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Bush cuts his vacation SHORT! LOL! - Page 3

post #81 of 288
NOTICE TO ALL NEOSOCS:

WE MUST PIN THIS ON BUSH AT ALL COSTS.

If we say it enough it will become part of our reality.

Repeat after me - "Bush cut spending to the poor for the war"

- George Soros
post #82 of 288
Maybe you missed that the most outspoken person about the funding issue is a former southern republican congressman who headed the army corps of engineers.

Of course, the immaturity and inaccuracy of your post isn't surprising considering your earlier comments in this thread:
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
People can live wherever they want, I just don't think that everyone else should bail them out and pay to rebuild because they chose unwisely.

Coastal hurricane, low lying flood, and earthquake prone areas should be build at your own risk.

Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I say Bush made the right decision and should further cut off Federal funding for that city. If they can't keep the waters out then the waters should win, as they are doing now.

How long should the rest of America pay for that mistake?

Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Would they be suffering if NO was just a delta as it should be?

It's quite sickening that during a disaster of this magnitude you've demonstrated both your heartlessness toward mass death and human suffering as well as your total lack of understanding about how modern civilation works.
post #83 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
People can live wherever they want, I just don't think that everyone else should bail them out and pay to rebuild because they chose unwisely.

Coastal hurricane, low lying flood, and earthquake prone areas should be build at your own risk.

quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
I say Bush made the right decision and should further cut off Federal funding for that city. If they can't keep the waters out then the waters should win, as they are doing now.

How long should the rest of America pay for that mistake?

quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
Would they be suffering if NO was just a delta as it should be?

Anton LaVey would have been so proud and supportive of those remarks.
post #84 of 288
Before you blame the current administration, I would compare attendance at City Council meetings to, say 'participation' at the Casinos, vomit parties in the French Quarter, or attendance at Saints homegames. This might be a guage of how concerned the city's residents were over the matter of levee improvment.

How many people who spent last night on an overpass ever saw the inside of the City Council's chambers? How many saw the inside of the Superdome before last weekend?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #85 of 288
President Bush made the following comment today, "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."

Jesus Effing Christ! EVERYONE was anticipating a breach of the levees before Katrina hit. In Katrina had continued along its original path and hit at a full Category 5, the levees would have instantly failed.

Honestly, did Bush not know this?

Or does he have absolutely no qualms lying this that he doesn't give it a second thought?

And which is worse?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #86 of 288
Chicago Tribune

"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget.

Apprently Parker is yet another liberal in Republican clothing.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #87 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Before you blame the current administration, I would compare attendance at City Council meetings to, say 'participation' at the Casinos, vomit parties in the French Quarter, or attendance at Saints homegames. This might be a guage of how concerned the city's residents were over the matter of levee improvment.

How many people who spent last night on an overpass ever saw the inside of the City Council's chambers? How many saw the inside of the Superdome before last weekend?

More of the same NO residents deserved what they got.

Which, btw, is complete bullshit. The Army Corps of Engineers built the lovely levees, and the national government laid the ground work for rolling under wetlands and barrier Islands. Why did they do this, you may ask. Well, NO is the East Coast's largest port. Its economic sucess is tied to the economic sucess of broad swaths of the US. The oil offshore feeds the US, the oil coming into NO from the mideast feeds our refineries, the National interests lie with maintaining that city, its levee systems, and its population, because without any of those things, we'd be terminally fucked. NO is the ideal port city, it lies below the appalachain mountains and can take goods from and deliver goods to manufacturing and population centers on either side of that continental divide. In addition, it just so happens to be the seaward terminus of our largest cargo carrying river in the US.

So NaplesX and dmz who are laughing at the "self-inflicted" misery of half a million -plus people, fuck off.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #88 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
People can live wherever they want, I just don't think that everyone else should bail them out and pay to rebuild because they chose unwisely.

Coastal hurricane, low lying flood, and earthquake prone areas should be build at your own risk.

Instead you and I pay for security for those that build in unsecure areas.

naples, you have sunk to a new low. seriously, you call yourself a christian, but you are scum. mods, ban me if you must, but i am calling a piece of crap for what it is now.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #89 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
More of the same NO residents deserved what they got.

