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Iran thumbs it's nose at International Community... Again

post #1 of 267
Thread Starter 
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/10/iran.iaea/

"Today all seals will be removed by IAEA inspectors, and all reprocessing activities can be carried out at the facility," The Associated Press quoted Gholamreza Aghazadeh as telling state television.

The head of Iran's Atomic Energy Organization said the seals would be removed only after the inspectors had finished installing their surveillance equipment at the facility at Isfahan, 410 kilometers (255 miles) south of Tehran, AP reporte

"Last week, EU negotiators offered Iran a package of proposals for long-term support of its civilian nuclear program in exchange for guarantees not to develop atomic weapons.

Sounds like the deal made with Korea by the former admin, and we all know how that turned out.
post #2 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Sounds like the deal made with Korea by the former admin, and we all know how that turned out.

Sounds more like the bullshit with Iraq WMD's and we all know how that turned out: dead Iraqis.....oh wait....that's the point.........
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post #3 of 267
"In a statement read late Tuesday at the IAEA meeting, Iran's leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a fatwa, or religious legal ruling, saying "production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons are forbidden under Islam and that the Islamic Republic of Iran shall never acquire these weapons."

for what it's worth.

The issue is really if Iran should be allowed to acquire nuclear technology, which can be used both for energy and weapons. I don't really see how they can be denied this. Anyone know what the non-proliferation treatment actually says?
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post #4 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by New
"In a statement read late Tuesday at the IAEA meeting, Iran's leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a fatwa, or religious legal ruling, saying "production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons are forbidden under Islam and that the Islamic Republic of Iran shall never acquire these weapons."

for what it's worth.

The issue is really if Iran should be allowed to acquire nuclear technology, which can be used both for energy and weapons. I don't really see how they can be denied this. Anyone know what the non-proliferation treatment actually says?

It gives them the right to develop nuclear power for no weapons purposes - and this is what they are doing. Just like many other countries.

The difference is that they have been on the hit-list since the neocons took power and unfortunately thousands of civilians will have to die. It's been decided. If it's not this issue then it will be another.

Like in Iraq.
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post #5 of 267
God. I hate it when a country thumbs its nose at the international community.

--B
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post #6 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz
God. I hate it when a country thumbs its nose at the international community.

--B

hehe
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post #7 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
It gives them the right to develop nuclear power for no weapons purposes - and this is what they are doing. Just like many other countries.

The difference is that they have been on the hit-list since the neocons took power and unfortunately thousands of civilians will have to die. It's been decided. If it's not this issue then it will be another.

Like in Iraq.

With that scenario, wouldn't it have been wise of Iran to accept the EU deal for now, thus removing that "excuse for war" so to speak.
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post #8 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by New
With that scenario, wouldn't it have been wise of Iran to accept the EU deal for now, thus removing that "excuse for war" so to speak.

Yes, I think so personally but imo the clerics there are acting from 2 suppositions (which may be miscalculations - or not):

1) that the US is too stretched to do anything militarily and if they do (or worse, if Israel does) then the Iranian 'moderates' will get on side and take them on.

They are emboldened also by the Iraqi insurgents success - Iran has hundreds/thousands of times more resources than this.

2) The Iranian mindset is based on a kind of 'avoiding loss of face'. They cannot show a weakness - if the west understood this they could manipulate it by negotiation and achieve all their goals (well, the ones that don't involve killing anyway).

There may also be an attitude arising lately along the lines of 'these guys are on a mission to get us and they will make their move - better we drive it on our own terms than them seeing as it is unavoidable'.

Also it is worth remembering that there are many, many things that we never hear of in the west that are happening in Iraq on a daily basis - torture, rape of children, summary execution of women etc - all these things are common knowledge in Iran and there is a sense that the perpetrators are immoral murderers who need to be defeated.

Some people would welcome such a confrontation and chance of defeating what they see as - and what may well be - evil.
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post #9 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Yes, I think so personally but imo the clerics there are acting from 2 suppositions (which may be miscalculations - or not):

1) that the US is too stretched to do anything militarily and if they do (or worse, if Israel does) then the Iranian 'moderates' will get on side and take them on.

They are emboldened also by the Iraqi insurgents success - Iran has hundreds/thousands of times more resources than this.

