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Uh oh....

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 
So, I don't think anybody would be startled to learn that the average American's grasp of basic scientific facts is not particularly, uh.... keen.

But looking at the results of a 2001 National Science Foundation poll of scientific literacy I have to say I am horrified.

Not real clear astrophysics, or the electromagnetic spectrum, or the relationship of the forces that shape the universe? Fine.

But:

Nearly half (46%) didn't know how long the Earth takes to orbit the sun, given the choice of an hour, a day or a year.

More than half, 52%, didn't know that electrons are smaller than atoms.

55% thought lasers work by focusing sound waves.

And, God help us, fully 25% were of the opinion that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

And this is leaving aside the huge numbers that put man as contemporaneous with dinosaurs and don't, or won't, know that we evolved form earlier species (I figure these figures might be skewed by a kind of "protest" vote that is aware of the prevailing wisdom but rejects it for religious reasons. I'm going to be charitable and assume that that isn't the explanation for thinking the Sun revolves around the Earth).

I know the whole "Americans don't know shit" thing has been done to death, but fuckin' A! This is utterly disgraceful.

I'm guessing you get a better shot at science and tech in the public schools than you do at history or literature, but maybe not?

I definitely don't want to see the national history quiz. Shit, I don't want to see the national "what happened today" quiz.

It's like the whole country are contestants on the Saturday Night Live version of "Jeapordy".
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #2 of 34
<Sean Connery voice>

"No, God help your mother, Alex...as she revolves around my ****!!! Huh Heh Heh Huh..."

</Sean Connery voice>


Seriously though, Americans are bred to be idiots. What did you expect?
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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post #3 of 34
I guess I should add a little bit of real content before I have to run off and get tobacco...

I've quite a few teacher friends, and not one of them hasn't mentioned to me in the last year on how their grading must be 'adjusted' to meet certain 'standards' or their funding will be fucked. Questions are becoming easier and more leading. Answers are pretty much handed out. Kids aren't being challenged to learn *anything*. Quite simply, only those that have a natural curiousity and a predisposition to learn are actually learning.

Thank God for fast food employers.
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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post #4 of 34
hey we're not the smartest but we fight well.





edit: changed punctuation. I "am" American
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #5 of 34
Well I really can't blame our educational system. It has sucked for a couple decades now. High School doesn't prepare people for the real world. Most people don't need to know Algebra and Geometry they need to know basic math with a focus on percentages (calculating APR etc), adding/subtracting multiply/division.

Our education system needs to be tailored like this.


Child:

4 yrs old- Pre-School
6 yrs old - First Grade
12 yrs old- Enter Middle School
14 yrs old -Enter High School take basic subjects
16-18 yrs old- Move to specialized area of school similar to choosing a major.

American education is too bland and cookie cutter to have much success. Uniforms should be required, fuk your child's "individuality", you're at school to learn not attend a fashion show.

All schools should be required to have electronic access to a childs course history, grades and performance reports whether the parents utilize them are not.

Teachers should be paid more but have higher standards. Problem students would be noted early and weigh differently on the success scale.

More funding more funding more funding. Every school should have capable facilities including a computer lab and chemistry lab. The computer lab would have to be multi-platform no vendor specific deals allowed.

The results we see simply point to the truth. Americans watch too much television and have becomes the boobs in front of the tubes. Read a book...go take a walk. Turn off the television!
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #6 of 34
It's not just America - the UK is at an all time high (low?) of moronicism.

Personally, I think it's related tot he political climate, or, more correctly, the dumbing-down and the political fascism are going hand in hand as a prelude to something else.

But it's not just an American issue and it is not the fault of the AMerican people - you musn't think it is - this is universal (well, UK and US).

And it is intentional.

Someone is making sure people stay stupid.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #7 of 34
The wealthier a nation becomes, the fatter, slower, and dumber the population is. Funny wha'?
Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin
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Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin
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post #8 of 34
George Orwell
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by NJ Tom
The wealthier a nation becomes, the fatter, slower, and dumber the population is. Funny wha'?

