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Moving south

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
After living in the north east for almost 30 years (my whole life), my family and I are moving to one of the mid-atlantic states, most likely North Carolina. The reasons are many. New England's hectic lifestyle has grown weary on me, the cost of living is soaring, I have a new born daughter and some debt that I need to take care of.

Don't get me wrong, I love the NY metro area. But it's insanely expensive to live up here. All my friends have moved or are moving because of that singular reason. I still have tons of family in Connecticut, New York and Massachusetts and living in the Carolinas makes a nice 9-10 hour drive almost bearable.

We can sell our house for enough money to pay for a comparible home in NC outright. The only thing I need to worry about is finding a job though. I'm in IT (marketing, publishing, Mac/PC). I was wondering if anyone from the Carolinas or near them had any advice for me and my family about nice locations to live, work, etc. I'm following up on some leads for jobs in the Raleigh and Greenville area.

Any help or advice would be apreciated! Thanks.
post #2 of 41
Do you need a primer on Southern culture?
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post #3 of 41
I lived in Spartenburg S.C about 6 years back (UK now) and greenville back then was the place to be, But most people can be in your face southern And watch out for snakes and big bad ass spiders
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post #4 of 41
Thread Starter 
I didn't realize NC was so southern. Should a yankee like me be worried?

I'm not worried about going down south culture wise, as long as there are still places to get good sushi.
post #5 of 41
Raleigh shouldn't be too bad for jobs. Just don't get stuck out in sticks.
post #6 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
I'm not worried about going down south culture wise, as long as there are still places to get good sushi.

I like Marie's Bait and Tackle out on state highway 16.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #7 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I like Marie's Bait and Tackle out on state highway 16.

The smelt rolls are particularly good. Also, there's a nightcrawler/rhubarb thing I've been meaning to try.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #8 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
I'm in IT (marketing, publishing, Mac/PC). I was wondering if anyone from the Carolinas or near them had any advice for me and my family about nice locations to live, work, etc. I'm following up on some leads for jobs in the Raleigh and Greenville area.

The job market is pretty good for IT - we just had big layoffs at Nortel a month ago, and almost everyone has jobs again (I am taking a year off). The salaries have dropped quite a bit due to all the layoffs over the last 5 years though, it used to be pretty easy to get a $100K+ job, now most programming jobs are $65K or so, unless you have specific skills that are needed right now by somebody.

The housing market is very strong - I bought my custom architect built house in 1993 for $100/sq foot, and the same house now would be $200/sq foot. They are putting in 60 houses right beside me (3500 sq feet on half an acre is $450K, 2500 sq feet is $350K, which is a more typical price).

I like Chapel Hill and Durham a whole lot better than Raleigh. Usually you can commute to jobs in RTP a lot easier from Chapel Hill than from Raleigh - Raleigh has some serious traffic jams. Raleigh is closer to the beach, Chapel Hill is closer to the mountains.

One option is to build a house on a big property to the east of Pittsboro (commute to Raleigh about 40 minutes) and then let the town of Apex roll over you and make you a millionaire.

I don't really like Apex or Cary - you just seem to get a lot better quality of life in Chapel Hill, Pittsboro, Bynum, (parts of) Durham, Hillsborough and Carrboro. If you are a hippy vegan type, then Carrboro is the place to live (preferably within walking distance of Weaver Street Market). Cary is like the stepford wives village - lots of keeping up with the joneses, kind of cookie cutter republican SUV territory.

If you can get property bordering the Eno river state park, that would be a pretty cool place to live - you would be beside tons of walking trails on the river (I kind of wish that I had moved there originally, but moving is too much trouble). Just south of southpoint mall is another good area, you can get a bunch of land in Chatham county and it is convienient to a lot of good stuff.

Shameless plug for my friend the real estate agent (a very good one):

www.tarheelhomes.com

PS - there are also tons of older brick homes (1200-1500 sq foot range) for $120K, if you want to spend less on a house.
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post #9 of 41
Just be ready to be called a "Damn Yankee"!

When my parents moved to Chapel Hill from Poughkeepsie, (my Dad went from IBM to CISCO) my Dad was told that a "Yankee" was someone from the North that came down to visit, a "Damn Yankee" is someone who moves South!

