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Apple unwraps iTunes 5 - Page 2

post #41 of 163
9/7/05 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
didn't work - oh it does when i quit sizzlingkeys as well.

What is that?
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post #42 of 163
9/7/05 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally posted by danielctull
Am I the only person who gets an error message ("Please quit iTunes before beginning this update.") repeatedly flash up when trying to install? I restarted and didn't even open iTunes and it still did it...

Will I have to wait for Software Update to get it?

You can't have itunes open. that message come up for me, so i quite out of itune and then pressed 'ok'.
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post #43 of 163
9/7/05 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally posted by danielctull
Well, I have it installed now. First I closed AudioScrobbler, not sure if that had anything to do with it. But it still wouldn't work, then I stopped SizzlingKeys. When I did that it worked!

Okay so my first thought when I got this was: Why do I have over 4000 songs in my library? Last time I looked there was only 3900 odd... The answer: Podcasts. So now Podcasts are stored in the Music Library as well as having their own section in the Source? That's awful. Truly. I liked how they seemed to be splitting the sections up; hell I wanted a Videos and Audiobook Libraries like we had the Podcast Library. But now Everything gets crammed into "Music" Library??? That's not good at all. Also "Podcast" should be an Artist...

I disagree. This is actually much simpler. Your Library should be everything in iTunes, and then you can play from there. And to completely eliminate the problem you are having, simply press Shift-Command-B and hit "Music". It's a very simple fix.
Alec
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Alec
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post #44 of 163
9/7/05 at 4:31pm
Hey--this is GREAT! 5.0 gave me an extra 8 GB of hard drive space!

Had about 1 GB free on my 60 GB iPod...
- updated to 5.0
- added Rolling Stones Bigger Bang
- now shows 8.7 GB available!

Obviously something wrong here.
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post #45 of 163
9/7/05 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
What is that?

It enables you to create global hotkeys which can be used within any application. So I press command-alt-space to play/pause iTunes, without the need to open iTunes or command-tab to it then hitting the spacebar. Details can be found at yellowmug.com/sk4it

Quote:
Originally posted by Fox Hound
You can't have itunes open. that message come up for me, so i quite out of itune and then pressed 'ok'.

Like I said later on, I had quit and the reason I was getting error messages was because of SizzlingKeys and/or AudioScrobbler were still running.

Quote:
Originally posted by eekles77
I disagree. This is actually much simpler. Your Library should be everything in iTunes, and then you can play from there. And to completely eliminate the problem you are having, simply press Shift-Command-B and hit "Music". It's a very simple fix.

I guess it's just the layout. For Podcasts, that Podcast section's layout is great. For browsing music, the normal library layout is great, but not so good for browsing Podcasts.

Your fix however is excellent. In fact I think that iTunes should have the option to be able to create libraries based on those headings on the search bar - for me I'd have them all split: Music, Video & Audiobooks, with the special Podcast one acting as the Podcast Library. I say again this would be optional.
Daniel Tull
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Daniel Tull
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post #46 of 163
9/7/05 at 5:17pm
Still no gapless encoding or gapless playback. Sigh. \
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #47 of 163
9/7/05 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
Still no gapless encoding or gapless playback. Sigh. \

There must be some reason why they haven't included it. I'm sure they'd like to but something is restricting it.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
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Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
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post #48 of 163
9/7/05 at 5:27pm
As pretty as the new design is etc, i'm still miffed by one thing, and refuse to believe that it's something that can't be fixed...

When you rip a mix cd, it puts gaps between tracks. To me, this is just unacceptable... I listen to a hell of a lot of DJ mixes, and I get so frustrarted when the tracks skip, cut or crossfade, ruining the whole flow.

Not all of us are shuffle freaks, some of us still love listening to albums as the artist/DJ intended!

Am I missing something here...?

f
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post #49 of 163
9/7/05 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by iShawn
I know many don't like this... but I'm a fan of gradients... except on cheesey car paint jobs. I'd love to see your renditions. The Menu Bar has it too now. Maybe it will produce a 3-D display with Leopard out and the mactels speaking everything to you. You'll still need fancy glasses though.

