Paris expo: speculation thread - Page 3

Well If Intel can get on the 64-bit dual core bandwagon sooner, I'm all for that. It just seems wierd to have to go from a 64-bit chip to a 32-bit Intel. Yonah may be more efficient, however 64 to 32 just feels like a downgrade (even if the 32-bit Yonah can compete with dual core 64-bit cpus).

How many minutes until Steve's Keynote? Wasn't it about this time last year that we learned he was battling cancer? I am hoping for something a lot more upbeat than that, but do not think I could stand one more long series of "it will be wonderful when we get to the Promised Land of Intel."

You know, you just might be right murky! With Tiger now in everybody's tank, Wouldn't that be G-R-E-A---T!?


I know it's a long flight from Tokyo to Paris, but after opening up iTunes Japan-- VERY NICE SITE, by the way-- what more could we do this year?

the iMac was forgotten in the previous post.

PB G4 (32-bit G4) [now] -> PB G4 (32 bit FS7448 1.8GHz) [oct '05] -> PB Pentium M (dualcore 32-bit x86 Yonah) [Q1 '06] -> PB Pentium M (dualcore 64-bit x86 Merom) [Q4 '06]

PM G5 (dual 64-bit G5) [now]-> PM G5 (dual dualcore 64-bit G5) [nov '05] -> PM x86 Conroe (dual dualcore 64-bit) [Q3 '06]

iMac G5 (single 64-bit G5) [now]-> PM G5 (dualcore 64-bit G5) [dec '05] -> PM x86 Conroe (dualcore 64-bit) [Q4 '06]

iBook (32-bit G4) [now] -> ibook Pentium M (32-bit singlecore Yonah) [Q2 '06] -> iBook Pentium M (single core 64-bit x86 Merom) [Q1 '07]

Mac mini (32-bit G4) [now] -> Mac mini Pentium M (32-bit singlecore Yonah) [Q2 '06] -> Mac mini Pentium M (single core 64-bit x86 Merom) [Q1 '07]

XServe G5 (dual 64-bit G5) [now]-> XServe G5 (dual dualcore 64-bit G5) [Q1 '06] -> Speedbump [Q4 '06] -> XServe x86 ?????? (multi-core 64-bit) [Q3 '07]

Beg pardon ... you earlier had the PM G5 dual-dual in Paris '05. That is SEPT 20-24, a long, long time before November (at least it seems so from now).

Let's not have any more deadlines slip, ok? (yes I know everything has an error bar of +/- 6 months and +/- processor architecture).

Waiting/wanting to spend some $$$ on Apple hardware+software,

Brian

The first post ( Paris '05 ) wasn't mine... I was suggesting other dates and CPUs than ngmapple and adding the missing pieces.

m

The PowerMac as we know it will probably transition to the woodcrest (merom family zeon). I think there is a real chance of a "PowerMac light" similar in features to the development machines though.

Here's my tentative guesses for the expo (keeping in mind that it's still over a month away):

If they emphasize portables, we'll see a PowerBook update. The 7448 is supposed to offer up to a 25% clock speed boost at the same power/thermal capabilities, so 2 GHz isn't out of the realm of possibility. Form factor change? Probably not; doing it with the Pentium M switch would make more sense. If laptops are updated at all during the expo, though, expect a Wireless Mighty Mouse (which would likely replace the Wireless Mouse altogether).

If desktops are the focus - and this is more likely, actually - I'd guess that they'd have a redesigned PowerMac. Dual-core is a significant bump, and there are enough new technologies that Apple needs to add (PCI Express, etc.) that it would be worth the move. I don't expect any Mac mini, iMac, or eMac updates at the expo itself. If they arrive, they do so 2 weeks before or after.

iPods are good candidates as well. The colour iPod mini is a prime candidate. The timing is right (just in time for the holidays!). The iPod shuffle could possibly get a screen, but Apple may actually make it part of a remote if they try to add more controls. I think Apple will be apprehensive about repeating the iPod photo fiasco by launching an iPod video at a premium: as we all know, iPod photo sales didn't take off until Apple lowered prices to where the gap between models was much smaller.

And, as always, there's the possibility of a New Apple Widget showing up, but I honestly couldn't imagine what it would be unless it was Asteroid. And that's hardly worth Jobs showing up for a keynote speech.

Here's something else to worry about. I noticed that XCode 2.1 - the version which makes both Intel and PPC binaries - isn't available for the PowerPC. Well of course, you say, that's why the developer machines are available. But think about it: if they stick with that, PPC machines will never be able to produce Intel code. I think that bodes ill for any PPC update, especially for the PowerMac.

