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The definitive statement: failure of Leadership - Page 4  

post #121 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
What nonsense. The drinking water must be contaminated in Utah too.

NOBODY on this board believes Bush isn't responsible to a certain degree. I know I've referenced his patronage appointment at FEMA as well as other things.

The biggest problem here is how a bunch of partisan nuts on this board, who have been ranting against Bush for half a decade, seem determined to use a human disaster of epic proportion for partisan political purposes.

And it is truly despicable.

Why don't you forget the partisan politics and look at the arguments . . . I for one could care less about Condi Rice's shoe shopping

however, that said, I never demanded Bush show up in the devastated areas . . . . that's unnecessary . . . all he had to do was get on the phone and yell at FEMA -"Get those people some food and water now or your ass is grass!!! then get them out of there!!"
I think that whatever layers of beureacracy exist would pretty much dissolve when a real leader speaks . . . .


Then, since he did end up visiting, I can't help but be slightly appaled at the baldfaced posing and damage/image control that it reveals . . . i mean if ever there were a time to see the Emperors clothing for what they are, its when 50 trained firefighters are flown in from other states, not to help, but to stand next to the president and pretend that they are actually helping . . . . then they go and are told to hand out flyers . . . . hmmm?!?!? is that partisan to dislike that sort of thing?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #122 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Why don't you forget the partisan politics and look at the arguments . . . I for one could care less about Condi Rice's shoe shopping

Well it appears the people who you claim are not interested in politics are of course doing nothing but attempting to use this for political gain.

Give me money

Quote:
A new Democratic effort to whip up indignation about the Bush administration's handling of Hurricane Katrina also tried to raise money for Democratic candidates.

Sen. Charles Schumer, a New York Democrat and the head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, issued an appeal Thursday urging people to sign an online petition to fire the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency over his handling of the Katrina response.

After an inquiry from the Associated Press, the DSCC quickly pulled down the page and said they would donate to charity any money raised by the anti-FEMA petition.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #123 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Well it appears the people who you claim are not interested in politics are of course doing nothing but attempting to use this for political gain.

a) Who said anything about people not being interested in politics?

b) I can only assume from your point here that you think that the opposition should somehow not try to turn such a massive failure of the federal government to its advantage?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #124 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
all he had to do was get on the phone and yell at FEMA -"Get those people some food and water now or your ass is grass!!! then get them out of there!!"
I think that whatever layers of beureacracy exist would pretty much dissolve when a real leader speaks . . .

As I noted the other day, the biggest thing that has demonstrated Bush's failure here and as a president is that when there was a vacuum of leadership in this crisis, Bush basically said "It's not my responsibility." And he's continuing to take that attitude with his whole proposed "investigation." Rather than saying it was unacceptable and then being a leader and working to fix it, he just says it's unacceptable, but not his problem and that maybe when it's over he'll figure out who to pin it on.

From the beginning, it's felt awfully strange how bush had totally kept his distance from being viewed as part of the chain of command, even when it was crystal clear that a leader was badly, badly needed.
post #125 of 278
Emergency management in this country is set up to work from the bottom up, NOT the top down. When local jurisdictions need help with a problem, they MUST get in touch with the state. If the state needs assistance in handling its problem, it MUST get in touch and ask the federal government for SPECIFIC resources, including emergency and disaster declarations from the president.

Notice that things in Alabama and Mississippi have gone much better than in Louisiana, comparatively. I wonder why that is. If there was an incredible failure of our federal government, you'd think all three states would have gone through the same turmoil and terrible response.

My "Louisiana Blame Meter":

35% - Mayor of New Orleans
50% - Governor of Louisiana
10% - FEMA/DHS
5% - President Bush
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #126 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Emergency management in this country is set up to work from the bottom up, NOT the top down. When local jurisdictions need help with a problem, they MUST get in touch with the state.

They did.

Quote:
If the state needs assistance in handling its problem, it MUST get in touch and ask the federal government for SPECIFIC resources, including emergency and disaster declarations from the president.

They did.

Quote:
Notice that things in Alabama and Mississippi have gone much better than in Louisiana, comparatively.

