Final curtain call for PowerPC-based PowerBooks? - Page 2

heh. steve J could have been honest and said "we'll have crappy laptop updates, but guess what, here, have a Mighty Mighty Mouse"

Why dual channel? The 7448 only has a 200 MHz SDR FSB. Performance-wise, they may be better off with a single channel PC3200, and they really wouldn't lose anything in power if they stuck with PC3200.


Hoping for the 15" to have (if existing 3:2 aspect ratio) 1920x1280 or 1440x960 resolution options.


For the next Powerbook update, there should be a Powerbook 12". I can't see how the Apple bean counters would not want it. It's just an iBook sold with $200+ more profit.


I wouldn't be surprised if they were 7447A/B chips.

But yeah, 1.7 GHz 7448 = 1.8/1.9 GHz 7447A. So it is more of a performance increase than appears. And I also wouldn't be surprised if a 1.7 GHz 7448 in power consumption = 1.67 GHz 7447A in power consumption either. What makes Freescale immune to the troubles that IBM and Intel initially had at 90nm?

And, hmm, where could they put a scrollball on the thing? Just above the trackpad? Could be a useless device though. A key combo + trackpad could do the same thing.

Certinaly still fells like it!

There aren't any 7447b's, so that's out.

As I showed before Freescale is giving a spec for the 7448 that is the same as the 7447a = 2.3MIPS/MHz.

Again, the links:

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...468rH3bTdG8653

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...468rH3bTdG8653

The cache is the improvement.

Freescale isn't immune to those problems. The 7447a is simply not a bleeding edge chip to begin with so it isn't too hard to improve on it. Also they have had the benefit of time. Both Intel and IBM did the work. They are delayed by 8 or more months. It gave them time to work around some of those unexpected problems which are now well known.

This could be really nice. I'll pick one up to replace a 1.25 GHz Al PB. This will last me two years or so till they work through the Intel transition.

Regarding the G5 PB, you have to imagine that Apple already has the engineering done to put this in a PB. They wouldn't wait till it was released then start the engineering. They certainly have been getting prototypes for a long time. No surprise there.

I think we'll see one more PB update after this before the switch. My guess is we'll see PBs with Intel at MWSF 2007. I think they'll go MacMini, iBook, PB then PM.


Just speculation but it could be that HD playback would be provided by the graphics chip? I think I've read that both nVidia and ATI were working on putting H.264 decoding into their chips.

One easy explanation for the dropping of the 12" PB is, that it will be replaced by a cool new form-factor 13.3" Widescreen (1280x800)HD PB at around 2kg (4 lbs) (probably built by ASUSTEK)
And that thing will be very sweet.

One of the complaints Windows users have against the Mac laptops is the screen rez. They have higher rez even though they can't play H.64 1080p either. that doesn't mean it shouldn't be there.

My problem with such high rez in such a small monitor is that text is just too small. That rez is really meant for 24" monitors, or at least 21", where it's still too high.

I use a Sony 24" crt, and people say that they can't read the type. Screwing around to make the type larger just negates most of the advantages. 1440x900 is pretty good for a 17" screen as it is.

This is just a big guess, right?

Interesting links, especially the power consumption numbers. The current top iBook has a 1.42 Ghz 7447a inside, therefore consumes 21 W, has a 61 Wh battery and claims 6 h runtime. Running at full throttle, I guess it will last about two hours, that means other consumers (harddrive, screen, optical drive system controller) consume together a maximum of 10 W. If the non-processor consumers can be throttled to 5 W (dim screen, no use of optical drive, little harddrive action) and the processor to 5 W as well, you achieve these 6 h.

Now, with a 7448, which should consume around 10 W at 1.42 Ghz and a low usage consumption of again a fourth of it, i.e. 2.5 W, the battery life time would increase to 8 h.

Doing the same for the 1.5 Ghz Powerbook (4.5 h, 50 Wh, 23 W), say 1.5 h at full throttle gives again 10 W for the other consumers. To get to the 4.5 h, putting the non-proc. consumers again at 5 W, the processor to 6 W (again about a fourth of 23 W) these assumptions seem to hold as well.

With a 7448 (assuming 15 W) the full throttle runtime should go up to 2.5 h and the low usage one to 5.5 h.

Actually it doesn't. That would be Yoni.
Yonah was the biblical prophet who got swallowed by a whale.