Other than that, I agree with Commodus. The 7448 PowerBooks will be fast and cool, and have long battery life. The color iPod Mini is an easy and popular update. I'd like to see a flash-based version of the Mini, leave the Shuffle alone.

whats really going to happen is uncle steve is really going to say:
"hey kids, sorry about this, you see we really said all that stuff about moving to intel at wwdc to just, well piss off IBM, well i know it was a bit childish, but it was the only way i could see of getting them off their fat arse to do some work, so yeah, we're not really moving to intel, and here, have a G5 powerbook"

stu

Maybe uncle Steve will tell us how the porting to Intel is going since Apple should know that or at least for the big apps. Once that is complete or at least wrapping up then Apple can move. If the chips are ready is another story... But we are wrapping up '05 quickly, so is will be off to the races very soon. Intel is aligning up the chip sets for Yonah support. Now as far as the PowerMac goes that may depend more on technologies than CPU performance, like off loading current CPU tasks that would boost CPU performance, and then there is on board graphics, I never hear what Intel is doing there, but I'm sure that they want to better compete for the $$$ Anyone know about the on board graphics chips that Intel has planned?

I totally see a few demos of MAJOR apps running on Intel other than Mathmatica. I think such a demonstration is a major psychological thing to investers and developers, more so than the average users. Of course when I say major, I speak of things like even Apple's own internal apps like Final Cut Pro or Logic, for example. It would also be nice to see an alpha or beta of Photoshop or ProTools running natively on x86 too.

[EDITED] nvm

I'm running 2.1 here, on a Powerbook G4.

Funny, I DL'ed v2.1 the day after WWDC'05...

Seems to run fine on the PPC boxes here...

I'd like to think the Paris Expo was going to bring a Dual core PowerMac.

But it may be the iTunes 'Phone', a colour screen for mini iPod and a Powerbook revision to 2.0 G4.

I'm not expecting great things...until San Fran'.

Then, I'd really like to see an updated PM line...with PCI Express...and new Ati/Nividia cards...

Lemon Bon Bon

Link, please. I have looked all over the Apple site for it.

You have to register for the free developer account to download it I believe. I've been running it since about a few weeks after the WWDC myself.

I got mine from ADC.

You're right! Downloading now. ...And I must say there are a lot of nice things on that site. Don't know how I missed this 8)

On the other thread they say inventory of PMs is way down. Paris is still a long way off, though...

Steve will come out and say: "We have done better than expected.. the cancer (IBM) is gone! Introducing the new MacIntels...........

NOT!!!

I think it will be the Dual-Dual's G5's (which the rumors indicate they have been working with for a long time) hence they probably already have the boards designed. It would be sooner then later (Jan would be to late, think of the rev cycles the will produce before Intel PM's). I bet they will release a PB G5's (freescale chip)...

thoughts?

g

I've never heard of a G5 chip coming from Freescale. Might you mean a G5 from IBM or a G4 from Freescale?

you are right on the freescale... my bad, i really only focus my attention on PM threads, with so much talk of intel, ibm, motorola and freescale... like some say, I really don't care what chip manufacturer it is running just as long as it is smoking fast over the current PM line, and not another let down like in the past events. I guess the PB followers have more to complain about!

The Tiger update to the PM line was very good in terms of many things such as dual layer dvd drives, more hd space, etc, but, of course, only a boost in terms of proccessors.

What about the iPod phone?

I don't see Apple doing a 2Ghz G4 Powerbook for the simple reason that most people (wrongly) believe the CPU clock speed represents the performance of the computer. With the fastest Yonah chip being a little over 2Ghz, I don't see the G4 PB getting a 7448 faster than 1.8Ghz.

I back up my thoughts with the recent iBook and Mac Mini updates. The iBook got an absolute minimal processor update. The Mini didn't get any. Why? Because many expect the iBook and the Mini to get the entry level single core Yonah chip which is only 1.6 Ghz.

Apple need to show the people who see clock speed as the sole performance indicator of a computer that the Intel Macs are faster than the PowerPC Macs.

You may be right. I would hope Mac users are smarter then that. \

Do you guys think apple is going to update the iMacs just 5 months after the last update?

I would have to agree. They need the headroom for when the next PowerBook sports a Yonah.

I really hope they're sticking something in faster than the Yonah single cores because my experience of Pentium M laptops today is that they are about a third the speed of a G5 at media apps like ripping songs in iTunes or transcoding video at the same clock speed or thereabouts. SSE3 has to be as good as AltiVec because the current Pentium-M is terrible at vectorized code or substituting in non-SSE code. They may be faster in other applications and in particular graphics but for me, current Macs have enough of teh snappy there already.