2) The Iranian mindset is based on a kind of 'avoiding loss of face'. They cannot show a weakness - if the west understood this they could manipulate it by negotiation and achieve all their goals (well, the ones that don't involve killing anyway).

There may also be an attitude arising lately along the lines of 'these guys are on a mission to get us and they will make their move - better we drive it on our own terms than them seeing as it is unavoidable'.

Also it is worth remembering that there are many, many things that we never hear of in the west that are happening in Iraq on a daily basis - torture, rape of children, summary execution of women etc - all these things are common knowledge in Iran and there is a sense that the perpetrators are immoral murderers who need to be defeated.

Some people would welcome such a confrontation and chance of defeating what they see as - and what may well be - evil.

So basically what you're saying is that it is nose thumbing involved? But more at the US then the international community.
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post #10 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by New
So basically what you're saying is that it is nose thumbing involved? But more at the US then the international community.

'Nose-thumbing' is a loaded and (to my mind) rather inaccurate term which evokes associations with the behaviour of the playground so....no.

It also has a subtext which is a supposition that the 'nose-thumbers' are somehow 'in the wrong' or doing something which deserves a form of punishment.

Clearly this is intentional but you surely cannot expect me to agree with it ????

If asked to rephrase in a more appropriate manner, I suppose you could say "Iran persues it's right under established treaties to compete on a par with other signatories of the said treaties and has decided to accept responsibility for any consequences the more unstable members of the world community may see fit to inflict'.
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post #11 of 267
Is it just me, or does it seem like Iran is trying to pick a fight?
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post #12 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Is it just me, or does it seem like Iran is trying to pick a fight?

Why not, they have N. Korea giving them weapons.
post #13 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Is it just me, or does it seem like Iran is trying to pick a fight?

They're trying to improve their bargaining position. Think about the possibilities:

1. They keep on in this vein, and the offers get better and better. Then they accept a phat one.

2. No one stops them, they get the bomb, and they become more influential. Israel is checked.

3. They're attacked by US/IC and save face because they were "doing everything in their power to defend Iran".

Game Theory dictates that they do it. There are hardly any real incentives to not develop nuclear weapons. They're not evil. They're rational.

What isn't rational?

Quote:
Any leader who's thinking about going nuclear and wondering what rewards he'd get for restraining his appetites wouldn't see many signs of encouragement for good behavior. Bush mentioned expanding the largess of Nunn-Lugar to any and all countries that give up the bomb, but he's been less than lavish with those that already have. In the budget that Bush just sent up to Congress, he cut the level of Nunn-Lugar assistance from $451 million to $409 million. Sam Nunn, who co-sponsored the measure when he was in the Senate, has complained of the administration's meagerness on this score. ...

Measured in "real dollars" (that is, adjusting for inflation), this year's spending on nuclear activities is equal to what Ronald Reagan spent at the height of the U.S.-Soviet standoff. It exceeds by over 50 percent the average annual sum ($4.2 billion) that the United States spentagain, in real dollarsthroughout the four and a half decades of the Cold War. ... Ten years ago, spending on nuclear activities amounted to $3.4 billion, half of today's sum. ...

For instance, a nuclear wannabe might look around to see what the leaders who already have nukes are doing with their own arsenals. On this point, Bush is no object of emulation. In his new budget, he is asking for $3 billion for nuclear weapons projects, including funds for a new generation of precision-guided, low-yield nuclear weaponsi.e., for nuclear weapons that would be more militarily useful (say, for blowing up deep bunkers) than the multi-kiloton monsters we built in Cold War days to blast Soviet missile silos and vast industrial complexes. If part of Bush's plan is to persuade the world's leaders that nuclear weapons offer no benefits in the 21st century, he's sending a hell of a signal to the contrary.

--B
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post #14 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Is it just me, or does it seem like Iran is trying to pick a fight?

They are obviously trying to pick a fight.

Nuclear power makes no sense for Iran - they have huge natural gas reserves. What they are thinking of doing is selling natural gas to India and Pakistan, and building nuclear power for themselves.

Obviously, it would be much more cost efficient to use natural gas powered power plants domestically than nuclear. Their nuclear plant must be for weapon production - any other explaination makes the Iranians just look stupid.

