in Pages, people will switch.

Those that do use the advanced features of Word will keep using Word but for the average joe that needs simplicity, Pages offers it, Word does not.
post #37 of 46
OK here is a question for all you Pages folks. I have imported a document from word and PAges tells me every time I open it that I'm missing 3 fonts. I don't care about those fonts. I've selected teh entire document and tried to use a font that is installed. Then I save. Yet, when I open up the document I get the same missing font statement. How do I find the characters using these fonts? Why won't they change when I select all? I've tried Save as and copying the intire contents to a new document, still no luck.

Otherwise, I do like Pages and wish I could use it more often, but it doesn't play nice-and-easy with my scientific bibliography software (Sente or EndNote). Waiting fro version 2 or even 1.5.
post #38 of 46

APPLE PAGES ...  How do you single space when typing?  Using the resume' template won't allow single-spacing between certain lines.  I'm really disappointed in Jobs' job on his one.  I'm going to have to install Office.

Anyone know what's up with this?

 

Tks

post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by annamal58 View Post
APPLE PAGES ...  How do you single space when typing?  Using the resume' template won't allow single-spacing between certain lines.  I'm really disappointed in Jobs' job on his one.  I'm going to have to install Office.

Anyone know what's up with this?

 

2005 necro? Really? And then a slam on… Ugh… 

 

Look, Inspector/Text/Line, move the slider. You did no searching to fix your problem at all, you looked up "Pages sucks" instead. Come on.

 

 

700

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #40 of 46

It sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!  There is no save as function.  It's buggy, keyboard freezes regularly.  I hate it, hate it, hate it.
 

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