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The definitive statement: failure of Leadership - Page 5  

post #161 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius

It's in a Scottish Dialect, segovious.

Here's an easier, and much less tangential, one: Too many cooks spoil the broth.

We need to fire some croo....er, cooks.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #162 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I still do: This article from the New York Times very adequately talks about how convoluted a system we as a nation have to deal with when it comes to emergency preparedness.

Other folks read this article as a description of political wrangling and not simply failures due to a system.

some comments I thought were interesting:

a sullivan
Quote:
Blanco and Bush in my opinion deserve each other. I don't know why we're arguing which of them is to blame more. We should be furious at both. They were worried about partisan politics and how things might be "perceived" if they acted to respond to what was by then obviously a monumental crisis. Then there's this caveat in the anonymous quote: "unless the security situation made it completely clear that she was unable to effectively execute her command authority and that lawlessness was the inevitable result." Wasn't that completely clear to many at that point? The first responders were overwhelmed and these politicians were worrying about gender issues and partisan politics? Given the fact that thousands of lives were at stake, "perception" is not or surely should not be an issue. Nor should petty fights over jurisdiction or legal wrangling. Nor should the relative incompetence of governor Blanco. If she was incompetent, then that's all the more reason for Bush to have over-ruled her. The dead and dying in this country deserved better than this. So much better. And ultimately, with a disaster of this magnitude, it is up to the president to deliver that. He failed. There's no getting around it. He failed. In the most basic task required of him.

some good comments from tpm readers
Quote:
A couple of things struck me reading this story. One is that it seems to present a narrative of kathleen Blanco resisting federal authority (and therefore timely aid) but if you close read the text it actually says that Federal officials were certain that she WOULD resist federal control (and that taking this control might have political consequences). The only quote from Blanco (and almost the only information sourced to Blanco)attests that she thought she had requested all possible aid. The article's lede suggests negotiations between state and federal authorities, but unless i'm mistaken, it reads more like the feds were negotiating with themselves.

I'm not at all certain that I'm reading this correctly, and I am concerned. If Blanco did put up unnecessary impediments to aid then she certainly shares more of the blame than I had thought. But, if this is true it seems like it would have become the centerpiece of the adminstration's blame deflecting strategy and as such would have gotten more play than the completely false (and easily disproven) "no state of emergency declared" tactic.

Quote:
I read the Times article before getting to TPM this morning and as I read the section you quote and the rest of the piece what became obvious to me is that the staff work for the executives was abysmal on all sides. First of all the Feds, and I mean FEMA especially, should have had a check list of the things that must be in place: proclamations made, signatures, documents, forms etc. Second, the governor should have had staff people telling her what was needed and making certain that everything was prepared and in a folder if not weeks and months in advance certainly in the days before the storm hit. And if the state people did not have everything in place the FEMA people should have had senior experienced staff people knowledgeable in the machinery who could speak to their counterparts and to the Governor and the President or at least to Andrew Card and make sure it all happened. For that matter why isn't there a kit or a plastic weather tight box that all of this stuff can be placed in and sent by Fedex to the governor with explicit instructions at the onset of this kind of thing. Or even better a kind of two week out of the box course that all governors and presidents (and staff ) take at the beginning of an administration that covers what to do in case of emergency.

I mean this stuff should never have to be made up on the spot as if no one had ever seen an emergency before. In fact, as I think of it wasn't this the rationale put forth for the Homeland Security Department in the first place? I was never enamored of the plan even though it was a Democratic idea and now I am less enthusiastic but I don't think there is any putting that genie back in the bottle.
post #163 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
It is you who put blame on Bush & Fema as if blame can be devided in percentages. Complete nonsense.

It may not have been totally wise to put hard and fast numbers on a percentage scale. The point I was trying to get across was:

1) I don't absolve any level of government of responsibility.
2) The biggest failures *I* see were at the state level.
3) Bush is taking more heat than he really should.

My opinion, folks. I respect your right to disagree with me.
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Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #164 of 278
Quote:
...what became obvious to me is that the staff work for the executives was abysmal on all sides.