Which, btw, is complete bullshit. The Army Corps of Engineers built the lovely levees, and the national government laid the ground work for rolling under wetlands and barrier Islands. Why did they do this, you may ask. Well, NO is the East Coast's largest port. Its economic sucess is tied to the economic sucess of broad swaths of the US. The oil offshore feeds the US, the oil coming into NO from the mideast feeds our refineries, the National interests lie with maintaining that city, its levee systems, and its population, because without any of those things, we'd be terminally fucked. NO is the ideal port city, it lies below the appalachain mountains and can take goods from and deliver goods to manufacturing and population centers on either side of that continental divide. In addition, it just so happens to be the seaward terminus of our largest cargo carrying river in the US.

So NaplesX and dmz who are laughing at the "self-inflicted" misery of half a million -plus people, fuck off.

Yup.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #90 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
More of the same NO residents deserved what they got.

Which, btw, is complete bullshit. The Army Corps of Engineers built the lovely levees, and the national government laid the ground work for rolling under wetlands and barrier Islands. Why did they do this, you may ask. Well, NO is the East Coast's largest port. Its economic sucess is tied to the economic sucess of broad swaths of the US. The oil offshore feeds the US, the oil coming into NO from the mideast feeds our refineries, the National interests lie with maintaining that city, its levee systems, and its population, because without any of those things, we'd be terminally fucked. NO is the ideal port city, it lies below the appalachain mountains and can take goods from and deliver goods to manufacturing and population centers on either side of that continental divide. In addition, it just so happens to be the seaward terminus of our largest cargo carrying river in the US.

So NaplesX and dmz who are laughing at the "self-inflicted" misery of half a million -plus people, fuck off.

You're dodging the issue, and you're not doing a very good job at it.

Out of one side of your mouth you want to blame the administration, but out of the other you can't quite bring yourself to admit that, in a representative democracy, that the citizens ultimately bear the onus for change; and it is apparent that improved levees were of little concern to the local establishment -- compared to other interests, Casinos, Pro Sports, etc. A non sequitur wrapped in agitprop. There is no denying this, this catastrophe has been predicted for years, been the subject of articles from everything from The Wall Street Journal to Popular Mechanics, and nothing has been done.

Childish thinking, foolishness, profanity, and an apparent limitless need to slander/liable the current administration is no substitute for acting and thinking as an adult.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #91 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
naples, you have sunk to a new low. seriously, you call yourself a christian, but you are scum. mods, ban me if you must, but i am calling a piece of crap for what it is now.

Absolutely correct.

I'm not a religeous man. But what I'm seeing on TV, the magnitude of destruction, the plight of those stranded, my heart breaks for these poor people. My heart cries for the loss.

New Orleans was a national treasure. And now its gone.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #92 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
You're dodging the issue, and you're not doing a very good job at it.

Out of one side of your mouth you want to blame the administration, but out of the other you can't quite bring yourself to admit that, in a representative democracy, that the citizens ultimately bear the onus for change; and it is apparent that improved levees were of little concern to the local establishment -- compared to other interests, Casinos, Pro Sports, etc. A non sequitur wrapped in agitprop. There is no denying this, this catastrophe has been predicted for years, been the subject of articles from everything from The Wall Street Journal to Popular Mechanics, and nothing has been done.

Childish thinking, foolishness, profanity, and an apparent limitless need to slander/liable the current administration is no substitute for acting and thinking as an adult.

The federal government is responsible for FEMA and has been responsible for the New Orleans levees.
post #93 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
You're dodging the issue, and you're not doing a very good job at it.

Out of one side of your mouth you want to blame the administration, but out of the other you can't quite bring yourself to admit that, in a representative democracy, that the citizens ultimately bear the onus for change; and it is apparent that improved levees were of little concern to the local establishment -- compared to other interests, Casinos, Pro Sports, etc. A non sequitur wrapped in agitprop. There is no denying this, this catastrophe has been predicted for years, been the subject of articles from everything from The Wall Street Journal to Popular Mechanics, and nothing has been done.

Childish thinking, foolishness, profanity, and an apparent limitless need to slander/liable the current administration is no substitute for acting and thinking as an adult.

Excuse me? Did I ever accuse the administration of anything with regard to this fatal engineering error?

