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post #81 of 87
Ok, now I'm going to go back and verify the rest of this. Because everything I got was from Sony's original press release earlier this year. If there is some discrepency I'll find it and if so I appologize. However, you should know Freescale, or what used to be Motorola's semiconductor division, plays a quintessential role in the development of the Cell. The partnership is formed by Sony, IBM, and Freescale (formerly Motorola semiconductor).

So why I could be wrong about some of this, Freescales involvement is not one of the facts I am wrong about. So not for nothing the nitpick at the end was sort of a bad thing to nitpick about. If you re-read any of the original pre-releases you would see.

Cell is a future PPC architecture developed by the alliance of Sony, IBM, and Freescale. All of this is just meant to enlighten.

Arttwist


Quote:
Originally posted by Electric Monk
There was some speculation a long time ago that the PS3 might be using 2 or more Cells linked together. That was based purely on estimates from patent applications though.

Sony has said that the PS3 will contain 1 Cell, the Cell in this case being defined as one PPE, and 8 SPEs (with one disabled to improve yields). Later uses of the Cell will probably vary the amounts of SPEs - and maybe PPEs - as regards their needs for HDTV, servers, and so forth.

Similarly the Xbox360 is using a 3 PPE design, Xeon. Which is not Cell (having none of the software, memory, bandwidth, or SPE elements that it has) but does use the same IBM designed processor, albeit with some custom modifications.

Both the Xbox360's and the PS3's PPE's will be running at 3.2 GHz which is roughly comparable on out-of-order-code to a G4 (NOT a G4+ like current G4s) at 1.6 GHz.

At least one company is building a Cell server, although I don't know offhand how many Cells they may or may not be using in each server. I do know that linking together multiple Cells, beyond 4 I believe, requires more work then originally envisioned.


And just to nitpick a little arttwist55, Freescale doesn't have anything to do with the Cell. Toshiba on the other hand...


All this merely to back up you up of course, melgross.
post #82 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by arttwist55
Ok, now I'm going to go back and verify the rest of this. Because everything I got was from Sony's original press release earlier this year. If there is some discrepency I'll find it and if so I appologize. However, you should know Freescale, or what used to be Motorola's semiconductor division, plays a quintessential role in the development of the Cell. The partnership is formed by Sony, IBM, and Freescale (formerly Motorola semiconductor).

So why I could be wrong about some of this, Freescales involvement is not one of the facts I am wrong about. So not for nothing the nitpick at the end was sort of a bad thing to nitpick about. If you re-read any of the original pre-releases you would see.

Cell is a future PPC architecture developed by the alliance of Sony, IBM, and Freescale. All of this is just meant to enlighten.

Arttwist

That's interesting. I haven't heard the slightest thing about Freescales involvement. It's been IBM, Sony, and Toshiba.

Where did you find that?
post #83 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by arttwist55
However, you should know Freescale, or what used to be Motorola's semiconductor division, plays a quintessential role in the development of the Cell. The partnership is formed by Sony, IBM, and Freescale (formerly Motorola semiconductor).

So why I could be wrong about some of this, Freescales involvement is not one of the facts I am wrong about. So not for nothing the nitpick at the end was sort of a bad thing to nitpick about. If you re-read any of the original pre-releases you would see.

Cell is a future PPC architecture developed by the alliance of Sony, IBM, and Freescale. All of this is just meant to enlighten.

Arttwist

From: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...7/ai_n15615420

Introduction: History of the project

Initial discussion on the collaborative effort to develop Cell began with support from CEOs from the Sony and IBM companies: Sony as a content provider and IBM as a leading-edge technology and server company. Collaboration was initiated among SCEI (Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated), IBM, for microprocessor development, and Toshiba, as a development and high-volume manufacturing technology partner.

After several months of architectural discussion and contract negotiations, the STI (SCEI-Toshiba-IBM) Design Center was formally opened in Austin, Texas, on March 9, 2001. The STI Design Center represented a joint investment in design of about $400,000,000. Separate joint collaborations were also set in place for process technology development.

----

Looks like Sony, Toshiba, and IBM to me. There's a million more articles on it, but they've all talked about the STI alliance.

A moderate in depth google finds Freescale mentioned with STI only when they're also talking about Apple's chip suppliers; or when Freescale and IBM are presenting papers on (different) chip stuff at some conference.

Sony designed and Toshiba made the PS2's Emotion Engine and they probably brought in IBM for their design team for the Cell, given IBM's experience at computer done custom chip work.

Now Freescale is the one of the main producers of PowerPC chips, but they don't make the Cell or AFAIT had any hand in designing it. Here's the original release from 2001:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/03..._toshiba_team/
Like other Cell information it doesn't mention Feescale.