Wait... This PB update isn't a big enough update to deserve an announcement during a Stevenote, Right? 30 MHz????? How is Steve going to pull that off?

Steve doesn't say anything. A short-term online Apple Store closure, a quiet bump, and a press release.

"Reliable sources say the PowerBook update is slated for an introduction during the third week of September at Apple Expo Paris"

This doesn't mean it will be announced during Steves Keynote?

my guess? it'll be announced AFTER sept. 24th, since that's when the ipod+powerbook "student union" deal they have going for educational buyers runs out. they want that promo to move out as many units as possible before the announcement.

so if you want to take a chance, order your powerbook the day before steve takes the stage. if you're really lucky, the unit you want will be out of stock, and get swapped to the next level up after the announcement for no extra charge. and even if it isn't, it's not like you're sacrificing a LOT of power by buying early.

Considering we're talking about Apple here, the article states that the 15-inch and 17-inch models [will max out] at 1.7GHz; I believe that 1.7GHz will be the maximum CPU speed, therefore there won't (as in "will not")be a 1.8GHz or 2.0GHz PowerBook. Furthermore, I really do believe that the screen resolutions will remain the same, the video card will remain the same, and the hard drives will remain at 5400rpm. Why? Because Apple has recently been all about not living up to expectations or needs in terms of hardware, especially in the mobile line. I don't mean to be extremely negative, but that's just how it has been, and I'm trying to be realistic.

Now, time for the conspiracy theory. When Apple slipped up on releasing information about a possible WUXGA display, I'd be willing to bet that it was because they had a 17 inch G5 PowerBook ready or on the way. With the unfortunate turn of events, it's pretty clear that the G5 PowerBooks will not see the light of day. However, demand for a G5 PowerBook is extremely high, and Apple knows it, even though they're slated to switch to Intel processors ... so ...

What would be the possibility of the 17-inch G5 PB existing, but the G5 PB line not being released because Apple can't put a G5 into a 15-inch or 12-inch PowerBook enclosure? Also, if Apple only has a 17-inch G5 PB, would you (collectively) buy one, even if Steve Jobs said something like, "This will be the only G5 PowerBook ever, meaning there will not be any other revisions or enclosures; this is the G5 PowerBook, and it will only be available up until we release our official Intel PowerBooks." (It would be a nice macintosh collector's item.) Last question, again if Apple only has a 17-inch G5 PB, what would be the possibility of Apple swallowing their pride and just releasing the one-sized G5 PB?

I'm really sad about speculation that the 12" won't be updated, and might be discontinued. Apple should know full-well that this is perhaps THE most popular powerbook ... as I look around me, I see at least 4 of them in this cafe alone. And everyone who wants a PowerBook seems to lean toward the 12" for portability.

My only hope is this means there will be an even smaller Mac out ... perhaps 10.5" wieghing 2 lbs ... but in any case, the 12" form factor is just about perfect, the case is the width of a fullsize keyboard, the screen is comfortable, it's easy to carry ... I just hope Apple isn't throwing the baby out with the bathwater with the Intel transition ...

17 inch PB... Huh, sounds cool, makes sense, though i doubt that they would actually go through with it after what Steve said during the WWDC in June... But still would be wicked cool!!

Yawn.

I want a Pentium M PowerBook already!

My thouhts about a G5 PB have been that they could do it as they have had to have been working on one for some while. These new designs don't spring from the head of Zeus, so to speak. There is quite a time for gestation.

If Apple tests it, and finds that the heat, power usage and speed are all within expectations, then they might wery well release it. They don't have to have it in the whole line.

The question is whether the 1.6GHz G5 will work for them. Is a 1.6GHz G5 sufficiently more powerful than a 1,7 GHz 7448 G4 to warrant it? Also the speed is lower than the G4. Not by much, but how would it look? Could Apple get it up to 1.7 or 1.75 to appear faster in that way as well?

If they could, and the performance is 25% better than what we have now, then it might be worth it, if it didn't have a life of 2 hours or less, and didn't burn the skin off your thighs.

We don't know what will happen. This is just a rumor, after all. Nothing was actually said about the 12" anyway.

If it is that popular, then it won't be discontinued. No one discontinues a really popukar product unless they have something in the wings to replace it with that's similar enough but with better placement (more/different features, cheaper, etc.).