I think people are a bit too critical. I don't imagine that the rest of the world would fair much better, if at all, on these questions. As far as fatter and slower, these are obvious tie ins to prosperity, but the masses have never been well educated, and in this day and age it's not necessarily the "system." Any graduate of the public school system should be able to answer those simple questions. The problem is that mainstream culture has not evolved.

The "problem" with education today isn't the school system. The problem is the students. The fact that terrifically under-funded schools in the former USSR seem to yield better average students than US schools seems to me to indicate that more funding won't help anything.
Cat: the other white meat
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Cat: the other white meat
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post #10 of 34
They're Not StupidThey're Lazy

Among all the factors that contribute to this (besides the limitless introversion of the middle class), we can add the fact that high schoolers have no incentive to get a good grade on these international tests. They haven't got a thing to do with their GPA, college entrance, and they'll never know their scores. The only good thing about them is you miss one day of class of [name your least favorite subject].

Quote:
You could conclude from these exams that American high-schoolers are ill-taught and ill-prepared for the competitive global economy. But what if you look at these tests like a capitalist rather than an educator? Nothing is at stake for kids when they take the international exams and the NAEP. Students don't even learn how they scored. ...

The dubiousness of these test results becomes clear when you compare them to the results of tests that actually do matter for teenagers: high-school exit exams and college boards. Nineteen states now require their students to pass assessments before they can don a cap and gown; seven others are testing students but not yet withholding diplomas. When states begin imposing penalties for failure, it makes a differencesometimes a big one. Look at Texas: In 2004, results counted toward graduation for the first time, and pass rates on both the math and English portions of the test leapt almost 20 points. According to Julie Jary, who oversees student assessment for the state, no substantive alterations were made to the test. What changed was students' motivation: When their diplomas were hanging in the balance, they managed to give more correct answers.

--B
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post #11 of 34
Hey.. it thought of a great way we could add to this thread.

What I didn't learn in school (in the US)

1) Who won the Civil War? Who started it? Why?
2) Why we have Congress & House?
3) How did we get out of the great depression?
4) Where did all the Indians go?
5) Where does money come from?
6) Why do we pay taxes?
7) When did 'monogamy' begin?
8) Why is Dark Side of the Moon the best album?
9) -please continue posting your own list of 'lacks'-
I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
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I never get tired of being right all the time... but I do get tired of having to prove it to you again and again.
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post #12 of 34
This is one of the problems with our testing systems. Schools now teach the students to pass some standards test. Research by students is also more limited. Now they google or use Spark notes or cliff notes. Gone are the days of paging thru encyclopedias and reading article on anything that catchs their interest while looking for the required homework subject. Till they develope the "Learn by Osmosis" system and have schools devotes to sparking higher learning I see no change the test results.

reg
post #13 of 34
I have come back from the first day of term at the inner London primary school where I work. 92% of the pupils have English as an additional language, 70% get free school meals, 28 % are the children of refugees or asylum seekers, 20% have no previous schooling. Did the Headmistress, the Teachers, the Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator, the Learning Mentors, the Teaching Assistants, the Targeted Pupil Initiative Worker (me ) spend all day discussing how to raise standards, encourage progress for all,make all feel valued and welcome, make education enjoyable and rewarding so as to facilitate life-long learning?
Fuck no, we decided as this is Fascist England to do what "someone" wants and to keep the kids stupid.
P.S Seg, any predictions for saturday? I expect you to have the last laugh !

Edited to spell pupils correctly (!)

"Wankers talking about other wankers and wanking." XamaX

I'll never get back the time i just wasted reading that post." Miami Craig
" It's like you've achieved some kind of irrelevance zen, or...

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"Wankers talking about other wankers and wanking." XamaX

I'll never get back the time i just wasted reading that post." Miami Craig
" It's like you've achieved some kind of irrelevance zen, or...