Oh, I totally agree. And maybe I've even been too harsh on Blanco, because it DOES seem like her staff and a lot of other staff at different government levels all cocked up a lot of set protocol and procedures.
Quote:
...why isn't there a kit or a plastic weather tight box that all of this stuff can be placed in and sent by Fedex to the governor with explicit instructions at the onset of this kind of thing. Or even better a kind of two week out of the box course that all governors and presidents (and staff ) take at the beginning of an administration that covers what to do in case of emergency.

But don't you know? The politicians get briefings. That's enough, right?

Good luck getting any senior level official or politician to take such a course. Hell, here in our city of 114,000 you'd be hard pressed to get it done. Forget state or federal government.
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Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #165 of 278
Don't know if this has been posted yet:

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/play...interview.affl


Brown was apparantly the college room mate of Bush's campaign director.
post #166 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
The FEMA we have to work with is a direct result of this administration and its general philosophy of governance (and which is shared by the contemporary Republican party).

For years we've been preached to about the merits of "small government" and "personal responsibility". Any number of Bush officials and Republican point men are on record disparaging the entire idea of FEMA as a "government handout" program which needed to be radically downsized.

Until now, nobody bothered much with the inherent contradiction between the right wing line of "let the states deal with it" and the explicit Bush campaign promise to be the one to "protect the homeland".

Remember the horrible specter of letting that pussy John Kerry be in charge of responding to a crisis? That worthless flip-flopper?

Gee, I wonder if John Kerry would have taken something like FEMA seriously enough to put someone with experience in charge, like, oh, say, Bill Clinton did. I wonder if that Herman Munster lookin' humorless drudge might have taken a national disaster seriously enough to get his ass in gear at the first reports of the danger. I wonder if that "Mommy" party big government whore would have taken the whole idea of a federal government seriously enough to treat it like an instrument that can actually get things done, instead of a whipping boy and stalking horse for corporate cronyism?

Here's your small government. I hope ya'll cheer leaders rot in hell.

+
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #167 of 278
Off the White House website:



You know - it's pretty sad when George Bush himself looks like he's more interested than you do.
post #168 of 278
Every Picture Tells A Story:



Nice to see accurate captions on the TV screen...
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post #169 of 278
The buildup to:
"Mr. Brown you are SO fired!"

...begins?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #170 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
The buildup to:
"Mr. Brown you are SO fired!"

...begins?

I'm thinking they had to get him back to Washington because they just couldn't spare the Secret Service detail to keep him safe from certain people, including a Republican senator from Mississippi, and a Democratic one from Louisiana.
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post #171 of 278
There also happens to be a hurricane in the Atlantic.
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post #172 of 278
Well, this is fun. Watching straight thinking independent types who just happen to, you know, support the Republican party over the well being of the country and who just happen to have, through independent minded analysis of the situation at hand, arrived at precisely the same few talking points that every Bush official and Republican attack-bot has been repeating ad nauseum since Rove settled on the push back a few days ago.

The real problem is at the local level (insert discredited and/or largely irrelevant claims about the minutiae of process here). Get people to stop talking about the manifest failure of the federal government and start talking about who signed what with what pen before or after midnight and if form 23/34567/A really got filed in a timely manner. This is why God made right wing blogs. Repeat. Check.

It was a failure "at all levels". Express generalized disgust with government in general, red tape in particular. Encourage people to think of a specific, avoidable and deliberately engineered diminishment of the federal government's capacity to respond to a large scale emergency as one of the inevitable hardships of life. Check.

Angrily declare that it is grossly inappropriate "at this time" for anyone to play "the blame game". Say that over and over again. Imply that the whole thing is such an elaborate cock-up that it is probably beyond mortal ken to ever really sort out, although we can make a desultory effort at some later date. The 9/11 script is helpful here. Check.

As Jon Stewart remarked: "People who don't want to play the blame game are generally, um, to blame.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #173 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
The buildup to:
"Mr. Brown you are SO fired!"

...begins?

