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The definitive statement: failure of Leadership - Page 3  

post #81 of 278
It seems to me that the Mayor and Governor screwed up the evacuation (even though it was well planned, and Bush phoned them and urged them to do it on Saturday - they had the busses that they could have used to evacuate, and they did not do it).

FEMA is a bunch of useless twits, with numerious ways of failing to help and making the situation worse. They represent the worst that the Federal government has to offer - people willing to let others die in order to preserve the beaurocratic pecking order. Sending 1000 firefighters to hand out fliers is a criminal act.

But the only thing that Bush did wrong is appoint the wrong guy to head FEMA. Not only did he urge the evacuation, but when he saw that it was not going to work he kicked out FEMA and sent in the military.

I think that Bush did a good job, considering the circumstances.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #82 of 278
It's not just Brown who's an incompetent appointee.

Quote:
Both the NYT and WP could have told us about the now-questioned qualifications of Brown's underlings, namely his chief of staff (a former event planner for Bush) and his deputy chief of staff (a former flack for ... Bush).

link.

--B
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post #83 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
I think that Bush did a good job, considering the circumstances.

Yeah, I think Bush did a good job, too. Except for the cronyism that's cost hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of lives. And the photo op with a guitar while New Orleans drowned. Aside from that, Bush has been great!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #84 of 278
The biggest thing that has demonstrated Bush's failure here and as a president is that when there was a vacuum of leadership in this crisis, Bush basically said "It's not my responsibility." And he's continuing to take that attitude with the his whole proposed "investigation." Rather than saying it was unacceptable and then being a leader and working to fix it, he just says it's unacceptable, but not his problem and that maybe when it's over he'll figure out who to pin it on.
post #85 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Yeah, I think Bush did a good job, too. Except for the cronyism that's cost hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of lives. And the photo op with a guitar while New Orleans drowned. Aside from that, Bush has been great!

I agree - those were his two contributions to the disaster.

However - I doubt that he appointed the head of FEMA thinking that the guy was a screw up, he probably trusted the guy and thought that he would do a good job - too bad he did not appoint Giuliani as the head of FEMA.

If it was so obvious that this guy was unsuitable for the post, why was there no outcry when he was appointed?
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #86 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
I agree - those were his two contributions to the disaster.

However - I doubt that he appointed the head of FEMA thinking that the guy was a screw up, he probably trusted the guy and thought that he would do a good job - too bad he did not appoint Giuliani as the head of FEMA.

If it was so obvious that this guy was unsuitable for the post, why was there no outcry when he was appointed?

Well, why was there no outcry when Joe Allbaugh was originally appointed FEMA director? Allbaugh? Campaign director in 2000. Brown? His deputy and former judge of Arabian horse judges.

And Giuliani? I'd rather the head of FEMA be, you know, someone who has worked in some kind of disaster management capacitynot a politician.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #87 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
I agree - those were his two contributions to the disaster.

However - I doubt that he appointed the head of FEMA thinking that the guy was a screw up, he probably trusted the guy and thought that he would do a good job - too bad he did not appoint Giuliani as the head of FEMA.

If it was so obvious that this guy was unsuitable for the post, why was there no outcry when he was appointed?

Because to criticise your President is to spit in the face of all the Founding Fathers while defecating on the stars and bars and calling Jesus Christ a faggot.

There's a war on. Keep up. Only liberal traitors criticise George Bush.
post #88 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by giant
And he's continuing to take that attitude with the his whole proposed "investigation."

Your use of quotes is correct. From the source I cited above:

Quote:
Asked about the government's response, President Bush stuck by the playbook and gently suggested that state and local officials should share the blame. But what the papers focus on is his promise to "lead an investigation to find out what went right and what went wrong." Presumably riffing off that, the NYT's lead headline reads in part: "U.S. INQUIRY IS SET."

The only problem: Nothing was "set." As the Los Angeles Times points out up high, the president avoided putting a timeframe on the "investigation." And as the NYT itself notes, the White House even backed away from the I-word, preferring to call the eventual inquiry an "analysis." "There will be a time to do a thorough analysis," said spokesman Scott McClellan. "Now is not the time to do that."

Though the news pages don't seem to touch it, the president's insistence that he'll "lead" the inquiry fits a pattern. The last "investigation" the president set up was the WMD commission. It was endowed with a limited mandate that excluded one of the central questions. There is one place that addresses the relevant context: a NYT editorial.

