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post #41 of 278
Thread Starter 
I hope Im right . . . \
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #42 of 278
I have read every post in this thread and the Barbara Bush mp3 clip really gives example to the nature of our failed leadership of this country.

spin, lies and a 2nd helping of further insult. Welcome to the Bush world.

Our federal authorities failed the people of this country. There needs to be reform and it needs to start at the top. I do not expect our "so called" President to do anything responsible in response to this failure of leadership.

Our people are paying the price to have this President in office.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #43 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Fellowship
Our people are paying the price to have this President in office.

Oh, come now, Fellows! Just think about all the things the Bush administration has been right about!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #44 of 278
From my old stomping grounds:

Quote:
Saturday the mayor settled for FEMA agents Mike Jones and James E. Smith. They met with DuPree at the Forrest County Emergency Management District's emergency operations center.

The mayor said the FEMA representatives asked about 15 people gathered at the emergency operations center if they needed help.

"I'd say there was a problem when someone from the federal government has to ask us if we need help," he said.

FEMA representatives couldn't explain why it took five days for the agency to arrive in Hattiesburg.

link.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #45 of 278
Go here -- it's a little stilted, by says a lot.

I heard a clip of the mayor of NO from Sunday night before the storm hit, when it was still a category five -- it sounded like he was on Valium, getting ready for a Saints tailgate party. My mouth dropped open, he told the reporters 'yea, looks like we'll have major structural failure, but hey, we're gonna put in a curfew tonight, and oh by the way the levees will be topped and we're gonna have significant flooding', he even went so far to say that he expected to see 'lot of boats the next day looking for survivors'. He was asked if he would open the convention center and the Airport -- "like they did during George" and he said no.

??

Then there is this business with Blanco, who seems to be having a something of a power struggle with the administration, over this. I'd like to see that probed. As far as I can tell, there was little response from the state, and that FEMA had to not so much 'coordinate' but start from scratch.

But, when it became clear on day 2 that Louisiana is run by slumlords FEMA should have stepped in. Babies died in the Superdome waiting for someone to show up with water.

The mayor, the governor, and the head of FEMA need to resign and be prosecuted for crimes against humanity, and Chertoff needs to resign, and the department of Homeland security disbanded.

Go here for a idea of how much needs to change before this sort of thing can be mitigated in the future.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #46 of 278
Keith Olberman --

But, nationally, these are leaders who won re-election last year largely by portraying their opponents as incapable of keeping the country safe. These are leaders who regularly pressure the news media in this country to report the reopening of a school or a power station in Iraq, and defies its citizens not to stand up and cheer. Yet they couldn't even keep one school or power station from being devastated by infrastructure collapse in New Orleans even though the government had heard all the "chatter" from the scientists and city planners and hurricane centers and some group whose purposes the government couldn't quite discern... a group called The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

And most chillingly of all, this is the Law and Order and Terror government. It promised protection or at least amelioration against all threats: conventional, radiological, or biological.

It has just proved that it cannot save its citizens from a biological weapon called standing water.

Mr. Bush has now twice insisted that, "we are not satisfied," with the response to the manifold tragedies along the Gulf Coast. I wonder which "we" he thinks he's speaking for on this point. Perhaps it's the administration, although we still don't know where some of them are. Anybody seen the Vice President lately? The man whose message this time last year was, 'I'll Protect You, The Other Guy Will Let You Die'?

I don't know which 'we' Mr. Bush meant.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
post #47 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Olbermann swings for the fences.

A must see.

That was awesome. I'm truly stunned.
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
post #48 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
But, nationally, these are leaders who won re-election last year largely by portraying their opponents as incapable of keeping the country safe. These are leaders who regularly pressure the news media in this country to report the reopening of a school or a power station in Iraq, and defies its citizens not to stand up and cheer. Yet they couldn't even keep one school or power station from being devastated by infrastructure collapse in New Orleans even though the government had heard all the "chatter" from the scientists and city planners and hurricane centers and some group whose purposes the government couldn't quite discern... a group called The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

This was the most straightforward disaster that we can fall prey to. The most lead time: everyone knew it was coming, everyone knew what would happen.

The local apparatus never materialized.

The entire Federal apparatus collapsed. The Bataan, a Hospital ship, 400 beds, helicopters, etc. is just sitting in the Gulf with no orders.


And here is the kicker, Two things:
The first is that billions of dollars are headed for one of the most corrupt governments in the country.

