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Speed of Apple Intel dev systems impress developers - Page 4

post #121 of 134
7/19/05 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally posted by THT

Other then that there isn't much else. Both AMD and Intel preannounce availability of their high end processors and they are subject to long delays in shipment. It will depend on how plays their cards.

So the UI (launching apps, window server, and filesystem) is faster or appears faster on the dev kits?

I'm fairly confident that's because of better burst memory and integer performance, not really GHz.

What matters here is that Apple will be subject to the SAME delays. They may not get ahead, but they won't get behind.

Why it's snappier doesn't matter. The fact that OS X has been criticized for being sluggish has been a problem. Hopefully that will go away. Though I thought that some of those reasons, such as the window resizing problem was because of the was the OS accesses the info it needs, e.g.. a programming problem. Supposedly gotten rid of with Quartz extreme, when it works finally.
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post #122 of 134
7/20/05 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Why it's snappier doesn't matter. The fact that OS X has been criticized for being sluggish has been a problem. Hopefully that will go away. Though I thought that some of those reasons, such as the window resizing problem was because of the was the OS accesses the info it needs, e.g.. a programming problem. Supposedly gotten rid of with Quartz extreme, when it works finally.

Q2DE. QE has been enabled ever since Jaguar.

You can enable Q2DE yourself via Quartz Debug (part of Dev Tools install). In fact, I have it enabled right now on my G5 (Dual 2 Ghz, Radeon 9600 Pro). I guess it will be nice when it's enabled by default, just because it "sounds cool." But honestly I haven't noticed any difference in drawing speeds, either in terms of real benchmarks or everyday perception. Unless something changes, it's not going to make a difference.

Of course, my G5 already feels very snappy regardless of Q2DE.
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post #123 of 134
7/20/05 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
What matters here is that Apple will be subject to the SAME delays. They may not get ahead, but they won't get behind.

Yeah, but the processor is not the only reason they were late. If you remember, Jobs was touting his companies ability to have just 'a couple of hours of inventory' while others had days of inventory.

What happens when sales rise? Those couple of hours don't last long.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #124 of 134
7/20/05 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally posted by bigmig
Q2DE. QE has been enabled ever since Jaguar.

You can enable Q2DE yourself via Quartz Debug (part of Dev Tools install). In fact, I have it enabled right now on my G5 (Dual 2 Ghz, Radeon 9600 Pro). I guess it will be nice when it's enabled by default, just because it "sounds cool." But honestly I haven't noticed any difference in drawing speeds, either in terms of real benchmarks or everyday perception. Unless something changes, it's not going to make a difference.

Of course, my G5 already feels very snappy regardless of Q2DE.

This is news to everyone. You have to turn it on yourself, and it's not stable.

By the way, if you have to go to dev tools to turn something on, it's not enabled. This is also a Tiger feature, not a Jaguar one. Quartz is older. Everyone who has tried it has found it to be buggy. I turned it off again because of that. If it works for you then that would be VERY strange.

I gave the link here before.
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post #125 of 134
7/20/05 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Yeah, but the processor is not the only reason they were late. If you remember, Jobs was touting his companies ability to have just 'a couple of hours of inventory' while others had days of inventory.

What happens when sales rise? Those couple of hours don't last long.

I think that was just hyperbole. Apple has just as much inventory as anyone else except when there are unanticipated shortages. Right now, from their quartarly, they have 4-5 weeks on most product.
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post #126 of 134
7/20/05 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally posted by bigmig
I guess it will be nice when it's enabled by default, just because it "sounds cool." But honestly I haven't noticed any difference in drawing speeds, either in terms of real benchmarks or everyday perception. Unless something changes, it's not going to make a difference.

Are you kidding me? On my dual 2.7 windows resize with zero lag.
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post #127 of 134
7/20/05 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
Are you kidding me? On my dual 2.7 windows resize with zero lag.

Which is not a result of Quartz Extreme 2D being enabled.
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post #128 of 134
7/20/05 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Except that it's inaccurate, unreliable, and never gives the same numbers twice. Interpret it how you will.

None of those problems are super-relevent; the real problem is that Xbench (correct me if I'm wrong) hasn't been recompiled for Intel.

Think about that. We're using Xbench... while the Intel has to EMULATE it.
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post #129 of 134
7/20/05 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Existence
Don't worry...buy a Yonah Powerbook instead! For most things, a dualcore Yonah PowerBook should outrun Apple's quad-PPC PowerMacs. It will be the first time in 7 years that PowerBooks are faster than PowerMacs.

If that was true, Apple would put Yonahs into their Powermacs.
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post #130 of 134
7/20/05 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
None of those problems are super-relevent; the real problem is that Xbench (correct me if I'm wrong) hasn't been recompiled for Intel.

Think about that. We're using Xbench... while the Intel has to EMULATE it.

I don't get your point. The fact that it's pretty much useless is not relevent?
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post #131 of 134
7/20/05 at 9:03pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Which is not a result of Quartz Extreme 2D being enabled.

Exactly. I never said that window resizing (and other UI tasks) was *not* fast on my G5. Just that it wasn't any faster (and doesn't take any less CPU) with Q2DE on than with it off.

I haven't noticed too many drawing bugs with it (though I don't doubt that some are lurking in there). It's just that it doesn't seem to make much difference (in terms of speed and CPU load).

In contrast, turning off QE makes compositing tasks (e.g., dragging a window around really fast) run at measurably lower framerates with substantially higher CPU load.
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post #132 of 134
7/21/05 at 3:04am
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
This is also a Tiger feature, not a Jaguar one.

Quartz 2D Extreme is indeed a Tiger feature. Quartz Extreme is a OS X feature from the jaguar era. Is that what you mean?

Quote:

Quartz is older.

Correct. Every OS X release from 10.0 (even perhaps the public beta release) uses the Quartz display model, with or without hardware acceleration.

Quote:

Everyone who has tried it has found it to be buggy. I turned it off again because of that. If it works for you then that would be VERY strange.

I guess this is the reason many people see no difference when turning it on and the feature is turned off by default.
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post #133 of 134
7/21/05 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
. This is also a Tiger feature, not a Jaguar one. Quartz is older.

You are confusing Q2DE and QE. Q2DE is new to Tiger (though not yet enabled by default). QE has been around since Jaguar. They are two different things; you might want to go read up on it. I'd recommend the Ars Technica Tiger Review article as a good starting point.
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post #134 of 134
7/21/05 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by bigmig
You are confusing Q2DE and QE. Q2DE is new to Tiger (though not yet enabled by default). QE has been around since Jaguar. They are two different things; you might want to go read up on it. I'd recommend the Ars Technica Tiger Review article as a good starting point.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I meant 2D. I know all about it.
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