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post #81 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Health care is available to everyone (provided tht you can afford it) broadband isn't available to everyone even though some can afford it.

I think I beginning to understand your stunted logic, now, but I'm still not sure why broadband access is more important than healthcare. Surely, if broadband isn't available, good old dial-up will suffice.
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post #82 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Health care is available to everyone (provided tht you can afford it) broadband isn't available to everyone even though some can afford it.

Of course it is, silly you.
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post #83 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by audiopollution
I think I beginning to understand your stunted logic, now, but I'm still not sure why broadband access is more important than healthcare. Surely, if broadband isn't available, good old dial-up will suffice.

Maybe for you, but not for me. As I said I don't want to pay for select (ie poor peoples) living expenses but I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes for broadband because it benefits everyone. Dial up is unacceptable.
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post #84 of 113
Broadband is available anywhere you wish to. Its just a question if you want to apy for it.
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post #85 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Maybe for you, but not for me. As I said I don't want to pay for select (ie poor peoples) living expenses but I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes for broadband because it benefits everyone. Dial up is unacceptable.

Would you provide computers with this broadband? Or is that unacceptable since computers are available to everyone?

Healthcare actually isn't available to everyone... there are a large number of rural communities not covered by hospitals or even good physicians...
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post #86 of 113
Haha. Get rid of health care but provide broadband access.

I don't know if that epitomizes conservative thinking, or just 16-year-old thinking.
post #87 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Maybe for you, but not for me. As I said I don't want to pay for select (ie poor peoples) living expenses but I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes for broadband because it benefits everyone. Dial up is unacceptable.

Erm, I think you meant to say, "...it benefits me."

How the hell does broadband benefit everyone? It's a luxury. It benefits everyone who can afford a computer. Mostly, though, it benefits high-school students who are trying to maintain a highly-consumptive porn habit.

I'm sure you know someone like that.
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post #88 of 113
Quote:
Broadband is available anywhere you wish to. Its just a question if you want to apy for it.

Maybe your talking about satellite based broadband and if you are I think that form of broadband is just as bad as dial up. Sure you get fast download speeds but at nearly $70 a month this places it out of the range of most people.

Quote:
Healthcare actually isn't available to everyone... there are a large number of rural communities not covered by hospitals or even good physicians...

You see, there this thing called driving which enables you to get to places in a relatively quick manner.

Quote:
Haha. Get rid of health care but provide broadband access.

I don't know if that epitomizes conservative thinking, or just 16-year-old thinking.

Actually I just turned 18 on the 8th (wooh! I can vote!!)

Quote:
Mostly, though, it benefits high-school students who are trying to maintain a highly-consumptive porn habit.

I'm sure you know someone like that.

That was a really low blow, audio, really low. ANd actually I just graduated from high school and will be attending college this fall.
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post #89 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
You see, there this thing called driving which enables you to get to places in a relatively quick manner.

Oh, so if you can afford a car, and are within driving distance of a broadband source, there is no reason for the government to use taxes for it, right?
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post #90 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Maybe your talking about satellite based broadband and if you are I think that form of broadband is just as bad as dial up. Sure you get fast download speeds but at nearly $70 a month this places it out of the range of most people.

You have yet to give us a concise breakdown of *why* broadband is essential.

Quote:
You see, there this thing called driving which enables you to get to places in a relatively quick manner.



That assumes access to a car or public transportation. A car is a luxury, not a neccessity. Are you advocating handing out cars, too?

Quote:
That was a really low blow, audio, really low. ANd actually I just graduated from high school and will be attending college this fall.

How was it a low blow? Did you take personal offense to my assumption that you might know someone who is a large consumer of porn? Don't you know anyone who is?

If we function under the assumption that the typical person will be using the internet for email/messaging and possibly banking, a dial-up connection is more than enough bandwidth. I expect that a large portion of the people in your age group are using their broadband connections for less than enriching purposes.