The old iTunes had a gradient. Open up any finder / safari window, and you will see the center is lighter than the edges.

http://www.crhain.com/

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http://www.crhain.com/

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post #50 of 163
9/7/05 at 5:35pm
There is one thing I definitely wish they had kept from the previous interface. Since you can drag anything "metal" on the window, you could grab the left or right edge of the iTunes 4 window and drag it all OS 8 style. I'm not sure I like the sources and songs going all the way to the edges of the window.
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post #51 of 163
9/7/05 at 5:43pm
I find it very odd that apple didn't just wait to unleash the new GUI.

I remember back when people used to complain about having pinstripe and metal for random reasons.

Now I have Pinstripe, Metal, and Aqua Gray (What do you call this thing?!). According to someone else, they have two different shades of Aqua Gray!

Another two things I've Noticed. The "light" behind the buttons on the bottom appear...different. Also the search bar greys out, instead of staying white.

I whish I knew what apple had in store for the rest of the GUI.

http://www.crhain.com/

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http://www.crhain.com/

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post #52 of 163
9/7/05 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally posted by CRHain88
I find it very odd that apple didn't just wait to unleash the new GUI.

I remember back when people used to complain about having pinstripe and metal for random reasons.

Now I have Pinstripe, Metal, and Aqua Gray (What do you call this thing?!). According to someone else, they have two different shades of Aqua Gray!

Another two things I've Noticed. The "light" behind the buttons on the bottom appear...different. Also the search bar greys out, instead of staying white.

I whish I knew what apple had in store for the rest of the GUI.

Yeah. One of the arguments in favor of Apple back in the day was their user interface guidelines and the research they did to develop them. Now Apple seems to make up the UI as they go along and violate whatever "principles" they feel. Sure, the UI is still "slick" and "lickable", but it really feels like they're losing sight of something.

With this new GUI of the week approach, why can't they develop a skinnable UI and let us users have some of the fun too?

- Jasen.
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post #53 of 163
9/7/05 at 7:55pm
can anyone put a screen shot on of itunes 5 of window. to show us mac userly how much better ours looks.

thanks
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post #54 of 163
9/7/05 at 8:17pm
Big whoop... The folders are years overdue anyway, but where's FLAC & OGG support. Get you head out of your arse Apple and actually treat your customers with a bit of respect. Apple lossless is all well and good, but couldn't they have just implement direct conversion of FLAC & OGG into Lossless? That would even be ok... I just get this sinking feeling whenever a company goes the 'proprietary' way, it's all about market control, and has nothing to do with the customer. I really hoped apple would have picked up the ball with iTunes 5 towards being a real complete music listening solution...
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post #55 of 163
9/7/05 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally posted by fosman
When you rip a mix cd, it puts gaps between tracks. To me, this is just unacceptable... I listen to a hell of a lot of DJ mixes, and I get so frustrarted when the tracks skip, cut or crossfade, ruining the whole flow.

Does it still do this for you even after you've set Settings->Burning->"Gap Between Songs" to "none"? I'm pretty sure I got continuous play last time I burned a CD with those settings.
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post #56 of 163
9/7/05 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally posted by fosman
As pretty as the new design is etc, i'm still miffed by one thing, and refuse to believe that it's something that can't be fixed...

When you rip a mix cd, it puts gaps between tracks. To me, this is just unacceptable... I listen to a hell of a lot of DJ mixes, and I get so frustrarted when the tracks skip, cut or crossfade, ruining the whole flow.

Not all of us are shuffle freaks, some of us still love listening to albums as the artist/DJ intended!

Am I missing something here...?

f

In the preferences under burning, do you set the gap between songs to zero seconds? The default it 2. Maybe there is still a gap when it is set to none, but I've never noticed it.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #57 of 163
9/7/05 at 8:49pm
I mentioned earlier the photoshop mockup that I'd made a few months ago of iTunes using the Mail.app look... Well, I've uploaded it to my iDisk and you can have a look at it here. It's quite a bit different now I look at them side by side. I'd missed a few controls out, and the grey gradient in iTunes is much darker than the unified toolbar look in Tiger, for instance. Interesting, nonetheless.

I've been using the Windows version at work today, and it looks quite a bit more cluttered than the Mac one thanks to the menu cramping the toolbar area.