Oh yeah, and

Quote:
The Post also says that for the moment House Republicans are still sticking by their proposal to cut funding for Louisiana flood control. "We are committed to living within our budget," said the Appropriations Committee spokesman.

And also

Quote:
foreign offers of assistanceeverything from a Swedish water purification system to Canadian rescue boatshave been caught up "in bureaucratic entanglements, in most cases, at the Federal Emergency Management Agency."

--B
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post #89 of 278
Thread Starter 
NO!! The Party line is to blame the other guy!!!

Don't believe a word of it-!!!! . . . this FOX news attitude that Bush was earnestly pleading on some phone somehere is an absolute baldfaced lie-!!!

Don't let partisan positioning dictate how you decide to re-interpret what we all watched and heard and saw clearly: a failure of Federal Leadership . . . that was plainly evident, and lasted for a LONG TIME

a long time, time during which a REAL LEADER would have been able to get things done!!

BUSHCO IS LYING

or here: A PDF

Or even BEST, an official LETTER TO BUSH requesting emergency materials and responce from Blanco

in PDF form


also, here is a good article about why the BushCo's re-organizing of FEMA and DHS has systematically made it very hard for the federal Governmnet to work in coordination with state and local authorities . . . . (just go through a Flash Ad)More Articles . . .
in other words this failure was not just a fluke, its a product of the structural re-organization of 'preparedness' on the part of Mr Preparedness Presdent himself . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #90 of 278
You guys refuse to proportionately place the blame. Why? The City and State responses were profoundly inadequate and clearly violated their emergency response plans. How can this be left out of the picture? The bulk of the evacuees are in another State for Pete's sake. If the locals had done their jobs, the humanitarian crisis in New Orleans, to large extent, would be a non-issue -- compared to what transpired.

Now, of course there is significant FEMA negligence in coordinating the disaster, and in the absence of the state and local response the Feds allowed babies to die of exposure, and that neglect should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But to the extent that the Feds 'were able' to get food and water to the Superdome on Day 1, 2, and 3, the Governor or Mayor should have been 10 times as able.

But you guys are beginning to tumble over yourselves to 'blame Bush' -- and don't get me wrong, he shouldn't escape criticism -- but it's coming across as a quick-and-dirty attempt at turning a human tragedy into agitprop.


One more time: From the BBC (so it has to be true)

see you guys Friday

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

post #91 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
the Governor or Mayor should have been 10 times as able.

I don't know. The only criticism of the mayor is that he didn't get people out. He didn't have the buses, he didn't do certain things that were very, very difficult to do. As pfflam shows us, this failure wasn't based on provable (at this stage) negligence. It's one thing if you want to save a bunch of people and fall short because of the difficulty of the situation and quite another if you debilitate FEMA, put flacks in charge, refuse help and therefore deny it to those who need it, and then try to blur the facts in the public eye. Not the same thing.

If the mayor and governor didn't get everyone out they could have because they were lazy or incompetent, let's see some proof that's true. Cadavers aren't proof of this. If in an extreme situation they made tough decisions with the resources they had, that's something else.

--B
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post #92 of 278
The mayor should take a ton of blame.

The governor should take a ton of blame.

Louisiana's senators and representatives should take a ton of blame.

DHS and FEMA should rot in hell for their ineptitude.

But the President of the United States should fall on his own sword for his blatant misuse of firefighters as props for his PR campaign. Considering the situation I think this is probably the most fucked up thing this president has ever done (and it's a long list of fucked up things).

The Salt Lake Tribune wrote:

Quote:
As specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.





However, I think Josh Marshall sums it up well:

Quote:
...from today's Salt Lake Tribune which tells the story of about a thousand firefighters from around the country who volunteered to serve in the Katrina devastation areas. But when they arrived in Atlanta to be shipped out to various disaster zones in the region, they found out that they were going to be used as FEMA community relations specialists. And they were to spend a day in Atltanta getting training on community relations, sexual harassment awareness, et al. This of course while life and death situations were still the order of the day along a whole stretch of the Gulf Coast.

It's an article you've really got a to read to appreciate the full measure of folly and surreality.

So when you see photos like this one with all those shiny Coast Guard helicopters and officers at attention, it puts it into perspective doesn't it?



Bush DOES NOT get a free pass on this one. People were dying while Bush and Rove staged photo ops. Fuckers.

It was nice to hear Aaron Brown and Cafferty fully admit that if this president had the last name Clinton, the support for the president would be radically different.

Indeed.