The only resonable blame is that the administration was clearly down playing the risk of a disaster of this proportion in NO, and by down playing it, they created a situation in which it could not be reasonably solved. Had the national government admitted their was a significant risk to NO in the event of a disaster like this, don't you think the local government and citizens would have been more apt to find funding to save the city. Instead, the national government went so far as to cut funding to the national entity which is responsible for those very levees, thus indicating to any reasonable person that there was nothing to fear.

Citizens for better or worse accept the FUD from the national government over the FUD in national geographic and scientific america.

So, dmz, you are wrong once again.
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #94 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
The federal government is responsible for FEMA and has been responsible for the New Orleans levees.

Abstracting this won't help either -- we are the government.

If the average attendance of the Superdome were in contact with their representatives, expressing a desire for these improvements, it would have been done a long time ago. But bread and Circuses (a phrase particularly suited for New Orleans) seems to have prevailed;

You guys need to admit you were senselessly out of line by implying that the current administration is 'responsible' for this disaster.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #95 of 288
dmz and Naples: proving that self-proclaimed "Christians" can be ignorant, smug, hypocritical pieces of shit.

I honestly hope that the next time a natural disaster strikes the US, that you find yourself wondering for days if your loved ones are alive, or maybe get to see them floating by face-down while you desperately cling to scraps of what used to be your house.
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post #96 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Excuse me? Did I ever accuse the administration of anything with regard to this fatal engineering error?

The only resonable blame is that the administration was clearly down playing the risk of a disaster of this proportion in NO, and by down playing it, they created a situation in which it could not be reasonably solved. Had the national government admitted their was a significant risk to NO in the event of a disaster like this, don't you think the local government and citizens would have been more apt to find funding to save the city. Instead, the national government went so far as to cut funding to the national entity which is responsible for those very levees, thus indicating to any reasonable person that there was nothing to fear.

Citizens for better or worse accept the FUD from the national government over the FUD in national geographic and scientific america.

So, dmz, you are wrong once again.

-Like I just commented to Brussel, if the average attendance of the Superdome were expressing a desire for better levees, this would have never happened -- the government is just an extension of the myopia of the general public.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #97 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
dmz: proving that self-proclaimed "Christians" can be ignorant, smug, hypocritical pieces of shit.

Please fuck off and die.

Admit it: you went for another cheap shot towards the current administration, and you got busted.

Profanity wont help you.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #98 of 288
before this thread gets locked, which seems inevitable thanks to the blood-raging impetus of the ignorant hatebot known as naplesx:

for those saying that new orleans was more concerned with beer swilling than fixing its problems, that's big talk from those not from here. put the looters out of your mind from the media reports for a second, there are SO MANY GOOD CHRISTIAN CLEAN LIVING TRUE HEARTED FOLKS DEVASTATED BY THIS. they lived paycheck to paycheck, and their families were here for generations doing great things for the area. the beer swilling was done, truth be told, by the tourists who would come here once a year to defile the city and leave. and there are always miscreants who look for an opporunity and unfortunately are now armed in the streets, and they know they have the police on their heels and terribly malnourished and fatigued. i love those who think that the poor can always pull themselves out of sh!t. and you know what, i dare you to become a public official of an area that has so many problems, and deal with it like spinning plates. spend too much time and energy on crime and violence, you neglect the poor and class differential. spend too much time on the planning and infrastructure, and the crime skyrockets behind your back. (edit: and this utterly ignores the fact that you can SAY complain to your public officials, but the officials have been so corrupt for so long, the only way anythign ever got done was to be just as corrupt. i am not exaggerating.) it's fact. etc. etc. new orleans has had a difficult downward slope for a long time, and i envy no one, from the president on down, from having to right this ship.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #99 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Abstracting this won't help either -- we are the government.

If the average attendance of the Superdome were in contact with their representatives, expressing a desire for these improvements, it would have been done a long time ago. But bread and Circuses (a phrase particularly suited for New Orleans) seems to have prevailed;

You guys need to admit you were senselessly out of line by implying that the current administration is 'responsible' for this disaster.

According to the articles linked in this thread, the people responsible for the levees predicted this last year, and had requested but were denied funding by the federal government to protect the city. You're right though, I do blame ourselves. It is our fault for electing the people we elect. Apparently getting rid of the "Death Tax" is the most important thing facing our nation right now. But part of democracy is holding our government responsible when they screw up. They screwed up, and they should be held responsible.
post #100 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
-Like I just commented to Brussel, if the average attendance of the Superdome were expressing a desire for better levees, this would have never happened -- the government is just an extension of the myopia of the general public.

