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Bush cuts his vacation SHORT! LOL! - Page 7

post #241 of 288
Maybe the Bastards running our Govt should start working for the U.S.A. in stead of say the Oil Companies or China,Mexico,Iraq............ 4-5 days to respond to this is Nuts. The buck stops at the President. Its his watch folks, his troops are running Govt. Hey America you wanted Republicans running things this is what you get. Hell the Oil companies got more relief from this guy then New Orleans.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
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post #242 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Did you even read it?

Wow. Not even a simple acknowledgment that the problems existed way before Bush.
You guys can't see anything through your "Bush-is-evil" mentality.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #243 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Wow. Not even a simple acknowledgment that the problems existed way before Bush.
You guys can't see anything through your "Bush-is-evil" mentality.

Same old straw man.

Nobody here is saying Bush is evil. We are saying his administration is incompetent, and it's all the more galling given his "war president, I'll save you from the terrists" stance.

He appointed a guy with no relevant experience whatsoever to head up FEMA. That's not evil, it's stupid and willfully short-sighted.

4 years after 9/11 and this is the best we can do when faced with a crisis in a major American city?

But I guess planning and preparing is hard work, so, as always: It's Not His Fault.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #244 of 288
I read it:

Quote:
I had NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) money for 30 some years, and then when the Clinton administration came in and Gore started directing some of the environmental stuff, I was cut off.... They turned down 13 straight projects from me."
...
The role of environmental activists such as former U.S. vice-president Al Gore, the Sierra Club and others in putting the city of New Orleans at risk extends far deeper into the process. For more than 20 years, probably longer, activist groups have fought against projects that aimed to shore up flood defences in the Mississippi and Gulf region. By the mid-1990s, the federal government agency charged with most of the flood-control -- the Army Corps of Engineers -- was spending more and more of its effort on environmental work. Instead of restoring and shoring up levees, it was charged with restoring wetlands.
...
The Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund filed suits against the Corps of Engineers, initially blocking levee improvements, insisting on new environmental impact studies. "The Corps plans will cause an avoidable and senseless loss to our nation's wetlands," said the head of the Mississippi River Basin Alliance. Delays ensued.

Then there were budget problems. Money for a US$47-million flood-control and drainage project for a section of New Orleans was shot down by the Clinton administration in 1997. It was not a "national" project.

You missed those 4 paragraphs.

It appears that the Clinton admin is as much or more to blame. I suppose you will call me names now.

Ah well.
post #245 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I would suggest that you all temper your letters and mail - that is if you want to be taken seriously.

Express your disappointment and anger in a respectful way.

Just sayin'

They don't need to. Stuff like this will come out in the next election. If Dubbya keeps this up our next president will be a democrat. It won't matter too much who's running.

And you know it won't matter too much to me either. Anyone would be better.

I'm getting the same feeling I did the night Clinton admitted he'd lied. The election for the next president was pretty much decided before it began.

By the way the old pass the buck trick won't be working either. Been to that well once too often.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #246 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
They don't need to. Stuff like this will come out in the next election. If Dubbya keeps this up our next president will be a democrat. It won't matter too much who's running.

And you know it won't matter too much to me either. Anyone would be better.

When jimmac predicts, people listen. Remember when you heard this classic?

OUT THR DOOR IN 2004!!!!

post #247 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
When jimmac predicts, people listen. Remember when you heard this classic?

OUT THR DOOR IN 2004!!!!



One way or the other Bush is out of time this time. And after the kind of stuff that's going on now the american people will be more than ready for change.

If I were a leader in the republican party I'd be pretty worried about what he's doing to their image.


Read the polls Nappy.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #248 of 288
Wow this thread went quiet real quick.
post #249 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Wow this thread went quiet real quick.


No, we're just laughing at ya.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #250 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
No, we're just laughing at ya.

No, the facts have come to light and I think embarrassment has set in.