Other than the entire coast of MS not being underwater, they went about the same.

Quote:
I wonder why that is. If there was an incredible failure of our federal government, you'd think all three states would have gone through the same turmoil and terrible response.

They did.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #127 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
a) Who said anything about people not being interested in politics?

b) I can only assume from your point here that you think that the opposition should somehow not try to turn such a massive failure of the federal government to its advantage?

I'm not going to argue about who to assign blame to with this because the parties involved in the discussion are busy foaming about the mouth rather than thinking. It isn't a discussion here. It is people screaming past each other using the written word.

However I do think that attempting to use this for fundraising and gain political points on this at this stage is pretty damn sick. We can argue all day about whether 9/11 is tied to Iraq, whether Bush knew, whether Republicans and Democrats should have authorized the war, etc. However we thankfully didn't address all that while the building were burning, getting ready to come down or while the dead were still waiting to be exhumed or buried.

They haven't even bagged the bodies yet in New Orleans and people are sticking their hands out asking for political donations. That is f*cking sick and twisted and I don't care who is doing it. You show me the Republican donation pitch with attempting to raise funds using this and I will call it just as sick and wrong.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #128 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
5% - President Bush

Quote:
I'm in rare form today

.

Rare, indeed.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
post #129 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Notice that things in Alabama and Mississippi have gone much better than in Louisiana, comparatively.

I don't know about alabama, but mississippi certainly hasn't. In mississippi we see the same kinds of failures by FEMA and bodies rotting in the streets. Huge sections of Mississippi saw aid voids for long periods of time. As you can read here, help from FEMA, the national guard and the red cross was on the same time as louisiana. Last I checked, however, FEMA still isn't in biloxi and has probably dropped the ball more in mississippi.
post #130 of 278
In Hattiesburg, MS, (where I went to college), the university alone received an estimated $100 million worth of damages. A few days ago the FEMA guy there walked up to some folks and asked if he could help. Something is seriously wrong when FEMA guys are wandering around looking for something to do.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #131 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
My "Louisiana Blame Meter":

Your meter is badly in need of re-calibration.
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bee
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BEE
post #132 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Your meter is badly in need of re-calibration.

I think it's just upside down. See, it gets clearer when you flip the order:

5% - Mayor of New Orleans
10% - Governor of Louisiana
50% - FEMA/DHS
35% - President Bush
post #133 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
A few days ago the FEMA guy there walked up to some folks and asked if he could help. Something is seriously wrong when FEMA guys are wandering around looking for something to do.

Maybe I just missed your point, but it seems to me we want the "FEMA guys" asking how they can help once they're on site.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #134 of 278
I think you all who cast a majority of the blame on the feds are going to be terribly disappointed when all is said and done. There is a BIG difference between "failure of leadership" and "poor response time." The way I see it, the failure of leadership came at the state level and below. As a byproduct of that, the feds' response time was severely impeded.

Let me reiterate this for those who aren't catching on: The federal government cannot and will not respond to an emergency, even the size of Katrina, without being asked for specific resources in a timely manner. The feds aren't Superman who'll jump to action at the first sign of turmoil.

I'm hearing a lot of evidence that there was failure specifically at the Louisiana governor's level to request federal resources in a timely manner. I've also seen evidence that the mayor of NO was far from implementing the city's emergency operations plan in the way it was intended.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #135 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I'm not going to argue about who to assign blame to with this because the parties involved in the discussion are busy foaming about the mouth rather than thinking. It isn't a discussion here. It is people screaming past each other using the written word.

However I do think that attempting to use this for fundraising and gain political points on this at this stage is pretty damn sick. We can argue all day about whether 9/11 is tied to Iraq, whether Bush knew, whether Republicans and Democrats should have authorized the war, etc. However we thankfully didn't address all that while the building were burning, getting ready to come down or while the dead were still waiting to be exhumed or buried.

They haven't even bagged the bodies yet in New Orleans and people are sticking their hands out asking for political donations. That is f*cking sick and twisted and I don't care who is doing it. You show me the Republican donation pitch with attempting to raise funds using this and I will call it just as sick and wrong.