The second is that the bureaucratic mentality is likely to push for more bureaucracy, more oversight -- we need to move in the opposite direction, and devolve the DHS into it's previous agencies. We have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to do this.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #49 of 278
The next six months will truly be interesting.

Somehow conservatives will blame ALL of this on liberals. And American will eat it up. And nothing will change.

The Red South will pick up more conservative seats in the house and senate.

Chertoff will receive a medal of honor.

The N.O. mayor will be hung.

In three years when Trent Lott has rebuilt his coastal home and Bush has left the White House, Bush will sip lemonade on his porch and laugh his ass off.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
post #50 of 278
I don't get it? Why is the local government blameless? I'm asking an honest question here.
post #51 of 278
Chertoff is gone Northgate, wait and see.

I want to know why the evacuees had to go en masse to Texas, and not Louisiana.

I want to know why the evacuation plans of the city were not implemented.

I want to know why the governor dithered 24 hours on her disaster declaration.

I want to know why people died while the Bataan sat by with EVERYTHING they needed to save those babies.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #52 of 278
The evacuation plan was implemented.

Standard practice is to shelter those who cannot escape.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #53 of 278
For those of you imagining that heads will roll, you might consider that the architects and implementers of each and every tragic misstep in Iraq have gotten nothing but praise from the President.

The people who got canned are the ones that insisted on telling the truth about what was going to be needed to do the job right and what was actually going on after we went in.

DMZ, I wouldn't worry about Louisiana's corruption: this is going to be a federal pork fest, just like Iraq. Halliburton is already there.

Bush is pushing for total federalization of the rebuilding process, meaning billions and billions of dollars directed straight from the White House with no oversight. This, of course, will be defended as "cutting red tape" and "streamlining the process".

Any Dems that complain that this admin doesn't have much of a track record spending blank checks, ala the billions gone missing in Iraq, will be accused of "playing politics" with the future of the fine, fine, people of NO.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #54 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
The evacuation plan was implemented.

Standard practice is to shelter those who cannot escape.

-only partially, most of the plans on paper they didn't follow.

addabox:

There needs to be a grassroots public outcry against the Federal tentacles going even deeper than they already have.

Maybe the governors of the various states will send LA their pork from the Highway bill.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #55 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I want to know why the governor dithered 24 hours on her disaster declaration.

State of Emergency declared on August 26th.

Quote:
Press Release
Date: 8/26/2005


GOVERNOR BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY

BATON ROUGE, LA--Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco today issued Proclamation No. 48 KBB 2005, declaring a state of emergency for the state Louisiana as Hurricane Katrina poses an imminent threat, carrying severe storms, high winds, and torrential rain that may cause flooding and damage to private property and public facilities, and threaten the safety and security of the citizens of the state of Louisiana The state of emergency extends from Friday, August 26, 2005, through Sunday, September 25, 2005, unless terminated sooner.

from http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Relea...ail.asp?id=973

I know it's not the same as a Disaster Declaration, but in any case I figure she did the right thing by hiring Witt, who is worth 100 Browns.

--B
...


...
...


...
post #56 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
-only partially, most of the plans on paper they didn't follow.

addabox:

There needs to be a grassroots public outcry against the Federal tentacles going even deeper than they already have.

Maybe the governors of the various states will send LA their pork from the Highway bill.

Fuck your anti-govenment bullshit . . . look at what happens in a world without oversite!!!

I'm sick to death of this idiotic ideology!

Its time we put it to bed as the raving phantasies of spoiled children who have no idea how important it is to make sure that the Public does not continue to get shafted!!!


and BTW:
Quote:
by Hunter
Mon Sep 5th, 2005 at 19:16:38 PDT


Once is an accident. Twice is a plan.

As noted, the Washington Post got burned today by a "senior Bush
official" who told them that Gov. Blanco of Louisiana had never declared a
state of emergency in the site -- a claim the Post printed as fact. Yet the
claim was demonstrably false and by late afternoon the Post had been
compelled to print a correction.

This week's Newsweek contains the same false claim -- and though their
recital of the anecdote is unsourced, common sense suggests that someone or
some operation fed them both the same line, which neither organization
checked out before running.

Monday's Times, not surprisingly, confirms that the White House damage
control operation is being run by Karl Rove and Dan Bartlett.

Add it up.

So WaPo has made a correction; Newsweek hasn't. Will either one now report
that a "senior Bush official" flatly lied to them, using the cover of
reporter-promised anonymity to do it?

Or is the media, while the stench of the bodies is still heavy in the air,
already back to providing unofficial cover for administration talking
points?