I'm glad to hear that you are heading off to college. I'm sure that being exposed to a wider range of influences will be an eye-opening experience for you.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #91 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Maybe your talking about satellite based broadband and if you are I think that form of broadband is just as bad as dial up. Sure you get fast download speeds but at nearly $70 a month this places it out of the range of most people.

DINGDINGDING.

Did you know that the same is true for some people with regards to health care insurance? And in a position choosing between health care and broadband, what would you choose to do without?

Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
In the end the only person I'm responsible for is myself.

Then I don´t understand why society should provide you with anything. Roads? Build your own road to where ever you want to go. Telephone? Put up the wires to whoever you want to speak to. Mail? Water? Education? Security? Lets see how much you enjoy the money saved on taxes.

The question is NOT whether its the job of society or marked forces. The question is who will get the job done best. Sometimes its the state, sometimes its the marked forces.

Health care is provided for us over the tax bill here. The cost for our medical system is less than what you use on administration in yours! There are private hospitals and private insurance policies (and they are CHEAP compared to US) that will get you in front of the line but they are hardly used (I have one through my work) because all taken into account health care WORKS here for EVERYONE.

OTOH we had one state owned phone company up until ten years ago. We had national mobile coverage already in the mid 80´s but thats all the positive you can say about it. No customer service and high prices. Then other companies were allowed and the old state owned company was sold and now we have superb telecommunication networks everywhere at very low prices, thanks to the competition.

But yet again competition was opened on public transportation and the service fell through the floor.

So the key issue is NOT whether the job is done in the private sector or not but how effective it is done. The public sector in US is known for its ineffectiveness compared to countries like Switzerland and the scandinavian countries. So perhaps you should start there instead...?
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post #92 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Maybe so, but if Social Security was gone then the government wouldn't have anything to steal money from would they? And if you do something as dumb as what they did on Trading Spaces you deserve to starve in my opinion.

Believe it or not - you are going to pull plenty of bone-headed moves in your life (everyone does). This kind of "survival of the fittest/death to all who make stupid decisions" thing you have going may sound ideal when you are young and healthy, and when you have not had a chance to make a lot of mistakes, but you will change your tune later.

And it was "Trading Places". "Trading Spaces" is some gay English TV show.
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post #93 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Broadband is available anywhere you wish to. Its just a question if you want to apy for it.


Sorry but that's not true. In my town ( which isn't the middle of nowhere it's the state capitol ) my friend lives up on the hill from me ( a 10 min drive ). I sold her my old G4 about a year ago and she still can't get broadband. Comcast won't run a cable up there ( and it's mere feet from the road where the cable runs ). She was thinking of getting DSL but the satellite company available won't have a plan available for a few months ( read indefinately ). It's just a matter of a companies' red tape. So no it's still not available everywhere.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #94 of 113
Quote:
Then I don´t understand why society should provide you with anything. Roads? Build your own road to where ever you want to go. Telephone? Put up the wires to whoever you want to speak to. Mail? Water? Education? Security? Lets see how much you enjoy the money saved on taxes.

I think I said this before but if not I'll say it again. I don't mind paying taxes when they benefit or benefited me in some way. I don't mind paying them when they are used for roads, fire/police protection, or public schools because I use or have used this services before and will continue to use them. But I don't feel I should have to pay for programs that will never benefit me, such as Social Security. I plan on providing for my own retirement and have no sympathy for those who don't and suffer because of their own shortsightedness. Free broadband is a benefit to everyone because it means information can be aquired faster and everyone benefits from a well informed populace.

Quote:
Health care is provided for us over the tax bill here. The cost for our medical system is less than what you use on administration in yours! There are private hospitals and private insurance policies (and they are CHEAP compared to US) that will get you in front of the line but they are hardly used (I have one through my work) because all taken into account health care WORKS here for EVERYONE.