Nick

Nick it is understandable for people who see the failure of government at all levels as seen in this latest disaster in the gulf states to become passionate for change as to sweep out the failed leadership in charge of the well being and safety of the people of this nation.

It is not "sick" for a free people to become outraged at the idea of stranded innocent people being without aid for more than 5 days in the United States of America after such a natural disaster in fact it is their duty to demand better. The day Americans become silent is the day we give up and wither away. I do not understand why it is that you feel that Americans are not entitled to their disgust of this failed government. You may go on with your day to day believing that all is great and such but it is not up to you to censor or restrict the evaluations of others.

Fellowship
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #136 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I'm hearing a lot of evidence that there was failure specifically at the Louisiana governor's level to request federal resources in a timely manner.

Where are you hearing this? PLEASE POST SOURCES. So far, in this thread, the request she sent to FEMA has been posted. Go ahead and read it.

Quote:
From the Letter from Blanco to the President sent through FEMA on the 27th. of August.
....

I request Direct Federal assistance for work and services to save lives and protect property.

And on the 28th she sent another specifying what she needed and where. R E A D I T Y O U R S E L F.

--B
...


...
...


...
post #137 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I'm not going to argue about who to assign blame to with this because the parties involved in the discussion are busy foaming about the mouth rather than thinking. It isn't a discussion here. It is people screaming past each other using the written word.

However I do think that attempting to use this for fundraising and gain political points on this at this stage is pretty damn sick. We can argue all day about whether 9/11 is tied to Iraq, whether Bush knew, whether Republicans and Democrats should have authorized the war, etc. However we thankfully didn't address all that while the building were burning, getting ready to come down or while the dead were still waiting to be exhumed or buried.

They haven't even bagged the bodies yet in New Orleans and people are sticking their hands out asking for political donations. That is f*cking sick and twisted and I don't care who is doing it. You show me the Republican donation pitch with attempting to raise funds using this and I will call it just as sick and wrong.

Nick



Good. Bush should among those getting blame. Why? Because he appointed the people who were suppose to take care of this. Also he's the president. Please don't try to suggest he can make decisions without conseqences. This isn't for political gain. This is so we can have a leader who will handle these kinds of issues in a timely fashion. It's just another example of how we really don't have a good leader. That's something that shouldn't be ignored.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
post #138 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Nick it is understandable for people who see the failure of government at all levels as seen in this latest disaster in the gulf states to become passionate for change as to sweep out the failed leadership in charge of the well being and safety of the people of this nation.

It is not "sick" for a free people to become outraged at the idea of stranded innocent people being without aid for more than 5 days in the United States of America after such a natural disaster in fact it is their duty to demand better. The day Americans become silent is the day we give up and wither away. I do not understand why it is that you feel that Americans are not entitled to their disgust of this failed government. You may go on with your day to day believing that all is great and such but it is not up to you to censor or restrict the evaluations of others.

Fellowship

There is a big difference between being outraged about an event and running a political campaign.

People were outraged about 9/11 and there were people on here outraged when they perceived anyone Bush or otherwise using it as part of their political campaign three years LATER.

The point is that the bodies aren't even off the streets or out of the rubble and groups are saying, give me money so I can win a seat. They aren't saying let's have a protest or let's make a donation, hold a benefit or even let's just start a discussion about what actions are necessary to see this never happens again. (Which is unlikely given that NO is sinking and will encounter hurricanes again.)

One set of actions helps the victims. Another set of actions is exploiting them for your own gain. Anyone political fundraising using this issue this early is definately the latter and not the former.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #139 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by jimmac
Good. Bush should among those getting blame. Why? Because he appointed the people who were suppose to take care of this. Also he's the president. Please don't try to suggest he can make decisions without conseqences. This isn't for political gain. This is so we can have a leader who will handle these kinds of issues in a timely fashion. It's just another example of how we really don't have a good leader. That's something that shouldn't be ignored.

If these groups want to bring that issue up in their fundraising and political discussions leading up to and including the election, that is fine with me. But you don't do it when the dead are still sitting in the structures and the event that has caused people to need help isn't even handed yet and wouldn't be no matter who responded.