Unfortunately no:

"Brown will head back to Washington from Louisiana to oversee the big picture, the official said"

but they are laying the groundwork for his departure:

Earlier, Brown confirmed the switch. Asked if he was being made a scapegoat for a federal relief effort that has drawn widespread and sharp criticism, Brown told The Associated Press after a long pause: "By the press, yes. By the president, No."

"Michael Brown has done everything he possibly could to coordinate the federal response to this unprecedented challenge," Chertoff told reporters in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Chertoff sidestepped a question on whether the move was the first step toward Brown's leaving FEMA.

But a source close to Brown, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the FEMA director had been considering leaving after the hurricane season ended in November and that Friday's action virtually assures his departure.
post #174 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Get people to stop talking about the manifest failure of the federal government and start talking about who signed what with what pen before or after midnight and if form 23/34567/A really got filed in a timely manner.

Some call it a "failure of the federal government." Others call it a delay of federal resources because many required procedures were NOT followed or delayed at the state and local levels.

Quote:
It was a failure "at all levels". Express generalized disgust with government in general, red tape in particular.

I guess it IS easier to just dump it all on Bush, isn't it? Then we can continue to hate him and put blinders on to the fact that there is, in fact, a lot of red tape.

I REALLY wonder how people here would have reacted if John Kerry was in the White House and his government reacted the same way. \

And then you say "It wouldn't have." I'll spare you the typing.
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post #175 of 278
Here's a timeline of this disaster.

Gives a full, and pretty fair description of what happened. I was suprised at what the Mayor did do. But there is something there for everyone.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #176 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I guess it IS easier to just dump it all on Bush, isn't it? Then we can continue to hate him and put blinders on to the fact that there is, in fact, a lot of red tape.

In this country we care about and for retarded people. We do not hate them.

We try and give them the impression that they lead a normal life...
post #177 of 278
It's just all so much red tape, innit? I mean, it wasn't a failure because of incompetence! It was because of red tape! And gal-durnit, we need to let Bush alone so we can get in there and cut out this red tape! How will that be done? By making gummit smaller!

See...it went like this:

1) Shift blame to locals
1.5) Shit. That didn't work and made us look like pussies.
2) Shift blame to red tape.
...
3) Profit!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #178 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Others call it a delay of federal resources because many required procedures were NOT followed or delayed at the state and local levels.

I keep hearing that from those determined to defend Bush at all costs. However, the only specific examples of this I've seen cited so far have been the lies about the Gov. not asking Bush to declare a state of emergency.

Specific examples with links, please - otherwise, I call "bullshit".
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post #179 of 278
The vast majority of the continuing failures of FEMA have nothing to do with the state government. The federal failure of leadership (the title of this thread) by its very nature is a failure independent of failures of the state government.

Some folks have decided to focus on this narrow issue of who requested what at certain points, but the issue goes way beyond that. Sure the state failed, but since Mississippi was apparently in the basically same shape this extreme focus on state and local failures in louisiana is pretty strange.

Plus, as I've now mentioned a number of times, I don't depend on the Louisiana state government. I'm more concerned about the federal government's failures than the failures of the government of 1/50th of the country. If there is an earthquake in california, a volcano in seattle or a bomb in boston, we don't have to worry about blanco screwing it up.
post #180 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
If there is an earthquake in california, a volcano in seattle or a bomb in LA, we don't have to worry about blanco screwing it up.

This is the key. We couldn't even perform when we knew the disaster was coming, knew how strong it was, planned on it, wrote disaster plans for it, prepostioned assests, and in some cases -- like the F&G guys in airboats, where on the scene even while it was happening!

Utter nonsense! Why even spend the tax dollars!!? If something big ever happens, we are all screwed.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #181 of 278
Just so we're clear:

Timline--

Friday, Aug. 26: Gov. Kathleen Blanco declares a state of emergency in Louisiana and requests troop assistance.

Saturday, Aug. 27: Gov. Blanco asks for federal state of emergency. A federal emergency is declared giving federal officials the authority to get involved.