Chapel Hill seems like a nice area when I visit my parents. The Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area has been growing like crazy though. It seems like every time we go to visit, there is a new housing development or apartments going up. The traffic can be plenty crazy though, especially on the I-40 beltway around Raleigh at rush hour. It feels just like home to us NYers!

To start you acclimatization, here is a primer on the Souther lifestyle:

Quote:
Issued by the Southern Tourism Bureau to ALL visiting
Northerners, Northeasterners, North westerners,
Westerners and Southwestern Urbanites

1) Don't order filet mignon or pasta primavera at
Waffle House. It's just a diner. They serve breakfast
24 hours a day. Let them cook something they know. If
you confuse them, they'll kick your ass

2) Don't laugh at our Southern names (Merleen, Luther,
Tammy Lynn, Inez, Billy Joe, Sissy, Clovis, etc.) or
we will just HAVE to kick your ass

3) Don't order a bottle of pop or a can of soda down
here. Down here it's called Coke. Nobody gives a
flying rat's ass whether it's Pepsi, RC, Dr. Pepper,
7-Up or whatever... it's still a Coke. Accept it.
Doing otherwise can lead to an ass kicking.

4) We know our heritage. Most of us are more literate
than you (e.g. Welty, Williams, Faulkner). We are also
better educated and generally a lot nicer. Don't refer
to us as a bunch of hillbillies or we'll kick your
ass.

5) We have plenty of business sense (e.g., Fred Smith
of Fed Ex, Sam Walton, Turner Broadcasting, MCI
WorldCom, MTV, Netscape). Naturally, we do, sometimes,
have small lapses in judgment (e.g. John Edwards, Al
Gore, Bill Clinton, David Duke). We don't care if you
think we are dumb. We are not dumb enough to let
someone move to our state in order to run for the
Senate. If someone tried to do that, we would kick
his/her ass.

6) Don't laugh at our Civil War monuments. If Lee had
listened to Longstreet and flanked Meade at Gettysburg
instead of sending Pickett up the middle, you'd be
paying taxes to Richmond instead of Washington. If you
visit Stone Mountain and complain about the carving,
we'll kick your ass.

7) We are fully aware of how high the humidity is, so
shut the hell up. Just spend your money and get the
hell out of here, or we'll kick your ass.

8. Don't order wheat toast at Cracker Barrel. Everyone
will instantly know that you're a Yankee. Eat your
biscuits like God intended with gravy. And don't put
sugar on your grits, or we'll kick your ass.

9) Don't fake a Southern accent. This will incite a
riot, and you will get your ass kicked.

10) Don't talk about how much better things are at
home because we know better. Many of us have visited
Northern hellholes like Detroit Chicago, and DC, and
we have the scars to prove it. If you don't like it
here, Delta is ready when you are. Move your ass on
home before it gets kicked.

11) Yes, we know how to speak proper English. We talk
this way because we don't want to sound like you. We
don't care if you don't understand what we are saying.
All other Southerners understand what we are saying,
and that's all that matters. Now, go away and leave us
alone, or we'll kick your ass.

12) Don't complain that the South is dirty and
polluted. None of OUR lakes or rivers have caught fire
recently. If you whine about OUR scenic beauty, we'll
kick your ass all the way back to Boston Harbor.

13) Don't ridicule our Southern manners. We say sir
and ma'am. We hold doors open for others. We offer our
seats to old folks because such things are expected of
civilized people. Behave yourselves around our sweet
little gray-haired grandmothers or they'll kick some
manners into your ass just like they did ours.

14) So you think we're quaint, or losers, because most
of us live in the countryside? That's because we have
enough sense to not live in filthy, smelly, crime
infested cesspools like New York, Baltimore or Boston.
Make fun of our fresh air, and we'll kick your ass.

15) Last, but not least, DO NOT DARE to come down here
and tell us how to cook barbecue. This will get your
ass shot (right after it is kicked). You're lucky we
let you come down here at all. Criticize our barbecue,
and you will go home in a pine box... minus your ass.
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post #10 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by iPoster
To start you acclimatization, here is a primer on the Souther lifestyle:

Most of that stuff is not true, btw. Ass kicking is a northern thing.

And don't eat at waffle house at all, it is disgusting. Cracker Barrel is awesome though.
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post #11 of 41
ahhhh yup...that's pretty much the South.
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post #12 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Most of that stuff is not true, btw. Ass kicking is a northern thing.