We will pick a new leader in 2008 and if Republicans or Democrats want to use this issue, it is fine with me. However it is 2005 and we still have children wondering if their parents are alive. We have bodies floating in the water and people without homes. That isn't the time when you go around attempting to score political points and ask for political donations. Again that is exploiting victims instead of helping them. There is an appropriate time and place for this sort of stuff and now isn't it.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #140 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
There is an appropriate time and place for this sort of stuff and now isn't it.

Be practical. If there's no transparency in the rescue operations, how will we know who to blame and for what in four years? Through the independent commission that the Republicans are trying to block? If there's no urgency in the criticism, there will be no reform of the faulty operations (an immediate objective) nor will there ultimately be accountability.



--B
...


...
...


...
post #141 of 278
CBSNEWS

A great editorial that makes the case even better than I can.

The quote that hits the strongest...

Quote:
Contrary to what our politicians tend to teach us, outrage does not equal empathy. Nor is it the same as helpful action.

Next...

Quote:
We're still smack dab in the middle of this crisis. Uprooted, devastated poor people are not helped by editorials insisting this calamity was caused by Bush's callousness to the poor, or Republican politicians berating Louisiana's Democratic officials, or administration officials defending some of the clear cut blunders or the House Minority Leader saying of President Bush, "Oblivious, in denial, dangerous."

Half the people who read this will think Pelosi was too easy on Bush. The other half think Pelosi is oblivious and dangerous. Not even the most costly and massive natural disaster in American history can begin to bridge this ugly chasm in the political class.

A great conclusion...

Quote:
I do not mean to argue here that the response to Katrina was adequate or competent. It seems clear it wasn't and the victims have every right in the world to be irate, as do those who have witnessed the devastation up close.

But the fact remains that this was a cataclysmic, epic natural disaster and great suffering was unavoidable. The time to figure out what went wrong and perhaps assign blame is not now. It will come soon enough and then it won't end. Those who are pushing agendas of accusation now are mostly doing so from self-interest or sanctimony.

America has developed a bad habit of insisting that when bad things happen to people, someone must pay, someone must be to blame. It's the spirit of litigation and too many of our politicians, like ambulance chasers, are preying on it. It's embarrassing.

Most people thought 9/11 would bring the country together and ease the so-called culture wars. It may have for some, but certainly not for the politically engaged. And so it will be with Katrina.

So don't worry those who are rooting for your political teams before the bodies are even off the ground, your little political wars will continue. In the meantime, find a way to help.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #142 of 278
Strange that you speak out against using it to take political shots when you've just spent post after post using it to take political shots.

There is nothing wrong with discussing the government's failures.
post #143 of 278
From the WSJ: Here's a great big ray of sunshine on our nation's ability to deal with realilty.

Quote:
The war in Iraq has been poorly planned and executed from the beginning, and now, like a hurricane over warm water, the insurgency is in a position to take immense energy from the fundamental divisions in that nation. The rise of Chinese military power, although lately noted, has met with no response. America's borders are open, its cities vulnerable, its civil defense nonexistent, its armies stretched thin. We have taken only deeply inadequate steps to prepare for and forestall a viral pandemic that by the testimony of experts is a high probability and could kill scores of millions in this country alone. That we do not see relatively simple and necessary courses of action, and are not led and inspired to them, represents a catastrophic failure of leadership that bridges party lines.

Great, just great.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #144 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Maybe I just missed your point, but it seems to me we want the "FEMA guys" asking how they can help once they're on site.

I said "guy." One. Singular. In a town of 100K that took a direct hit. It's widely being reported as the 3rd worst hit area in the state.

He got back in his car and drove away.

I don't want FEMA asking to help out. I want FEMA to take the hell over.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #145 of 278
Speaking of cronyism, as I type, Karen Hughes is being made an ambassador.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #146 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz
Where are you hearing this? PLEASE POST SOURCES.
And on the 28th she sent another specifying what she needed and where. R E A D I T Y O U R S E L F.

--B

I read it, thanks for the link. Maybe you should read it too. Yes, it's good that she sent that on Sunday the 28th. The problem is that she only requested funds for programs, help opening a few shelters, and assistance cleaning up debris afterward.