Sunday, Aug. 28: Mayor Ray Nagin orders mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. President Bush warned of Levee failure by National Hurricane Center. National Weather Service predicts area will be "uninhabitable" after Hurricane arrives. First reports of water toppling over the levee appear in local paper.

Monday, Aug. 29: Levee breaches and New Orleans begins to fill with water, Bush travels to Arizona and California to discuss Medicare. FEMA chief finally responds to federal emergency, dispatching employees but giving them two days to arrive on site.

Tuesday, Aug. 30: Mass looting reported, security shortage cited in New Orleans. Pentagon says that local authorities have adequate National Guard units to handle hurricane needs despite governor's earlier request. Bush returns to Crawford for final day of vacation. TV coverage is around-the-clock Hurricane news.

Wednesday, Aug. 31: Tens of thousands trapped in New Orleans including at Convention Center and Superdome in "medieval" conditions. President Bush finally returns to Washington to establish a task force to coordinate federal response. Local authorities run out of food and water supplies.

Thursday, Sept. 1: New Orleans descends into anarchy. New Orleans Mayor issues a "Desperate SOS" to federal government. Bush claims nobody predicted the breach of the levees despite multiple warnings and his earlier briefing.

Friday, Sept. 2: Karl Rove begins Bush administration campaign to blame state and local officialsdespite their repeated requests for help. Bush stages a photo-opdiverting Coast Guard helicopters and crew to act as backdrop for cameras. Levee repair work orchestrated for president's visit and White House press corps.

Saturday, Sept. 3: Bush blames state and local officials. Senior administration official (possibly Rove) caught in a lie claiming Gov. Blanco had not declared a state of emergency or asked for help.

Monday, Sept. 5: New Orleans officials begin to collect their dead.

Every item easily verifiable from multiple sources.

Shut up about how the locals were to blame. If you must be a party to this clusterfuck, for reasons of ideological loyalty, at least have the decency to lend your assent by your silence, instead of carrying water for the worst people in the country.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #182 of 278
Addabox, it's unfortunate that I don't have the time or energy to point out all the wrong and missing information in your "timeline" right now.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #183 of 278
[QUOTE]Originally posted by addabox
[B]Just so we're clear:

Timline--

Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Friday, Aug. 26: Gov. Kathleen Blanco declares a state of emergency in Louisiana and requests troop assistance.

According to this:
On the 26th -- Governor Blanco declares a State of Emergency for all of Louisiana. The President also issues a State of Emergency declaration and directs DHS and FEMA to coordinate disaster relief efforts.
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Saturday, Aug. 27: Gov. Blanco asks for federal state of emergency. A federal emergency is declared giving federal officials the authority to get involved.

I think you're out on a limb here. Wouldn't that have been the 26th?

The rest of these citations are picking and choosing what you want to pay attention to -- enough with the spin. We need to fire some people, prosecute some people, and then dismantle DHS back into it's original components.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #184 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
However, the only specific examples of this I've seen cited so far have been the lies about the Gov. not asking Bush to declare a state of emergency.

Specific examples with links, please - otherwise, I call "bullshit".

I've never said she didn't declare a state of emergency. My claims were that she didn't officially request enough resources in her initial letter. She did not send another official letter to the president until 9/2. I gave some links earlier, but I'll post just one now. This link pretty much lays it all out for you. And that's HER Web site! I see a major vacancy: Why does her press office have NO information about federal requests between Sunday, August 28 and Friday, September 2nd? Phone calls? IMs? Anything?

She froze hotel rates. How kind of her.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #185 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by jamac
In this country we care about and for retarded people. We do not hate them.

We try and give them the impression that they lead a normal life...

This reminds me, there are a good number of disabled people living down the Bayou. I met several who were injured on the oil rigs and needed wheel chairs. There are several retardation centers and many families have retarded children. What will happen to them, what is happening to them right now?
post #186 of 278
Hey, timeliners. Here's a small collection of them that might be useful.
post #187 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
She froze hotel rates. How kind of her.

At least she was not on vacation, playing the banjo.
post #188 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
I've never said she didn't declare a state of emergency. My claims were that she didn't officially request enough resources in her initial letter.