This president and his chronies are scumbags.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
post #93 of 278
Thread Starter 
I am not exculpating the mayor of the Guv'nor . . .I'm sure that they will be seen to have been flacky if nothing else . . .

but lets face it: Leadership is leadership and lack of leadership is a bad job . . . the bad job, in this case is directly in front of everybodies eyes . . . .


but make no mistake . .. if you stop to blame the underlings then you are doing exactly what the consciousness brocker/Rove wants you to do . . and we have seen, as recently as three days ago, that he outright lies directly to the press . . .

. . . he simply doesn't believe in truth or lies, its all about image: if it seems to be true then it is 'our new reality' - to paraphrase a top Bush official . . .
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #94 of 278
even the washington times is pissed at the federal response
post #95 of 278
Conservative, liberal, republican, democrat..... it doesn't matter what system of beliefs our government leaders follow. This atrocity was a systematic failure on virtually every level. The infrastructure in place was outdated and ill-prepared. The evacuation plan was not rehearsed and the public was not properly informed. The public wasn't allotted ample time to leave, also there were errors with where and how to go.

These are all things that cannot stand in 21st Century America. Information is power. People need to know the plan. What, where and how.
MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

post #96 of 278
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by DanMacMan
Conservative, liberal, republican, democrat..... it doesn't matter what system of beliefs our government leaders follow. This atrocity was a systematic failure on virtually every level. The infrastructure in place was outdated and ill-prepared. The evacuation plan was not rehearsed and the public was not properly informed. The public wasn't allotted ample time to leave, also there were errors with where and how to go.

These are all things that cannot stand in 21st Century America. Information is power. People need to know the plan. What, where and how.

You are right, except that some of those reasons for failure that you mention are the direct result of ideologically informed practices . . . an Infrastructure tha is wasting away because ideologues believe its best privatized on all levels,says that political ideas are not meaningless in all of this.
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #97 of 278
Thread Starter 
A new definiteve statement of failure:

"House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi urged Bush to fire Brown. "Why would I do that?" the president replied. "Because of all that went wrong, of all that didn't go right last week," she explained. To which he answered, "What didn't go right?"
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

post #98 of 278
Update: Don't worry, failure of leadership is ok. Rice says God is going to fix it.


Quote:
Later, during a service at the Pilgrim Rest AME Zion church outside Mobile, Rice nodded in agreement as the Rev. Malone Smith Jr. advised the congregation, "Wait for the Lord."

"There are some things the president can do; there are some things the government can do," Smith told about 300 worshippers during a rollicking two-hour service. "But God can do all things. I want you to know he's never late. He's always on time."

Rice later echoed the call for patience.

"The Lord is going to come on time if we just wait," she said.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #99 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Update: Don't worry, failure of leadership is ok. Rice says God is going to fix it.





We really need to get these shills out of the whitehouse.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
post #100 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Update: Don't worry, failure of leadership is ok. Rice says God is going to fix it.

Maybe that's why she was shoe shopping.
post #101 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Maybe that's why she was shoe shopping.

The secretary of state's job is to conduct foreign policy. If she was involved in this crisis at all, it was to put a black face out there to rebut any racist critiques of the admin.

--B
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post #102 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by ShawnJ
Maybe that's why she was shoe shopping.

Fair enough - you need to look your best when JC can check back in at any time.

And according to Barbara 'Beautiful Mind' Bush 'the poor' are much better off now their homes and lives are destroyed so everyone's happy.....turned out quite well in the end didn't it?

Quote:
"What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas," Barbara Bush said in an interview on Monday with the radio program "Marketplace." "Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality."

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway," she said, "so this is working very well for them."
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #103 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz
The secretary of state's job is to conduct foreign policy. If she was involved in this crisis at all, it was to put a black face out there to rebut any racist critiques of the admin.

--B

Actually, it's more complicated than that. "Foreign policy" is a broad umbrella term:

Quote:
These dutiesthe activities and responsibilities of the State Departmentinclude the following:

* Serves as the Presidents principal adviser on U.S. foreign policy;
* Conducts negotiations relating to U.S. foreign affairs;
* Grants and issues passports to American citizens and exequaturs to foreign consuls in the United States;
* Advises the President on the appointment of U.S. ambassadors, ministers, consuls, and other diplomatic representatives;
* Advises the President regarding the acceptance, recall, and dismissal of the representatives of foreign governments;
* Personally participates in or directs U.S. representatives to international conferences, organizations, and agencies;
* Negotiates, interprets, and terminates treaties and agreements;
* Ensures the protection of the U.S. Government to American citizens, property, and interests in foreign countries;
* Supervises the administration of U.S. immigration laws abroad;
* Provides information to American citizens regarding the political, economic, social, cultural, and humanitarian conditions in foreign countries;
* Informs the Congress and American citizens on the conduct of U.S. foreign relations;
* Promotes beneficial economic intercourse between the United States and other countries;
* Administers the Department of State;
* Supervises the Foreign Service of the United States.

