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Apple unveils faster iBooks - Page 3

post #81 of 166
7/26/05 at 11:40am
Time to move along to a linux based intel lappy if you ask me. I've waited long time for Apple to get real with respect to the portables AND THE REQUIREEMNTS OF OS/X and they haven't come through. What makes it even worst is that it would have been so easy for them. I mean they could have switched to a new generation video chip with no problems and still had a chip that was realtively old.

Nope this is clearly an issue where Apple is telling users that they don't give a damn about them. Hear is our crap no eat it. Well this guy isn't about to and I would suggest that no one else do also.

Thanks
Dave

Quote:
Originally posted by sandau
i had an iBook in my cart and waited for this announcement in case it had a better screen and GPU but it doesn't. And only VGA out? pooo.

Yes, its a better deal today than yesterday with some of the options built in but no way in hades am I going to buy an iBook with 1024x768 resolution. Yuck. Time to move along. I'll have to look at the next revision.
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post #82 of 166
7/26/05 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69

In any event a real performance boost to the ibooks would not have been objectionable at this point maybe even advantageous given the school buying is about to start.
Dave

This school buying season thing is made up by analysists.

Most school systems purchase throughout the year and if they do have a set period of purchase time usually place orders before the close of the school year in may/june with delivery of systems sometime in august/september.
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post #83 of 166
7/26/05 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally posted by baranovich
I agree completely, what are they thinking???

You don't know?

How do you think they plan on making the Mactel line up look so good?
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post #84 of 166
7/26/05 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Marsh
Basically, they threw everything in that they could for this final version of the G4 iBook, just as they did for the G4 PowerBook earlier.

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post #85 of 166
7/26/05 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally posted by wizard69
The performance difference between the ibook and the powerBook means nothing with respect to sales in the coming months. So why not a decent ibook when the intel Powerbooks are just around the corner?

Dave, I think you are too quick to draw conclusions about when the Intel transition will actually start. I believe, and the recent Freescale announcement supports this, that Apple will update the Powerbooks in this autumn's Apple expo with the new 7448 chip, or a little there after. Until then, the iBook cannot get better than the Powerbook is right now. It is as simple as that.
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post #86 of 166
7/26/05 at 12:03pm
LOL, the people bitching about the updates have a serious weed up their asses. It's exactly what I was expecting. Boy am I glad I bought my powerbook when I did.
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #87 of 166
7/26/05 at 12:03pm
I'm buying an iBook... in the Spring, just like I've planned to do for almost a year now right before my wife loses her student discount. I should be just in time for an Intel-based iBook.
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NOTICE: While every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information supplied herein, fahlman cannot be held responsible for any errors or omissions. Unless otherwise indicated,...
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post #88 of 166
7/26/05 at 12:28pm
Man... WHERE THE HECK IS THE G5 LAPTOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Screw iBooks. Screw powerbook. Gimmie a darn G5 laptop!!!!!!
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post #89 of 166
7/26/05 at 12:59pm
no Widescreen?????
What about Steve Jobs Comment at the beginning of the Year, that 2005 would be the year of HD!
As far as I know 1024x768 is not HD!
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post #90 of 166
7/26/05 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by oberpongo
no Widescreen?????
What about Steve Jobs Comment at the beginning of the Year, that 2005 would be the year of HD!
As far as I know 1024x768 is not HD!

It depends on how close you are to the display .
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post #91 of 166
7/26/05 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally posted by BEatMaKeR
Man... WHERE THE HECK IS THE G5 LAPTOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Screw iBooks. Screw powerbook. Gimmie a darn G5 laptop!!!!!!

Oh boy, give it a rest...

Even if Apple did introduce a dual-core G5 notebook with 24 hour battery life, widescreen 1920x1080 pixel screen, etc. in a slim, 1 lb package selling for $25, our friends on this forum would still find fault in it.
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post #92 of 166
7/26/05 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally posted by quagmire
4) This was an expected update to the ibook. I never expected a widescreen ibook. I expected 512 MB ram standard. What I didn't expect was it being built in.

5)The ibooks are in a way better then the 12" Powerbook. 512 MB ram built in in ibook vs 256 for 12" powerbook. Once again with ram, ibook max 1.5 GB 12" Powerbook 1.25 GB max.