If it isn't that popular, then they aren't making money on it, and should discontinue it.

There was 6 months ago. Looks like Freescale has wiped all reference to it in their online documentation.


It's unlikely that Intel and IBM are sharing their solutions to the problems they've had at 90nm. Not to mention that IBM is still having problems either. Any problems that Freescale is having, they have to work out on their own, or they can pay for "assistance" from fabs who've been through it already.

strangely enough, the quality of the 12" display compared to the 15" or 17" has always been a sticking point with me. is it a power-consumption thing, or are they manufactured by someone else? i think they are popular for their size despite that (and lack of a few niceties like backlit keyboard and pc card slot), but now that the high-end books keep comign down in price, i think the geeks of us who have been waiting are more willing to shell out for those niceties and leave the 12" hangin'.

one wonders if they would cram every good thing from the 15 and 17 into the powerbook... somehow... if it would sell even better. hell, i would love to have one. a 12" pbook is about the size of my wacom tablet, for crying out loud! (not the active area, the whole physical unit). between the 12" 'book, a tablet, one of those super-small usb-powered scanners and a small camera, you've got studio-in-a-bag.

False!
The 1.42GHz CPUs were XPC parts, not MPC!

All I know is the specs that were posted arent that bad and if they do release new PBs along those lines I will be hard pressed not to pick one up.

I dont want to do the whole rev. a thing again and I think the last of the G4 PB would be a good purchase.

So? Go get one.

It isn't necessary for them to have shared the solutions. The problems are well documented in the journals as well as most of the solutions. I would imagine that Freescales engineers and scientists are well versed enough in the field to be able to squeeze what they needed to know out of that information.

Oh that's fantastic. New screens, and what after only 3 years? So now I'll have a beautiful screen to continue seeing that wonderful rainbow beachball on. But now it will be even clearer. SWEET!

What are you talking about? There are no customer production chips that start with XPC!

Learn what the "X" means before you jump into things. This is from their data sheets:

2. The X prefix in a Motorola part number designates a Pilot Production Prototype as defined by Motorola SOP 3-13. These are from a limited production volume of prototypes manufactured, tested, and Q.A. inspected on a qualified technology to simulate normal production. These parts have only preliminary reliability and characterization data. Before pilot production prototypes may be shipped, written authorization from the customer must be on file in the applicable sales office acknowledging the qualification status and the fact that product changes may still occur while shipping pilot production prototypes.

Hmm, you're confident that Freescale/Philips et al, who are 2 years behind Intel, Intel, AMD with billions less dollars, is capable of learning from the mistakes of the leaders of the pack? I'm not so confident. There are so far behind for good reasons afterall.

quote:Originally posted by oberpongo
One easy explanation for the dropping of the 12" PB is, that it will be replaced by a cool new form-factor 13.3" Widescreen (1280x800)HD PB at around 2kg (4 lbs) (probably built by ASUSTEK)
And that thing will be very sweet.



Actually, that would be more of a wish than anything. Alas, at least we Macheads know how to dream.

They seem behind because they don't compete in the same space. If you go to their site you will find Power PC is under embedded chips. While in the charts they describe the 74-- line as suitable for servers, that's only because Apple uses those chips, and the descriptions are several years out of date.

They market to the automobile market im which they are very sucessful. The printer market is a big one as well. Machinery control does not require the same performance that leading edge personal computers do. But they don't care because they are getting out of that market.

It isn't so much that they can't do something, as it is that they don't have the interest in doing it. They know very well that they can never gain marketshare in the personal computer space because of the domination of x86. So they work elsewhere. they have a very large line of PPC chips, and they are quite sucessful in the areas that they are in - even more so than Intel.

Well, if you could play like your namesake, we could all listen and dream.

ok, so with a final G4 update this september, and the first intel sometime H1 2006-ish, does anyone think there is a possibility of a rev b intel PB coming out before next september? i'll be going to college then, and i would love to have an intel PB, but i don't necessarily want a rev a. the bugs and problems make me very wary. and getting the last G4 means i'd have a year-old computer before i even start school. or do you think it would be worth it to buy an original mactel and just get applecare so that i'm mostly covered (of course, i'd be getting applecare anyways...)? if the first mactel PB's came out in march-ish, that would be fantastic, and it seems at least moderately likely... what does anyone else think?




a 13.3" would be pretty sweet, too...