[surfer]Dude, that is like litterally the weakest point you could ever attempt to make.[/surfer]


Not only is it weak, it is patently false. The individuals who represent us in Congress have access to information that never reaches the hands of the public, either because it is confidential or because no one in the public knows to look. Worse yet, most of the information the adminstration gets never reaches the public, so even if there was an army corps report indicating that the levees were going to fail, these people in the superdome would never know even though you claim they are the government.

They aren't the government. We aren't the government. We elect the government and it sustains itself.
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post #101 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Admit it: you went for another cheap shot towards the current administration, and you got busted.

Profanity wont help you.

Admit it - you are so anxious to defend the current administration (and its cutting of funds designed specifically to lessen the impact of tragedies such as this) at all costs, that you will ignore any semblance of compassion, and you've been very busted on it.

Yeah, it's all the fault of the people of NOLA because they have a domed stadium.....

Fucking scumbag.
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post #102 of 288
http://www.lsureveille.com/vnews/dis...e?template=pda

This article on July of this year shows a better picture than the knee-jerk ABB crowd like to see.

Quote:
Hurricane Betsy in 1965 was the last storm to cause catastrophic damage in the region, but New Orleans was spared considerable destruction. But thanks to significant coastal erosion and obnoxious rates of subsidence that local geologists call exciting, New Orleans is now about 20 miles closer to the Gulf of Mexico, according to Windell Curolle, the general manager of the South Lafourche Levee District. Our barrier islands are skinny little pushovers that are hardly effective in reducing waves or in stunting storm development. In 1995, Hurricane Danny was just a tropical storm before it reached our barrier islands. It crossed the islands and strengthened to full-fledged hurricane status, and became the first storm in recorded history to strengthen after passing a barrier island chain.

In light of New Orleans barely adequate hurricane protection and our shamefully inferior natural protection, the cities and parishes of southeastern Louisiana have adopted a more instinctive plan: run like hell. This was an informal plan until last year, when Ivan threw our transportation system into the 1850s. The usual one-hour trip from New Orleans to Baton Rouge took 12 hours. Thanks to lessons learned from Ivan, we now have the Louisiana Citizen Awareness and Disaster Evacuation Guide, which advises citizens that they might be asked to leave up to 72 hours before a storm comes. Three whole days. But people are willing to do it, because even though the chance of a direct hit might be minimal, the chance of catastrophic damage from a direct hit is significant. Jefferson Parish called for a voluntary evacuation last Friday when Dennis had only a 13 percent chance of coming within 75 miles of New Orleans.
...
With four named storms in the Gulf of Mexico this year already, and a fifth, Emily, positioned to follow Dennis path, taking twenty years to build a new protection system might very well be throwing caution to the winds. Pensacola can only be hit so many times. Sooner or later, a substantial hurricane will come our way. We have plans to get the people out. But the potential loss of infrastructure and the subsequent loss of business and tourism in New Orleans is an economic hit Louisiana can ill afford. Like the gaming tables at Harrahs in downtown New Orleans, if you gamble long enough you will eventually lose everything. Though the chance of a catastrophic hurricane might seem small, how far can we afford to push our luck?
post #103 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
According to the articles linked in this thread, the people responsible for the levees predicted this last year, and had requested but were denied funding by the federal government to protect the city. You're right though, I do blame ourselves. It is our fault for electing the people we elect. Apparently getting rid of the "Death Tax" is the most important thing facing our nation right now.

I dunno, Brussel, it was either Popular Science, or Popular Mechanics had the 4-color doomdays article on this. I remember reading that probably 10 years (?) ago. This has been on the back of alot of people's minds for quite awhile.

I'll bet they get those improvements now.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #104 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
You guys need to admit you were senselessly out of line by implying that the current administration is 'responsible' for this disaster.

No one says they are 'responsible' for it - just that they CONTRIBUTED to its severity, through the cutting of funding.

But according to you, we are blaming George Bush and his secret hurricane-making machine, for this disaster....

You guys need to admit that defending the almighty Republican party from any suggestion of less-than-perfection, is more important to you than your self-proclaimed Christian sense of compassion - your poor attempts at donning a beard notwithstanding.

