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Jobs talks iTunes pricing, Intel Macs at Apple Expo

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
Apple chief executive Steve Jobs at a press conference on Tuesday talked about the company's upcoming Intel Macs and called the music industry "greedy" for considering a hike in the price of digital music downloads, warning such a move would drive users back to piracy.

Speaking to reporters before the opening of Apple Expo in Paris, Jobs acknowledged that some record companies were pushing him to raise the price of each song download beyond the current 99 cents rate.

"If they want to raise the prices, it means that they are getting greedy," Jobs said, according to the Associated Press. "If the price goes up, [consumers] will go back to piracy and everybody loses."

According to Macworld UK, Jobs also confirmed Apples switch to Intel processors remains on schedule, saying: We said wed be shipping by next June and we are on track to have that be a true statement.

Commenting on the illegal distribution and manipulation of early copies of Mac OS X for Intel to run on standard PC hard, Jobs said: "We dont know how having OS X available for PCs would affect Macs, and promised, we will have technology in OS X for Intel so that it cannot be installed in other PCs.

Still, it appears that Apple will take no seat to software pirates and hackers alike. "Theft is bad, Jobs said. You dont want to burn in Hell. We choose to give away some software for free, we choose not to give away other software."

Meanwhile, Jon Rubinstein, senior vice president of the iPod division, told reporters the company was not planning to add radio features to its digital player because there was not enough demand for it.

Pascal Cagni, Apple's European Boss, was also present at the conference and gave an update on Apple's performance in the region. In Europe in the last quarter Apple saw the fastest ever growth - 6-7 per cent year-on-year [...] We have done very well in the UK, and fantastically with the iPod, and in Russia and Turkey too.

Apples US market share now stands at 4.5%, with its world-wide market share at 3%.

Additional coverage of the press conference is available from Macworld UK.
post #2 of 44
Quote:
We said wed be shipping by next June and we are on track to have that be a true statement.

That's a very round about way of saying that they could release an Intel Mac anytime between now and then. Good to hear that the project is on track, in any case.
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post #3 of 44
LOL, if the past is anything to go by, it means Apple will start shipping the first Intel-based Macs at 11:59pm on May 31.
post #4 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
You dont want to burn in Hell."

Job's said *THAT*?!?!?
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post #5 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Job's said *THAT*?!?!?

Yeah. Isn't he a budhist?
post #6 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Job's said *THAT*?!?!?

I'm sure he was only kidding. I don't think he really cares about the few people that installed the cracked Tiger on their PCs. It's free publicity for Apple and OS-X.

It's like the drug dealer that offers the first hit for free. When the Intel Macs are released, these PC-users running a cracked version OS-X will either have to deal with never being able to upgrade their OS via Software Update or make the switch and buy an Apple machine. I think it's safe to say that if these people are happy with the OS they are more than likely to invest in a Mac when the time comes for them to buy a new computer.
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post #7 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Unbeliever
Yeah. Isn't he a budhist?

Aw, c'mon, the monks would always scream stuff like that just before they went into battle...

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post #8 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by entmoots
LOL, if the past is anything to go by, it means Apple will start shipping the first Intel-based Macs at 11:59pm on May 31.

The release of TIger shows this not to be true, he quoted 1st half of 2005 last year and it turned out to be late April.

There is all chance that an Intel Mac will be released a lot earlier, and I'd still place bets on Jan '06 for at least one machine. They already have OS X for Intel, and with a few modifications to make sure it only runs on Mac machines, it's ready to go. Likewise with the hardware. They are waiting on software developers to get their apps Intel compatible, once they are everything is ready to go.
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post #9 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
Meanwhile, Jon Rubinstein, senior vice president of the iPod division, told reporters the company was not planning to add radio features to its digital player because there was not enough demand for it.

Which is something I have no problem with, although I would like better and broader voice recording capabilities.
post #10 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Bancho
Aw, c'mon, the monks would always scream stuff like that just before they went into battle...


Why do I have this image of a thousand Samuel L. Jackson's, all in orange robes, cresting a hill at a dead run screaming "BURN IN HELL, MOFO!"

Anyone else? Just me?

Okay.
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post #11 of 44
Gandhi II

He's back
And this time
He's mad

Yeah I know: Not buddhist but close enough
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post #12 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Anders
Gandhi II

Gandhi with jeans and an iPod nano in his pocket?

You know.. now that the iPod is 'tiny' all those jokes like "Is that a U2 special edition iPod in your pocket or are you just happy to see me" will have to die. I liked those jokes...
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post #13 of 44
Our Dear Freind Steve,

has told the truth and stood firm on the music pricing issue...

GO STEVE GO!!!!!!!!! WERE PROUD OF YOU SON!
post #14 of 44
Quote:
Jobs also confirmed Apples switch to Intel processors remains on schedule, saying: We said wed be shipping by next June and we are on track to have that be a true statement.

