or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Christian Terror - Muslim Terror
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Christian Terror - Muslim Terror - Page 3  

post #81 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Well, it clearly has caused it, so that's that.

If you say so, it must be so.
Quote:
Originally posted by giant

What is with you? In case you can't read my quote above, it was about the "abortion is the murder of innocents" rhetoric that parallels the rhetoric that's been behind all terrorism throughout history, including islamic terrorism, not simple personal beliefs. Not that I disagree with the irrelevant point you made.

And I would disagree that the rhetoric is parallel or behind 'christian' terrorism. The christian 'rhetoric' preaches that abortion is wrong and hurts innocents and that we should seek to stop it non-violently.

The 'islamist' rhetoric teaches that a) the populace themselves are victims and should therefore fight back b)that their very faith has been and continues to be insulted and they should therefore fight back.

There is a huge difference in motivating people to violence between teaching people that certain behaviors are wrong and teaching people that they are victims and it is their duty to kill all enemies.
But, I guess we will agree to disagree on this point.

Quote:
Originally posted by giant

But somehow christians still account for the vast, vast bulk of terror attacks in the US.

Well, one would have to study the bible pretty long to find the part where Jesus calls his people to kill for their faith. And in the end, that should be where a christian turns to for justification of actions in the name of their faith.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
post #82 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
The fact is that there have been far, far, far more terrorist attacks in the US committed by christians because of their christians beliefs than by muslims, and you've done everything you can to skirt that simple, cold hard fact.

Okay...but is it a very interesting fact? Maybe. Maybe not.

You continue to restate your carefully worded assertion. Factually correct it may well be...but the implication that you are clearly trying to leave (while cleverly trying avoid actually saying it) is that the terrorist acts committed by "american Christians" is far, far worse than some other flavor or source of terrorism, and furthermore that it has more widespread acceptance and support from a larger percentage of "american Christians" than does Islamic-sourced terrorism does by Muslims.

Neither of these is true and you know it.

The violent acts committed by Christians (American or otherwise) is committed by an extremely small percentage of people that claim a "Christian worldview" while acting out in a violent manner inconsistent with true, classic Christian teachings and doctrine.

Do Christians believe that abortion is fundamentally wrong and immoral? Many do. Maybe most. Do these Christians advocate, support, encourage the violent acts you've outlined? Some do. Most do not.

So, your point about hypocrisy is only moderately interesting and can be summarized as: "Some people behave hypocritically." What an insightful and ingenious observation. Perhaps a Nobel prize is in the offing for you.



A futher description of what you have tried to point out is that: "Some people use certain teachings to justify violent actions and tactics." Wooaaaahhh!! Another insightful and brilliant observation.

So what?

So we've come to the conclusion that some people are hypocritical and some people attempt to justify violent tactics. This is not news.
post #83 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
implication

Chris, reign in your imagination and stop arguing with phantoms! The only implication is that religiously motivated terrorism is universal and christianity is not only far from immune, but it's the source of the ideology that has caused more terrorist attacks in the US than islam.
post #84 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
dmz - if the various christian churches wanted to avoid being tarred with this brush, they should wage an ongoing campaign against the abortion bombers instead of continuing to preach against "murdering doctors".

Nooooo, the Christian churches are being targeted with this brush for purely bigoted reasons.

One more time, in English, show me a denomination that supports or condones this violence.

This isn't complicated.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #85 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978

I know that this is the case, becuse there does not seem to be anyone else with an anti-gay agenda. You need a root cause, because there have been plenty of cultures where gay people were social acceptable and not the target of violence just for being gay.

And there have been non-christian cultures where homosexuals were ostracized.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
post #86 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
For fucks sake, chris, reign in your imagination and stop arguing with phantoms!! The only implication is that religiously motivated terrorism is universal and christianity is not only far from immune, but it's the source of the ideology driving more terrorism in the US than islam.

Quit trying to act so innocent. You know exactly the impression you are trying to leave by your statement. Your continued evasion and denial only make you look that much more foolish.
post #87 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
And I would disagree that the rhetoric is parallel or behind 'christian' terrorism. The christian 'rhetoric' preaches that abortion is wrong and hurts innocents and that we should seek to stop it non-violently ... There is a huge difference in motivating people to violence between teaching people that certain behaviors are wrong and teaching people that they are victims and it is their duty to kill all enemies.

Interesting, then, that have been far, far more terrorist attacks in the US as a result of christianity than islam.
post #88 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
So are you saying it's hypocritical for christian leaders to condemn anti-abortion bombings while promoting the cause it's based on?