Maybe not embarrassment, perhaps this bandwagon stalled. Time for a new one.
post #251 of 288
You really have no idea what's going on around you at any given time, do you?
post #252 of 288
Quote:
It is hot. In most neighborhoods, people haven't seen anyone of any authority. People are angry. They are wandering, in many cases aimlessly.
That's what strikes me about this hurricane.

While there are some people who are optimistic, there are many more people than I've ever seen before who are getting more hopeless.

They don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. Their kids don't have schools. They don't have jobs or houses. They have to restart their lives. I think many people just realize how big this could be.

Sounds like just another scene from New Orleans, doesn't it?

With all the usual answers for why it's everyone's fault but Bush's:
- the mayor screwed up
- the governor screwed up
- people were stupid for being born in a city below sea level
- you can't rescue people or drop food or water off when you're being shot at
- "oh yeah? But Clinton cut the levee budgets TOOOO"

Yep.

EXCEPT -

I intentionally left out the first paragraph:
Quote:
When we drive now for miles and miles, it is hard to believe the level of devastation. Now is an especially tough time, here in Mississippi, because the state is still out of electricity and water. And no one is talking about when it will be back.

Yeah, that's right, not NOLA but Mississippi - no armed packs of thugs shooting at rescuers, no broken levees or flooded urban areas, no below sea level, no NOLA mayor or LA governor to blame it on. And yet they also are still waiting on any kind of official relief (the kind traditionally supplied by FEMA and the NG) after [b]four and a half DAYS?

Will the next argument be that the local and state authorities in Louisiana AND Mississippi both screwed up? What WILL be the next argument used to defend their hero by those who see any criticism of any of his actions, no matter how flawed, as a purely political attack that demands an immediate purely political counterattack?

Despite all excuses given thus far, and what I'm sure are some interesting ones yet to be contrived (like, providing food and water for thousands of disaster victims during a state of emergency is the responsibility of the States and not FEMA), it's the Federal government that screwed up.

It's FEMA that screwed up.

It's the DHS that screwed up.

The Bush administration screwed up. There's absolutely no need to be partisan to believe this, though it's quite necessary for pretending to believe otherwise.

Which direction should accountability flow - up, or down?
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post #253 of 288
Thank God for Lt. Gen. Honore disproving all of the bullshit about it being too unsafe to bring in aid.
post #254 of 288
That's another fine rant. Don't blame me for the facts that come out. I didn't make them up.

Resposibility starts on the local leven and then goes up. Bush can't be everywhere or directly responsible for everything.

Mississippi was hammered even harder that NOLA was and the distruction is even more severe. They are in almost as dire a situation as NOLA.

I don't know why you are so deturmined to blame Bush for everything. But, hey! Go right ahead, if you need to make up a boogieman. That's your call.
post #255 of 288
oh yeah, the coast guard has rescued 100 persons per hour since they could fly in.

There has never been any time that people were'nt helping. It just was not enough.
post #256 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
this bandwagon stalled. Time for a new one.

Yeah, and possibly, the furthest away you can get from PO.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #257 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
That's another fine rant.

I will take that to mean that you didn't read any of it, since absolutely none of your points below do anything to refute what I said.

Why won't you respond to what I actually typed? Because you cannot, maybe?
Quote:
Resposibility starts on the local leven and then goes up.

What is that supposed to mean, exactly? That it's the state and local government's responsibility to provide food and water after a catastrophic disaster? Interesting theory, but it's negated by at least the last 40 years of disaster relief policy and action.


Quote:
Bush can't be everywhere or directly responsible for everything.

In other words, if his administration screwed up, it's the fault of the people that he appointed and supervises, and he himself shall remain completely blameless.

Got it.

Quote:
I don't know why you are so deturmined to blame Bush for everything.

I'm not.
I am, however, not shy about pointing out mistakes when he makes them. But hey, It's hardly MY fault that I have so many to choose from, is it?