NO WHERE in that document are requests for additional personnel to assist in potential life-saving efforts and rescue missions.

NO WHERE in that document is there a mention of even the *possibility* that the city of New Orleans would flood and a request for personnel to move toward the area in case that were to happen.

She didn't *officially* ask for what she needed until FRIDAY, September 2nd, 3 DAYS after the levees broke and NO flooded. Here's the link from her own office's Web site. She has sent two other letters since the 9/2 letter.

There is a noticable C H A S M of time that she did not officially communicate with the federal government.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #147 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I want FEMA to take the hell over.

That ain't how the game is played in the U.S. of A.

It appears that needs to change if states can't fulfill their duties (see post above).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #148 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
There is a noticable C H A S M of time that she did not officially communicate with the federal government.

One of those days was a day of prayer. I couldn't believe it when I heard her say that "we should all spend tomorrow in a day of prayer". I suggest that her supporters spend a day of prayer next election day instead of voting for her.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #149 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut

She didn't *officially* ask for what she needed until FRIDAY, September 2nd, 3 DAYS after the levees broke and NO flooded.

Ah. So we are going to blame the slow response on "official" communications; people died because of red-tape. Nice.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #150 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut


My "Louisiana Blame Meter":

35% - Mayor of New Orleans
50% - Governor of Louisiana
10% - FEMA/DHS
5% - President Bush


i.e. 10,000 dead

Mayor killed 3,500
Governor killed 5,000
FEMA killed 1,000
Bush killed 500

That would get Bush still 500 needles in the arm.
post #151 of 278
I believe that CosmoNut's main point (judging from the asterisks) is that the governor's request wasn't an official paper letter with appropriate stamps, despite the fact that their "communications grid was devastated". Remember that local and state authorities were the 1st responders on the ground dealing with problems, while Washington was waiting for the right signatures.

What had she requested previously from FEMA (as opposed to the president)?

From CosmoNut's sources, on the 2nd:

Quote:
Based on our initial assessment, I have previously requested significant federal support to include: an additional 40,000 troops; trailers of water, ice and food; commercial buses; base camps; staging areas; amphibious personnel carriers; deployable morgues; urban search and rescue teams; airlift; temporary housing; and communications systems. Even if these initial requests had been fully honored, these assets would not be sufficient to address our critical, immediate needs. Additional assistance requirements for the federal government are outlined below.

Many of the items here still have not arrived.

--B
...


...
...


...
post #152 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
i.e. 10,000 dead

Mayor killed 3,500
Governor killed 5,000
FEMA killed 1,000
Bush killed 500

That would get Bush still 500 needles in the arm.

You people will stop at nothing to rail against Bush, will you? To counter your statement, that gives the governor and mayor 8,500 "needles in the arm," but your overall insinuation is absurd.



Anyway, my point in the "Blame Meter" was to show that my opinion is that everyone up and down the chain is to blame to some degree.

In another post somewhere around here I stated that in a lot of ways, I blame ths system. I still do: This article from the New York Times very adequately talks about how convoluted a system we as a nation have to deal with when it comes to emergency preparedness. A lot is mentioned about the use of national guard and active military in the region. Some highlights:
Quote:
As criticism of the response to Hurricane Katrina has mounted, one of the most pointed questions has been why more troops were not available more quickly to restore order and offer aid. Interviews with officials in Washington and Louisiana show that as the situation grew worse, they were wrangling with questions of federal/state authority, weighing the realities of military logistics and perhaps talking past each other in the crisis.

Quote:
"I was there. I saw what needed to be done," Lt. Gen. H Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau, said in an interview. "They were the fastest, best-capable, most appropriate force to get there in the time allowed. And that's what it's all about."

But one senior Army officer expressed puzzlement that active-duty troops were not summoned sooner, saying 82nd Airborne troops were ready to move out from Fort Bragg, N.C., on Sunday, the day before the hurricane hit.

The call never came, administration officials said, in part because military officials believed Guard troops would get to the stricken region faster and because administration civilians worried that there could be political fallout if federal troops were forced to shoot looters.