Theres a big difference between being anti-abortion and wanting abortionists killed.

The Wahabbi's actually preach hatred and violence. The Mufti is spreading hatred and violence, then coming out against it once in a while.

And I bet the only reason he is is because the terrorists have started targeting Muslims as well, especially within Saudi Arabia. That threatens the status quo, where the Royals stay in power with the acquiescence of the Wahhabi Sect.
post #89 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Interesting, then, that have been far, far more terrorist attacks in the US as a result of christianity than islam.

What a crock of crap.
You are certainly not helping whatever argument you may have (and what is it exactly?) by spouting nonsense.
post #90 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Quit trying to act so innocent. You know exactly the impression you are trying to leave by your statement. Your continued evasion and denial only make you look that much more foolish.

Chris, you are seriously delusional. Go ahead with your crackpot inferences. Since direct statements can't even get through to you, it's clear that only medication can help you.
post #91 of 119
post #92 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
What a crock of crap.

almost 40 bombings, ~10 murders/executions and ~200 arsons. The facts are the facts. Deal with it.
post #93 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Chris, you are seriously delusional. Go ahead with your crackpot inferences. Since direct statements can't even get through to you, it's clear that only medication can help you.

Yes. Yes. That's exactly it. When cornered...insult.



We're done.
post #94 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Yes. Yes. That's exactly it. When cornered...insult.

Are you fucking kidding? This from the guy who called me a "moron" and an "idiot?" Chris: SEEK HELP.
Quote:
We're done.

dmz, you are right. There is a God. Bye chris!
post #95 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Interesting, then, that have been far, far more terrorist attacks in the US as a result of christianity than islam.

well, given the ratio of the two populations in the US, a few more crackpot idiots, who can't find any defense of their actions in their scriptures unless they are truly deluded, I don't find it that interesting.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
post #96 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Are you fucking kidding? This from the guy who called me a "moron" and an "idiot?" Chris: SEEK HELP.

And I apologized. You have yet to for any of your inflamatory and insulting remarks. Which continue. Go figure.
post #97 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
almost 40 bombings, ~10 murders/executions and ~200 arsons. The facts are the facts. Deal with it.

....four airplanes, several thousand 'little Eichmanns' killed, many more burned and wounded, and billions of dollars wasted.

...someone needs to 'deal with it'.

the weekend is waning guys......

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #98 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
well, given the ratio of the two populations in the US, a few more crackpot idiots, who can't find any defense of their actions in their scriptures unless they are truly deluded, I don't find it that interesting.

I agree.
post #99 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
And I apologized. You have yet to for any of your inflamatory and insulting remarks. Which continue. Go figure.

Maybe you should stop making shit up then.

I thought you were "done."
post #100 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Maybe you should stop making shit up then.

I thought you were "done."

I'm not. I am.

( what a foul-mouth you have )
post #101 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
I'm not.

So far you've spent the entire thread making up phantoms, attributing them to me and then arguing against them. I've directly made the point, as have others. You just can't deal with it so you find refuge in your own delusions.
post #102 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
almost 40 bombings, ~10 murders/executions and ~200 arsons. The facts are the facts. Deal with it.

The only fact is that you are an apologist for Muslim Terrorists.
Quite a title to hold.
Congradulations.
post #103 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
And I apologized. You have yet to for any of your inflamatory and insulting remarks. Which continue. Go figure.

Giant is known for that. You had nothing to apologize for since he insulted you and many here far more times than you ever did.
post #104 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
The only fact is that you are an apologist for Muslim Terrorists.

So pointing out hipocrisy in the views of conservative christian americans makes me an apologist for muslim terrorists? You've lost it.
post #105 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
Speaking of delusions, you think Americans are more concerned with Christian terrorists than Muslim terrorists.

Newsflash-You're wrong

Apparently when the facts and reason shoot down your beliefs you resort to making shit up to agrue against.
post #106 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
So pointing out hipocrisy in the views of conservative christian americans makes me an apologist for muslim terrorists? You've lost it.

You're bending over backwards trying to find ways to excuse their behavior, or to compare it to acts that are nowhere near comparable.
If you can't see that, time to go to an eye doctor.

Thats all for me tonight, be back tomorrow to spank you with my verbiage.
post #107 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by steve666
You're bending over backwards trying to find ways to excuse their behavior

For whose behavior? The issue here isn't islamic terrorism, the issue is the attempt by conservative american christians to ignore and deny that christianity has directly resulted in more terrorist attacks in the US.
post #108 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Yeah, you. It wasn't until 9/11, the largest terrorist attack in history, that islamic terrorism caught up with christian terrorism for detruction in the US. Islamic terrorism has a long, long way to go before it catches up with christian terrorism for the number of attacks here, and I'm sure we all hope it never, ever comes close.