I don't know why you are so "deturmined" to instantly deny any criticism of Bush and turn it into a nasty partisan battle while ignoring the facts.

Oh wait - maybe I do. Something about taking blind partisanship to the point of hatefulness.
Quote:
But, hey! Go right ahead, if you need to make up a boogieman. That's your call.


Criticism of the actions of the Bush administration (which is coming from everywhere in both parties right now) = "making up a boogieman" - now THERE'S some impressive logic.
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post #258 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Bla bla bla

Look, you guys have clearly chosen your mark. Everyone here knows that.
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Criticism of the actions of the Bush administration (which is coming from everywhere in both parties right now) = "making up a boogieman" - now THERE'S some impressive logic.

I can't remember a thread that does not include:

Bush lied.
Bush is a murderer.
Bush id evil.
Bush doesn't care about (insert race here).

...or some kind of illusion to one or all of the above.

Now, I call that something way beyond criticism. It's more like compulsive slander.

Now, if your definition of criticism includes that, then you clearly enjoy the most liberal use of the language.
post #259 of 288
So you want us to behave like the Houyhnhnms in Gullivers Travels, right? When we hear, listen to, are witnesses of Bush's constant lies, we don't actually say 'Bush lied' (because that would be 'too much criticism') - we say 'Bush said something that does not pertain to the truth as established by intelligent desi.. er, science'.

Houyhnhnms would use such definitions because they actually didn't know what it means to Lie. We, on the other hand, know that perfectly fine and you can be sure that we will use it anytime and anywhere we see him lying.

Aight, homeboy?
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #260 of 288
Naples, the only illusions here are your own.

Yuor typeos are prettey funney sometiems!!!
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post #261 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Look, you guys have clearly chosen your mark. Everyone here knows that.
I can't remember a thread that does not include:

Bush lied.
Bush is a murderer.
Bush id evil.
Bush doesn't care about (insert race here).

...or some kind of illusion to one or all of the above.

Now, I call that something way beyond criticism. It's more like compulsive slander.

Now, if your definition of criticism includes that, then you clearly enjoy the most liberal use of the language.

You clearly only want to continue the same idiotic little game that keeps you coming back to Apploutsider . . . you take your little side, pretend that that's all it is, just standing up for your side and that's all that has happened . . . .

Why don't you go away?

reread this thread, excepting your posts and the reactions to them: there is a cumulative and fairly well reasoned set of reasons why much of what unfolded infront of our eyes, slowly like a terrible nightmare, has been the result of, not just Bush, but the political/economic ideology which motivates he and his Administration . . . the set of basic misunderstandings with regards to the fundamentals of civilization, infrastructure, preparedness etc etc.
and, more specifically, why the leadership that has been exhibited has completely completely FAILED at what it has touted as being its biggest strength: namely security and preparedness for citizens of this country in times of catastrophe . . .

I am not going to re-iterate every nuance of the very real truth that has reared its head regarding the delusions of the contemporary conservative frame of mind as exhibited by this administration and you . . it has been shown clearly throughout this thread, I will say one thing, and I think you Should consider this:

General Honore is a leader, sure much of it is the work of the Press that is desperately searching for a leader in the vacuume, but another thing that differentiates real leadership from failure of leadership, is that things get done as if all the people in subordinate roles didn't even have time enough to think about them before they started to get things done.

Bush has failed in very important ways now and in the past to get important things done, to get things done in the manner I mention above with Gen Honore.

And in every case where failure of leadership could possibly be the charge- Bush, or his direct administration, has blamed someone else, someone subordinate to him or his admin: Talent, the FBI, Bad Intel agents, Enlisted men and women for toturing . . .

Bush says it is unacceptable . . . maybe it really is unacceptable. Maye he should regard the intertwining collusion of factors that have built up to this utter failure?!?! But he won't because he is too complicit with those factors.

BTW
Do you think that Gen Honore blames the soldiers under his watch when something goes completely wrong:?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #262 of 288
So now you can't talk about the subject at hand, so you bring up things that you claim get repeated endlessly in OTHER threads?