My assumption is that State would be who would coordinate the relief efforts of other countries in case of a disaster like this. I may be wrong, of course, but it makes sense that the department in charge of relations with foreign countries would be in charge of helping them help us.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #104 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
it makes sense that the department in charge of relations with foreign countries would be in charge of helping them help us.

Nope. FEMA's got that covered.

Quote:
foreign offers of assistanceeverything from a Swedish water purification system to Canadian rescue boatshave been caught up "in bureaucratic entanglements, in most cases, at the Federal Emergency Management Agency."

--B
...


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...
post #105 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz
Nope. FEMA's got that covered.

Indeed! I suppose everyone can just go home now. FEMA's there!

I must say that I am deeply concerned with the idea that this administration seems poised to turn its disastrous failure into political gain...all through the red tape that it created by folding FEMA into DHS.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #106 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by bergz
Nope. FEMA's got that covered.

Theoretically...
post #107 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Bush DOES NOT get a free pass on this one. People were dying while Bush and Rove staged photo ops.

Funny, he gets slammed for not visiting fast enough and then slammed for his visits.

From the department of the Obvious: Photo-ops are what politicians do.

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Update: Don't worry, failure of leadership is ok. Rice says God is going to fix it.

Yes, It's staggering that a Christian would say such things.
By the way, "Waiting on the Lord" is a biblical expression. And no, it doesn't mean you're sitting idly by while people suffer.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
post #108 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Photo-ops are what politicians do.


And fake ones are what the current crop do. At times of national crisis.

Quote:
Yes, It's staggering that a Christian would say such things.

Yes, but we're talking about Rice.......

Quote:
By the way, "Waiting on the Lord" is a biblical expression. And no, it doesn't mean you're sitting idly by while people suffer.

No, it means we are headed for an extremist theocratic suppression of liberty...and of course no-one is idle while people are suffering - they're too busy making it happen.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #109 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Funny, he gets slammed for not visiting fast enough and then slammed for his visits.

Funny, he spends three days on vacation while people are dying in New Orleans and people think that's ok.

Funny, this is a fuckup of monumental proportions and no one seems to think that maybe the guy in charge of the country ought to be held accountable, even to the tiniest degree.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #110 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
the guy in charge of the country ought to be held accountable, even to the tiniest degree.

Republicans can criticize Kofi as much as they like, but he knows where the buck stops.

--B
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post #111 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Funny, he spends three days on vacation while people are dying in New Orleans and people think that's ok.

Funny, this is a fuckup of monumental proportions and no one seems to think that maybe the guy in charge of the country ought to be held accountable, even to the tiniest degree.

What nonsense. The drinking water must be contaminated in Utah too.

NOBODY on this board believes Bush isn't responsible to a certain degree. I know I've referenced his patronage appointment at FEMA as well as other things.

The biggest problem here is how a bunch of partisan nuts on this board, who have been ranting against Bush for half a decade, seem determined to use a human disaster of epic proportion for partisan political purposes.

And it is truly despicable.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
post #112 of 278
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #113 of 278
OMG.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #114 of 278
more continuing fema incompetence:
Quote:
Five West Virginia Air National Guard C-130 transport aircraft sent to pick up displaced victims from Hurricane Katrina returned home empty early Wednesday, following a series of frustrating bureaucratic snafus. "We met with obstacles everywhere we turned," said Lara Ramsburg, communications director for Gov. Joe Manchin. "It's been a frustrating experience." "To bring five planes back empty is a crying shame," Manchin told The Associated Press... "Until we hear something from FEMA until they can put a plan together where we're sure the planes will be used the planes will stay here," Ramsburg said.
post #115 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
The biggest problem here is how a bunch of partisan nuts on this board, who have been ranting against Bush for half a decade, seem determined to use a human disaster of epic proportion for partisan political purposes.

And it is truly despicable.

Oh do shut up. Seriously.