The US is retaliating by making a deal with India - the US will support more monitored nuclear reactors in India in exchange for India scrapping the gas pipeline from Iran.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/li...30-rferl02.htm
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post #15 of 267
Some very good points, bergz.
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post #16 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
They are obviously trying to pick a fight.

Nuclear power makes no sense for Iran - they have huge natural gas reserves. What they are thinking of doing is selling natural gas to India and Pakistan, and building nuclear power for themselves.

Obviously, it would be much more cost efficient to use natural gas powered power plants domestically than nuclear. Their nuclear plant must be for weapon production - any other explaination makes the Iranians just look stupid.

Actually, Norway, with just as much oil and gas, and only 4 million people, also have a nuclear capability, reactors, and some of the worlds only production of heavy water. So based on that you're jumping to conclusions here. It's not wrong for a country to have ambitions of mastering modern technology.
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post #17 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Nuclear power makes no sense for Iran - they have huge natural gas reserves. What they are thinking of doing is selling natural gas to India and Pakistan, and building nuclear power for themselves.

If that's what they're trying to do when what's the problem?

I thought the problem was that they want to get a nuke - and of course if they did have one they'd definitely let it off - but you are saying their rationale os different and you <i>still</i> think they are 'evil' for doing it.

As I say, it's not about nukes or anything else - it's about finding the right justification to kill some more ragheads.
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post #18 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz
They're trying to improve their bargaining position. Think about the possibilities:

1. They keep on in this vein, and the offers get better and better. Then they accept a phat one.

2. No one stops them, they get the bomb, and they become more influential. Israel is checked.

3. They're attacked by US/IC and save face because they were "doing everything in their power to defend Iran".

Game Theory dictates that they do it. There are hardly any real incentives to not develop nuclear weapons. They're not evil. They're rational.

What isn't rational?


--B

The only problem is Iran is a radical extremist run nation. You trying to credit them with rational thought is just wishful fuzzy-feeling talk.

They want a nuclear weapon to wipe out Israel first and then move on to the Great Satan.

If Iran or Syria or any number of rogue nations or entities get nuclear weapons, we will see tragedy beyond anything we have seen to date.

New:

You seem to be totally ignoring Iran's long history of terrorism.
post #19 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
They want a nuclear weapon to wipe out Israel first and then move on to the Great Satan.

And there you have it - this is as intellectual as it gets - kudos for the honesty though. This is how the wingers think. Thank you.

The question for the more balanced of us is "is this true?" - you can forget "how do you know this?" - they don't.
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post #20 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
The only problem is Iran is a radical extremist run nation. You trying to credit them with rational thought is just wishful fuzzy-feeling talk.

More rock-solid contributions to the discussion from the man who thinks that any documented evidence of anything is "Conspiracy theories, accusations, and innuendo," and then posts things like "Why not, they have N. Korea giving them weapons" considering that to be a socratic thesis.

Moving on.

--B
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post #21 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
If that's what they're trying to do when what's the problem?

The problem is that we don't want countries that are hostile to the US to have nuclear weapons. Iran is a hostile country - if they kicked out the religious leadership and became a more western style democracy, then I would not have a problem with them having a nuclear weapon.
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post #22 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
This is how the wingers think. Thank you.

This is how the overgeneralizing, ignorant liberals think. Thank YOU.

No, they're not "Republicans" or "conservatives" anymore. They're all just "Wingers." Way to keep an open mind there, segovius.

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post #23 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
And there you have it - this is as intellectual as it gets - kudos for the honesty though. This is how the wingers think. Thank you.

The question for the more balanced of us is "is this true?" - you can forget "how do you know this?" - they don't.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/...693968185.html

"The United States is showing off by threatening to use its wild dog, Israel," the public relations head of the Revolutionary Guards, Commander Seyed Masood Jazayeri, was quoted as saying by the Iranian student news agency ISNA.

"They will not hesitate to strike Iran if they are capable of it. However, their threats to attack Iran's nuclear facilities cannot be realised.

"They are aware Tehran's reaction will be so harsh that Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth and US interests will be easily damaged," he warned.

Wipe Israel off the face the earth? How will that happen exactly? Perhaps a recently purchased Korean Nuke? Or maybe they are a little further along than some think.

Hmmm....
post #24 of 267
Thread Starter 
oh yeah and remember this golden oldie...