You don't understand. I don't feel I should have to pay for someone else's living expenses. I'm sure many other Americans share my sentiment. To implement such a system here in the states you would have to raise taxes by a huge amount and that to me is unacceptable. The difference between nationalized healthcare and gov't provided broadband is that indiviudal cities would be providing the broadband services. This would only happen if private companies refused to provide services to that particualr area. Your taxes might be higher in that city but you could move to another one where private service are available and you taxes would be lower. With nationalized healthcare it wouldn't matter where you moved, the taxes would still be the same (ie high) because it would be a federally implemented programs, and thus funded by federal taxes which everyone is subject to.

Quote:
OTOH we had one state owned phone company up until ten years ago. We had national mobile coverage already in the mid 80´s but thats all the positive you can say about it. No customer service and high prices. Then other companies were allowed and the old state owned company was sold and now we have superb telecommunication networks everywhere at very low prices, thanks to the competition.

We had something like this also. But instead if a gov't owned company, it was a private monopoly. The company of which I'm speaking is AT&T. Alas, the gov't broke it up. Why, Ill never understand. From what I understand phine bills where much lower than they are today (I haven't taken inflation into account, but I bet they still would be lower).

Quote:
The public sector in US is known for its ineffectiveness compared to countries like Switzerland and the scandinavian countries. So perhaps you should start there instead...?

Part of the problem is the fact that it is next to impossible to fire an employee of the federal gov't. That's why they're so slack, because they jave no fear of termination. Also the federal government has to sell contracts to minority/women owned firms instead of going with the cheapest bidder available. I think the gov't should sell contracts to the company will to do the work for the least amount fo money, and if it just so happens that it is minority/women owned then so be it. If not, too bad. I think people go to far with this diversity bullshit.
Who cares who does it as long as it gets done for the least amount of money and in the shortest amount of time possible.

Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I was off at college orientation.
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post #95 of 113
You are simply too narrow minded to understand how programs like social security and welfare actually benefit you in a very direct way.
post #96 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
You are simply too narrow minded to understand how programs like social security and welfare actually benefit you in a very direct way.

And how is that? You've not said anything I haven't heard before: "They help people." That in itself is debatable, but that's for another argument. I want to know how they help me. How do they benefit me? All I see them doing now is taking money out of my paycheck.
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post #97 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
And how is that? You've not said anything I haven't heard before: "They help people." That in itself is debatable, but that's for another argument. I want to know how they help me. How do they benefit me? All I see them doing now is taking money out of my paycheck.

Social Security is helping people right now. It's not debatable.

How does it help you? You don't have to put up with as many begging old people on the streets as you would otherwise. You don't have to put up with finding dead old people in your doorway. You don't have to young people stealing your shit to feed their starving grandparents.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #98 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
I don't mind paying taxes when they benefit or benefited me in some way. ... But I don't feel I should have to pay for programs that will never benefit me

I blame the parents.
post #99 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
And how is that? You've not said anything I haven't heard before: "They help people." That in itself is debatable, but that's for another argument. I want to know how they help me. How do they benefit me? All I see them doing now is taking money out of my paycheck.

If someone cannot afford to say, eat, and are say, desperate, they might just mug your ass and leave you lying in the gutter bleeding to death in exchange for your wallet.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #100 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Social Security is helping people right now. It's not debatable.

How does it help you? You don't have to put up with as many begging old people on the streets as you would otherwise. You don't have to put up with finding dead old people in your doorway. You don't have to young people stealing your shit to feed their starving grandparents.

Social security does nothing except absolve people of personal responsiblity. You don't have to plan for your own retirement because the gov't will do it for you. I personally feel you deserve to starve if you lack the foresight to put away money for your later years. It needs to be abolished, but unfortunately won't because old people all go out and vote to keep shit like this going while the younger generations sit on their asses and do nothign while the gov't is stelaing money from them LEFT AND RIGHT!!!

Quote:
BR Wrote:
If someone cannot afford to say, eat, and are say, desperate, they might just mug your ass and leave you lying in the gutter bleeding to death in exchange for your wallet.