There's been some inspiring reporting coming out of the shattered towns of
Louisiana and Mississippi -- reporters showing their humanity on their
sleeves, reporters not afraid to ask the impertinent but possibly
live-saving questions, reporters more than willing to call out politicians
on live camera when they spin away from or flatly lie on known facts. It's
been shocking to see, and a credit to them and their industry.

But why is that the exception? Why does it take day after day of reporting
on struggles for food, struggles for water, searches for loved ones,
searches that ended badly, and a lake full of bodies to wear a reporter down
to the point where their voice shakes, their hands tremble, and they call
out the officials who are lying to them right there, on the air, and make
sure the whole world knows the actual truth?

Shouldn't that be the default position of any journalist actually doing
their job? Shouldn't the search for the truth, and the outrage at the lie,
be the very basis of actual reporting? Why should it take that momentary
loss of control, that sudden spark of anger caused by unimaginable disaster,
to get to that point of brilliance and duty?

How have we come to this point, where neutrality of journalism meant
neutrality to the truth itself, meant reporting fact and lie alongside each
other, in equivalence, without emotion, without remorse? Where reporting
that an official has flatly lied is not even considered, by the top
reporters of the top news outlets in this country, unless you are one of
those few reporters knee-deep in a swirling eddy that contains the
disintegrated remnants of a hundred thousand families, and of ten thousand
lives?

Will there be a point, as a result of this crisis of nature, man and
government, where this smell, this stink of loss combined with the acrid
scent of government bluster and feint, will settle in the nostrils of the
journalists even far from the scene in Washington, and they will carry
forward with something resembling the integrity they once all claimed, in
better times, to have?
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #57 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Fuck your anti-govenment bullshit . . . look at what happens in a world without oversite!!!

I'm sick to death of this idiotic ideology!

Its time we put it to bed as the raving phantasies of spoiled children who have no idea how important it is to make sure that the Public does not continue to get shafted!!!


and BTW:

It has nothing to do with "anti-goverenment" anything -- it has to do with the diminishing marginal utility of the size of Federal Buracracy.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #58 of 278
BREAKING "NEWS:"

post #59 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
It has nothing to do with "anti-goverenment" anything -- it has to do with the diminishing marginal utility of the size of Federal Buracracy.

As I replied to you PM:

Quote:
dmz wrote on 09-06-2005 08:18 PM:
What's wrong pfflam -- the Triangle factory reference wasn't enough for you?

I'm as mad about this as you are, but more fiefdoms upon fiefdoms -- each individual levee in NO has a governing board, and that's just at the local level -- can't help.

I think we've found levels of bureaucracy that make what Deniro fixed in Price's apartment in Brazil look simplistic.

You know . . .that kind of thinking had a place when we were combatting the real bureacratic hells of Communism.

Now the hell is a planned and total disenfranchisement of the very notion of a Public Good and Public Space and Interest . . . in favor of the interests that supposedly cut-through the mess, but in reality only cut-through to their own interests . . namely, entities formed for the purposes of achieving a 'bottom-line' . . . if you think that 'bottom-line' in all cases equals the same thing as having perspectives that value justice and civilization then you're deeply deeply misguided . . .

The reactionary anti-regulation mentality has proven to be the source of so many of the past decades economic/ social failures, from the rolling-black outs in Ca, to Enron et al. to the cronyism of KBR and all the billions up in smoke, to this sort of less-is-more idiocy that has left the people without a simple means of being prepared and tackling problems that are not in themselves going to spawn profit . . . in other words: the safety and livelyhood of people for people's sake . .. not for profit's sake.

You pretend to be a Christian but then you eat up the rhetoric of the wolves that want to have their machine be completely without scrutiny, and untouchable by any concern that is other than their own concern, which, of course is noting but devouring!!

It isn't merely something that kinda happens, its actually the Law: corporations have to forgo any concerns that are not driven by the bottom-line . . . otherwise they are breaching the contract with their investors (and don't fool yourself and imagine that piddly little middle-class investors are what is meant here, they mean the big-investors, the kind that get to reap the booty of the unscroupulous business practices and run before the lies show) . . .its the law, they are structurally made to NOT care about concerns like justice, humanity, health of the physical world that sustains ordinary life, and civilization.