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post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Alex London
I have come back from the first day of term at the inner London primary school where I work. 92% of the puils have English as an additional language, 70% get free school meals, 28 % are the children of refugees or asylum seekers, 20% have no previous schooling. Did the Headmistress, the Teachers, the Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator, the Learning Mentors, the Teaching Assistants, the Targeted Pupil Initiative Worker (me ) spend all day discussing how to raise standards, encourage progress for all,make all feel valued and welcome, make education enjoyable and rewarding so as to facilitate life-long learning?
Fuck no, we decided as this is Fascist England to do what "someone" wants and to keep the kids stupid.
P.S Seg, any predictions for saturday? I expect you to have the last laugh !

But what did that entail Mr London? get specific . . . . sounds interesting . . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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post #15 of 34
its surprising how little people know,

i've spoken to people just in the last two weeks who:

1-dont know the names of all 9 (current) planets or even that we have nine.

2-look confused when i ask how many states we have and are shocked when i say 50.

3-dont know who the vice president is.

4-cannot name all the states that border the state they live in.

5-think that england is somewhere near romania or that greenland is england.

6-cannot give me the name of the last 10 presidents starting with the current one.

7-cant name two roman emperors, any two, and wonder why im asking.

8-scrunch their face up and start checking the map when i ask them in what city in america is the american embassy? (there is none)

face it, people just dont read. but they can tell you the latest sports scores, and who brad pitt is dating.

i belive there should be an amount of "walking around knowledge" general stuff that everyone should know like what the tallest mountian is on earth, simple stuff like that. but people have no desire to read and i dont see how you enrich your mind and learn if you dont read...
post #16 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by futuremac
its surprising how little people know,

i've spoken to people just in the last two weeks who:

1-dont know the names of all 9 (current) planets or even that we have nine.

2-look confused when i ask how many states we have and are shocked when i say 50.

3-dont know who the vice president is.

4-cannot name all the states that border the state they live in.

5-think that england is somewhere near romania or that greenland is england.

6-cannot give me the name of the last 10 presidents starting with the current one.

7-cant name two roman emperors, any two, and wonder why im asking.

8-scrunch their face up and start checking the map when i ask them in what city in america is the american embassy? (there is none)

face it, people just dont read. but they can tell you the latest sports scores, and who brad pitt is dating.

i belive there should be an amount of "walking around knowledge" general stuff that everyone should know like what the tallest mountian is on earth, simple stuff like that. but people have no desire to read and i dont see how you enrich your mind and learn if you dont read...

Perhaps since K-12 schools don't seem to be able to impart specific or particular knowledge, they could concentrate on teaching "contexts".

For instance, I seem to recall that having to memorize the planets of our solar system sort of became the whole deal when it came to celestial mechanics, something you crammed for then promptly forgot. That, and a great deal of information on the composition of each planet.

Instead, you could concentrate on the idea of a planetary system: the shape of it, it's tendencies (with our very own sol system as an example), lots of models (do they still make orrery?), etc.

Maybe if you just hammered on that for 4 or 5 years, at least later in life when a citizen reads about a NASA probe to Jupiter they can sort of picture what's going on.

I use this example because pretty much no one I know (ostensibly educated people all) who isn't declared as a "science buff" has the faintest idea how the solar system is configured, much less galaxies or galactic clusters or the larger universe. Hence, they are more or less immune to any new info that involves these entities, since they have no context to place the information within.

I would imagine that the same strategy might serve for geography, history and other branches of science; less so for math which is pretty much all particulars.

Teachers: forgive me if this bone ignorant and this is already widely done. My grade school days seemed intent on putting the cart before the horse and bludgeoning us with "facts" and "lists" and "great men" and "trade routes" without ever getting around to the big picture.

I can remember more than a few "aha!" moments in college when the "why" was finally revealed and I thought "Shit! Why didn't they tell us that first? Was it a secret?"
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #17 of 34
An educated, informed and knowledgeable public, and an open, inquiring media are two essential prerequisites for a working democracy. Only a dumbed down public would put up with the last 5 years of scams, treason, wars based on lies, false flags, rampant nepotism and croneyism, fake boogiemen, criminal incompetence, paranoia, secrecy and every other imaginable negative that comes to mind.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #18 of 34
Let's not loose sight of the reality that 'people' who live in technically advanced cultures have tended to commoditize things with reckless abandon. Everything from cars to childcare can be bought and sold in any flavor imaginable.

