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Rebuild New Orleans? - Page 2

post #41 of 72
Thread Starter 
Actually it's not. Only like 10% of the 10,000 LA National Guard are deployed. So why weren't the other 8000 called up and ready to go? Honest question from me.
post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by PBook12
The spin started when it was concluded that the only blame could be placed on FEMA/Bush.

The issue with Bush and FEMA's failures is that they are national issues that affect everyone in the country. The state and local governments in the gulf coast states aren't going to affect me in chicago if a disaster hits, but the failures of the bush administration unquestionably do.
post #43 of 72
Thread Starter 
Oh come on? We all care about those people down there. They are suffering and we want to know why it happened. To answer that question we need to look at the complete situation. To do anything less is intellectually dishonest. To only focus on the federal responce will get us nowhere fast.
post #44 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by mmcgann11
But to suggest that the city shouldn't be rebuilt that's like telling someone who lost and arm or a leg, that they can't get medical care and should just go die quietly.

With all due respect, that's a terrible analogy.
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post #45 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by PBook12
Oh come on?

Is this supposed to be a question?
Quote:
We all care about those people down there. They are suffering

Of course
Quote:
and we want to know why it happened.

To varying degrees and for various reasons. Personally, I'm not very interested in all of the minutia of the state and local plans, decisions, etc, because, to put it simply, they don't really affect me. It's the same reason I don't spend day after day focused on the earthquake disaster plans and local politics of San Francisco or the same with Mount Rainier and Seattle. If I'm going to spend time looking at local and state governments and their disaster plans, it will be my own state and local governments.
Quote:
To answer that question we need to look at the complete situation.

Sure, but it's quite literally not my job to answer all of the questions, and somehow I doubt it's yours.
Quote:
To only focus on the federal responce will get us nowhere fast.

"Us?" We aren't doing anything here but posting on a forum and I clearly don't expect to get the same thing out of these discussions that you do. We can discuss all of the different sides of the issue, but if people decide to focus on the failures of the only group in this mess that they rely on, the federal government, that's both perfectly legitimate and extremely important. I can't vote out the governor of louisiana, can I?
post #46 of 72
Thread Starter 
I guess if you're unwilling to learn from history you are doomed to repeat it. Chicago had a major fire that lead to modern fire safety codes and fire fighting. Had the rest of the country had your attitude, they would have learned nothing from the Chicago fire and only focused on the federal response. Or did I misunderstand you?
post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by PBook12
Or did I misunderstand you?

Big time.
post #48 of 72
Thread Starter 
I don't suppose you would be willing explain it so I can understand it better?
post #49 of 72
So good to have you back, Scott.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #50 of 72
Rebuilt it but with canals and high density vertical housing. Like Venice but with more jazz and cheesy bead necklaces. Gas is too pricey anyway for cars and a good row helps keep those pectoral muscles in shape.

Rebuilding it with better levees and perhaps some raised areas is fine by me, I can think of much more useless govt expenditures. Iraq comes to mind. Changes to the Mississippi dam system could obviously help rebuild the delta which should be done for a variety of reasons even if that may be pie in the sky due to political considerations. Any capital expenditures are inevitably continuing at least at some frequency. We certainly don't stop building and buying and spending money on military hardware or highway infrastructure or the like. Such things are constantly replaced by necessity with billions in bling bling from the federal govt.

Although one thing I do wonder about is whether many people will decide not to return after being dispersed for months and essentially being forced to move on with their lives elsewhere. And if it lasts another forty years before a major disaster that isn't really all that bad.
post #51 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
So good to have you back, Scott.

Aw, man! And I thought it was Nappy!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #52 of 72
I didn't even need to look at IP addresses to figure that one out.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
I didn't even need to look at IP addresses to figure that one out.

Ah well. I just figured he was a 13 year old kid. I am happy to say, though, that I added him to my ignore list shortly after he first appeared on the boards.

Man. The ignore list. It's made my life so much better. Can I get one for real life?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #54 of 72
"We've replaced their usual tedious right wing zealot with Taster's Choice, er......PBook12.......Scott!

Let's see if they notice...."
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #55 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by PBook12
I guess if you're unwilling to learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.