A few items on my wishlist for v5.1:
  • On the search bar, only show me filter options for things I have in my library. I don't have any videos or booklets, so don't show those options!!!
  • Move the volume control back where it was - it was so much tidier!
  • Have an option for whether Podcasts show up in the main Library or not. That way we can leave Podcasts in their own section.

Neil.
a.k.a. Arnel
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post #58 of 163
9/7/05 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally posted by jasenj1
I pulled down iTunes 5 for Windows and so far I'm not impressed.
1) They did away with the title bar. Windows apps typically have an icon in the upper left corner of a window followed by the application name and possibly some other info (like the name of the open file). Apple has ignored this convention and mashed the menu into the tippy top of the window. And they've replaced the normal Windows minimize, maximize, and close buttons with their own (very small) ones.

I guess different strokes to different folks. I LOVE that. It makes it feel much more modern.
Quote:
5) They've dropped the brushed aluminum for a grey gradient.

That's my favorite part actually
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post #59 of 163
9/7/05 at 11:40pm
Oh man I hate this slick look compared to the brushed metal. And is the mini look with just the song name and buttons only available on Mac? Or how do I get it on windows?
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post #60 of 163
9/8/05 at 12:19am
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Quote:
Originally posted by 666
Big whoop... The folders are years overdue anyway, but where's FLAC & OGG support. Get you head out of your arse Apple and actually treat your customers with a bit of respect. Apple lossless is all well and good, but couldn't they have just implement direct conversion of FLAC & OGG into Lossless? That would even be ok... I just get this sinking feeling whenever a company goes the 'proprietary' way, it's all about market control, and has nothing to do with the customer. I really hoped apple would have picked up the ball with iTunes 5 towards being a real complete music listening solution...

iTunes uses QuickTime for all of its encoding and decoding.

QuickTime is, despite what some people will try and tell you, open to expansion by anybody willing to write a plug-in. All apps that use QuickTime will then be able to import and export in that format. Including iTunes.

The OSS community that keeps touting the wonders of open source needs to get off their arses and write the plug-ins, instead of waiting for Apple to do it. All the tools, documentation, and APIs are free.

So, like, get to it.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #61 of 163
9/8/05 at 12:30am
Two problems that I have:
1 - the repositioned volume slider. It looked much better under the play controls, and still lives there when the window is minimised. So why move it?
2 - new search. I find it mind-boggling that, as in the Finder, the new search bar doesn't resize with the window. It's just plain idiotic.
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post #62 of 163
9/8/05 at 1:58am
Quote:
Originally posted by Arnel
I mentioned earlier the photoshop mockup that I'd made a few months ago of iTunes using the Mail.app look... Well, I've uploaded it to my iDisk and you can have a look at it here. It's quite a bit different now I look at them side by side. I'd missed a few controls out, and the grey gradient in iTunes is much darker than the unified toolbar look in Tiger, for instance. Interesting, nonetheless.

I've been using the Windows version at work today, and it looks quite a bit more cluttered than the Mac one thanks to the menu cramping the toolbar area.

A few items on my wishlist for v5.1:
  • On the search bar, only show me filter options for things I have in my library. I don't have any videos or booklets, so don't show those options!!!
  • Move the volume control back where it was - it was so much tidier!
  • Have an option for whether Podcasts show up in the main Library or not. That way we can leave Podcasts in their own section.

Neil.
a.k.a. Arnel

I think I prefer you're look- you're buttons are quite cool.

You can still burn CDs with no gaps between songs.

And the reason the search bar doesn't resize is because it would become too small to write in.
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post #63 of 163
9/8/05 at 2:42am
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
iTunes uses QuickTime for all of its encoding and decoding.

QuickTime is, despite what some people will try and tell you, open to expansion by anybody willing to write a plug-in. All apps that use QuickTime will then be able to import and export in that format. Including iTunes.

The OSS community that keeps touting the wonders of open source needs to get off their arses and write the plug-ins, instead of waiting for Apple to do it. All the tools, documentation, and APIs are free.

So, like, get to it.