I'm still pretty dubious about Apple joining the general Intel chip line.
Look at how Jobs has run Apple.

While Intel deeply segmented its processors into server, desktop, and lap top.

In the same period Jobs did not segment Power PC into a different class of chips. Accross the G3 and G4 line the chips running in the desk tops and lap tops were basically the same chip. The desktop chip went into the lap top once its power consumption was low enough. The G5 was running the same pattern.

There will be seven versions of Vista when it is released.

With Mac there is only OS X and OS X Server.

This is a deliberate pattern that I don't see being broken. I feel like there's more going on that we know.
post #15 of 44
If we think in those lines it would make sense to strip all from the Intel chip that relates to legacy code. That would make it much easier to make Mac OS X Macs only.

But is it possible to do that without adding much extra cost to the chips? Is it at all possible or is it too integrated into the chips?
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post #16 of 44
Quote:

Meanwhile, Jon Rubinstein, senior vice president of the iPod division, told reporters the company was not planning to add radio features to its digital player because there was not enough demand for it.

Apples US market share now stands at 4.5%, with its world-wide market share at 3%.

Apple doesn't want to grow out of its teenager market for the iPod. That's why Apple would never consider adding standard AM-FM radio features to the iPod so as to expand its market into the 25-60 year old demographics. God forbid that Apple gave its customers what they want or what they need for it might increase Apple's market share beyond the 3%.

Microsoft has another 20 years to lead the market in giving customers what they want.
post #17 of 44
I know that some think the mactels will be sooner but if i were Jobs i would wait to make sure that there is a large number of developers reader to go.
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post #18 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by ouragan
Apple doesn't want to grow out of its teenager market for the iPod. That's why Apple would never consider adding standard AM-FM radio features to the iPod so as to expand its market into the 25-60 year old demographics. God forbid that Apple gave its customers what they want or what they need for it might increase Apple's market share beyond the 3%.

Microsoft has another 20 years to lead the market in giving customers what they want.

I'm not so sure on your age breakdown for desiring radio on the iPod. In the US at least radio sucks *hard* with the exception of some talk radio that can be informative/entertaining.

Steve said there were some that desired radio to be added to the iPod, it just wasn't enough demand to justify the time wasted doing it. For the (very) few who want it, there are devices out there already. The vast majority either don't care, or don't want the iPod cluttered with useless features (to them).

I'm not buying a device like this to hear the radio. I've bought it to hear all the music I'll never hear on the radio on my own terms.

By the way, I'm 37, and my wife and I each have an iPod (I'm also waiting for my 4GB Nano to ship).

edit - of course this isn't meant to offend you in your desire for radio on the iPod, just my personal take on the situation
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post #19 of 44
Quote:
Apple doesn't want to grow out of its teenager market for the iPod. That's why Apple would never consider adding standard AM-FM radio features to the iPod so as to expand its market into the 25-60 year old demographics. God forbid that Apple gave its customers what they want or what they need for it might increase Apple's market share beyond the 3%.

Microsoft has another 20 years to lead the market in giving customers what they want.

25-60 is like four different demographics.

I doubt all the people in that large a group consistantly listen to the radio.

With an iPod you have a device that holds thousands of songs of your choosing. At that point you don't really need a radio.

Many of the talk or news radio broadcasts are becoming podcasts, which you can listen to any where at any time you choose. Again you don't really need the radio.

But the irony in the post is in comparing the iPod to Microsoft. They both dominate in areas that don't really have much relation to each other.

The iPod which owns about 70% of its market. A market in which Microsoft's products struggle. The reason the iPod has this lead is because consumers made an active choice to buy an iPod and use iTunes.

While Microsoft does currently dominate the operating system, office software, and internet browser. Most consumers have not made an active choice to buy a computer specifically running Microsoft software. But because they see little choice.
post #20 of 44
Quote:
If we think in those lines it would make sense to strip all from the Intel chip that relates to legacy code. That would make it much easier to make Mac OS X Macs only.But is it possible to do that without adding much extra cost to the chips? Is it at all possible or is it too integrated into the chips?

I'm not sure.

But I do feel there are still some unanswered questions. That have not been answered with the obvious assumptions made about Apple/Intel's relationship.

Microsoft and Intel seem to be growing apart in their respective future visions. Intel does not want to indefinitely support AMD64. What is Intel's next move?

Why does Intel want Apple as a partner? Apple will not provide significant revnue to Intel's bottom line. Intel does not need Apple for brand recognition.

From what I understand Intel has been courting Apple for the past five years. Seems that's around the time Apple was announcing OS X.

Apple pushed IBM and Motorola to design Power PC in ways their other more profitable customers did not need. From what I hear these two are happy to see Apple go and bother someone else.

Intel should know Apple would have demands of its chip designs.