I didn't catch that at first- figured they just included a 256MB DIMM standard. This is a very cool stealth feature. You can now upgrade yourself to a full Gig of RAM for 50 bucks, which rocks. A small thing, but it alleviates one of the major design compromises of the iBook (and 12" PB).

I let the rumors get my hopes up a bit about a 13" widescreen, but we all should know better. Apple redesigns their laptops about every three years, and it just doesn't make any sense for them to do a major redesign right before the Intel switch, when they'll have to do a redesign anyway. Generating a little excitement over a new form factor (and/or colors) will also help ease anxiety over the switch. I just helped my cousin order a Dell 700M, with the 12" 1280x800 screen, and I fully expect a form factor like that to be the new iBook. But it just doesn't make any sense to introduce that now. I can only hope they'll have the IntelBooks ready for January, rather than waiting until next summer.
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post #93 of 166
7/26/05 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally posted by ibook911
Depends what you want to do, for me, yes. The iBook simply does not meet my needs. I need to use my big external Apple cinema display, and you cannot do that with the iBook.

You know that display spanning is only disabled in firmware, and there's a one-click program that will enable it? Works great. Yeah, Apple should enable it themselves, and yeah, it's an unsupported hack, but if spanning is your major concern it's surely not worth spending an extra $500 (minimum) on a Powerbook just for a little peace of mind?
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post #94 of 166
7/26/05 at 1:52pm
The Apple Cinema display doesn't have an analog input, so it cannot work with an iBook regardless. I thought this is why the Powerbooks have DVI out?
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post #95 of 166
7/26/05 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Bronxite
This school buying season thing is made up by analysists.

Most school systems purchase throughout the year and if they do have a set period of purchase time usually place orders before the close of the school year in may/june with delivery of systems sometime in august/september.

Actually, it's not. Most school systems plan for next year during the end of the last school year. during the summer they often upgrade or replace labs, etc.

Here in NYC, half of the years computers are purchased during the summer. The other half is purchased during the rest of the entire year.

Even when machines are ordered during the last semester, they aren't delivered until the summer, and therefore aren't booked until that period becuse that's when they are paid for.
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post #96 of 166
7/26/05 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally posted by quagmire
Why are people still stuck in ibook G3 days? I guess more people live in the past then I thought. Well the iMac G5's with problems were Rev a's. Rev A's have bugs! iBook G4's don't suffer from the logic board problem.

Maybe its because I, and many people, still have a G3 iBook. You know, we believed all you who said Macs had a lower TCO because you could use them longer then comparable PCs. Ha! If the screen doesn't go out first, you mean!

As for the iMacs, people with Rev B's are having the same problems (keep in mind the Rev B's just came out, and it takes some of these issues time to reveal themselves).

Oh, and I forgot about the mini's dim video problems.

And all the problems people have had with the powerbooks (damn, there goes another hinge!).

I guess you're fine with Apple slapping together a computer, and basically let people do the long-term testing of it to see where all the problems are so they can finally fix it in the Rev C or D machines. Me, I would kind of hope that the Rev A could actually stand up to the stress of being kept on for more than 8 hours at a time. But maybe I expect too much. Apple has to worry about looks, not functionality or quality. I mean, when I was looking for a tower, I stupidly assumed that one that was bigger then any other computer out there would have the most internal storage space, and it turns out it has the least. But, hey, that cheese grater sure looks good!
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post #97 of 166
7/26/05 at 2:27pm
Last Powerbook updates:
+11% in 9 months (1.67 vs. 1.5Ghz - Apr04 to Jan05)
+13% in 8 months (1.5 vs. 1.33Ghz - Sep03 to Apr04)
+33% in 10 months (1.33 vs. 1Ghz - Nov02 to Sep03)

Main Pentium-M (Centrino) updates:
+8% in 9 months (2.26 vs. 2.1Ghz - Oct04 to Jul05)
+5% in 5 months (2.1 vs. 2Ghz - May04 to Oct04)
+18% in 11 months (2 vs. 1.7Ghz - Jun03 to May04)
+6% in 3 months (1.7 vs. 1.6Ghz - Mar03 to Jun03)

or summarized:
G4: +67% in 27 months
P-M: +41% in 28 months

Sure, the Pentium-M has a much faster bus and noticeably more L2 cache, but its progress is not better (in fact even worse) than that of the G4, but nobody is blaiming Intel or Dell for their lackluster updates.