There was an OGG component going around as I had a few OGG files that I converted using iTunes. My belief is that it stopped working with the release of QT7, but the component was years old with no more work being done on it.

edit: Not the component I had, but seemingly one that is now in open beta, so is being worked on is Ogg Drop, which contains an ogg QT component.

edit 2: Well I can't find the ogg QT component in that app. And although iTunes adds the track, upon playing it crashes.
Daniel Tull
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Daniel Tull
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post #64 of 163
9/8/05 at 3:17am
So what does the video capabilities in iTunes say about about potential new video iPods? I'm considering the 60Gig but should I wait until video?
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post #65 of 163
9/8/05 at 3:19am
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy And the reason the search bar doesn't resize is because it would become too small to write in.

I meant the actual bar, not the search field. Initiate a search, and then resize the window: options in the fancy new bar exit stage right. If you already have a small iTunes window (12" screen, don't need window at maximum size, whatever) and try to search, you are never going to see all the available variables. Finder displays the same behaviour in search windows; there is nothing to indicate that stretching the window reveals more options. No scroll-bar, no slider, no arrow, nothing.
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post #66 of 163
9/8/05 at 3:55am
Quote:
Originally posted by leethomson
I meant the actual bar, not the search field. Initiate a search, and then resize the window: options in the fancy new bar exit stage right. If you already have a small iTunes window (12" screen, don't need window at maximum size, whatever) and try to search, you are never going to see all the available variables. Finder displays the same behaviour in search windows; there is nothing to indicate that stretching the window reveals more options. No scroll-bar, no slider, no arrow, nothing.

oh, that's awful - they really do need to work on these things. The same happens in the Finder.
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post #67 of 163
9/8/05 at 4:13am
Re the DJ mix thing, I was actually talking about gapless encoding and playback. Ripping a mix CD, and then burning it to a CD to listening to it gapless? not really ideal! Surely this is taking the micky, how you you justify not having this as part of the programme? around 30% of the music I have is on mix CD's, and thus 30% of my music ruined by itunes.

There's no excuse for this as far as I'm concerned. Its like putting gaps between each different shot of a movie and having audio drop out between. Can someone PLEASE explain to why gapless encoding a playback is such a difficult thing to achive?!? you can make look of intunes pink polka dot for all I care, just sort this out!!!

Grr...
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post #68 of 163
9/8/05 at 4:17am
Quote:
Originally posted by fosman
Re the DJ mix thing, I was actually talking about gapless encoding and playback. Ripping a mix CD, and then burning it to a CD to listening to it gapless? not really ideal! Surely this is taking the micky, how you you justify not having this as part of the programme? around 30% of the music I have is on mix CD's, and thus 30% of my music ruined by itunes.

There's no excuse for this as far as I'm concerned. Its like putting gaps between each different shot of a movie and having audio drop out between. Can someone PLEASE explain to why gapless encoding a playback is such a difficult thing to achive?!? you can make look of intunes pink polka dot for all I care, just sort this out!!!

Grr...

in itunes you can use crossfade - or import as one track, they do need to fix it for the iPod.
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post #69 of 163
9/8/05 at 4:20am
crossfade clips tracks.
Importing as one track is, well, dumb!
How hard is it to clone and playback an album as is?!?!?!?!
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post #70 of 163
9/8/05 at 5:19am
I too own many mix cd's and have never had this problem.

I reccomend using crossfade playback AND putting the crossfade playback to 0 seconds.

This then loads the next tune before the tune playing has finished and therefore has no gaps. This wll also make sure that the tunes do not get clipped.

Ipods are different. however. my 2nd generation ipod couldn't do this sadly. neither can my suffle...

hope that helps,
niall
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post #71 of 163
9/8/05 at 5:37am
Quote:
Originally posted by Fox Hound
can anyone put a screen shot on of itunes 5 of window. to show us mac userly how much better ours looks.

thanks

As you wish.



See how tight the top margin is? That's just wrong, IMHO. And the window controls are dinky.

And the titlebarless paradigm falls apart the second you enter a dialog box - like preferences - those are standard Windows UI components.

- Jasen.
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post #72 of 163
9/8/05 at 5:41am
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
Quote:
Originally posted by jasenj1



See how tight the top margin is? That's just wrong, IMHO.

I agree. Just too damn ugly.
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post #73 of 163
9/8/05 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
in itunes you can use crossfade - or import as one track, they do need to fix it for the iPod.