And don't eat at waffle house at all, it is disgusting. Cracker Barrel is awesome though.

You are pretty clearly not from the South. You may live there, but you ain't from there.

And sometimes Waffle House (or Huddle House, or Huddle Hut) is the best thing ever.

Cracker Barrel is an ersatz Southern Culture emporium turned blight on the entire country. It's like a chain of Hee Haw outlets.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #13 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Most of that stuff is not true, btw. Ass kicking is a northern thing.

And don't eat at waffle house at all, it is disgusting. Cracker Barrel is awesome though.


The "Coke" part is. I lived in Columbus Georgia with Coca Cola hdqtr just 2hrs away and people still called any cola a "Coke". Hell most of them drank sweet tea(yum) most of the time.

Don't forget the church on every other block and an affinity for houses with columns.

Southerners will butcher the English language but just go along with it.

They are smarter than they get credit for despite the English thing.

Southerners are generally good people. You have the nuts but hell I can run into nuts just an hour outside of liberal Seattle. At least you can keep your gun in the south hardy har har
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post #14 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
You are pretty clearly not from the South. You may live there, but you ain't from there.

And sometimes Waffle House (or Huddle House, or Huddle Hut) is the best thing ever.

Cracker Barrel is an ersatz Southern Culture emporium turned blight on the entire country. It's like a chain of Hee Haw outlets.

I am from British Columbia, Canada.

I ate at Waffle house only once - the 400 lb sweaty woman that made my omlet used a half cup ladel of oil in the production, it was truely gross.

Cracker Barrel has the best bacon, nice eggs and great potato caserole - and judging from the people that I see there, a lot of real southerners like it too. I eat like a pig there.

And I don't think that the "Coke" as a generic term for soft drink applies to North Carolina - maybe other parts of the south. Of course, the whole area from Raleigh to Chapel Hill is not very southern anyway.
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post #15 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
I am from British Columbia, Canada.

Ah HA!!! Not just a yankee, but a DAMN YANKEE!

Quote:
I ate at Waffle house only once - the 400 lb sweaty woman that made my omlet used a half cup ladel of oil in the production, it was truely gross.

In order to truly appreciate the WH, you need to do the following:

1) Go out with some buddies to your local dive bar.
2) Drink way too much and stay out way too late.
3) Go to WH and eat.
4) Go home feeling refreshed.

Quote:
Cracker Barrel has the best bacon, nice eggs and great potato caserole - and judging from the people that I see there, a lot of real southerners like it too. I eat like a pig there.

You clearly need to fine you a diner somewhere, if that's what you want (potato casserole? Is that some yankee term for hash browns? ). For instance, I eat almost every Saturday at Karen's Cafe, where the owner is from Mobile, AL and the cook is from east Texas (I cut him slack because he makes REAL grits). At Karen's, I can get what they call a "Bubba." (2 eggs, toast, hash browns, bacon, sausage, grits, and pancakes.)

Find you a place like that. Maybe try driving around on a Saturday or Sunday and look for the diner with the most dualie pickups in the parking lot. Seriously.

Quote:
And I don't think that the "Coke" as a generic term for soft drink applies to North Carolina - maybe other parts of the south. Of course, the whole area from Raleigh to Chapel Hill is not very southern anyway. [/B]

Yeah. That area's pretty well infested. But my experience in NC is that they still do the Coke thing.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #16 of 41
Man, now you're gonna get me started.....

Waffle House rules. Waffle House is always open. Waffle House is everywhere. Waffle House in entirely staffed by some of the most dedicated white trash God saw fit to give a spatula and a mop to. Each and everyone of them knows how to make a proper plate of grits, and the coffee is really, really shitty.

I have had lengthy, bewildering conversations with Waffle House worthies, while very very high on false drugs, that I am sure would be suitable for publication, could I only remember them. And yet the atmosphere was never anything but relaxed and affable. Because we are Southerners in the Waffle House together, and all is well.

If you're too hung over to talk, then just listen, because the gals will carry on conversations even as they move to opposite ends of the counter, at which point they'll just holler. I have learned many interesting things about guys with motorcycles and the woman who love them in this way.