Once you add a strong "I am my own" attitude to this commoditization, I don't see things turning out any differently.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #19 of 34
There's a culture of stupidity in this country that I don't think exists at least not this extent in other part of Western Civilization. I mean kids rebel against school and there are geeks and nerd types in other countries but the worship of ignorance just seems to be much more prevelant in popular culture here compared to other places IMO.

Having said that, I distinctly recall intentionally filling out scantrons without reading questions and such for these type of anonymous assessments for which nothing is at stake. I'm sure I got ~75% or 80% wrong or so and that in no way correlated with my ignorance, vast as it may be but rather was just a reflection on the fact that I was a stupid adolescent and that's the sort of thing kids do sometimes when they are 14. So I dunno that you can necessarily read as much into this sort of data in cases where the students are not required to perform well to please parents or pass onto to another grade or graduate.

Quote:
7-cant name two roman emperors, any two, and wonder why im asking.

Well I would be a bit puzzled on the why you are asking as well even though I could name two. I mean it is a bit of an odd question to just go up and ask someone. "Hi, how are you? Good. Name two Roman Emporers!"
post #20 of 34
lol hi colander,

no thats not how these usually start. the one a few weeks ago started because they saw me reading the ny times (which is considered odd around here as most read only the small town paper,usually just the crime and sports sections) and i was reading about these possible new "planets" past pluto and weather pluto should even be considered a planet.

that led one of them to say that pluto was the largest planet (??) which led to me being quizzed about stuff which i then asked them about. then we all started asking each other trivia questions.

it was alot of fun, but i was shocked at the lack of "walking around knowledge" there was one guy who got the planets right by remembering a song he learned in school which taught that. then we talked about how the planets were named after gods and that led to the roman emperors question. (julius ceasar and nero should be easy for anyone)

when i was a kid if you failed too much you weren't passed to the next grade. period.

i saw kids who stayed back 3,4, times until they "got it" (or turned 16) now they pass these kids without knowing as much. i just dont think its all the schools fault either. in my home we had "a day without tv" (or radio) every few weeks, and we were told to get a book and read it.

while i was cracking open books, my school friends were out playing games, and got mad when i aced the test, and wouldn't let them cheat.

i also went to the library and read because i found out the school wasen't telling us everything (who knew christopher columbus had vd?)
post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by futuremac
(julius ceasar and nero should be easy for anyone)

That's Julius Caesar.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
That's Julius Caesar.

Too much Ceasar dressing at McD.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by futuremac
1-dont know the names of all 9 (current) planets or even that we have nine.

[smartass]

We have either 8 or 10. Pluto isn't really a planet, it is an kuiper belt object.

But if you are going to count Pluto, then you kind of have to count the 10th one, Sedna, which is larger than Pluto.

[\\smartass]
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
That's Julius Caesar.

i always manage to have at least one error in a post even when i think i've checked them all lol.

would you belive i have always had trouble with that one? i had spelled it that way at first but wasen't sure and went online to a list of the emperors and got both spellings and just went with the second one, i knew the meaning would get through.

as for pluto not being a planet im not sure thats all settled yet though im inclined to be with you on that, the last i read was they were going to keep pluto on the list of planets even though it was in question. but until its settled im sticking with the current nine.
post #25 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
[smartass]

We have either 8 or 10. Pluto isn't really a planet, it is an kuiper belt object.

But if you are going to count Pluto, then you kind of have to count the 10th one, Sedna, which is larger than Pluto.

[\\smartass]

Do not. There's such a thing as seniority, you know.