That is not what he is talking about.. everything is perfect when you playback within itunes but burning is the problem. That is what he is talking about.. not playing withing itunes, but burning. Even if you set a crossfade within itunes, it does not burn your songs that way.
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post #74 of 163
9/8/05 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally posted by fosman
crossfade clips tracks.
Importing as one track is, well, dumb!
How hard is it to clone and playback an album as is?!?!?!?!

Another problem, with no really good solution, is that many CDs have audio between tracks which really aren't part of the tracks themselves. This get's dropped when you import a CD into iTunes.
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post #75 of 163
9/8/05 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally posted by jasenj1
As you wish.

See how tight the top margin is? That's just wrong, IMHO. And the window controls are dinky.

And the titlebarless paradigm falls apart the second you enter a dialog box - like preferences - those are standard Windows UI components.

- Jasen.

Windows breaks their own UI rules with MSN messenger and Media Player, if you were using the default font and size you would notice a big improvement - it takes up less space and gives users more information so I'm sure the majority will appreciate the change.

Anyway iTunes looks gorgeous on the Mac
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post #76 of 163
9/8/05 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Nice update. Not sure it deserves being given a "5" designation.

They sell iTunes 4.x.x in a box called iLife5.
Kinda applelogic;-)

Finally changing the version number of one of its
iLife members to match all others makes plenty sense.
It is da logic, dude
" I will not commit anything to memory that I can get from another source . . . "
ALBERT EINSTEIN
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" I will not commit anything to memory that I can get from another source . . . "
ALBERT EINSTEIN
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post #77 of 163
9/8/05 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
They sell iTunes 4.x.x in a box called iLife5.
Kinda applelogic;-)

Finally changing the version number of one of its
iLife members to match all others makes plenty sense.
It is da logic, dude

Also what were they going to call it - iTunes 4.9.1? or 4.95? 5 makes more sense as you can also distinguish between versions - 5 represents the end of brushed metal.
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post #78 of 163
9/8/05 at 9:57am
  • Kickaha
  • Really Fast Typing Member
Quote:
Originally posted by MacCrazy
Also what were they going to call it - iTunes 4.9.1? or 4.95? 5 makes more sense as you can also distinguish between versions - 5 represents the end of brushed metal.

4.10, duh. It's not a decimal number. You can have 4.427 if you want, and it's the 427th minor version of major build 4.

Why does everyone get so confused about this?? I mean, obviously 10.4.2 isn't a decimal number, since it has *TWO* decimal points. So why does anyone assume that it follows the rules of decimal math??

*shakes head*

Again, for the those just joining the class...

Build numbers are given in the form X.Y.Z.

X is major build: major changes to the UI or under the hood code base
Y is minor build: new features
Z is bugfix: fixes bugs, *might* include minor new features

The three numbers are independent of one another.

It's iTunes 5 because a) the UI changed. Not a lot though, and it's more because of b) it uses QuickTime 7, which is a pretty big bump. iTunes 5 on Windows == QT7 on Windows == H.264 on Windows. Prepping the masses for the video revolution. Muahahahaha.
My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #79 of 163
9/8/05 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally posted by jasenj1

On Windows, my iTunes title bar doesn't have the name "iTunes" squished up against the very top edge of the window like you show in your screen shot. Perhaps iTunes simply isn't dealing very well with your chosen desktop theme, or personal variations thereof in Display Properties/Appearance? Your window title seems to be in a larger font size than mine.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #80 of 163
9/8/05 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
4.10, duh. It's not a decimal number. You can have 4.427 if you want, and it's the 427th minor version of major build 4.

Why does everyone get so confused about this?? I mean, obviously 10.4.2 isn't a decimal number, since it has *TWO* decimal points. So why does anyone assume that it follows the rules of decimal math??

*shakes head*

Again, for the those just joining the class...

Build numbers are given in the form X.Y.Z.

X is major build: major changes to the UI or under the hood code base
Y is minor build: new features
Z is bugfix: fixes bugs, *might* include minor new features

The three numbers are independent of one another.

right, but if you called it 4.10 it would seem to most people like a downgrade and confuse people - because of the way decimals work. It makes more sense to call it iTunes 5 - anyway it has a new look so a major revision number makes more sense.
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