Dog-eat-dog without balance is cultural and civic suicide . . . just as, complete centralization and bureacracy is . . . but we've been railing far too long against the spector of 'Communism' . .. moving so far in the opposite direction that we have become the negative example of the opposite . . . we need to get back to balance and re-establish a civilization where real DEMOCRACY can take place . . . and for the People to have a voice (Democracy) we need overseeing institutions who's whole reason-for-being is concern for that voice.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #60 of 278
Quotes from Brit Hume's Special Report 9/5/05
Quote:
Ultimately the President's Failure?
New Orleans local newspaper, the Times-Picayune (search), says every FEMA official should be fired for their, feeble response to Hurricane Katrina." And the papers editors say the aftermath is "ultimately the presidents failure."

But the paper has had nothing but praise for the performance of New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin (search), finding no fault with his failure to enforce the mandatory evacuation order he issued last Sunday. That order was issued only after the director of the National Hurricane Center called Nagin at home on Saturday night and after President Bush pleaded with the mayor the next day to evacuate New Orleans in a mandatory way.

Some people, however, wouldnt leave no matter what, including 60- year-old John Martin, a self-described druid and voodoo priest, who says he couldnt evacuate New Orleans because, he said one of his four snakes had gone missing.

Listening to the Times?

A New York Times editor, oh, by the way, asked, "Why New Orleans levees remained so inadequate? Where was Congress before it wandered off to vacation engaged in slashing the budget for correcting some of the gaping holes in the areas flood protection?"

The answer may be that they were reading old "Times" editorials. In 1993, the Times wrote that Washington should, "resist pressure to spend more on flood-control projects." In 1997, the Times praised moderate Republicans for protecting the environment by blocking flood-control spending.

And in April of this year, the Times ripped a Senate bill that would have injected $17 billion into flood-control measures, including what the Times called a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River, saying that bill was "bad legislation."
MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

post #61 of 278
Thread Starter 
More FOX lies . . . useless stories about snakes and lies about Bush in order to draw attention away from patent failure of leadership by the leadership and to paint the people of NO as evil serpent worshipping devils not worth caring about.

& 93 flood control . . . gaurantee this is not concerning NO's levees but rather is concerning the expansion of the destructin of the wetlands . . . one of the very sources of the flooding in the first place . . .


BTW: ever notice how close the name Murdoch is to the beguiling demon Molloch in the Book of Kings?!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #62 of 278
Blame the victims.

The people who died in the World Trade Center deserved what they got, after all clearly they were working in the symbolic financial center of the US and even worse, when it became clear that the building they were in or across from was burning they decided to stay to "get work done."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #63 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
As I replied to you PM:

You know . . .that kind of thinking had a place when we were combatting the real bureacratic hells of Communism.

Now the hell is a planned and total disenfranchisement of the very notion of a Public Good and Public Space and Interest . . . in favor of the interests that supposedly cut-through the mess, but in reality only cut-through to their own interests . . namely, entities formed for the purposes of achieving a 'bottom-line' . . . if you think that 'bottom-line' in all cases equals the same thing as having perspectives that value justice and civilization then you're deeply deeply misguided . . .

The reactionary anti-regulation mentality has proven to be the source of so many of the past decades economic/ social failures, from the rolling-black outs in Ca, to Enron et al. to the cronyism of KBR and all the billions up in smoke, to this sort of less-is-more idiocy that has left the people without a simple means of being prepared and tackling problems that are not in themselves going to spawn profit . . . in other words: the safety and livelyhood of people for people's sake . .. not for profit's sake.

You pretend to be a Christian but then you eat up the rhetoric of the wolves that want to have their machine be completely without scrutiny, and untouchable by any concern that is other than their own concern, which, of course is noting but devouring!!

It isn't merely something that kinda happens, its actually the Law: corporations have to forgo any concerns that are not driven by the bottom-line . . . otherwise they are breaching the contract with their investors (and don't fool yourself and imagine that piddly little middle-class investors are what is meant here, they mean the big-investors, the kind that get to reap the booty of the unscroupulous business practices and run before the lies show) . . .its the law, they are structurally made to NOT care about concerns like justice, humanity, health of the physical world that sustains ordinary life, and civilization.

Dog-eat-dog without balance is cultural and civic suicide . . . just as, complete centralization and bureacracy is . . . but we've been railing far too long against the spector of 'Communism' . .. moving so far in the opposite direction that we have become the negative example of the opposite . . . we need to get back to balance and re-establish a civilization where real DEMOCRACY can take place . . . and for the People to have a voice (Democracy) we need overseeing institutions who's whole reason-for-being is concern for that voice.

The last paragraph is good, the excesses of Capitalism are just as bad as slavery by any other name.