Damn, now I'm hungry and much too far away from my peoples.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #17 of 41
Quote:
To start you acclimatization, here is a primer on the Souther lifestyle:

THe only people I can think of that are that preoccupied with asses are from San Francisco.....
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"..do you remember where you parked the car?"
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post #18 of 41
Thread Starter 
I can't beleive that there will be any hostility for being a northerner. I'd imagine some friendly ribbing. 8)

I keep telling myself, "it's a mid-Atlantic state, it's a mid-Atlantic state, it's a mid-Atlantic state"....
post #19 of 41
Hostility? Not in polite company. It's rude. You see, in the South, you learn to hate people in the privacy of your own mind.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #20 of 41
Southern culture. There's an oxymoron. Yeah yeah I know, I'm just a moron.
post #21 of 41
Fucking yankees.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #22 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
I'm not worried about going down south culture wise, as long as there are still places to get good sushi.

Ah sushi addict, I bet that is were the debt issue comes from. Just say NO! ... or sell your TV,your parent's TV, the neighbors TV, you get the idea.
post #23 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Fucking yankees.

I got your back, bro.

It's weird, in California I'm a dread liberal and scourge of the midwestern decent folk, but in Alabama I'm just another southerner.

People (yankee people) have no idea how tolerant the South can be of ne'er-do-wells, eccentrics and misfits of all stripes, just as long as they southerners, born or adopted.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
People (yankee people) have no idea how tolerant the South can be of ne'er-do-wells, eccentrics and misfits of all stripes, just as long as they southerners, born or adopted.

That's because no one reads their Faulkner or Welty anymore. I mean, hell, Eck Snopes fell in love with a cow, for God's sake, and nobody went nuts about that.

Need I even mention George E. Ohr, the Mad Potter of Biloxi?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #25 of 41
Florida is pretty cheap, and it's not quite as Southern as North Carolina. In Brevard Couty (where I am) most of the business is high-tech government contractors, so there's plenty of work for anyone in tech.
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post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
That's because no one reads their Faulkner or Welty anymore. I mean, hell, Eck Snopes fell in love with a cow, for God's sake, and nobody went nuts about that.

Need I even mention George E. Ohr, the Mad Potter of Biloxi?

Very true, that. I think in some ways my ideas of what it meant and means to be a Southerner, sort of um.... the more exteme possibilities, were as much influenced by Flannery O'Conner as just growing up in Alabama.

You know, that sort of hallucinogenic, crazy-with-the-heat, yet laconic and just take her as she comes vibe.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Very true, that. I think in some ways my ideas of what it meant and means to be a Southerner, sort of um.... the more exteme possibilities, were as much influenced by Flannery O'Conner as just growing up in Alabama.

You know, that sort of hallucinogenic, crazy-with-the-heat, yet laconic and just take her as she comes vibe.

I omitted O'Connor because I'm just not really sure, personally, how she felt about the South. It's a bit of a love/hate thing, it seems to me, but admittedly, I've not read nearly enough of her work to know for sure.

I can say that I have never actually run across a door to door Bible salesman who's actually stealing prosthetic limbs.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I omitted O'Connor because I'm just not really sure, personally, how she felt about the South. It's a bit of a love/hate thing, it seems to me, but admittedly, I've not read nearly enough of her work to know for sure.

I can say that I have never actually run across a door to door Bible salesman who's actually stealing prosthetic limbs.

No? Commonplace in my neck of the woods. In fact, we used to say "Mama, hide them store bought legs, a Bible salesmen done come to the door".

I know what you mean about O'Conner, in that her disreputable and possessed characters aren't exactly fond, but the cumulative tone, the mise en scene really seemed to capture the simultaneously harsh and opiated music of the lay of the land, to turn a clumsy phrase.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #29 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
I know what you mean about O'Conner, in that her disreputable and possessed characters aren't exactly fond, but the cumulative tone, the mise en scene really seemed to capture the simultaneously harsh and opiated music of the lay of the land, to turn a clumsy phrase.

Now damn it, Addabox! You can't go around using phrases like "mise en scene"! Didn't you get the memo that we're supposed to keep letting the yankees think we're dumb as a bag of rocks? I suppose it's my fault, what with my use of "ersatz" up there.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Now damn it, Addabox! You can't go around using phrases like "mise en scene"! Didn't you get the memo that we're supposed to keep letting the yankees think we're dumb as a bag of rocks? I suppose it's my fault, what with my use of "ersatz" up there.