Let Sedna fare for itself. I mean, it's named after an Inuit goddess, and has no business horning in on the Roman pantheon.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by futuremac
i always manage to have at least one error in a post even when i think i've checked them all lol.

would you belive i have always had trouble with that one? i had spelled it that way at first but wasen't sure and went online to a list of the emperors and got both spellings and just went with the second one, i knew the meaning would get through.

as for pluto not being a planet im not sure thats all settled yet though im inclined to be with you on that, the last i read was they were going to keep pluto on the list of planets even though it was in question. but until its settled im sticking with the current nine.

I'm new here, and this may be a bit too argumentative , but doesn't this almost prove the point addabox presented? The fact that you can understand the concept of planets and the intricacies of how they are defined really is far more important to this situation than knowing which ones are in our universe, and which ones are defined as such.

Now, I am a high school senior in the Illinois (US) public school system.* In my (extremely limited) experience I have found the skill of research and critical analysis/thinking far more valuable than any ability to merely recite facts. In mathematics, for example, the reasoning required to derive a formula is much more important than the formula iteself. If you are able to create the formula, then you must understand it (theoretically speaking). This understadning, in turn, allows you to implement said equation to a more advanced degree, making it more useful. Of course, that doesn't mean facts like the ones you mentioned above are useless, but they lead to so much more when the significance behind them is actually understood.

*I actually do half home schooling for English and History but that is beside the point
post #27 of 34
You're new here, so I'll fill you in (although you'd figger it out yourself in about 3 seconds anyway).

AppleInsider is all about taking a stand on semantics and sticking to it what may.

I mean, it's not quite semantics, but there's a poll right now on the spelling of grey/gray!!!

--B
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post #28 of 34
So I may be a bit thick headed, well, I am a bit thick headed... but were you referring to the equation/formula exchange, or am I just oblivious? \
post #29 of 34
Just to throw some gas on the fire, I'll bring up the idea of school choice.

To start, I believe in public schools and I have attended public schools.
But government bureaucracy eventually slows down any institution, and the school system has become a combat zone over funding models, union entrenchment and political hot potatoes.

The only thing I can see to apply some needed pressure is choice.

This can work out better for the public sector, as it has before.

In the 70's, everyone derided the post office for arrogant, poor, ridiculously slow service. Enter Fedex et al.

Today, I put a letter in a Canada Post box and it reaches it's destination within hours, not days. Post offices are clean and tidy and located in major malls. I haven't heard anyone complain about a lost package in years.

I want someone to pay at least that much attention to the education of the next generation of Canadians.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #30 of 34
Under the idea of school choice, could you add partial privatization, maybe as an alternative model? What I mean by this is private, self regulated institutions, or at least districts, that are held to a set of government created guidelines aimed at preserving a certian quality of education. The trick, of course, is in settting those guidelines, especially in regard to educational content concerning controversial subjects, and enforcing them.

Anyways, just a thought.
post #31 of 34
Finland is supposed to have one of the world's best public school systems. Well, if that's true, then things are really goddamn awful elsewhere.

What I learned there was how to be lazy. I pulled top-of-class scores by twiddling my thumbs most of the time and most of the subjects. Sitting there was largely pointless, and not just for myself but many others. Some subjects I intensely hated, because they were forced on us and teached in a way devoid of interest. Some of them I have returned to as an adult for curiosity (reading uni textbooks/laymen's books) and thus confirmed the problem was never the subject matter, but the teaching.

All the while, for many people in the class, some subjects were so horrendously difficult they should have never been forced to take them. A second foreign language, for instance. (Everyone has to take two.) What are a student's chances with the second if he is already struggling to pass the first foreign language?

If you trim away the excess fat like obsessing about historical dates, names, recognizing specific plants and animals, there's not that much a kid needs to know to grow up to be a functioning citizen. Reading, writing, a little number twiddling. Basics of laws and government. A tiny bit of geography, an even smaller bit of history, and biology with a strong focus on the human and health (nutrition/exercise/hygiene, a little bit of evolutionary psychology findings sprinkled on top... of course not labeled like that). You could sum this stuff up as "what you need to read and comprehend the newspaper and your fellow human beings".

