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London News: Post Experiences, Discussion Here - Page 4

post #121 of 171
Thread Starter 
on a lighter note, is big brother UK running right now? they have no clue about what happened or will big brother leak some info in, let them talk to family, or something... :just curious

take care everyone. london has been through ww2 bombing, the IRA, good on ya for weathering this one. i'd probably be a quivering mess right now.
post #122 of 171
Blimey! The BB house is at Elstree Studios, Borehamwood. The people in the house's families were checked to see that no one was involved. As this was the case they decided not to tell the housemates. I am such a saddo, I'm bloodywell hooked on this trash
"It troolee iz a feersum endjinn"
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"It troolee iz a feersum endjinn"
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post #123 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Crustibooga
Blimey! The BB house is at Elstree Studios, Borehamwood. The people in the house's families were checked to see that no one was involved. As this was the case they decided not to tell the housemates. I am such a saddo, I'm bloodywell hooked on this trash


WARNING: HUMOROUS AND POSSIBLY OFF TOPIC, IGNORE IF EASILY OFFENDED





well, at least BB UK is much trashier (and hence more fun) than the Aussie one. just pulled up day 46 off BitTorrent

damn, t&a in the sun, and this fabulous line one of the dude's just dropped: something like
"... well, you've got to decide whether to go for the easy pink or the long(?) brown...much like snooker... me, i prefer the easy pink..."

dude that's just nasty
post #124 of 171
More bombings?
post #125 of 171
Thread Starter 
unfortunately sounds like there's more shit going down
post #126 of 171
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #127 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4703777.stm

midwinter you back stateside now?
post #128 of 171
This is either amateur copycats, a good opportunity to get some info (this time the terrorists would still be alive) or a distraction from the real terror action that comes later today.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #129 of 171
Something is going on.

1) Man arrested near downing street,police draws a gun against him.

2) Police is searching a hospital with bomb dog while sealing its exits.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #130 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
midwinter you back stateside now?

Yeah. As of this past Friday (the 15th, I believe).
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #131 of 171
Detonator went off on a bus in Shoreditch, where my brother lives, about twenty minutes from my frigging house.

Apparently it went off in Columbia Road / Hackney Road, which is the heart of London's muslim quarter. Really weird.
post #132 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Detonator went off on a bus in Shoreditch, where my brother lives, about twenty minutes from my frigging house.

Apparently it went off in Columbia Road / Hackney Road, which is the heart of London's muslim quarter. Really weird.

Oof. I hope no one you know was affected. Sorry I missed you in London. I'm going to try to write a grant that'll get me in London for a couple of months next summer.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #133 of 171
This "appears" to be a screwup if Auntie is right:

Quote:
'Signature'

The head of the Metropolitan Police, Sir Ian Blair, said the new attacks were meant to cause mass casualties.

But why did all the devices fail to detonate?

Speaking on BBC Two's Newsnight programme, Mike Granatt - a government counter-terrorism adviser - said the science of bomb making was not precise.

"People who are doing things in a hurry and under tension get things wrong, - and thank God they appear to have got things wrong," he said.

\t
They can...trace back the materials that were used to make the bomb and indeed the signature of the bomb maker
Mike Granatt
He added that the clues left behind by the bombers, including fingerprints on the rucksacks, might provide investigators with a "forensic goldmine".

This, if reported accurately, could be just the break through the good guys need -- and reminds me of a scene from Henry V:

Quote:
GLOUCESTER
I hope they will not come upon us now.

KING HENRY V
We are in God's hand, brother, not in theirs.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #134 of 171
Said Hal to Gloucester during a war he's been tricked into waging by corrupt and self-interested priests.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #135 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Said Hal to Gloucester during a war he's been tricked into waging by corrupt and self-interested priests.

Touché.
"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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"Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so." - Bertrand Russell
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post #136 of 171
Some timely advice, issued by the Brazilian Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

24-July-2005

To ensure that you don't fall victim to summary execution on the London Tube system, please consider the following important rules of behavior:

1) Never run

Even if you're late going to work, NEVER RUN to catch the subway -- only walk slowly (as Englishman Sting sang: "A gentleman will walk but never run.") It doesn't matter if you miss the subway and your Thatcherite/Blairite employer fires you. Your life is more important.

2) Light clothing

No matter how cold the British climate and the subway corridors, NEVER WEAR A COAT or other thick clothing, since that could look like you're hiding explosives on you. We recommend beach attire only. It doesn't matter if you catch the influenza and your Thatcherite/Blairite employer fires you. Your life is more important.