Currently IBM is producing Cell's at Fishkill, as is Sony and their Nagasaki fab. Toshiba is probably making Cell at their Oita fab as well. I don't know how much is being made at 90nm, but I suspect it doesn't become remotely economical until 65nm given the Cell's large size even with the 300mm wafers they're using. The fact that they disable a SPE to improve yields is telling in that regard.



In case you haven't noticed, I like the Cell I think that Apple was probably correct from a risk standpoint not to adapt it, but it's certainly very interesting technology. However if Freescale was involved I'd be glad to hear it, I haven't heard anything about it.


This is also interesting...
IBM, AMD, Chartered, Infineon, Samsung, Sony, and Toshiba are expected to be part of the fab announcement. Also part of the announcement, chip-equipment vendor ASML Holding NV of the Netherlands is setting up a lithography R&D center in New York.

In his state-of-the-state address, Gov. Pataki indicated that IBM and six other chip makers would partner -- or be associated -- with the new fab. The 300-mm plant is an extension or annex of IBM's existing 300-mm facility in East Fishkill, N.Y.

From: http://informationweek.desktoppipeli...iness/56900805
post #84 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by Electric Monk
From: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...7/ai_n15615420

Introduction: History of the project

Initial discussion on the collaborative effort to develop Cell began with support from CEOs from the Sony and IBM companies: Sony as a content provider and IBM as a leading-edge technology and server company. Collaboration was initiated among SCEI (Sony Computer Entertainment Incorporated), IBM, for microprocessor development, and Toshiba, as a development and high-volume manufacturing technology partner.

After several months of architectural discussion and contract negotiations, the STI (SCEI-Toshiba-IBM) Design Center was formally opened in Austin, Texas, on March 9, 2001. The STI Design Center represented a joint investment in design of about $400,000,000. Separate joint collaborations were also set in place for process technology development.

----

Looks like Sony, Toshiba, and IBM to me. There's a million more articles on it, but they've all talked about the STI alliance.

A moderate in depth google finds Freescale mentioned with STI only when they're also talking about Apple's chip suppliers; or when Freescale and IBM are presenting papers on (different) chip stuff at some conference.

Sony designed and Toshiba made the PS2's Emotion Engine and they probably brought in IBM for their design team for the Cell, given IBM's experience at computer done custom chip work.

Now Freescale is the one of the main producers of PowerPC chips, but they don't make the Cell or AFAIT had any hand in designing it. Here's the original release from 2001:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/03..._toshiba_team/
Like other Cell information it doesn't mention Feescale.

Currently IBM is producing Cell's at Fishkill, as is Sony and their Nagasaki fab. Toshiba is probably making Cell at their Oita fab as well. I don't know how much is being made at 90nm, but I suspect it doesn't become remotely economical until 65nm given the Cell's large size even with the 300mm wafers they're using. The fact that they disable a SPE to improve yields is telling in that regard.



In case you haven't noticed, I like the Cell I think that Apple was probably correct from a risk standpoint not to adapt it, but it's certainly very interesting technology. However if Freescale was involved I'd be glad to hear it, I haven't heard anything about it.


This is also interesting...
IBM, AMD, Chartered, Infineon, Samsung, Sony, and Toshiba are expected to be part of the fab announcement. Also part of the announcement, chip-equipment vendor ASML Holding NV of the Netherlands is setting up a lithography R&D center in New York.

In his state-of-the-state address, Gov. Pataki indicated that IBM and six other chip makers would partner -- or be associated -- with the new fab. The 300-mm plant is an extension or annex of IBM's existing 300-mm facility in East Fishkill, N.Y.

From: http://informationweek.desktoppipeli...iness/56900805

Well, that was certainly in a great deal more depth than I was willing to take it!
post #85 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by arttwist55
Cell is a future PPC architecture developed by the alliance of Sony, IBM, and Freescale. All of this is just meant to enlighten.

Cell is NOT a PPC chip, not even a PPC-like chip like the POWER chips from IBM...
And Freescale has nothing to do with it!
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post #86 of 87
STI Alliance? Sounds like something for people with herpes.
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post #87 of 87
Quote:
Originally posted by The One to Rescue
Cell is NOT a PPC chip, not even a PPC-like chip like the POWER chips from IBM...
And Freescale has nothing to do with it!

Well you're right about the Freescale part. But yes, Cell uses the PowerPC ISA and as such can be considered a PPC chip. And POWER is just an IBM brand name for their server level PowerPC chips.

To wit, PowerPC, POWER4, POWER5, POWER6, Cell, G4+ (aka the 744x), G5 (aka the 970), etc... all use the PowerPC ISA regardless of how the actual chip is designed. Just like Intel's Core Duo uses the decades old x86 ISA despite being as modern a chip (minus the FSB) as any other.

The design of the chip is separate from the ISA it uses.
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