Whoops, sorry, I meant to say "That writer lady, she sure do know how to write good? It's like a can see what she's sayin' in my head? Damn, if I can't!"
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #31 of 41
Your recall of O'Connor is pretty brilliant. For a southerner.
post #32 of 41
Thread Starter 
I'm thinking about Durham. But I have a lead on a job in Greenville as well. How is Greenville NC or nearby towns in general?
post #33 of 41
Chapel Hill and Raleigh (especially the RTP area) aren't really "Southern' -- too many Yankees. Greenville SC isn't really southern, nor is Asheville NC. Charlotte is hardly worth mentioning as a "Southern" place these days, following Atlanta.

Greenville NC is a nice place to live, but hot in the summer. 10 minutes from town and you're in the sticks.

NC is more modern than most of the South, but the places you're talking about moving to are more "Yankeefied" than parts of rural Connecticut, Ohio and Pennsylvania. Rural is rural, no matter where you go.
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post #34 of 41
Quote:
hapel Hill and Raleigh (especially the RTP area) aren't really "Southern' -- too many Yankees.

You really must be Southern. Any place that has a Bill Graham Highway is way too Southern for my NY ass!


Outsider, you should really think about this, I mean you are prolly too old to be tainted, but your offspring will be Southern. \
post #35 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trick fall
You really must be Southern. Any place that has a Bill Graham Highway is way too Southern for my NY ass!


Outsider, you should really think about this, I mean you are prolly too old to be tainted, but your offspring will be Southern. \

I plan on changing NC to a blue state.
post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by trick fall
You really must be Southern. Any place that has a Bill Graham Highway is way too Southern for my NY ass!

Outsider, you should really think about this, I mean you are prolly too old to be tainted, but your offspring will be Southern. \

My offspring have lived here their whole lives, and they are not southern. Raleigh - Durham - Chapel Hill is very non-southern, you hear an accent every few days or so, but my kids didn't pick it up.
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post #37 of 41
I'm a big fan of Duham and Chapel Hill as well. There are a lot of relocated yankees here, so don't expect too big a culture shock if any. If you want something more different, the Triangle isn't really the right area since it's grown so much from transplants. It's really this oasis of northerndom in East/Central Carolina. Western Carolina like Hendersonville, Asheville, etc. are suppoed to be really nice too. Don't know about the job market there though, there are a lot of resorts.

I love Durham myself, great food, a downtown that's finally coming together in a big way, nice old homes on the cheap, big intellectual and professional area. Durham's repute for being a city in trouble comes from the poor East Durham area, and that still is a problem, so it's not all rosy of course. Parts West are nice, near Duke, and I live downtown. C.A.R.Y. is cul-de-sac hell IMO. Raleigh just feels like Trenton to me. A tour of the capital area one afternoon satiated me. Chapel Hill is a big college town. Carrboro is great too, right next to Chapel Hill. Contact me if you have specific questions about Durham. I moved here a year ago.
post #38 of 41
Thread Starter 
Thanks B.R.

We just went down for a 4 day weekend to check out real estate and the area and liked what we saw. people were friendly and they actually knew how to drive. And great barbeque!
post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
My offspring have lived here their whole lives, and they are not southern. Raleigh - Durham - Chapel Hill is very non-southern, you hear an accent every few days or so, but my kids didn't pick it up.

Told you. Too many Yankees. Might as well be the DC area (NOVA).
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Never had ONE lesson.
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post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally posted by Outsider
Thanks B.R.

We just went down for a 4 day weekend to check out real estate and the area and liked what we saw. people were friendly and they actually knew how to drive. And great barbeque!

make sure you don't get sucked into the "cult" of wet, tomato-based BBQ that they eat in Eastern NC. It's tripe.

The REAL barbecue comes from the Western part of the state, and folks eat it dry with a vinegar-based pepper sauce added to taste (at the table). This kind is sometimes referred to as Lexington BBQ (due to the yummy BBQ produced in that town) and is to die for. Like butter, even.

NOTE: in no way can beef or chicken be used to create REAL BBQ. Real BBQ is chopped pork. And ribs don't count either.
Never had ONE lesson.
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Never had ONE lesson.
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