(o.k. the P-M bus speed has increased by 33%, the G4 bus only by 26%, and doubling of the L2 cache, which both processors got, was discounted with the G4 by the removal of the L3 cache, but adding the 7448 to the game, the G4 would be ahead on these points as well)
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post #98 of 166
7/26/05 at 2:38pm
Just a quick point to those commenting on the price increase in Europe. I personally think this is related to the stronger $, and Apple felt now was the best time to adjust their prices.
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post #99 of 166
7/26/05 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally posted by BEatMaKeR

Screw iBooks. Screw powerbook. Gimmie a darn G5 laptop!!!!!!

Apparently you missed the WWDC 2005 keynote. You could see there the G5 Powerbook that Apple... failed to deliver .
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post #100 of 166
7/26/05 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally posted by your_ad_here
Just a quick point to those commenting on the price increase in Europe. I personally think this is related to the stronger $, and Apple felt now was the best time to adjust their prices.

Exactly, it surprises me always why people keep ignoring the obvious things. Just complaining, without even thinking for one second.
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post #101 of 166
7/26/05 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Actually, it's not. Most school systems plan for next year during the end of the last school year. during the summer they often upgrade or replace labs, etc.

Here in NYC, half of the years computers are purchased during the summer. The other half is purchased during the rest of the entire year.

Even when machines are ordered during the last semester, they aren't delivered until the summer, and therefore aren't booked until that period becuse that's when they are paid for.


As someone who works in the NYC Department of Education and is in charge of all computer purchases for my school I can assure you that you are indeed wrong.
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post #102 of 166
7/26/05 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Towel
You know that display spanning is only disabled in firmware, and there's a one-click program that will enable it? Works great. Yeah, Apple should enable it themselves, and yeah, it's an unsupported hack, but if spanning is your major concern it's surely not worth spending an extra $500 (minimum) on a Powerbook just for a little peace of mind?

If you are a pro, then it could very well be a feature worth paying for, will the hack void the warrenty or applecare?
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #103 of 166
7/26/05 at 4:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by noirdesir

Sure, the Pentium-M has a much faster bus and noticeably more L2 cache, but its progress is not better (in fact even worse) than that of the G4, but nobody is blaiming Intel or Dell for their lackluster updates.

busses, compilers, instruciton sets, i/o bus speed, external clock speed (basicly the speed at which the RAM talks to the CPU)there is a LOT more to the Pentium M (or any chip) than the core internal clockspeed.
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post #104 of 166
7/26/05 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally posted by mikef
Oh boy, give it a rest...

Even if Apple did introduce a dual-core G5 notebook with 24 hour battery life, widescreen 1920x1080 pixel screen, etc. in a slim, 1 lb package selling for $25, our friends on this forum would still find fault in it.

lol this is true. i happen to like the ibook updates. for a so called apple fan site there is alot of negative comments. the people who want to go to feature less (and incompatible with most media software) linux boxs or crappy windows xp laptops should go plague the appropriate forums.
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post #105 of 166
7/26/05 at 5:47pm
I love my iBook 12" with the G4 1.2Ghz processor, 256MB of RAM, ATI Radeon 9200 32MB video card, 60GB hard drive, Bluetooth, Airport Extreme, Combo Drive, which I bought for $1411 plus tax Canadian Dollars and have not regretted it a single bit, even knowing that if I had waited 19 days to get the new revision I could've got it for $1314 CAD, but that would've included a slightly faster processor, 512MB of RAM (with one free slot), the ATI Radeon 9550 which SUPPORTS COREIMAGE and is overall 20-30% faster than the 9200, has Bluetooth 2.0+EDR, scrollpad, yadda yadda. For average consumers like myself it's a huge thing, and although yes I have been tempted to dump my current iBook on my friend to get the newer faster iBook, the thing is this is my first Mac and it does have some sentimental value to it, and it does everything I personally need to do, surf the net, write on these BBSes, write e-mail, play Unreal and Simcity, use GarageBand and iMovie, actually use a computer off the battery for more than four hours, the list could go on. I just thought I'd put that into some perspective from the 90% of people who just needs a computer to make their life easier and nothing more. Why get a V8 Armada or Expedition when a 4-banger Nissan X-Trail or Ford Escape would do?
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post #106 of 166
7/26/05 at 8:47pm
ok, i've had some time to let the ibook update sink in. Please disregard my previous comments.