Of course, if anyone here tried to blame it on Clinton, you'd jump in with sycophantic agreement.
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post #105 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
[surfer]Dude, that is like litterally the weakest point you could ever attempt to make.[/surfer]


Not only is it weak, it is patently false. The individuals who represent us in Congress have access to information that never reaches the hands of the public, either because it is confidential or because no one in the public knows to look. Worse yet, most of the information the adminstration gets never reaches the public, so even if there was an army corps report indicating that the levees were going to fail, these people in the superdome would never know even though you claim they are the government.

They aren't the government. We aren't the government. We elect the government and it sustains itself.

No it's not weak, Cities have consultants that go from city to city, that do nothing but mine federal highway 'grants'. They know the ropes, they write the proposals, and they get that money for paritcular projects. Alright, you say this is pruely Federal? The city can't touch a levee without Federal dollars or the blessing of the Corps of Engineers? Maybe, but I doubt it.

I would imagine funding this sort of project is completely analogous to getting a new bridge, new airport, etc. out of the governement.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #106 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
No it's not weak, Cities have consultants that go from city to city, that do nothing but mine federal highway 'grants'. They know the ropes, they write the proposals, and they get that money for paritcular projects. Alright, you say this is pruely Federal? The city can't touch a levee without Federal dollars or the blessing of the Corps of Engineers? Maybe, but I doubt it.

I would imagine funding this sort of project is completely analogous to getting a new bridge, new airport, etc. out of the governement.

It ain't a road, babe, and it wasn't and isn't going to be on the order of hundreds of millions of dollars to fix... try billions. The government clearly didn't want to do anything about it, otherwise they would have funded the army corps...

Again, modernizing a levee system is expensive and beyond the reach of almost all cities in the US.

Oh, and remember highway dollars were cut off from NO for a long time because of their 18 years drinking age, which I have always found to be an abuse of federal power.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #107 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by NaplesX
http://www.lsureveille.com/vnews/dis...e?template=pda

This article on July of this year shows a better picture than the knee-jerk ABB crowd like to see.

What the hell was that supposed to prove?

Beyond the fact that some people will do anything to put someone with an 'ologist' on the end of their job title in a bad light?
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post #108 of 288
--the culprit?

Perhaps it isn't one person or group of people, but it is an ideology . . . something that can be summed up with this phrase:

"Get Big Government off my back"

Yeah . . . get that infrastructure-building, security providing, education giving Monster off of our backs . . . they're stealing my precious tax dollars!!

and another thig to this inane Naples point: sure, it might take a long time . . . so?
I guess that means they should never start, right?

& why is it that the term 'SocioPathological', or 'socioPath' seems to always come up with regards to you?
Maybe you better lay off of the ideology and the identifying with one side or the other, or protecting this-that-and-the-other stupid ass political perspective, and look inward and out, towards your fellow humans -!!!. . .
cause as far as I can tell, if you don't you'll stay full of the dispicable shiit that's obviosly inside you
. . . and that is a form of suffering that you could probably spare yourself . . . and the world too . .

(and, BTW, is a form from which we all also suffer, to a degree)
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #109 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
--the culprit?

Perhaps it isn't one person or group of people, but it is an ideology . . . something that can be summed up with this phrase:

"Get Big Government off my back"

Yeah . . . get that infrastructure-building, security providing, education giving Monster off of our backs . . . they're stealing my precious tax dollars!!

and another thig to this inane Naples point: sure, it might take a long time . . . so?
I guess that means they should never start, right?

& why is it that the term 'SocioPathological', or 'socioPath' seems to always come up with regards to you?
Maybe you better lay off of the ideology and the identifying with one side or the other, or protecting this-that-and-the-other stupid ass political perspective, and look inward and out, towards your fellow humans -!!!. . .
cause as far as I can tell, if you don't you'll stay full of the dispicable shiit that's obviosly inside you
. . . and that is a form of suffering that you could probably spare yourself . . . and the world too . .

(and, BTW, is a form from which we all also suffer, to a degree)

Naples feels a need to protect the president at all costs. To him the president is above all critique. He does nothing wrong. He is responsible for nothing.

Even in the face of catastrophe.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #110 of 288
Just one simple damn question?

Where are the National Gaurd troops?

Why are peole massed in teh Convention Center still not getting any help? Why do I have to hear a reporter talking on a phone from the center saying that many people are dying right in front of him and the only people he sees with any sort of official capacity are a few trucks full of armed men zooming around preventing looters!!