This has been a catastrophic, inarguable, and very very deadly failure of leadership on the part of this government; instead of leadership, the people on the coast and in the NO area got press conferences with Bush standing in front of unused helicopters or surrounded by firefighters or police. We get firefighters volunteering to help being used to pass out flyers.

Heads need to roll for this, starting with Mike Brown's. But Bush's system of patronage and cronyism which has led to this needs to be investigated.

This government failed the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast with deadly consequences. How anyone can defend or attempt to spin that is beyond me and anyone who does just needs to shut the hell up.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #116 of 278
I'll second that.

Has it occurred to you, Frank, that the reason people have been complaining about Bush on these boards is because he fucks shit up? That he is, in fact, a really terrible president?

And that the latest evidence of his feckless, photo-op/PR empty suit approach to governance just happens to have got a lot of people killed, and it makes some of us really, really angry? That utter bullshit got people killed?

Can you dig it? No, you can't. In Bush world, there is no such thing as forming opinions due to consequences in the real world. Opinions are what you come in with, and the real world has to broken to your will.

Well, the Gulf Coast is broken. Now comes the fantasy media blitz that makes out Bush to be a resolute leader, and the hero of Katrina.

But you go ahead and worry about the irrational dislike of Bush by crazy people on the internet, since that's obviously the real problem.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #117 of 278
Whenever a disaster arrive :

- the leaders in place, try to explain that they where right
- the opposition tend to say the contrary in case of weakness of the leaders. There was no weakness during 9/11 : no critics came from the opposition. If they did it, they would have lost all credibility.

The real question is :
- is this disaster the result of the failure of a particular leadership, or the failure of a system ?

IMHO, the Bush admin did a bad job (for the locals I don't know, I will wait for furthers investigations), but I am not sure that we can only blame them : I am not sure that the way that the system created to take in charge such situations is good.

It's easy to change leaders, much more difficult to change systems.
post #118 of 278
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Whenever a disaster arrive :

- the leaders in place, try to explain that they where right
- the opposition tend to say the contrary in case of weakness of the leaders. There was no weakness during 9/11 : no critics came from the opposition. If they did it, they would have lost all credibility.

The real question is :
- is this disaster the result of the failure of a particular leadership, or the failure of a system ?

IMHO, the Bush admin did a bad job (for the locals I don't know, I will wait for furthers investigations), but I am not sure that we can only blame them : I am not sure that the way that the system created to take in charge such situations is good.

It's easy to change leaders, much more difficult to change systems.

The FEMA we have to work with is a direct result of this administration and its general philosophy of governance (and which is shared by the contemporary Republican party).

For years we've been preached to about the merits of "small government" and "personal responsibility". Any number of Bush officials and Republican point men are on record disparaging the entire idea of FEMA as a "government handout" program which needed to be radically downsized.

Until now, nobody bothered much with the inherent contradiction between the right wing line of "let the states deal with it" and the explicit Bush campaign promise to be the one to "protect the homeland".

Remember the horrible specter of letting that pussy John Kerry be in charge of responding to a crisis? That worthless flip-flopper?

Gee, I wonder if John Kerry would have taken something like FEMA seriously enough to put someone with experience in charge, like, oh, say, Bill Clinton did. I wonder if that Herman Munster lookin' humorless drudge might have taken a national disaster seriously enough to get his ass in gear at the first reports of the danger. I wonder if that "Mommy" party big government whore would have taken the whole idea of a federal government seriously enough to treat it like an instrument that can actually get things done, instead of a whipping boy and stalking horse for corporate cronyism?

Here's your small government. I hope ya'll cheer leaders rot in hell.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #119 of 278
A good article which glosses addabox's last post. About the conservatives' "Constitution in Exile" which "sees government as the enemy of individual rights," and how that compares to the post-New Deal idea that "individual rights require affirmative steps by the government, rather than passive restraint. Private powerand in the case of Katrina, the forces of naturecan pose greater threats to individual liberty than public power."

Quote:
The outrage Americans on both sides of the political spectrum have expressed toward the sluggish federal response to Katrina suggests just how divorced the Constitution in Exile, and those who reify it, is from the expectations of the great majority of the population. Those left stranded in New Orleans felt acutely the absence, the national government's abdication of responsibility, but they were hardly alone. Reporters, commentators, and politicians everywhere had no doubt that resolution of this crisis was a job for the national governmentand that the national government had failed miserably. None of them could possibly support a Constitution in Exile. The very idea offends, when the need for government is so dire.

--B
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post #120 of 278
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