Quote:
Officials from the Department of Homeland Security say the experience with Hurricane Katrina has demonstrated flaws in the nation's plans to handle disaster.

"This event has exposed, perhaps ultimately to our benefit, a deficiency in terms of replacing first responders who tragically may be the first casualties," Paul McHale, the assistant secretary of defense for domestic security, said.

Quote:
The federal government rewrote its national emergency response plan after the Sept. 11 attacks, but it relied on local officials to manage any crisis in its opening days. But Hurricane Katrina overwhelmed local "first responders," including civilian police and the National Guard.

At a news conference on Saturday, Mr. Chertoff said, "The unusual set of challenges of conducting a massive evacuation in the context of a still dangerous flood requires us to basically break the traditional model and create a new model, one for what you might call kind of an ultra-catastrophe."
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #153 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz
What had she requested previously from FEMA (as opposed to the president)?

Protocol dictates that the governor requests specific assistance directly from the president on behalf of all agencies and smaller governing bodies within the state. The president then authorizes federal agencies to act based on the governor's request.

That goes for every state in the union.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #154 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
You people will stop at nothing to rail against Bush, will you? To counter your statement, that gives the governor and mayor 8,500 "needles in the arm," but your overall insinuation is absurd.

This is your numbers!
I did not post a blame %. You did. I am not blaming anybody besides a wall of water!
post #155 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
This is your numbers!
I did not post a blame %. You did. I am not blaming anybody besides a wall of water!

Your comment that Bush deserves a certain number of "needles" implies otherwise.

I did not insinuate that each of those individuals are responsible for a specific proportional number of corpses. I calculated it for the entire efficiency of response to the hurricane.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #156 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Protocol dictates that the governor requests specific assistance directly from the president on behalf of all agencies and smaller governing bodies within the state. The president then authorizes federal agencies to act based on the governor's request.

That goes for every state in the union.


According to her she asked in a phone conversation on Monday...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #157 of 278
The best laid plans of mice and men "gang aft agley":

To a Mouse
Robert Burns

Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murd'ring pattle!

I'm truly sorry Man's dominion
Has broken Nature's social union,
An' justifies that ill opinion,
Which makes thee startle,
At me, thy poor, earth-born companion,
An' fellow-mortal!


I doubt na, whyles, but thou may thieve;
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!
A daimen-icker in a thrave 'S a sma' request:
I'll get a blessin wi' the lave,
An' never miss't!

Thy wee-bit housie, too, in ruin!
It's silly wa's the win's are strewin!
An' naething, now, to big a new ane,
O' foggage green!
An' bleak December's winds ensuin,
Baith snell an' keen!

Thou saw the fields laid bare an' wast,
An' weary Winter comin fast,
An' cozie here, beneath the blast,
Thou thought to dwell,
Till crash! the cruel coulter past
Out thro' thy cell.

That wee-bit heap o' leaves an' stibble,
Has cost thee monie a weary nibble!
Now thou's turn'd out, for a' thy trouble,
But house or hald.
To thole the Winter's sleety dribble,
An' cranreuch cauld!

But Mousie, thou are no thy-lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!


Still, thou art blest, compar'd wi' me!
The present only toucheth thee:
But Och! I backward cast my e'e,
On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!


Disband DHS!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #158 of 278
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #159 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Your comment that Bush deserves a certain number of "needles" implies otherwise.

I did not insinuate that each of those individuals are responsible for a specific proportional number of corpses. I calculated it for the entire efficiency of response to the hurricane.

Posting numbers like these is irrelevant! Anyone can interpret them the way they want. It is you who put blame on Bush & Fema as if blame can be devided in percentages. Complete nonsense. Typical I am a Bushy but in this case I don't love him all the way....Intelligent Design only goes so far.
Blame is Blame.

Thousands died.

100% blame GOD aka Katrina.
post #160 of 278
I always said that Colin Powell was scum. A liberal American-hating Bush-bashing pinko. Who hates Bush.

Always ready to blame Bush the first time anything bad happens.

Reckons Bush was responsible for the hurricane.

Quotes.
meh
meh
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