Forget the damn looters!!!
Everybody who has anything should let it go (Qallmart, stores etc) and concentrate on getting people out and fed, getting them water and medicine!!!

Where are the National Gaurd? Where are the NG Amphibious vehicles? all-terrain vehicles? Why are they so ill prepared for this sort of thing?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #111 of 288
These questions are totally righteous IMO. The reality is that a natural disaster or terrorist attack could occur at any time. It is not an act of Bush-hating to question how this went so badly and to try to plan so that improvements are made in the future.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #112 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Why are peole massed in teh Convention Center still not getting any help?

I think the first busloads have already getting to the Astrodome.

Also, let's not forget the corrupt state of New Orleans's political culutre when we start the blame game.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #113 of 288
This is EXACTLY what the Fuucking National Gaurd is for!!!!!!!!!


There should be plenty available for this sort of thing!!

They are not meant to be used abroad and certainly not for the stretched tours and doubled tours that they are being forced into doing . . .

I'm not saying this to slam Bush, Mr 'Security President', BUT . . . if he is to blame then we should all, perhaps begin the slam!!!

Something stinks in NO!! besides the death . . .

The fact that the most 'advanced country on earth' can not manage an emergency on this scale, when, for the past 4+ years we have been paying lip service to 'security' and 'preparedness' is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!!!

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #114 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I think the first busloads have already getting to the Astrodome.

Also, let's not forget the corrupt state of New Orleans's political culutre when we start the blame game.

Louisiana Republicans right?
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #115 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Just one simple damn question?
Where are the National Gaurd troops?

Simple answer:

The local National Guard, and their equipment, are in Iraq.

Who knows how much of this could have been avoided, if the local Guardsmen who are familiar with the city, and their equipment including high-water vehicles, had been available for immediate mobilization?
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post #116 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
This is EXACTLY what the Fuucking National Gaurd is for!!!!!!!!!


There should be plenty available for this sort of thing!!

They are not meant to be used abroad and certainly not for the stretched tours and doubled tours that they are being forced into doing . . .

I'm not saying this to slam Bush, Mr 'Security President', BUT . . . if he is to blame then we should all, perhaps begin the slam!!!

Something stinks in NO!! besides the death . . .

The fact that the most 'advanced country on earth' can not manage an emergency on this scale, when, for the past 4+ years we have been paying lip service to 'security' and 'preparedness' is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!!!


DING DING DING!
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #117 of 288
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
This is EXACTLY what the Fuucking National Gaurd is for!!!!!!!!!


There should be plenty available for this sort of thing!!

They are not meant to be used abroad and certainly not for the stretched tours and doubled tours that they are being forced into doing . . .

I'm not saying this to slam Bush, Mr 'Security President', BUT . . . if he is to blame then we should all, perhaps begin the slam!!!

Something stinks in NO!! besides the death . . .

The fact that the most 'advanced country on earth' can not manage an emergency on this scale, when, for the past 4+ years we have been paying lip service to 'security' and 'preparedness' is ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!!!


pfflam, I think you're losing it.

Here's some of the response:


Army News Service:
More than 5,000 National Guard troops have been activated in four states to assist with recovery operations as 140-mph winds of Hurricane Katrina strike the Gulf Coast.

The Army Corps of Engineers is anticipating potential requirements to pump water out of New Orleans, much of which is below sea level and protected by a system of dikes, levees and pumps.

First U.S. Army activated its 24-hour Crisis Action Team Aug. 28 and sent defense coordinating elements to three states. These elements help U.S. Northern Command coordinate DoD support to civil authorities as requested by the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

About 780 National Guard troops were called to state active duty in Florida to help distribute ice and water and to man Logistic Support Sites in Miami and Homestead, Fla. At least six Florida residents were reportedly killed in the storm and about half a million were without electric power.

Mississippi activated 853 National Guard troops and has staged them at Camp Shelby, Miss., for the recovery operation. The Soldiers are ready to perform debris removal, security and logistical support, officials said.

Alabama has activated about 160 National Guard troops who are helping sandbag critical coastal areas and have prepositioned generators and trucks for the hurricane recovery operation. The Alabama National Guard activated its Emergency Operations Center in Mobile with support from the 711th Signal Battalion and the 226th Area Support Group, state officials said. They said Army and Air National Guard troops are also monitoring the hurricane and emergency response operations from the Guards Joint Operations Center in Montgomery.