Everything over that, you should not force-feed to a kid. They'll hate it, forget it quickly, and quite possibly never return to it. Even if otherwise in time they would have been interested in the subject. To teach specialized knowledge, the kid has to be interested, has to desire the knowledge. Until he does, off to work I say. If it's too early for that, then the best "general learning" would be a balance of physical hobbies, creative hobbies and group/teamwork activity and competition, like football, scouting, guitar, sewing etc. Few of these become a profession, but are very valuable nonetheless, much more than useless trivia that unfortunately seems the norm in schooling.

While working with the advanced, voluntary school material, at times the teacher naturally has to give commands and orders "You need to do this." or "You need to do more." but for that to work he needs to already command the student's like and respect, not unlike a parent. There has to be an underlying will of the student to learn, even if a strong word or two is sometimes used to get him going again.

It's very valuable to have one-on-one time between the teacher and the student. Even short periods make a huge difference. It's also fine for students to learn most stuff "alone". "Teamwork" slapped on top of an otherwise standard assignment is a surefire way to hinder the learning of most of the students.

There's no way to do this and have the necessary teacher-student attachment at a one-size fits all public school. If there is public school, it should be short and contain the very basics only. If there is still mandatory schooling after that (whether it is public, private or between) parents should get to pick the school.

In subjects that are not well suited to it, there should be little to no grading. If a student's focus is to enroll in next level education that has entrance exams, then the content of those entrance exams should be one focus of study in themselves, and mock-up exams should be conducted. Tests mid-school should be more of a tool for the teacher to fine-tune his teaching and for the student to tune his learning, not a yardstick of progress or worth at all. Both the tests and the teaching should be kept challenging at all times - therefore it would not be expected to get full marks on any test. To help the student reach this best personal performance, they should be taught learning techniques. These have been almost entirely absent from both my school and university experience. I have heard that there are forward-thinking universities and even high schools that do teach things like scheduling, note-taking, planning, reviewing and memory.

Phew. I this a huge ass post or what.
post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by Lupa
I'm new here, and this may be a bit too argumentative , but doesn't this almost prove the point addabox presented? The fact that you can understand the concept of planets and the intricacies of how they are defined really is far more important to this situation than knowing which ones are in our universe, and which ones are defined as such.

Now, I am a high school senior in the Illinois (US) public school system.* In my (extremely limited) experience I have found the skill of research and critical analysis/thinking far more valuable than any ability to merely recite facts. In mathematics, for example, the reasoning required to derive a formula is much more important than the formula iteself. If you are able to create the formula, then you must understand it (theoretically speaking). This understadning, in turn, allows you to implement said equation to a more advanced degree, making it more useful. Of course, that doesn't mean facts like the ones you mentioned above are useless, but they lead to so much more when the significance behind them is actually understood.

*I actually do half home schooling for English and History but that is beside the point

maybe its just my area, but the people i interact with could not construct the post you just did. the thinking is that they just stop learning after high school.

they have no intrest in reading AT ALL...

i see what you're saying but at least you have the intrest in "the skill of research and critical analysis/thinking" where they do not, and would consider that a waste of time. my feeling is that if they don't have the INTREST in learning the small facts, this indicates a lack of intrest in learning anything beyond what they shove at you in high school.

i go back to when i learned christoper columbus died of vd. i did not learn that in school (they didn't teach it, they just said he died) i learned that at the library after i left high school because i have a love of reading about anything.

i belive learning new things should continue throughout your life. and not end at high school.
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by 709
Seriously though, Americans are bred to be idiots. What did you expect?

Into the at, for.
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Into the at, for.
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post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally posted by 709
Seriously though, Americans are bred to be idiots. What did you expect?

And yet we rule the world, how about that? 8)

I think that we have a problem with education - our public education system was designed to crank out factory workers who do not question or think too much, and now we have no more factories to work them in.

If we want to continue leading the world in creativity (which we have in the 20th century, no doubt at all), then I think that we need a voucher system that puts the education of children into a less uniform mould.
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