3) White skin

To avoid being confused with Islamists for "walking while black" (or brown), try to GET A WHITE SKIN -- not even a light suntan because that looks even more suspect (Middle-Eastern). For details, you may consult with Michael Jackson.

4) White neighborhood

Living in poor neighborhoods makes you suspect, given the high density of surveillance cameras that will track you on your way from home to the subway. TRY MOVING to a white rich neighborhood.

5) If they're after you

If some shadowy plain-clothes gang starts running at you, STRIP NAKED immediately to show that you're not hiding any explosives on your body. If they're muggers -- too bad, but your life is more important. Be ready to accept a full body-cavity search, because these professionals know that any asshole could hide a hand grenade.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #137 of 171
That shit is hillarious.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #138 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
2) Light clothing

No matter how cold the British climate and the subway corridors, NEVER WEAR A COAT or other thick clothing, since that could look like you're hiding explosives on you. We recommend beach attire only. It doesn't matter if you catch the influenza and your Thatcherite/Blairite employer fires you. Your life is more important.

It's been hot as hell in London for the past few weeks.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #139 of 171
Why let the facts get in the way of a good story?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #140 of 171
Maybe they should add don't break the law and keep your visa updated.




Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Some timely advice, issued by the Brazilian Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

24-July-2005

To ensure that you don't fall victim to summary execution on the London Tube system, please consider the following important rules of behavior:

1) Never run

Even if you're late going to work, NEVER RUN to catch the subway -- only walk slowly (as Englishman Sting sang: "A gentleman will walk but never run.") It doesn't matter if you miss the subway and your Thatcherite/Blairite employer fires you. Your life is more important.

2) Light clothing

No matter how cold the British climate and the subway corridors, NEVER WEAR A COAT or other thick clothing, since that could look like you're hiding explosives on you. We recommend beach attire only. It doesn't matter if you catch the influenza and your Thatcherite/Blairite employer fires you. Your life is more important.

3) White skin

To avoid being confused with Islamists for "walking while black" (or brown), try to GET A WHITE SKIN -- not even a light suntan because that looks even more suspect (Middle-Eastern). For details, you may consult with Michael Jackson.

4) White neighborhood

Living in poor neighborhoods makes you suspect, given the high density of surveillance cameras that will track you on your way from home to the subway. TRY MOVING to a white rich neighborhood.

5) If they're after you

If some shadowy plain-clothes gang starts running at you, STRIP NAKED immediately to show that you're not hiding any explosives on your body. If they're muggers -- too bad, but your life is more important. Be ready to accept a full body-cavity search, because these professionals know that any asshole could hide a hand grenade.
Hard-Core.
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Hard-Core.
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post #141 of 171
That shit is shit.

"Wankers talking about other wankers and wanking." XamaX

I'll never get back the time i just wasted reading that post." Miami Craig
" It's like you've achieved some kind of irrelevance zen, or...

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"Wankers talking about other wankers and wanking." XamaX

I'll never get back the time i just wasted reading that post." Miami Craig
" It's like you've achieved some kind of irrelevance zen, or...

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post #142 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
It's been hot as hell in London for the past few weeks.

Hence the fact that the Brazilian man was wearing light clothing, that could never have concealed a 'suicide bomb', contrary to the heavy, bulky jacket bullshit issed by the UK authorities.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...537457,00.html
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #143 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by Alex London
That shit is shit.

Until you get murdered by the state for no reason. But then, its too late huh?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #144 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
Maybe they should add don't break the law and keep your visa updated.

Agreed about the Visa thing...but that was not why he was murdered. He was murdered because he was running to catch a train. Since when was running to catch a train against the law?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #145 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Agreed about the Visa thing...but that was not why he was murdered. He was murdered because he was running to catch a train. Since when was running to catch a train against the law?

That's what doesn't make any sense, either. Loads of people of all stripes and colors and clothing styles run to catch tube trains. I mean, hell, it's not as if London is all white people, although the BNP apparently has plans for that.

Why was this guy singled out?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #146 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
That's what doesn't make any sense, either. Loads of people of all stripes and colors and clothing styles run to catch tube trains. I mean, hell, it's not as if London is all white people, although the BNP apparently has plans for that.

Why was this guy singled out?

And according to the Metropolitan Police, the man did NOT jump the barrier. Also, according the Guardian story, the alleged killer is "on leave", but still has not been identified. How convenient.