Got it.

Tell you what - if you can find and quote a single post I've ever made here that says "Bush is a Murderer" or "Bush id evil", I'll ask a mod to temp ban me for a week.

I'll even spot you the typo on the second one
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post #263 of 288
Quote:
"Bush id evil"

This is arguably a formidable challenge for Naples.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #264 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
So now you can't talk about the subject at hand, so you bring up things that you claim get repeated endlessly in OTHER threads?

Got it.

Tell you what - if you can find and quote a single post I've ever made here that says "Bush is a Murderer" or "Bush id evil", I'll ask a mod to temp ban me for a week.

I'll even spot you the typo on the second one

So when someone says or elludes to those things, you immediately separate yourself from the crowd?

post #265 of 288
Elludes? We got a new word being coined here friends!

Bug Report To Apple: Fix the damn real-time OS-wide spellchecker!
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #266 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Elludes? We got a new word being coined here friends!

Bug Report To Apple: Fix the damn real-time OS-wide spellchecker!

Mine stopped working so that and my crappy typing skills make for those things. Sorry.
post #267 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
So when someone says or elludes to those things, you immediately separate yourself from the crowd?


I was not aware that my failure to do so, means that I agree with everything said here.

Not that that has anything whatsoever to do with the topic of whether or not Bush should take any blame for what is nearly universally acknowledged as a major fuck-up by the federal government in responding so slowly to this incredible disaster, though.

Keep grasping, though- if you get enough straws, you can stay afloat for several days!
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post #268 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
I was not aware that my failure to do so, means that I agree with everything said here.

I cannot remember a time when you departed from the mainstream here.

I'm not sure what that means exactly, but it certainly doesn't match the picture you painted by that statement.

That's cool though.
post #269 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I cannot remember a time when you departed from the mainstream here.

I'm not sure what that means exactly, but it certainly doesn't match the picture you painted by that statement.

That's cool though.

No worries... at least you're NOT sure for a change. Interesting that it refers to one of your own statements, though.

I'm sure that, in your own mind, you've "made your point" (whatever that might be) already. So, maybe we can get back to the topic, if you could answer some of my points, instead of attempting to define my political views by damning me for failure to post my disagreement with the statements of others.

Hey, there are some big words and long sentences in pflam's post - are you up to answering that with something besides a sarcastic one-liner?
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post #270 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
No worries... at least you're NOT sure for a change. Interesting that it refers to one of your own statements, though.

I'm sure that, in your own mind, you've "made your point" (whatever that might be) already. So, maybe we can get back to the topic, if you could answer some of my points, instead of attempting to define my political views by damning me for failure to post my disagreement with the statements of others.

Hey, there are some big words and long sentences in pflam's post - are you up to answering that with something besides a sarcastic one-liner?

pflam's post just someone typing to see himself type. I will sum up what he said:

your arguments are stupid. Go Away.

Bush is an idiot and it's all his fault.

BTW
Do you think that Gen Honore blames the soldiers under his watch when something goes completely wrong:?

So to answer his question - no he accepts resposibility and punishes those that screwed the pooch.
post #271 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Same old straw man.

Nobody here is saying Bush is evil. We are saying his administration is incompetent, and it's all the more galling given his "war president, I'll save you from the terrists" stance.

He appointed a guy with no relevant experience whatsoever to head up FEMA. That's not evil, it's stupid and willfully short-sighted.

4 years after 9/11 and this is the best we can do when faced with a crisis in a major American city?

But I guess planning and preparing is hard work, so, as always: It's Not His Fault.

Actually Adda, I agree with your main points.

Up here in Canuckland, most conservatives have been trying to get rid of so-called 'patronage' appointments for a long time. Appointing someone with no relevant background to head FEMA is stupid, and grounds for criticism.

Absorbing FEMA into Homeland Security also looks like a mistake - albeit with 20/20 hindsight.