Yeah, cause Clinton fired those missiles at OBL because he wasn't a threat to the US anytime before 2001...

I've largely stayed out of this thread, mainly because giant and e-161 are rightly being taken to task for spreading nonsense and I saw no reason to pile it on.

Look guys, as much as I know you'd like to find a backdoor way to blame Christians for what happen in London, the simple fact is that even when abortion clinic bombing are factored in, there's no comparison to thugs who are indiscriminately killing random numbers of people who are on their way to work. Or partying in nightclubs. Or working in office towers.

Perhaps if these terrorists were targeting some facility they had a beef with - whether a government building, or a Christian missionary agency or something - you might have a case.

The sad part is, equating what happened in London and Madrid with domestic bombings - whether they're done by anti-abortion nuts, separatist nuts or anti-government whackos - will add a veneer of legitimacy to those events.

And that must never be allowed to happen.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
post #109 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Look guys, as much as I know you'd like to find a backdoor way to blame Christians for what happen in London, the simple fact is that even when abortion clinic bombing are factored in, there's no comparison to thugs who are indiscriminately killing random numbers of people who are on their way to work. Or partying in nightclubs. Or working in office towers.

Oh so you specifically know that these thugs were Muslims who are indiscriminately killing random numbers of people, as opposed to other thugs, you know, of a lesser kind, Christians, who actually do discriminate when they kill people [largely abortion clinics, but not necessarily], right?
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
post #110 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
And there have been non-christian cultures where homosexuals were ostracized.

Yes, and I am saying that in each culture there must be a prime-mover for the hate - a place where it originates. In our culture, that main source of that particular kind of hate is Christianity.

And Frank777 - it worries me that you think that the abortion bombings have any legitimacy. I don't think that equating the two situations diminishes the horror of either.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #111 of 119
Every example fails, frank
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
the simple fact is that even when abortion clinic bombing are factored in, there's no comparison to thugs who are indiscriminately killing random numbers of people who are on their way to work. Or partying in nightclubs. Or working in office towers.

Well, until 9/11 christian terrorism was responsible for more deaths, more destruction and more attacks in the US than islamic terrorism. Even today, christian terrorism has caused far more attacks here. Clearly your psychological response has trumped your reason.
Quote:
Perhaps if these terrorists were targeting some facility they had a beef with - whether a government building, or a Christian missionary agency or something - you might have a case.

Like what kind of facility, a symbol of western economic power? Or military power? And since when do we make the kind of distinction you came up with here? If you see a distinction, what is this significant difference you believe exists between attacks against symbolic targets (wtc, abortion clinics, pentagon) and attacks against people in subways?
Quote:
The sad part is, equating what happened in London and Madrid with domestic bombings - whether they're done by anti-abortion nuts, separatist nuts or anti-government whackos -.

You are just willy-nilly making up a set of conditions that have no relationship to reality. Since when is domestic terrorism not terrorism? Are Chechnyan terrorists no longer terrorists (who have done subway attacks just like in london and madrid)? Palestinian suicide bombers because they are domestic? Your argument is nonsensical and has no parallels to what anyone in the world thinks. It's all terrorism and it's all awful and deplorable.
Quote:
will add a veneer of legitimacy to those events

As already mentioned, it's extremely worrying that you feel there is legitimacy to some of this terrorism.

Really I don't see what's so hard to recognize about what e# says so perfectly here:
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Yes, and I am saying that in each culture there must be a prime-mover for the hate - a place where it originates. In our culture, that main source of that particular kind of hate is Christianity.
post #112 of 119
Aw, Giant, you missed this bit:

According to Frank777, terrorists are

Quote:
"thugs who are indiscriminately killing random numbers of people"

See, contrary to Christian terrorists, who have a cause and a goal and all that, these "thugs" don't have any real goal or agenda other than to just fuck things up in random places for random people. There's no telling what they might bomb next. Could be the WTC London. Could be farmer Ray's favorite fence in Pawhuska, Oklahoma. You just. never. know.

If we were to follow this line of thinking to its conclusion, we can only assume that terrorism has been going on all round us for decades, but we've just mistaken it for flat tires on the way to work, misplacing our keys, car crashes, or death by natural causes.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #113 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Well, until 9/11 christian terrorism was responsible for more deaths, more destruction

Ummm...no...

( The first WTC bombing cost around $250,000,000 in destruction. )

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
and more attacks in the US than islamic terrorism. Even today, christian terrorism has caused far more attacks here.