IS that what you claimed?
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Others call it a delay of federal resources because many required procedures were NOT followed or delayed at the state and local levels.

What required procedures were not followed?
You're still short on specifics here.
And I still call bullshit.

There is also this from Aug. 31 that you seem to be missing...

http://www.donaldsensing.com/index.p...ederal-troops/
Quote:
Louisiana Gov. Blanco just said live on FNC that she will ask President Bush to send federal troops to conduct law enforcement in New Orleans and environs. Its hard to see Bush refusing. This step moves the city closer to actual martial law.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/...looting_hk1_17
Quote:
Gov. Kathleen Blanco said she has asked the White House to send more people to help with evacuations and rescues, thereby freeing up National Guardsmen to stop looters.

"We will restore law and order," Blanco said. "What angers me the most is that disasters like this often bring out the worst in people. I will not tolerate this kind of behavior.

And there is this from the link which YOU posted:
Quote:
Date: 9/1/2005

Contact: Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037

Governor Blanco Announces Executive Order

Baton Rouge, LA Governor Blanco today announced the following Executive Order:
Executive Order NO. KBB 2005- 31- provides that pursuant to the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act, R.S. 29:721, et seq., grants emergency powers to the governor, where, she has in consultation with school superintendents, utilized public school buses for transportation of Hurricane Katrina evacuees.
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post #189 of 278
This just in -
CNN is filing suit against the Federal Government, seeking to overturn the prohibition on photographing dead bodies.
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post #190 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
IS that what you claimed?

Yes. If it wasn't clear before, it is now.
Quote:
What required procedures were not followed?
You're still short on specifics here.
And I still call bullshit.

Okay, I used the wrong terminology. I apologize. I was trying to get across that details appear to be sketchy on when she actually requested additional troops and assistance. It wasn't in the Aug. 28 letter to the president. There's nothing else on the governor's Web site about it until Sept. 2.

So she intended to ask for it on Aug. 31. Great.

1) Why not on Aug. 29 or 30 when all the levees were breaking and NO's police force was MIA?
2) When did she actually request it, because according to her Web site it wasn't until two days later on the 2nd.

It should be noted that it appears that the federal government BROKE protocol by unofficially dispatching additional help before it was officially requested. While Blanco was signing her letter on September 2, the additional National Guard troops were already on the way and others were hauling more than 7 million MRE's into the region. Seeing as though Blanco hadn't officially asked for the help or MREs, that was very kind of the feds, don't you think?

By the way, I don't know why you quoted the declaration that allowed officials to use school buses. It doesn't seem germaine to the conversation we've been having, but it's good that somebody found school buses to use since NO's were under water.

Hey listen, as fun as it is to argue with you all and bask in the Bush-bashing, the weekend is here. I don't expect to spend a lot of time replying to you all. Have fun twisting the truth in your quest to bring down the great W.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
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post #191 of 278
Regardless of political stripe. Go read Nicholas Lehmann's piece on New Orleans from the New Yorker.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #192 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Regardless of political stripe. Go read Nicholas Lehmann's piece on New Orleans from the New Yorker.

A good read. Thanks.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #193 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Hey listen, as fun as it is to argue with you all and bask in the Bush-bashing, the weekend is here. I don't expect to spend a lot of time replying to you all. Have fun twisting the truth in your quest to bring down the great W.


Yes, that's exactly why I (and so many other Americans) are so angry with the Federal response, and the man that leads it... the man that appointed the "managers" who had no qualifications for emergency management... the man that subjugated FEMA to the bureaucracy he created... the man who was on vacation before, during, and after the worst natural disaster to hit our nation in 100 years - I'm on a quest to bring him down and am overjoyed by the ammunition against him that this terrible disaster has provided!


And it has NOTHING to do with the fact that I have several friends and many acquaintances who (until last week) live in NOLA, and are now evacuees with no idea about what's next with little details in their lives like their homes and their jobs or businesses.