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=28708

"The Shahab-3 is believed to be based on a North Korean design and is thought to be capable of carrying a one-tonne warhead at least 1,300 kilometres (800 miles), well within range of Israel and US bases in the region.

During a military parade last week, Iran showed off its range of ballistic missiles draped in banners vowing to "crush America" and "wipe Israel off the map".
post #25 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
The problem is that we don't want countries that are hostile to the US to have nuclear weapons. Iran is a hostile country - if they kicked out the religious leadership and became a more western style democracy, then I would not have a problem with them having a nuclear weapon.

I don't understand how some can resolve these two theories:

1. The balance between the Soviet Union and the US during the Cold War was the only system that could assure worldwide nuclear security (other nations simply allying themselves as opposed to developing their own weapons).

and

2. We're the only nuclear superpower, and are therefore the custodians of a great responsibility but when we find it politically or economically convenient, we'll disregard the NPT ourselves and also let our friends have a taste.


--B
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post #26 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Actually, Norway, with just as much oil and gas, and only 4 million people, also have a nuclear capability, reactors, and some of the worlds only production of heavy water. So based on that you're jumping to conclusions here. It's not wrong for a country to have ambitions of mastering modern technology.

Likewise with Denmark. Despite bringing up more oil and gas than our consumption has a strong program for wind that makes us the largest producers - and perhaps also users - of wind turbines. And we also use much more coal than the average western country because its cheaper.

There could be a lot of reasons for Iran to sell their oil and go after other means of energy production.
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post #27 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Likewise with Denmark. Despite bringing up more oil and gas than our consumption has a strong program for wind that makes us the largest producers - and perhaps also users - of wind turbines. And we also use much more coal than the average western country because its cheaper.

There could be a lot of reasons for Iran to sell their oil and go after other means of energy production.

Once again. They openly vow to "wipe israel off the face of the earth" and "Crush America".

Am I missing something?

You people are basically saying "Pay no attention to the ugly words. Come. Let's think positive thoughts to counteract the ugly words."

I can list hundreds of reports that say the same thing over and over.

Have I stumbled into Stepford here or what?
post #28 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Once again. They openly vow to "wipe israel off the face of the earth" and "Crush America".

Am I missing something?

You people are basically saying "Pay no attention to the ugly words. Come. Let's think positive thoughts to counteract the ugly words."

I can list hundreds of reports that say the same thing over and over.

Have I stumbled into Stepford here or what?

I've heard winger shouting 'nuke Iran' (or Syria or Mecca) for years - what's the difference?

Oh wait...you're 'better' than they are right?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #29 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I've heard winger shouting 'nuke Iran' (or Syria or Mecca) for years - what's the difference?

Oh wait...you're 'better' than they are right?

I'm not sure that some American redneck shouting "Nuke the bastards!" in a drunken stupor from his pickup truck elevates to the level of a Commander of the Revolutionary Guards. If you have a U.S. general saying it, then maybe the two are equivalent.
post #30 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I've heard winger shouting 'nuke Iran' (or Syria or Mecca) for years - what's the difference?

Oh wait...you're 'better' than they are right?

In a state sponsored parade?

I love when bad behavior is justified by other bad behavior. Or perhaps you are equating a citizen crying for action with a state sponsored parade with such declarations or both.

Either way, I think you're being intellectually dishonest, with yourself even!
post #31 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
I'm not sure that some American redneck shouting "Nuke the bastards!" in a drunken stupor from his pickup truck elevates to the level of a Commander of the Revolutionary Guards. If you have a U.S. general saying it, then maybe the two are equivalent.

From the American Conservative Magazine (hardly a pinko-commie freedom-hating fag-rag):

Quote:
The Pentagon, acting under instructions from Vice President Dick Cheney's office, has tasked the United States Strategic Command (STRATCOM) with drawing up a contingency plan to be employed in response to another 9/11-type terrorist attack on the United States. The plan includes a large-scale air assault on Iran employing both conventional and tactical nuclear weapons. Within Iran there are more than 450 major strategic targets, including numerous suspected nuclear-weapons-program development sites. Many of the targets are hardened or are deep underground and could not be taken out by conventional weapons, hence the nuclear option. As in the case of Iraq, the response is not conditional on Iran actually being involved in the act of terrorism directed against the United States. Several senior Air Force officers involved in the planning are reportedly appalled at the implications of what they are doing--that Iran is being set up for an unprovoked nuclear attack--but no one is prepared to damage his career by posing any objections.