You continue to be cleverly careful in your wording ("in the US", "here") while conveniently ignoring attacks against U.S. citizens whether within the continental U.S. borders or not (NOTE: a U.S. embassy is U.S. soil) as if those are less important. Geography seems vitally important to your argument, as does the number of attacks (vs. aggregate property damage and loss of life).

If you ever want to be honest, you will include all of the attacks against Americans.
post #114 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
no...

Wrong link, chris. That was just the terror murders. here's the long list of anti-abortion terrorist bombings and arsons
Quote:
You continue to be cleverly careful in your wording ("in the US", "here") st

What? It's about terrorists in my country because I live in my country, just as israelis live in theirs and have to deal with terrorism in their own country. Stop trying to constantly change the conditions to put a better light on the brand of terrorism that you sympathize with.
Quote:
Geography seems vitally important to your argument,

Maybe because I LIVE HERE, as do the vast majority of americans. The United States of America is a geographic region, an nation with borders, land, lakes, mountains. It's a geographic entity and people that live in that geographic region are called americans. You are damn right geography is important.
Quote:
as does the number of attacks (vs. aggregate property damage and loss of life).

until 9/11 christian terrorism was responsible for more deaths, more destruction and more attacks in the US than islamic terrorism. Even today, christian terrorism has caused far more attacks here. Apparently by your measure palestinian suicide bombers are more just than al-qaeda because they commit many smaller attacks instead of fewer larger ones.
post #115 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Wrong link, chris. That was just the terror murders. here's the long list of anti-abortion terrorist bombings and arsons

No...I used the right link. Because I was addressing the "more deaths, more destruction" part. The first WTC bombing easily eclipsed (in terms of property destruction) ALL bombings and arsons at abortion clinics. It also killed almost as many people as the abortion doctor murders BEFOER the first one.

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Stop trying to constantly change the conditions to put a better light on the brand of terrorism

Well, not trying to put one brand in a "better light"...only trying to expose your mis-direction, lies and mis-representations designed to make one brand appear to be worse (or even the same) as another.

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
that you sympathize with.

I don't. Stop lying.

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
until 9/11 christian terrorism was responsible for more deaths, more destruction...in the US than islamic terrorism.

Stop lying. This statment has already been disproven. WTC #1 does this.
post #116 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
The first WTC bombing easily eclipsed (in terms of property destruction) ALL bombings and arsons at abortion clinics.

look at the list. Almost 40 bombings and countless arsons, more people killed and millions of dollars in damage. Stop letting your terrorist sympathies cloud your judgement.
Quote:
It also killed almost as many people as the abortion doctor murders BEFOER the first one.

And then the number of people killed by anti-abortion terrorists exceeded those of wtc93. Do you think it helps you to point out that christian terrorism became more deadly than islamic terrorism even after the first islamic terrorist attack less than 15 years ago? What a joke.
Quote:
mis-direction, lies and mis-representations designed to make one brand appear to be worse (or even the same) as another.

There is no misdirection, the simple fact you can't deal with: until 9/11 christian terrorism was responsible for more deaths, more destruction and more attacks in the US than islamic terrorism. Even today, christian terrorism has caused far more attacks here.

That's the simple fact and you've done everything you can think of to avoid it.
Quote:
WTC #1 does this.

WTC: 1 bombing, 6 deaths
anti-abortion terrorists: ~40 bombings, ~10 terrorist murders and countless arsons.

Stop playing dumb games.
post #117 of 119
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
look at the list. Almost 40 bombings and countless arsons, more people killed and millions of dollars in damage.

Look at the dates relative to your claims. Quit lying.

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Stop letting your terrorist sympathies cloud your judgement.

Quit lying.

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
And then the number of people killed by anti-abortion terrorists exceeded those of wtc93. Do you think it helps you to point out that christian terrorism became more deadly than islamic terrorism even after the first islamic terrorist attack less than 15 years ago? What a joke.

I am simply pointing out your blatant lies.

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
until 9/11 christian terrorism was responsible for more deaths, more destruction ... in the US than islamic terrorism.

Again. Stop lying. Admit you are wrong with this statement.

Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Stop playing dumb games.

I'm not. You are.
post #118 of 119
You are extreme denial.
post #119 of 119
This thread was split off from the London terror and not is extremely locked.

Honestly I think the both of you deserve temp bans for not having the self-control to observe a very reasonable request to not shit up the London thread with your inane bickering, but I'm a fascist like that.
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
This thread is locked  
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Christian Terror - Muslim Terror