This looks as though Scotland Yard (and the UK Home Office) is covering up for some as of yet unknown third party, taking the heat for awhile, not identifying anyone, until the story gets old and the media drop the coverage. It is most probable that none of their guys had anything to do with it; the methods used here are most atypical of UK cops, even armed undercover officers. This man was held down, he was in custody, then he took 7 bullets in the head in quick succession. This looks like a pre-arranged, deliberate and clinical kill, more characteristic of a foreign intelligence hit squad., and not a case of bad policework. Whoever the killers are, instead of hitting an Islamic man, they messed up and got a Brazilian electrician instead.

BTW, who does targeted assassinations with the blessing of both the UK and US governments?

I shall stick my neck out and make a prediction: This story will disappear from the mainstream, and the real killers' identities will remain unknown. If Scotland Yard does eventually come up with names and faces, it will be necessary to hear from eyewitnesses who saw it all happen...to confirm or reject Scotland Yard's story.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #147 of 171
The tactic is unusual. The London police have been getting instructions from the Israelis on how to deal with this (headshots). Even Livingstone has defended the policy of shooting to kill.

Again, what I don't understand is what this guy did to get singled out. Was he followed? Was he pointed out? If he wasn't dressed strangely and was merely running to catch a tube train (which is a little odd, considering you usually don't have to wait more than a couple of minutes for one), how did he even get the attention of the police?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #148 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
The tactic is unusual. The London police have been getting instructions from the Israelis on how to deal with this (headshots). Even Livingstone has defended the policy of shooting to kill.

Again, what I don't understand is what this guy did to get singled out. Was he followed? Was he pointed out? If he wasn't dressed strangely and was merely running to catch a tube train (which is a little odd, considering you usually don't have to wait more than a couple of minutes for one), how did he even get the attention of the police?

agreed, If he was followed from his home, they should have had plenty of time to intercept him before he arrived at the subway.
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post #149 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
This looks as though Scotland Yard (and the UK Home Office) is covering up for some as of yet unknown third party, taking the heat for awhile, not identifying anyone, until the story gets old and the media drop the coverage. It is most probable that none of their guys had anything to do with it; the methods used here are most atypical of UK cops, even armed undercover officers. This man was held down, he was in custody, then he took 7 bullets in the head in quick succession. This looks like a pre-arranged, deliberate and clinical kill, more characteristic of a foreign intelligence hit squad., and not a case of bad policework. Whoever the killers are, instead of hitting an Islamic man, they messed up and got a Brazilian electrician instead.

You are so quick with your conspiracy theories, sammi. Let's at least leave the most realistic alternatives open. I don't think the english media, or the world press, will let this story slip away.
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #150 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by New
You are so quick with your conspiracy theories, sammi. Let's at least leave the most realistic alternatives open. I don't think the english media, or the world press, will let this story slip away.

well, if the 7 quick shots to the head is true, then it would seem that they were after someone that they had compelling evidence on, that they were going to bring this guy DOWN. either that or the police were playing too much counterstrike at the local net cafes and got really good at headshots

the mistaken identity reasons will surface eventually. unfortunately, it won't bring this innocent brazilian dude back to life
post #151 of 171
The shoot for kill policy is wrong. I am glad that the french prime minister, said that he will not applie this policy.

"kill and then discuss"
post #152 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
well, if the 7 quick shots to the head is true, then it would seem that they were after someone that they had compelling evidence on, that they were going to bring this guy DOWN. either that or the police were playing too much counterstrike at the local net cafes and got really good at headshots

the mistaken identity reasons will surface eventually. unfortunately, it won't bring this innocent brazilian dude back to life

Yeah, but I'm afraid that right now, with the information presented to me, I find it bad policing more likely than the grand israeli conspiracy.

Sammi seems to want to drag everything into a conspiracy theory cycle. As her first instinct. To me, who maybe shares many of her basic political views, this is kind of hard to swallow.

This seems to me to be a case of substituting good political analysis, with area 52 yada yada. It just hurts the discussion. When solid evidence is one the table, fine, let's discuss it. But In most cases, the most likely explanation happens to be true.
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #153 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Agreed about the Visa thing...but that was not why he was murdered. He was murdered because he was running to catch a train. Since when was running to catch a train against the law?

By no means I am saying that running for a train is against the law.
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post #154 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
The shoot for kill policy is wrong. I am glad that the french prime minister, said that he will not applie this policy.

"kill and then discuss"

Is shoot first ask later really wrong?

It is a catch 22 (not a win-win) and I would rather they shoot first and ask later. The second they comtemplate shooting and someone does trigger a bomb, then shooting first makes sense.