For $999, it's a pretty good deal. I was most frustrated by the video card and resolution but after looking at the following upgrades compared to yesterday:

Slight bump - no comment
512mb standard soldered in - 1.5gb possible! Nice.
Scrolling trackpad (already had a hack, but this is nice)
9550 video card. ok its a stupid 32mb but it IS Core Image capable (ATi says so). that's pretty good.
Bluetooth 2.0 standard - nice
Drop whatever - bleh, so what, but a bonus

nothing new but fantastic value
OS X Tiger - installed - yeah!
iLife 05 - yeah!

For the price, its a good deal, I'd still recommend it. I don't know if I'll buy it (putting cash into a gaming rig with 7800 card) but I still might.

Minor bump, better value. Sure beats yesterday by a LOT.
:-D * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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post #107 of 166
7/26/05 at 8:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by noirdesir
Exactly, it surprises me always why people keep ignoring the obvious things. Just complaining, without even thinking for one second.

Um, except that the Euro is strong right now, not the Dollar. 1,059 Euro = 1,271.54 Dollars. (Thanks, Dashboard!)
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post #108 of 166
7/26/05 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Bronxite
This school buying season thing is made up by analysists.

Most school systems purchase throughout the year and if they do have a set period of purchase time usually place orders before the close of the school year in may/june with delivery of systems sometime in august/september.

Sorry, but while you have a point regarding institutional orders (the business faculty at my uni is finally upgrading one of our larger computer labs as I write this), you are overlooking that the "back to school season" is very real.

Over the next month or so you have waives of students, ranging from kindergarten thru university, getting ready to head back to school in September. New computers are part of the overall shopping list in many cases. That said, it isn't nearly as significant as the Christmas holiday season.
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post #109 of 166
7/26/05 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Reid
Um, except that the Euro is strong right now, not the Dollar. 1,059 Euro = 1,271.54 Dollars. (Thanks, Dashboard!)

You need to look at a historical graph, not a single quote, the Euro has been weakening over the past few months vs. the US dollar. USD/EUR has appreciated by roughly 13% since the beginning of 2005.
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post #110 of 166
7/26/05 at 11:29pm
These updates maintain cost competitiveness without any major surprises. $250-300 extra dollars worth of capability ain't bad. I agree with alot of the previous posters on this point...why wait so long? You almost get the feeling that they were aiming higher but something happened...

I'm surprised that no one has noticed the whopping() 9Mhz increase in the FSB on the 14 inch model as well as a 30 day trial of iWorks. Alternately idiosyncratic and a sad reflection of reality.
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post #111 of 166
7/26/05 at 11:41pm
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
Such a random video card and bus speed...

re: bus speed, apple just up to its usual stuff. essentially its a g4 cpu 10x multiplied of the buss speed.

bus speed 133mhz x 10 = 1.33ghz

bus speed 142mhz x 10 = 1.42ghz
(probably an overclocked motherboard version of the 133mhz boards for the 12")

note that all new mac minis are showing 167mhz bus speed.

DISCLAIMER
i've just been teaching a flash class so my mind is kind of jumbled up and i could just totally be talking out my ass. feel free to slap me around. it will be nicer if someone could explain apple's clock speed and bus multiplying stuff. like on the powerbook 1.5ghz with 167mhz system bus, does that mean that it is a 9X multiplier of the 167bus to get 1.5 ghz? 10X multiplier means yes 167mhz x 10 = 1.67ghz on the 17" and 15" supah drive
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post #112 of 166
7/27/05 at 12:27am
No wakkas, mate...I'm not going to take you to task.

It just strikes me as weird that Apple would bother with such an incremental improvement. It is also the first time that the 142Mhz FSB speed has ever (looking over my shoulder) been used in any Apple product.

Why start now? Have they only now, 5 years too late, realised that FSB speed is an issue with overall system performance?

The mind boggles...

Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
re: bus speed, apple just up to its usual stuff. essentially its a g4 cpu 10x multiplied of the buss speed.

bus speed 133mhz x 10 = 1.33ghz

bus speed 142mhz x 10 = 1.42ghz
(probably an overclocked motherboard version of the 133mhz boards for the 12")

note that all new mac minis are showing 167mhz bus speed.