But from the time the crisis began, the criticisms of Bush cranked into high gear - and we've all seen this before at AI many, many times.

Why not hold FEMA more accountable? Why not ask why New Orleans Police found themselves outmanned and outgunned and unable to communicate with each other? Shouldn't states equip police departments with a certain number of satellite phones when a situation like a Cat 5 hurricane is approaching?

Bush is not some all-knowing dictator. He can't effectively run a whole government by himself. He doesn't actually make decisions like the funding of levee construction personally.

The buck does stop at his desk, but if your side kept your criticisms a bit more balanced and grounded, you'd win more people to your side.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #272 of 288
Quote:
Bush is not some all-knowing dictator. He can't effectively run a whole government by himself. He doesn't actually make decisions like the funding of levee construction personally.

Then why was he claiming that he can run a government effectively? Mind you, to "run a government" means to have control over people that need to make the apparatus work.

If you can't control that apparatus, as is the claim here, you're in the wrong place.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #273 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Actually Adda, I agree with your main points.

Up here in Canuckland, most conservatives have been trying to get rid of so-called 'patronage' appointments for a long time. Appointing someone with no relevant background to head FEMA is stupid, and grounds for criticism.

Absorbing FEMA into Homeland Security also looks like a mistake - albeit with 20/20 hindsight.

But from the time the crisis began, the criticisms of Bush cranked into high gear - and we've all seen this before at AI many, many times.

Why not hold FEMA more accountable? Why not ask why New Orleans Police found themselves outmanned and outgunned and unable to communicate with each other? Shouldn't states equip police departments with a certain number of satellite phones when a situation like a Cat 5 hurricane is approaching?

Bush is not some all-knowing dictator. He can't effectively run a whole government by himself. He doesn't actually make decisions like the funding of levee construction personally.

The buck does stop at his desk, but if your side kept your criticisms a bit more balanced and grounded, you'd win more people to your side.

This is the far best take on the situation I have seen. Kudos to the canadian.
"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush
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post #274 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I will sum up what [pfflam] said:

A certain aphorism usually attributed to Mark Twain comes to mind.

You should carefully reconsider this part. It's really quite good:

Quote:
reread this thread, excepting your posts and the reactions to them: there is a cumulative and fairly well reasoned set of reasons why much of what unfolded infront of our eyes, slowly like a terrible nightmare, has been the result of, not just Bush, but the political/economic ideology which motivates he and his Administration . . . the set of basic misunderstandings with regards to the fundamentals of civilization, infrastructure, preparedness etc etc.
and, more specifically, why the leadership that has been exhibited has completely completely FAILED at what it has touted as being its biggest strength: namely security and preparedness for citizens of this country in times of catastrophe . . .
post #275 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
So to answer his question - no he accepts resposibility and punishes those that screwed the pooch.

Sounds exactly like what people (except you) are wanting Bush to do.

Or is he above all that for some reason?
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post #276 of 288
dbl post
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post #277 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Sounds exactly like what people (except you) are wanting Bush to do.

Or is he above all that for some reason?

Really, then I'm all for that.

Just wondering where the post was that said or implied that...

Besides who says Bush is not accepting the responsibility. I assume that's a part of leadership.
post #278 of 288
Accepting the responsibility usually means fixing what has not worked. That's his administration, with him, in charge.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #279 of 288
I don't know how you are choosing to define it, but to me, "accepting responsibility" means making a public statement along the lines of "mistakes were made, we're sorry, and here's what we're going to do to make sure it never happens again."

Bonus points if he uses the pronoun "I" instead of the royal "we"
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post #280 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
I don't know how you are choosing to define it, but to me, "accepting responsibility" means making a public statement along the lines of "mistakes were made, we're sorry, and here's what we're going to do to make sure it never happens again."

Bonus points if he uses the pronoun "I" instead of the royal "we"

Is that what you REALLY expect right in the middle of the crisis?
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