As far as the FPM saying they won't, that is not a big surprise. However, I wonder how quickly (or at all) that policy would change if this was in Paris in the FPM's metro stop instead of London.
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post #155 of 171
should the death penalty be used for terrorists???maybe britain and europe should consider changing their views
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post #156 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Yeah, but I'm afraid that right now, with the information presented to me, I find it bad policing more likely than the grand israeli conspiracy.

Sammi seems to want to drag everything into a conspiracy theory cycle. As her first instinct. To me, who maybe shares many of her basic political views, this is kind of hard to swallow.

This seems to me to be a case of substituting good political analysis, with area 52 yada yada. It just hurts the discussion. When solid evidence is one the table, fine, let's discuss it. But In most cases, the most likely explanation happens to be true.

I'm not sure why you are using that tired 'conspiracy theory' fall back. It seems to have become an almost Pavlovian response to anyone who doubts official, (but absurd) explanations. I have no problems with official stories that make sense....but here, there are problems. If something looks decidely unkosher, or makes little sense, or is improbable, or unlikely, or out of character, etc etc, then there is a good chance that another explanation is, at the very least, possible, or deserves air. It is a great shame that we are expected to toe the line and digest what we are told, by default, in a faith-based, rather than fact-based standpoint.

The "foreign intelligence" possibility is off-message, I grant you that: it would be most embarassing for the Blair administration if a 'foreign "anti-terrorist" squad' had screwed up and killed an innocent man in cold blood. But a "conspiracy theory", unfortunately, has connotations of "Elvis, UFOs, and the Weekly World News"..and to label something a C.T. has become a fashionable and highly effective tool to link distasteful explanations with "wackoism", and thereby trashing valid lines of inquiry, by inappropriate and often kneejerk-type association.

We always have to be aware that the national media have a history of always tending towards government lapdog status, rather than watchdog, certainly when it comes to 'heavy' types of issue, such as this. On the other hand, as regards trivia, personal scandal, sex, and fluff-stuff etc., the national media are watchdogs, especially here in the USA (and other western style democracies). I would far prefer this upside-down sense of priorities to be reversed....but that is way too much to ever expect.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #157 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
We always have to be aware that the national media have a history of always tending towards government lapdog status, rather than watchdog, certainly when it comes to 'heavy' types of issue, such as this.

You would be hard pressed to prove that in the USA.
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post #158 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
Is shoot first ask later really wrong?

If I'd just had several bullets fired into my brain, I think one of my final thoughts would very likely be something along the lines of "Gee, this is really wrong." Possibly even "this is really, really wrong."

How about you?

On a more practical level, a live terrorist seems much better value to me than a dead one given perpetrating terrorist acts and maintaining a terrorist network relies on a high degree of secrecy in order to be successful. Using intelligence to uncover terrorist cells involves significantly less difficulty and risk, I would have thought, than trying to spot some guy with a bomb strapped to his body wandering around in a large city crowd.
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Tomorrow shall be love for the loveless;
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post #159 of 171
Quote:
Originally posted by crazychester
On a more practical level, a live terrorist seems much better value to me than a dead one given perpetrating terrorist acts and maintaining a terrorist network relies on a high degree of secrecy in order to be successful. Using intelligence to uncover terrorist cells involves significantly less difficulty and risk, I would have thought, than trying to spot some guy with a bomb strapped to his body wandering around in a large city crowd.

The argument goes like this: unless you kill the suicide bomber, he/she may still be able to set off the bomb.

This is the Israeli tactic that London has adopted.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #160 of 171
What about the situation I described in the rest of my post you left out?

Quote:
Originally posted by aplnub
Is shoot first ask later really wrong?

It is a catch 22 (not a win-win) and I would rather they shoot first and ask later. The second they comtemplate shooting and someone does trigger a bomb, then shooting first makes sense.





Yes, 7 bullets to the head woud suck and my last thought would probably be WTH is going on!!




Quote:
Originally posted by crazychester
If I'd just had several bullets fired into my brain, I think one of my final thoughts would very likely be something along the lines of "Gee, this is really wrong." Possibly even "this is really, really wrong."

How about you?

On a more practical level, a live terrorist seems much better value to me than a dead one given perpetrating terrorist acts and maintaining a terrorist network relies on a high degree of secrecy in order to be successful. Using intelligence to uncover terrorist cells involves significantly less difficulty and risk, I would have thought, than trying to spot some guy with a bomb strapped to his body wandering around in a large city crowd.
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