DISCLAIMER
i've just been teaching a flash class so my mind is kind of jumbled up and i could just totally be talking out my ass. feel free to slap me around. it will be nicer if someone could explain apple's clock speed and bus multiplying stuff. like on the powerbook 1.5ghz with 167mhz system bus, does that mean that it is a 9X multiplier of the 167bus to get 1.5 ghz? 10X multiplier means yes 167mhz x 10 = 1.67ghz on the 17" and 15" supah drive
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dance when we long to move the stars to
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post #113 of 166
7/27/05 at 2:32am
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
busses, compilers, instruciton sets, i/o bus speed, external clock speed (basicly the speed at which the RAM talks to the CPU)there is a LOT more to the Pentium M (or any chip) than the core internal clockspeed.

Sure, but until yesterdays announcement the P-M bus was 'stuck' at 400Mhz, since March 2003 to be precise. Whether the compilers for the P-M or the G4 have improved more, is hard to say, but probably the P-M got more attention in the developer community.

Don't get me wrong, the P-M is a noticeably higher performing chip than the G4 but it has not progressed better than it.

Already at the start of the P-M, the G4 was behind and it has stayed behind, but it has not fallen back further. It simply took a while for everybody, Mac and PC-users, to realise how good the P-M is. This created the impression that Apple is falling back further, in fact they were in the same corner the day the a decent number of P-M based laptops were available.
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post #114 of 166
7/27/05 at 6:58am
Quote:
(o.k. the P-M bus speed has increased by 33%, the G4 bus only by 26%, and doubling of the L2 cache, which both processors got, was discounted with the G4 by the removal of the L3 cache, but adding the 7448 to the game, the G4 would be ahead on these points as well) [/B]

Hey you've said it. But wait a minute there is not 7448 (in a box yet!)! that is the problem! It doesn'y look like the will be either.
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post #115 of 166
7/27/05 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally posted by mikef
The Apple Cinema display doesn't have an analog input, so it cannot work with an iBook regardless. I thought this is why the Powerbooks have DVI out?

umm.. good point. iBook spanning hack works nice with VGA lcd monitors... for tha DVI that be powerBook line.
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post #116 of 166
7/27/05 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally posted by OfficerDigby
But wait a minute there is not 7448! that is the problem! It doesn'y look like the wil be either.

Sorry, this chip exists. This is the fact sheet of the MPC7448, which is already available in limited quantities. Freescale announced some weeks ago that mass production starts this October. That is, in time for the next Powerbook update.
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post #117 of 166
7/27/05 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally posted by Chagi
You need to look at a historical graph, not a single quote, the Euro has been weakening over the past few months vs. the US dollar. USD/EUR has appreciated by roughly 13% since the beginning of 2005.

Fine... be right. I was comparing in my mind to a longer history, where the trend has been downward (Dollar is 30% weaker vs. the Euro than this time in 2001). Your comparison makes more sense in this context, though, because the Dollar has gained ground since the last round of iBooks were introduced.
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post #118 of 166
7/28/05 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
Hold your horses here. For us europeans, the iBook 12" is 50 euros more expensive now, at 1059 euros (around 1270 dollars).


This is certainly an acceptable update, but not for congratulations.

Please, not again. DON'T QUOTE PRICES WITH SALES TAX.

The iBook 12" is EUR 887 - USD 1,068 - in Germany, EUR 877 - USD 1,056 - in France and other Euro countries.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #119 of 166
7/28/05 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally posted by JLL
Please, not again. DON'T QUOTE PRICES WITH SALES TAX.

The iBook 12" is EUR 887 - USD 1,068 - in Germany, EUR 877 - USD 1,056 - in France and other Euro countries.

Correct, but it does not change the fact that the iBook in Europe is around 50 euros more expensive than before.
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post #120 of 166
7/28/05 at 7:32am
The new FreeScale MPC7448 looks pretty interesting but unless its introduced at 2 GHz I think Ill skip the next PowerBooks update. The G4 is starting to feel VERY poky to me now, I find myself drawn to the IBM 43P (with Solaris 10) more and more. According to the FreeScale spec sheet for the 7448, it is pin compatible with the older 7447. Hmmm, anybody want to try this upgrade?
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