And, make sure to include many Republican politicians like Trent Lott , and political commentators traditionally very friendly to Bush such as Joe Scarborough and even Tucker Carlson, on your list of people who are highly critical of the Federal response because they are "on a quest to bring down the great W."

It's nice that you wear your Dub-ya hero-worship on your sleeve, though. It makes your reasons for defending him pretty clear.

Have a great weekend. I plan on attending a couple of benefits and donating a few hundred bucks. I only wish I could do more.
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post #194 of 278
Apparently Gore personally airlifted a few hundred katrina victims out of New Orleans who had been stranded at a hospital, but he's refusing to be interviewed about it:
Quote:
On Sept. 1, three days after Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast, Simon learned that Dr. David Kline, a neurosurgeon who operated on Gore's son, Albert, after a life-threatening auto accident in 1989, was trying to get in touch with Gore. Kline was stranded with patients at Charity Hospital in New Orleans.

"The situation was dire and becoming worse by the minute -- food and water running out, no power, 4 feet of water surrounding the hospital and ... corpses outside," Simon wrote.

Gore responded immediately, telephoning Kline and agreeing to underwrite the $50,000 each for the two flights, although Larry Flax, founder of California Pizza Kitchens, later pledged to pay for one of them....

He also recruited two doctors, Spickard and Gore's cousin, retired Col. Dar LaFon, a specialist in internal medicine who once ran the military hospital in Baghdad.

Most critically, Gore worked to cut through government red tape, personally calling Gov. Phil Bredesen to get Tennessee's support and U.S. Transportation Secretary Norm Mineta to secure landing rights in New Orleans.

About 140 people, many of them sick, landed in Knoxville on Sept. 3. The second flight, with 130 evacuees, landed the next day in Chattanooga.
post #195 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
Apparently Gore personally airlifted a few hundred katrina victims out of New Orleans who had been stranded at a hospital, but he's refusing to be interviewed about it:

The hell of that is that what he did was probably "illegal". I've heard of ex-Special Forces getting Marriott people out of NO -- probably just as "illegal".

Me, my wife, and the bottle of Syrah we just split declare that ANYTIME you have supplies headed for a desaster zone and someone says turn around -- you have a serious problem.

Ohh nooo Mr. Wal-Mart trucker guy, they don't need that water -- and don't take it personally, five minutes ago we told a Red Cross convoy the same thing.

Two words: Jail Time

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #196 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Two words: Jail Time

What ever happened to the other two: civil disobedience? If I were that trucker, I'd just have said, Fuck All Y'all!! Try and stop me! I understand if an airport doesn't allow you to land, but if Geraldo got to the Convention Center then any retard could have.

--B
...


...
...


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post #197 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Me, my wife, and the bottle of Syrah we just split declare that ANYTIME you have supplies headed for a desaster zone and someone says turn around -- you have a serious problem.

Me, mine and what's left of this day-old montepulciano d'abruzzo concur.

I think you made a really good point in the other thread, too: is DHS just bloat? This is one of those times when that whole tiny government (but not privitization/cronyism) thing starts to look great. Midwinter made a good related point, though: it scary when I start thinking that military command is the answer.
post #198 of 278
Another round of Feds vs. Blanco:
Quote:
Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said that radio equipment and portable generators she requested from the federal government a week ago had yet to arrive. Federal officials said they were tracking down the status of the items.

Anyone know if the trailers Trent Lott requested have made it out of the warehouse in Georgia yet?

More perspective from a conservative Mississippi smalltown newspaper:
Quote:
Damage control is what the Bush administration does best. Not preventing damage or controlling real physical and human damage; their specialty is political damage control.

The official line now on the criminal failure to do what was needed to save thousands of lives last week is: 1) We shouldn't look back; forget about the people who died and why; let's look forward. 2) Any failures were on the part of the Democratic governor of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans, not the president.

Both prongs of Karl Rove's political strategy reflect the administration's utter irresponsibility. First, they don't do the responsible thing. Then, when something horrible happens, they say don't worry about who was responsible and, anyway, responsibility was someone else's.