Holding back the Powerbook and making sales even worse, then introducing something that isn't faster all round is just going to kill PowerBook sales now and later.

And the Dual-core G5, if Apple puts 2 of those in the PowerMac will rule the desktop for a year too unless people spend serious moolah on Intel's Dual Xeons.

I now don't believe the Pentium M is where Apple and Intel are heading. The performance difference with the expectations Jobs made of 15 units of performance per watt to 70 with Intel just isn't going to come from Yonah, or Merom, or Conroe or anything Intel are showing in their roadmap today. Of course Jobs could be talking BS but you'd think he'd have learned his lesson there with the 3Ghz promise.

That Inquirer article may be a work of fiction but something is brewing. It's either BS by Jobs or we're going to get surprised by Intel. If the former, I'll join the queue for a quad g5 powermac.

Late to the thread. Boring Apple-branded hardware expo, but http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25540

There is no Freescale G5, not going to happen. Freescale may improve Altivec, but unless it is seemless and needs little work to optamize then it won't amount to much, Apple will be putting their programming efforts into OS X on Intel debugging, optimizations and helping developers make the transition in as little time as possible. At best Apple will implement the 7448 as the last Freescale chip in thier line-up, and then only becouse it will require minimal work to do so. After all, along with the software work, they have to get new hardware designed that will impress the audience instead of mearly satisfying them with the same lacluster advances that have plauged the G4/5 days of the PowerPC. I would hope that Apple is looking to energise the market like they did with the transition to the PowerPC in the early days of AIM.

Of course the Ace in the hole for Apple, as I see it, is to get developers to conform more to their software specs and developers model using Apple tools and universal bionaries so that Apple is finally able to realize the promise of processor independence that the transition of OS X promised when they originally started the project. This would free Apple from one processor and one supplier in a way that the AIM alliance never did.

That's devious!

I bet that's not what they're doing though.

Well next week ought to be interesting, Intel shold be releasing some info on their coming hardware. The buzz is that more info will be release about the 64 bit future. This might apply to Yonah _ we can hope anyway.

The other buzz that is floating about is that Intel will make dramatic power drops in new hardware. Of course we have all heard about this but there appears to be meat with the potatoes here. Now the question is are the power drops relative to the Centrino family or the more mainstream hardware. If Intel can drop the power budget for the Centrino follow on by 50% that would be impressive. Especially on a dual core platform. We can only hope at this point.

Dave

It would be the smart thing, if developers will stick to it for the most part. It took too long to get wean them off of carbon, and Apple needs more flexability, they don't have Microsoft's muscle to push around the chip makers after all.

Hmm. If PowerMacs and Powerbooks are updated in Paris, I wouldn't expect any new intels intill WWDC, because, usualy the "Power" computers, as they are the pro selection, make the transition first. If they stopped calling it the G5, what kind of transition would be that for instance if the iBook got the i6 (random name) before the Powerbook did.

hi all

I think that we will see new new dual core powerpc mac with
up to 2.5 ghz w pci-E / (Two 3.5-inch Serial ATA hard drive bays
ram 1gb (6 usb 2.0) (2) 1.1 usb ) firewire (2) 400, (2) 800,
(2 )Optical drive bay. ????


i have a i mac 233hz yes it's old, but ok for now. I will buy a new
powermac G5 mac this year after Paris expo i want the new mac to
last me for 7 years from now i'm just not shore about software for
it ? When the new mactel come out , yes Apps will be intel/PPC
in one (fat) but how long will that last? or should i get a intel mac?

Atlantis
base

If you can wait. Wait for a MacTel June 2006. If a consumer Pentium M (G5-ish performance...) in an iBook/iMac/Mac Mini is your thing.

Want a PowerMac? Get a dual core one. Because 2007 is going to be a long wait. It will still run your PowerPC apps just fine. And any future Intel cpu will probably run your PPC apps in emulation just fine or faster than they do now.

You can't lose. Apple have thought this one through. X has been on Intel chips for five years.

Lemon Bon Bon

1. sorry for my bad english

2. buy an updated powermac
i haev buyed an 2x2 ghz g5 but since i have left my home and have an own flat, i have leaved it for my brother (who was going to buy an new pc - this was the only way to keep him away from this idea :-) )
so now i still have my old imac dv 400g3

i´m also waiting for an powermac update
but perhaps i will wait a bit longer (and buy an used g4 in tme meantime)
why?
becouse i want the last and fastest powerpc powermac
at one way it is an special feeling - sounds strange but it is so :-)
at the other way i do not want to have an intel mac

and last but not least - i hope to get good money for this machine in 10-20 years
perhaps it would be something special - the last big thing - the last powerpc mac *dreaming* :-)