"Right now [ed. note: yesterday], First Army is leaning forward and planning for any number of needs the states may have once this hurricane hits," said Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honoré, commanding general, First U.S. Army. "I have been in contact with each of the states adjutant generals and assured them that First Army is ready to help."

"One of the things we learned last year with the series of hurricanes that passed through Florida, was the need for satellite communications," said Col. James Hickey, chief of staff, First U.S. Army. "This storm will likely take out some key communications nodes and cell phones and land lines may not work for some time."

Based on that assessment, First Army is identifying satellite phones and other military communications assets that do not rely on local infrastructure. Food, water and ice are also key resources and the military is planning to help with quick distribution of those supplies in the aftermath of the storm.

Other possible requirements include helicopter support for evacuation, emergency supplies and damage assessments; medical personnel, supplies and equipment to include sanitation expertise; transportation units with the capability to ford high water; watercraft assets for coastal areas; and construction, bridging and utility engineer units.
U.S. Navy:
The amphibious assault ship USS Bataan (LHD 5) and other U.S. Navy assets are making preparations to provide assistance in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, if needed. Bataan is currently underway in the Gulf of Mexico and standing by to provide assistance as needed in hurricane-affected areas.

Based in Norfolk, Bataan is underway for previously scheduled operations, and will remain in the vicinity of impacted areas until otherwise directed. If called upon, Bataan brings unique humanitarian capabilities to the scene. [ed. note: the Bataan has a 600 bed hospital on board.]

Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron Fifteen (HM-15) embarked three MH-53E helicopters in preparation for possible relief efforts along the Gulf Coast in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The MH-53E Sea Dragon is capable of carrying 55 passengers and 16 tons of cargo 50 nautical miles.
U.S. Coast Guard:
More than 40 Coast Guard aircraft from units along the entire eastern seaboard, along with more than 30 small boats, patrol boats and cutters, are positioning themselves in staging areas around the projected impact area - from Jacksonville, Fla., to Houston - making preparations to conduct immediate post-hurricane search, rescue and humanitarian aid operations, waterway impact assessments and waterway reconstitution operations.

[ed. note: the U.S. Coast Guard has set up a news and information website with rescue reports and photos.]
From the Shreveport Times:
As Hurricane Katrina surged past New Orleans, Louisiana mobilized its soldiers to help, as did Mississippi, Alabama and other southern states. Despite prominent roles in the War on Terror, the states report more than the 50 percent strength mandated for homeland missions. Louisiana has 65 percent of its troops available for state missions; Mississippi, 60 percent; Alabama, 77 percent; and Florida, 74 percent, Guard officials said.

The Louisiana National Guard had called almost 3,500 of its members to state active duty as of 7 a.m. Monday to help with missions that ranged from aiding law enforcement agencies with traffic control and security to conducting searches and rescues and providing generator support. Guard members conducted security and screening at the emergency shelter at the New Orleans Superdome, and elsewhere helped state police with evacuations.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #118 of 288
Also, I want all you guys to shut up and take a break over at http://www.redcross.org with your credit card.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #119 of 288
Also:

TROOPS ON THE WAY

Nearly 5,000 Louisiana National Guard troops were called to duty and 7,500 more were en route from other states, to be joined by state police from all over the nation, the National Guard said.

An angry Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco told reporters: "We will do what it takes to bring law and order to our area."

"I'm just furious. It's intolerable," she said.

Louisiana wildlife officers said their boat crews were still rescuing 650 people an hour from the flooded city. Thousands waited hours or waded through floodwaters to catch rides out of New Orleans.

Storm survivors in the Superdome began clambering onto 300 buses that were shipping them 350 miles west to another stadium, the Astrodome in Houston.

linky

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #120 of 288
Is it Bush's fault that the NG response hasn't been faster and better?

Quote:
JACKSON BARRACKS -- When members of the Louisiana National Guard left for Iraq in October, they took a lot equipment with them. Dozens of high water vehicles, humvees, refuelers and generators are now abroad, and in the event of a major natural disaster that, could be a problem.
"The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission," said Lt. Colonel Pete Schneider with the LA National Guard.
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