This is not about politics. Republican Gov. Rick Perry of Texas deserves praise for his great efforts to take in huge numbers of people displaced by the storm. It is about people suffering and dying because of the incompetence, indifference and irresponsibility of the Bush administration. Have the gullible people who blame "liberal Democrats" not noticed all the criticism of the administration coming from Republican politicians, The Wall Street Journal, and even Fox News?

The governor of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans are at fault? Did the people who let the administration move their lips not see Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin pleading for the federal government to send in assistance?

Who has argued the federal government is a beast that must be starved? Who is it that slashed the budgets of the agencies that would have strengthened the levees? Who is it that sent the National Guard to Iraq? Who is it that put a clueless man in charge of FEMA?

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job!" President Bush told FEMA Director Michael Brown last Friday.

"Brownie," the political crony Bush made director of the agency in charge of dealing with disasters, said that he didn't know until the Thursday after the hurricane that there were some 25,000 hungry, thirsty, and in some cases dying people at the New Orleans Civic Center.

"Heck-of-a-job" Brownie's agency blocked people trying to deliver water and fuel to New Orleans, kept the Coast Guard and Navy from delivering supplies and providing medical facilities, and, according to Republican U.S. Sen. Trent Lott, earlier this week had 20,000 trailers desperately needed in Mississippi "sitting in Atlanta" because the agency wouldn't release them until contracts were signed.

Will the administration and those who sing whatever tune it plays now classify Sen. Lott as a liberal Democrat?

For his part, Bush told jokes while people died. During a touch-down at the New Orleans airport on last Friday, with people literally dying within a hundred yards, Bush chuckled about his hell-raising visits to New Orleans when he was a boozing young man.

Nero really didn't fiddle while Rome burned, but Bush joked while New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast flooded, starved, thirsted and died.

We've been hearing a lot about zero-tolerance. Here's my new zero tolerance policy: Zero tolerance for anyone gullible enough to continue to support the most incompetent, irresponsible, lying, indifferent and, yes, un-Christian ("For I was hungry and you gave me no food . . .") president in American history.

Criticizing such incompetence, which leaves us vulnerable to attack as well as natural disaster, is not partisan; it is patriotic. It is covering up those failings that is partisan and unpatriotic.

EDIT - Link
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post #199 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
It's nice that you wear your Dub-ya hero-worship on your sleeve, though. It makes your reasons for defending him pretty clear.

"Hero-worship?" Thats a good one.

No, the difference between me and most of the rest of you here is that I am open-minded enough to judge the president on a case-by-case basis. The tone I've consistently heard here (at AI) is of negativity toward the president because the U.S. went to war and you didn't like it. Hell, maybe you didn't like him even before that. There's a very liberal undercurrent on these boards, so it wouldn't surprise me. Now, you hold a negative view about him on everything because you hold a grudge. As far as you are concerned, he can do no right.

There are many things about Bush that I have major concerns about. Mike Brown (head of FEMA) is one of them. Nominating Roberts as Chief Justice of the SCOTUS is another. I absolutely can't stand Karl Rove.

(gasp!)

What did he say?

In the case of the hurricane disaster, I will hold Bush accountable for his poor selection of a FEMA director and other blindingly poor decisions. I will also hold congress accountable for approving Brown. What I will NOT do is make Bush a scapegoat, singling him out among all those who failed the gulf coast region, just because that's what we do as Bush bashers.

I swear, it's not even enjoyable coming into AppleOutsider. There's no true discussion in here. It's just a bunch of liberal vultures waiting to swoop down upon any poor soul that dares have any view not as liberal as theirs.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread:

Do you who have argued with me about Gov. Blanco have ANY issues with how she has handled Katrina? If so, I'd like to hear them. Many of you say all levels of government have failed, but then only focus on the feds and Bush. What did Blanco do wrong? What was her "failure of leadership?" What about Mayor Nagin?
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
post #200 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
from a conservative Mississippi smalltown newspaper

FYI: That's the paper of record of the state, not a small town podunk paper. It's the Jackson, MS paper, and was written by a professor at the local traditional liberal arts college.

You want small-town, look at the stuff from my hometown paper.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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