So let's reiterate: nuke Iran when (not if) another terrorist attack occurs. Regardless of the perpetrators. Just like 911 - but with nukes.

You see the point is that the US Government has been infiltrated by sick psychopathic murderers. That's unfortunately the truth.

No one is prepared to do anything from within the US - you've had long enough and these maniacs still have carte blanche. Let Iran defend herself I say. Someone needs to stop these insane lunatics that the people refuse to reign in.

Linky
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post #32 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
From the American Conservative Magazine (hardly a pinko-commie freedom-hating fag-rag):



So let's reiterate: nuke Iran when (not if) another terrorist attack occurs. Regardless of the perpetrators. Just like 911 - but with nukes.

You see the point is that the US Government has been infiltrated by sick psychopathic murderers. That's unfortunately the truth.

No one is prepared to do anything from within the US - you've had long enough and these maniacs still have carte blanche. Let Iran defend herself I say. Someone needs to stop these insane lunatics that the people refuse to reign in.

Linky

First, a link would be good so that context can be deturmined.

Second. No direct quotes. Comes across like pure speculation.

Third, Iran is and has been a direct threat to the US and it's interest for a long time. I would hope that there is a plan in place to take on Iran.
post #33 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
First, a link would be good so that context can be deturmined.

Second. No direct quotes. Comes across like pure speculation.

Third, Iran is and has been a direct threat to the US and it's interest for a long time. I would hope that there is a plan in place to take on Iran.

First: The link is there

Second: right - let's wait till there's some dead bodies to regret it (except you won't)

Third: You hope the nuke plan is in place. We know that. Luckily, you ARE representative. Not so difficult to deal with.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #34 of 267
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
First: The link is there

Second: right - let's wait till there's some dead bodies to regret it (except you won't)

Third: You hope the nuke plan is in place. We know that. Luckily, you ARE representative. Not so difficult to deal with.

This is the direct link:
http://www.amconmag.com/2005_08_01/article3.html

I think you missed on line in the article:

"Many of the targets are hardened or are deep underground and could not be taken out by conventional weapons, hence the nuclear option."

Why are they underground or so hardened?

Could it be because they know their activity will be considered hostile?
post #35 of 267
Thread Starter 
More great news today.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/Descripti...&Cat=2&Num=004

Quote:
Our facilities have been constructed for peaceful purposes and under the supervision of the (UN nuclear) agency and there is no reason to attack these sites. We will definitely not lose and will not back down for a moment from this technology."

Not anymore, if even they ever effectively were.

Quote:
"Should we accept humiliation, the sanctions, see ourselves be punished, or should we resist? I think that we should resist," the defense minister maintained.

"What are they going to do at the Security Council, impose sanctions on us? Sanctions have already been imposed on us," he added.

Basically "Your silly sanctions have no effect on us"

Quote:
"Shamkhani said Iran's Shahab-3 missiles "are now accurate to within one meter of their target".

Sounds like a threat to me.
post #36 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz
I don't understand how some can resolve these two theories:

1. The balance between the Soviet Union and the US during the Cold War was the only system that could assure worldwide nuclear security (other nations simply allying themselves as opposed to developing their own weapons).

and

2. We're the only nuclear superpower, and are therefore the custodians of a great responsibility but when we find it politically or economically convenient, we'll disregard the NPT ourselves and also let our friends have a taste.


--B

I don't have any trouble resolving these two ideas at all - if we could have stopped the soviets from getting nuclear weapons in the first place, we would have been even better off.

Are you suggesting that we should encourage proliferation of nuclear weapons? If so, then you are a fool.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #37 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
From the American Conservative Magazine (hardly a pinko-commie freedom-hating fag-rag):



So let's reiterate: nuke Iran when (not if) another terrorist attack occurs. Regardless of the perpetrators. Just like 911 - but with nukes.

You see the point is that the US Government has been infiltrated by sick psychopathic murderers. That's unfortunately the truth.

No one is prepared to do anything from within the US - you've had long enough and these maniacs still have carte blanche. Let Iran defend herself I say. Someone needs to stop these insane lunatics that the people refuse to reign in.