They are welcome to try. There is nothing that I would defend more vigorously than my wallet. It contains all of the things I hold most dear:my caash, debit card, and credit card.
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post #101 of 113
Quote:
I was off at college orientation.

Well, that's good to hear, as you are sorely in need of some orientation.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you are matriculating at a college in your hometown, and your worldview will stay as narrow as ever during the next phase of your "education."

BTW, I'm curious - do you perchance believe that all black people (or maybe just the ones on welfare) should be put on a boat and sent back to Africa?
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post #102 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
They are welcome to try. There is nothing that I would defend more vigorously than my wallet. It contains all of the things I hold most dear:my caash, debit card, and credit card.

That is a very glib response that just makes light of the reality that desperate people to whom which you say, "support yourself or go fuck yourself" will often resort to crime in which you may very well become the victim.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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post #103 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Social security does nothing except absolve people of personal responsiblity. You don't have to plan for your own retirement because the gov't will do it for you.

You have a really distorted sense of what SS is and how much it pays. No one is living the high life on SS.

Quote:
I personally feel you deserve to starve if you lack the foresight to put away money for your later years.

That's fun to say on an internet forum, isn't it? May I suggest you go down to you local old folks home and say that? Repeatedly?

Quote:
It needs to be abolished, but unfortunately won't because old people all go out and vote to keep shit like this going while the younger generations sit on their asses and do nothign while the gov't is stelaing money from them LEFT AND RIGHT!!!

Yeah! Stupid old people! Old people are lazy and stupid!

Quote:
There is nothing that I would defend more vigorously than my wallet. It contains all of the things I hold most dear:my caash, debit card, and credit card. [/B]

Jesus. You don't have genitals, do you?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #104 of 113
Picturing Protostar and his girlfriend out for a stroll, then suddenly, a mentally unstable Desert Shield vet who has lost half his welfare benefits to conservative budget cuts (the lawmakers used twice the amount of cut money for $5000 night vision goggles for border patrol officers instead) yells, "Your wallet, or she's dead!" and takes her at gunpoint with an AK47 stolen out of Protostar's Hummer's glove compartment.

[Keanu voice]
What do you do? What do you do?
[/Keanu voice]
post #105 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Jesus. You don't have genitals, do you?

I get the feeling that shouldn't have been the first sentence I looked at in this thread.

Nevermind.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #106 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Social security does nothing except absolve people of personal responsiblity. [...] I personally feel you deserve to starve if you lack the foresight to put away money for your later years. [...]
They are welcome to try. There is nothing that I would defend more vigorously than my wallet. It contains all of the things I hold most dear:my caash, debit card, and credit card.

Wow. Just, wow.

It's so easy to be a saint in paradise.
Formerly gEEk

The [United States] Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself. --Ben Franklin
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Formerly gEEk

The [United States] Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself. --Ben Franklin
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post #107 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Fawkes
Wow. Just, wow.

It's so easy to be a saint in paradise.

"The children are our future." Kill me now. Please.
The devils that drive us do not discriminate
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The devils that drive us do not discriminate
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post #108 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by tonton
Picturing Protostar and his girlfriend out for a stroll, then suddenly, a mentally unstable Desert Shield vet who has lost half his welfare benefits to conservative budget cuts (the lawmakers used twice the amount of cut money for $5000 night vision goggles for border patrol officers instead) yells, "Your wallet, or she's dead!" and takes her at gunpoint with an AK47 stolen out of Protostar's Hummer's glove compartment.

[Keanu voice]
What do you do? What do you do?
[/Keanu voice]


Hmmmmm.....That's a tough one. I mean, she's not my wife and she's not carrying my child. Not to mention the fact that there are more girls to be gotten. Tough one. It would depend on how much cash I was carrying at the moment. If it's like a dollar and some change, sure I'd give it to him.
But if it's 40 or 50 dollars, you know that's a good bit of money. That's two tanks of gas or one PS2 game. Very hard decision.

Quote:
That's fun to say on an internet forum, isn't it? May I suggest you go down to you local old folks home and say that? Repeatedly?