Yes, it seems that you are!


This looked so much like a 13-year old to me, too... complete with the "I could stop buying gas" comment and the hurt puppy dog "you guys are so mean" routine.

Instead, it seems that it is a grown man, pretending to be a 13-year-old.

On the Internet.

Imagine that!
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post #56 of 72
Thread Starter 
I could stop buying gas. The bus I ride to work couldn't. But if it did, I'd ride a bike I guess. A guy I work with, that lives in the next development over, takes an electric bike to work. Shopping is close by too. So, YES, I could stop buying gas.
post #57 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by FormerLurker
and the hurt puppy dog "you guys are so mean" routine.

That's why I thought it was Nappy. He was always so quick to play that "Oh! Ok! Fine! I'm dumb and you're smart!" card, which you know, assumes that the other person doesn't actually think that's true.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #58 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
That's why I thought it was Nappy. He was always so quick to play that "Oh! Ok! Fine! I'm dumb and you're smart!" card, which you know, assumes that the other person doesn't actually think that's true.

Huh. Weird. Now that you point it out I realize that I had unconsciously assumed the same thing for that very reason.

That whole "I guess I must be dumb compared to all you smart people" thing is very Naples and not at all Scottish.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #59 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
That's why I thought it was Nappy. He was always so quick to play that "Oh! Ok! Fine! I'm dumb and you're smart!" card, which you know, assumes that the other person doesn't actually think that's true.

Why are you calling me Nappy? Isn't that kind of a racist nickname anyway?
post #60 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Huh. Weird. Now that you point it out I realize that I had unconsciously assumed the same thing for that very reason.

That whole "I guess I must be dumb compared to all you smart people" thing is very Naples and not at all Scottish.

Oh no, that's not Scott's MO at all. Scott's MO is "see brick wall. Argue with it."
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #61 of 72
You guys shouldn't attack other posters personally. But Scott technically isn't a poster here, so it's kind of a difficult spot we're in rule-wise, because personal attacks on non-posters are just fine.

I'll consult with the other moderators on this technical misunderstanding. In the meantime, I have no power to punish anyone who personally attacks Scott.

And I will tell you, that pains me greatly.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #62 of 72
Who the crap is Scott, anyway?
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
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Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
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post #63 of 72
When someone is banned forever, he is banned forever.
post #64 of 72
Scott was banned forever? Why?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #65 of 72
OK
This is the last word that I would say about this.
He was banned forever for past records, he reappear on a different account, he pmed Groverat and I finded that his PM was not the one I expected (PM are private so it won't appear here).
So I decided with our team to ban him. This is my decision, and I take the responsability of this one.

Case closed.
If someone as something to say : pm me. Otherwise I will delete any furthers comments about this.
post #66 of 72
This article from BBC news has some interesting information about the volume of water in New Orleans:
Quote:
Aerial photographs are...helping (LSU scientists) to establish the volume of floodwater.

These images suggest the quantity of floodwater in downtown New Orleans on 2 September was 95 billion litres (21bn gallons, 25bn US gallons), Hassan Mashriqui of the LSU Hurricane Center told the BBC News website.

That represents about 2% of the volume of (Lake Ponchartrain).

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post #67 of 72
Ponchartrain is ~40 miles wide and ~25 miles tall.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #68 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Ponchartrain is ~40 miles wide and ~25 miles tall.

Tall? I think you've got the wrong word there.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #69 of 72
hey folks, sorry about the radio silence. we've been back home all week, trying to do what we can, but the communications out of even st tammany parish north of the lake are laughable.