The next PowerBook G4 will be the new "Pismo". Best of its kind.

Also, if Tiger is the new "OS 9", then I'm to do as before and stay with my "OS 8" (in this case Panther) until the bugs are worked out on the next release.

Too many transitions, and repurchasing of software suites. OpenSource platforms beginning to temp...must resist..., lack of corporate control so..alluring...! what?! no iTunes support?!

Oh blessed iPod, you keep me focused!

errr high definition wide screen is probably the best thing on the list. ddr2 ram isnt really that great because its latency is way higher than ddr and the bus speed jumps are good but its not like theyll help that much. i think it is a much needed update for the powerbook line though. there is basically no real reason to spend 500 more on a powerbook instead of an iBook.

i'm with the ddr2 camp. why?
1. marketing. ddr2 is better than ddr, most people will think
2. infineon execs have claimed ddr2 sodimms will be more compact, less powerconsuming than ddr. this might be true.
3. umm... it just sounds better!

well anyway, i'll continue...

my sony 17" is at 1280x1024. anything that is 720p HDTV capable is fine. a lot of hardcore PC heads will want 1600x1200 crammed into this 4:3 17", but guess what? TOO SMALL, and forcing your games to run at that higher res takes an unnecessary toll on your overall fps and hence the fluidity and enjoyability of your gaming experience. also, it's TOO SMALL! i have probably like 40/40 eyesight, don't use glasses, but not a lot of people can resolve a lot of pixel level detail, a lot of higher res especially on PC screens is just marketing hype and not sensible.

This report doesn't make sense. Every 15- and 17-inch PowerBook has been classified by a singular model number, as is noted. But this report says two new 15- and 17-inch models come in as PowerBook5,8 and PowerBook5,9. Why would Apple's scheme change, especially after it is anticipated these are minor updates at the end of the PPC line?

i totally agree that it is good for marketing but besides the minor gains that you get from it vs. ddr it isnt that great. but that is just for right now, once they get ddr2 more refined and stuff ddr will be considerably better than ddr. although by the time they do that they may be using ddr3(used on all high end video cards) which is really nice stuff.

and then ur second point about high resolution on games is a good point but people are more likely to want a higher resolution on a mac for other things that dont demand high FPS like web browsing and photo viewing etc.

The costs of ramping up a new product for one revision would be a lot higher than that spread out over 2-3+ years that a normal product exists. With the G5 they would have to contract out the tooling of a new MotherBoard, internals and case and recoup that cost in the (likely) 12 months that the product would be offered. Then there would be the cost of supporting that product with repair parts, documentation and training for repair techs, for the a few years as well. Even if all the R&D was done, and the chips ready to be delivered a wise person would scrap the release before all the other costs associated with the release were incured and go without an upgrade, opting instead to push foreword the timetable for the Intel switch. G5 isn't going to happen.

As for the G4, well PowerLogix has released a 2 Ghz 7447 upgrade for PM's, and with the smaller process and other improvements that the 7448 has one would logically assume that even if it is not anounced there is a faster chip available.

I seam to remember that there was a scandal with one of the upgrade manufacturers a number of years ago about processor speeds, and the company pointed out that the chips are are tested and certified to meet the requirements of the contract. This particular case was an issue of the upgrade company buying a lot that originally ordered by another customer and the chips were certified at one speed, but in and environment with a higher operating temperature than the chips would be used in. Given the lower temperature of the Mac case they meet the speed requirements that they were sold as and were not clocked up, however IBM (i think) had printed the clock speed from the original contract on them so there were complaints from customers about thier purchase.

It's possible there could be another update. But it all depends on the cpu. If Freescale gets the speed up, we might see it. Apple really has to do nothing other than drop the faster cpu in. They could do a marginal rev. with a bigger HD, possibly a faster GPU. This could be in Jan. The engineering is minimal, and the production line change is too.

The question is whether they will surprise us with the G5 or not. I don't trust this rumor because Apple has really been keeping it tight to the chest as of late.

I don't think we will see the x86 until May, unless it's a Mini. It would depend on which and how many 3rd party apps are ready to go.

The better the machine, and the later it's introduced before the x86's, the less chance of losing sales.

The 13.3 is not something to wait for. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that there's no evidence as yet for it.

Remember, this is a rumor. Lack of word about the 12" doesn't mean anything now.