What are they going to do? Beat me with their walkers? Throw their teeth at me?
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post #109 of 113
Proto is a parody of the ultraselfish. After this last response it's clear he's just trying to get a rise out of people. It's worked. I'm done with him though.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #110 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
Proto is a parody of the ultraselfish. After this last response it's clear he's just trying to get a rise out of people. It's worked. I'm done with him though.

Hey I figured that out with the broadband thing
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post #111 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Well, that's good to hear, as you are sorely in need of some orientation.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you are matriculating at a college in your hometown, and your worldview will stay as narrow as ever during the next phase of your "education."

BTW, I'm curious - do you perchance believe that all black people (or maybe just the ones on welfare) should be put on a boat and sent back to Africa?

Narrow? Why is it the left always categorizes someone with a conservative point of view as narrow minded? Noone has yet to explain how these failed social programs are benefitting America? They are a waste of money, akin to taking it from people and flushing it down the toliet. I presented an idea (i can't remember if it was in this thread or not) about hwo we could keep welfare and how everyone could benefit from it. You all compared it to slavery, looking over the fact that I said it would be VOLUNTARY!! There's my solution to the problem. Make people work for the free money they receive, and it benefits everyone.
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post #112 of 113
A mouse looked through the crack in the wall to see the farmer and his wife open a package. "What food might this contain?" He was devastated to discover it was a mousetrap.

Retreating to the farmyard, the mouse proclaimed the warning. "There is a mousetrap in the house! There is a mousetrap in the house!"

The chicken clucked and scratched, raised her head and said, "Mr. Mouse, I can tell this is a grave concern to you, but it is of no consequence to me. I cannot be bothered by it."

The mouse turned to the pig and told him, "There is a mousetrap in the house." The pig sympathized, but said, "I am so very sorry, Mr. Mouse, but there is nothing I can do about it but pray. Be assured you are in my prayers."

The mouse turned to the cow. She said, "Wow, Mr. Mouse. I'm sorry for you, but it's no skin off my nose."

So, the mouse returned to the house, head down and dejected, to face the farmer's mousetrap alone.

That very night a sound was heard throughout the house -- like the sound of a mousetrap catching its prey. The farmer's wife rushed to see what was caught. In the darkness, she did not see it was a venomous snake whose tail the trap had caught.

The snake bit the farmer's wife. The farmer rushed her to the hospital, and she returned home with a fever.

Everyone knows you treat a fever with fresh chicken soup, so the farmer took his hatchet to the farmyard for the soup's main ingredient.

But his wife's sickness continued, so friends and neighbors came to sit with her around the clock. To feed them, the farmer butchered the pig.

The farmer's wife did not get well; she died. So many people came for her funeral that the farmer had the cow slaughtered to provide enough meat for all of them.

So, the next time you hear someone is facing a problem and think it doesn't concern you, remember -- when one of us is threatened, we are all at risk.
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post #113 of 113
Quote:
Originally posted by Protostar
Social security does nothing except absolve people of personal responsiblity. You don't have to plan for your own retirement because the gov't will do it for you. I personally feel you deserve to starve if you lack the foresight to put away money for your later years. It needs to be abolished, but unfortunately won't because old people all go out and vote to keep shit like this going while the younger generations sit on their asses and do nothign while the gov't is stelaing money from them LEFT AND RIGHT!!!



They are welcome to try. There is nothing that I would defend more vigorously than my wallet. It contains all of the things I hold most dear:my caash, debit card, and credit card.

I hate to bring age into this but in this case it really does apply. It's pretty common for people to get more serious about their retirement as it draws closer to a real event. In this case you're way too young ( B. date 1987 ) to have the perspective to comment on this in any realistic fashion. As made evident by your post. I started my current job one year after you were born. There's nothing wrong with being young. However you really do look at things much differently ( because of life experience and the increasing presence of your own mortality ) when you're closer to retirement.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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