But

In the 'true democracy' department, we're going to need something more than the 'rights of man' declaration, something more cohesive than what's triggered everything from the French Revolution to the Isle of Wight concert debacle; and that cohesiveness is what you lovely lefties/agnostics/materialists lack. (not the goodwill, or intentions)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #64 of 278
Thread Starter 
You know what? . . . if you start to value making sense, you might start to see the reasoning behind other people's perspectivs . . . and maybe your own might start to be reasonable itself too . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #65 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
BREAKING "NEWS:"


Damm thing caught my eye as well. CNN is really going down hill.
post #66 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by DanMacMan
Quotes from Brit Hume's Special Report 9/5/05

Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
More FOX lies

As pfflam says, a trip to lexisnexis shows that Brit is indeed distorting.

The 93 editorial, for instance, is talking about the midwest, not New Orleans, and it doesn't quite say what Hume says it does:
Quote:
Weeks of rainfall in the Midwest have flooded countless acres of open farmland and even cities and towns supposedly protected by dams and levees. Flooding causes more damage each year than other natural catastrophes, and this year's in middle America will set a record of its own when it finally crests.

Huge amounts of relief will be needed, and should be forthcoming. But no less needed is a thorough review of measures to limit the threat of flooding in years to come.

...

Budget constraints and environmental concerns have slowed new flood control projects in recent years. Congress should resist pressure to spend more now because of this year's floods; these projects need closer evaluation than they've gotten in the past.

Furthermore, the 97 editorial is about the everglades and the problems the flood-control systems have caused there.
post #67 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
You know what? . . . if you start to value making sense, you might start to see the reasoning behind other people's perspectivs . . . and maybe your own might start to be reasonable itself too . .

Yes, of course.

But you're dodging my point -- I don't doubt you're intentions, at all. But really, what are you bringing to the table philosophically that is going to make the difference here; without running off either the deep end of egalitarianism, or the shallow end of repackaged social darwinism?

What do we do? Coerce people to be responsible/free/fair/sensible/caring?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #68 of 278
Thread Starter 
its gotten to the point with FOX that they would be able to make a statement like 'New Orleans has been flooded' into some kind of distortion of the truth!!!!

Some day, somehow, some loner, quiet type, isn't going to take it anymore and Molloch will give way to a thin Silence . . . not that I would ever advocate for such a thing . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #69 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
'New Orleans has been flooded' into some kind of distortion of the truth!!!!

Actually according to DHS "Lousianna is a city underwater" I'm sure someone conducted a study.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #70 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Yes, of course.

But you're dodging my point -- I don't doubt you're intentions, at all. But really, what are you bringing to the table philosophically that is going to make the difference here; without running off either the deep end of egalitarianism, or the shallow end of repackaged social darwinism?

What do we do? Coerce people to be responsible/free/fair/sensible/caring?

I don't need to talk Philosophically . . .. we don't need to philosphize . . . we simply need to have real unbiased, non-corporate interested entities, with an eye towards the 'Common-Good' and the maintenance of real Public and Civic life take real and immediate roles in making sure that people aren't getting shafted by the Bottom-line'!!!

This includes simple things like giving real power to the SEC and not filling that position with a corporate stooge yes-man, hindlicker!!

others will follow but perhaps we should start another thread . . just don't get wordy and take away from the very real necessities of civilization by talking pointlessly about non-existant ifs-ands-or-buts . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #71 of 278
Hume:
Quote:
And in April of this year, the Times ripped a Senate bill that would have injected $17 billion into flood-control measures, including what the Times called a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River, saying that bill was "bad legislation."

The Times:
Quote:
Among these projects is a $2.7 billion boondoggle on the Mississippi River that has twice flunked inspection by the National Academy of Sciences.

...

Pointed in the right direction, the corps can accomplish engineering marvels without corollary damage -- the dredging of New York Harbor is a case in point. But too often senators like Christopher Bond, Republican of Missouri, and Trent Lott, Republican of Mississippi, point it in exactly the wrong direction. The most notorious example is the Mississippi River project, a lock-building plan. It has failed two reviews by the National Academy of Sciences on economic and environmental grounds.

Note that the lock plan was NOT for New Orleans, it was for the upper mississippi. More info:
Quote:
"We rarely applaud the Bush Administration's record but this is one action that is hard to dispute," stated PEER Executive Director Jeff Ruch, whose organization represents Corps employees who have disclosed previous attempts by Corps management to manipulate study data in an effort to justify this project....