anyway, in response to the original post, believe it or not, but "move the city" is ACTUALLY the fall back plan for the city of new orleans. it has been all along. whether that SHOULD be "plan b" is up for debate, but i can tell you this: this tragedy happened due to bi-partisan idiocy for the last, i dunno 100 years? more? louisiana politics and city planners and developers are the most corrupt you will ever see. they're mafia-esque in some respects, but i have always gotten the impression that the mafia, while always "family" based, was still a business mentality. in louisiana, family connections and last names ruled the roost. got poor people? house 'em in the ninth ward. when you're dirt poor and desperate, you'll ake it, too, and trust that the city wouldn't put you in harm's way. and maybe the city wouldn't. but the city doesn't mind putting you NEAR harm's way, and neither does the parish, or the state, or society in general when the ninth ward and the derelict houses in new orleans are completely shielded from the old mansions and plantation houses of st. charles avenue. hell, it is well known that the REASON the houses on st. charles are so nice, and those houses 1-2 blocks north and south of it are so poor is that they are still based on the slave quarters built there ages ago. combine all of that negligence TOGETHER, along with the federal government being stingy with funds to improve (NOT just maintain, but IMPROVE) the levee system, because, yes, the army corps of engineers flittered away so much money on terrible projects...

well, in the end, politics and corruption stewed over generations caused this. new orleans wil be rebuilt. but i hope it's rebuilt, not only better in terms of structure, but also in terms of those in charge.
When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
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When you're lovers in a dangerous time,
You're made to feel as if your love's a crime.
Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight.
Gotta kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight.

-...
Reply
post #70 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by Flounder
Tall? I think you've got the wrong word there.

Sorry. Long. Not tall. Long.

And Rok: please keep us posted. The news we're getting of the forced evacuations of the city are pretty bizarre.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #71 of 72
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
hey folks, sorry about the radio silence. we've been back home all week, trying to do what we can, but the communications out of even st tammany parish north of the lake are laughable.

anyway, in response to the original post, believe it or not, but "move the city" is ACTUALLY the fall back plan for the city of new orleans. it has been all along. whether that SHOULD be "plan b" is up for debate, but i can tell you this: this tragedy happened due to bi-partisan idiocy for the last, i dunno 100 years? more? louisiana politics and city planners and developers are the most corrupt you will ever see. they're mafia-esque in some respects, but i have always gotten the impression that the mafia, while always "family" based, was still a business mentality. in louisiana, family connections and last names ruled the roost. got poor people? house 'em in the ninth ward. when you're dirt poor and desperate, you'll ake it, too, and trust that the city wouldn't put you in harm's way. and maybe the city wouldn't. but the city doesn't mind putting you NEAR harm's way, and neither does the parish, or the state, or society in general when the ninth ward and the derelict houses in new orleans are completely shielded from the old mansions and plantation houses of st. charles avenue. hell, it is well known that the REASON the houses on st. charles are so nice, and those houses 1-2 blocks north and south of it are so poor is that they are still based on the slave quarters built there ages ago. combine all of that negligence TOGETHER, along with the federal government being stingy with funds to improve (NOT just maintain, but IMPROVE) the levee system, because, yes, the army corps of engineers flittered away so much money on terrible projects...

well, in the end, politics and corruption stewed over generations caused this. new orleans wil be rebuilt. but i hope it's rebuilt, not only better in terms of structure, but also in terms of those in charge.

This is the best post I've seen in any of the many threads pertaining to the hurricane.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #72 of 72
Are your tinfoil hats firmly in place? Let's embark on a flight of the sheerest, impossible fantasy! (Note; if you don't like fantasy, or if fantasy makes you angry, then this might be a good time to eject from this post.)

The Japanese might have a solution to New2Orleans (New, New Orleans):

See the 1000 meter long model

If Japan can build a floating airport, surely we can build a floating city.

Once the water is pumped out of N1O, construction could begin and it would be simpler than what the Japanese are proposing (building the unit at sea). Once the foundation is built, the city could be resurrected above (and within-there would be a lot of space - perfect for pre-positioning emergency supplies). Self contained power plants (either conventional or nuclear). Let either Lake Pontchatrain or the Gulf into the Bowl permanently. Commute by boat, elevated monorails, etc.

The Venice of North America.

Of course, some testing would have to take place first. And terrorists might take an interest.

Hope you enjoyed the flight; come back to earth now.

Have a weekend.

V/R,

Aries 1B
"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
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"I pictured myself sitting in the shade of a leafy tree in a public park, a stylus in hand, a shiny Apple Tablet computer in my lap, and a pouty Jennifer Connelly stirring a pitcher of gimlets a...
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