Linky

Not to forget, but the next time there is a major "terrorist" attack upon the United States, there is a very good chance, considering the crew of psychopaths in the current White House (and Pentagon), that the attack will be a "Northwoods" type of operation, rather than a bunch of fundies getting pissy because they "don't like our freedoms".

Just from a practical standpoint, when this attack *does* happen, the public must videotape and record all the *first* media broadcasts of the attack. Get all the first-hand, eyewitness reports, all the unfiltered initial reoprts, and hold the people who are doing any investigations responsible to answering *all* the questions. On 9-11 many aspects of those attacks which were banned from getting an airing in the "9-11 (C)om(m)ission" hearings were broadcast on the mainstream radio and TV networks, only to get forgotten in the welter of lies, propaganda and whitewash that followed.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #38 of 267
So, Naples, as you begin to agitate for another war of "preemptive" aggression, based on intelligence that may or may not be accurate (but how could any of our intelligence be wrong? We must take it at face value), I'm sure there is one question paramount in the minds of all of us here at Political Outsider:

When are you going to enlist? Because we all know there is just no way in hell a tough talking, take no prisoners, red meat defender of American values is going to let another war that he endlessly champions be fought by other people.

No sir, there is no doubt in my mind that you simply couldn't live with the stain of craven, gutless hypocrisy that is the distinguishing feature of the chicken-hawk, who is ever ready to put somebody else's life on the line for his principles.

God knows they could use you. The glorious appointment with destiny in Iraq has kinda taken a toll on recruitment and the endless extensions of reserve tours of duty are really taking a toll on the kids who were patriotic enough to sign up to serve there country (I know you meant to, must have had "other priorities"), like this guy.

Two weeks shy of finishing his National Guard duty when he gets the involuntary re-up notice, gets shipped off to Iraq, and killed. And he thought the war was stupid and wrong.

Doesn't it tear at your conscience to know it could have, should have been you?

And if we go after Iran, we sure as shit are going to need a lot more of America's brave, can't shut them up chicken-hawks to put their asses on the line, which seems only right and proper, don't you think? And hey, the military is softening the requirements, upping the age limit and all, so if you thought you didn't qualify, you better check again!

Or is it just a whole hell of a lot more comfortable to play at being the mad little general on the internet, where bellicose speeches about what must be done never gets any blood or brains on your shirt?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #39 of 267
NaplesX, since your such a specialist on Iranian politics, could you comment on this qoute then: "In a statement read late Tuesday at the IAEA meeting, Iran's leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a fatwa, or religious legal ruling, saying "production, stockpiling and use of nuclear weapons are forbidden under Islam and that the Islamic Republic of Iran shall never acquire these weapons."


Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
New:
You seem to be totally ignoring Iran's long history of terrorism.

Yeah, sort of. Are you talking about before 1979, or is the long period you talk about the last 25 years? Could you please point out the long list of iranian terrorist actions, cause all I know is that they have supported millitant groups abroad, which is just the same as the US has done for a much longer period of time.

Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
They want a nuclear weapon to wipe out Israel first and then move on to the Great Satan.

No they won't, because they'll be wiped out, it's called terror balance, like bergz said, it's a natural consequence of one side having nukes. Like in the cold war, and between pakistan and india.

Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
During a military parade last week, Iran showed off its range of ballistic missiles draped in banners vowing to "crush America" and "wipe Israel off the map".

Like that is anything new:

Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
post #40 of 267
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Not to forget, but the next time there is a major "terrorist" attack upon the United States, there is a very good chance, considering the crew of psychopaths in the current White House (and Pentagon), that the attack will be a "Northwoods" type of operation, rather than a bunch of fundies getting pissy because they "don't like our freedoms".

Just from a practical standpoint, when this attack *does* happen, the public must videotape and record all the *first* media broadcasts of the attack. Get all the first-hand, eyewitness reports, all the unfiltered initial reoprts, and hold the people who are doing any investigations responsible to answering *all* the questions. On 9-11 many aspects of those attacks which were banned from getting an airing in the "9-11 (C)om(m)ission" hearings were broadcast on the mainstream radio and TV networks, only to get forgotten in the welter of lies, propaganda and whitewash that followed.

Sammi, do you think it's a reasonable idea that there are just about enough lunatics on the islamic extremist side, (some originally US sponsored), that they don't have to fabricate anything? Wouldn't that even be the smart thing to do?
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Reply
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