The Upper Mississippi lock expansion project has been criticized by the Army's own Inspector General, OMB, and three National Academies of Sciences reports for using faulty economic models, unrealistic traffic forecasts, and continuing a Corps-wide bias towards large-scale, expensive structural solutions while ignoring inexpensive non-structural alternatives such as the scheduling of barge traffic. At the same time, barge traffic on these rivers has been mired in a now more than decade-long decline, further dampening the need for bigger locks.
post #72 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
I don't need to talk Philosophically . . .

Oh, but yes! You luuuv it. Maybe if we enforced the 'shoot the looters' policy in the Capitol rotunda.

Seriously, I don't think I can get very far on that without using the "G" word. That and I'm trying to render calculus art 'areas of regions between two curves' without using Mathematica. what fun

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #73 of 278
It just never ends.......

The Salt Lake Tribune has a story on how firefighters brought in from around the country are cooling their heals at the Atlanta Sheraton while they get trained on how to be "FEMA ambassadors" so they can hand out fliers.

Quote:
ATLANTA - Not long after some 1,000 firefighters sat down for eight hours of training, the whispering began: "What are we doing here?"
___As New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin pleaded on national television for firefighters - his own are exhausted after working around the clock for a week - a battalion of highly trained men and women sat idle Sunday in a muggy Sheraton Hotel conference room in Atlanta.
___ Many of the firefighters, assembled from Utah and throughout the United States by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, thought they were going to be deployed as emergency workers.
___ Instead, they have learned they are going to be community-relations officers for FEMA, shuffled throughout the Gulf Coast region to disseminate fliers and a phone number: 1-800-621-FEMA.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #74 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
It just never ends.......

The Salt Lake Tribune has a story on how firefighters brought in from around the country are cooling their heals at the Atlanta Sheraton while they get trained on how to be "FEMA ambassadors" so they can hand out fliers.

And:
Quote:
Firefighters say they want to brave the heat, the debris-littered roads, the poisonous cottonmouth snakes and fire ants and travel into pockets of Louisiana where many people have yet to receive emergency aid.
But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.

post #75 of 278
As much as I hate to admit it Auntie gets it right.

Pretty fair and fairly damning.

Although, Chertoff's excuses guarantee he wont get fired, as it appears he'll be leaving anyway due to a mental... er... medical disability.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #76 of 278
It's strangely quiet from the conservatives on this board.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
post #77 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
It's strangely quiet from the conservatives on this board.

They're waiting for Uncle Karl to tell them who to demonize. It's just that the smear machine has its work cut out for it this time.

Maybe the poor of New Orleans disgraced themselves in Viet Nam?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #78 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
It's strangely quiet from the conservatives on this board.

It's hard for them to reply when they've all be band by the moderators.
post #79 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Maybe the poor of New Orleans disgraced themselves in Viet Nam?

Speaking of that, I found it odd that Cheney recently spoke at the 73rd National Convention of the Military Order of the Purple Heart.

Quote:
The Purple Heart is the only award that comes not through any recommendation or approval, but as a matter of right to those wounded in combat. It is also known as "the medal that no one ever tries to earn."

But all of you did earn it. And in so doing you took your place among the men and women who suffered most to protect this nation. You put your life on the line for the United States of America. You bled in freedom's cause, and you have the nation's gratitude.

As combat veterans you know the toughest realities of the battlefield, and you have seen fellow Americans give the last full measure of devotion in defense of our country. My old friend Joe Foss, who earned both the Purple Heart and the Medal of Honor in World War II, used to say, "Those of us who lived have to represent those who didn't make it."

I know that all of you feel the same way. And I know your fallen comrades would be proud of you -- not just for your service in uniform, but for your enduring service as patriotic citizens. You look out for each other, and move swiftly to the side of veterans in need. You build and care for war memorials across our country. You stand behind our men and women in uniform, and welcome home returning soldiers. For those who have been wounded, you give the moral support and encouragement that only you can give. And like every generation of veterans, you are a daily example of the values of personal responsibility, physical and moral strength, and unselfish courage.

I guess the New Orleans poor have already been swift-boated.
post #80 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
They're waiting for Uncle Karl to tell them who to demonize. It's just that the smear machine has its work cut out for it this time.

Maybe the poor of New Orleans disgraced themselves in Viet Nam?

Jeez, dude. Don't you get it? The New Orleans poor, like the Iraqis, disappoint us by failing to take advantage of the beautiful American Dream that they have been given.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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