Why did they want the business and why did Apple accept?
post #21 of 44
It seems to me that SJ is steering the great technology boat here. Apple CREATES a market for products, 'kay? There was no real market for digital music before iPod. Period. The reason there's no market for a video iPod (which I agree with) is because Apple chooses for there not to be.

Steve also said at the news conference that he doesn't think television and the computer will ever come together. That's RDF-speak for "I don't want that to happen." Knowing that, and knowing how convergent TVs and computers would be with a video iPod, I think Steve is intentionally trying to not steer the marketplace in those directions.

I don't necessarily understand WHY he's of that opinion, but that seems to be the situation.
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post #22 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
It seems to me that SJ is steering the great technology boat here. Apple CREATES a market for products, 'kay? There was no real market for digital music before iPod. Period. The reason there's no market for a video iPod (which I agree with) is because Apple chooses for there not to be.

Remarkable viewpoint, and I believe it. Truly an inspiring company.
post #23 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
You dont want to burn in Hell. ..."

Wow -- I am a Hell bound heart !!
This is serious! I thought I was only a renegade, or at worst a criminal

Apperantly, Hell hath no fury like Steve Jobs!

(I really wanted to use Highway to Hell, but the AC/DC version isnt on ITMS)
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post #24 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
While Intel deeply segmented its processors into server, desktop, and lap top.

Actually, it is a bit more segmented than that, just in the x86 lines. They have high end server (Xeon MP), low end server & workstation (Xeon DP), midrange desktop (P4) and laptop (Centrino / Pentium M), low end desktop (Celeron), low end laptop (Celeron M).

Quote:

In the same period Jobs did not segment Power PC into a different class of chips. Accross the G3 and G4 line the chips running in the desk tops and lap tops were basically the same chip. The desktop chip went into the lap top once its power consumption was low enough. The G5 was running the same pattern.

I think you are basically denying and saying it's not necessarily the same chip in the desktops as it is in the laptops. Laptop chips very often use different fab processes, lowering power consumption is not just a die shrink. Apple doesn't make a marketing distinction between desktop and laptop chips though, but there are distinct model differences on the actual chips.
post #25 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by ouragan
Apple doesn't want to grow out of its teenager market for the iPod. That's why Apple would never consider adding standard AM-FM radio features to the iPod so as to expand its market into the 25-60 year old demographics. God forbid that Apple gave its customers what they want or what they need for it might increase Apple's market share beyond the 3%.

Microsoft has another 20 years to lead the market in giving customers what they want.

Uh, wow, as in wow. You are confusing the iPod and Macintosh lines, in particular, using a Mac statistic to falsely "back up" a claim about the iPod line. The 3% is the stated worldwide market share for Macintosh. Apple's worldwide mp3 player market share is about 30%, and in the G8 nations, I think the average is about 80%.

I'm not sure why some people want AM/FM on an mp3 player. IMO, those bands are generally infested with crap broadcasters.
post #26 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
Uh, wow, as in wow. You are confusing the iPod and Macintosh lines. The 3% is the stated worldwide market share for Macintosh. Apple's worldwide mp3 player market share is about 30%, and in the G8 nations, I think the average is about 80%.

I'm not sure why people want AM/FM on an mp3 player. Those bands are infested with crap broadcasters.

And as far as hard-drive based players go, they have some ridiculous amount, like 90% or perhaps even over that.
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post #27 of 44
Quote:
I think you are basically denying and saying it's not necessarily the same chip in the desktops as it is in the laptops.

No I'm saying it is the same chip.

The end of 2003 was when Apple finished its transition of the full Macintosh line from the G3 to the G4 and before Apple began its transition to the G5.

eMac (800 Mhz)
iBook (800/933/1000 Mhz)
iMac (1/1.25 Ghz)
PowerBook (667,800,867,1000 Mhz)
PowerMac (1/1.25/1.42 Ghz)
Xserve (1/1.33 Ghz)

In 2003 all of these computers used the exact same chip
the Power PC 7455 G4.
post #28 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
I'm not sure why some people want AM/FM on an mp3 player. IMO, those bands are generally infested with crap broadcasters.

Yeah, like NPR, talk radio, emergency broadcasts, news, weather and those stupid live sports events! We can always listen to podcasts of last weeks baseball games, that would be fun.



I like radio. I listen to more than just music and as much as I really love podcasts, I often want to listen to things live, as they happen.

I would like to see an iPod Max with radio, integrated mic and a 20 hour battery....and I don't care if you don't want one.
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post #29 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor
I would like to see an iPod Max with radio, integrated mic and a 20 hour battery....and I don't care if you don't want one.

There is a radio add-on for the iPod. Also, you mentioned NPR, they have numerous podcasts, they claim about 150 of them, about 20 of them are in the iTunes podcast directory, currently featured on the front page.
post #30 of 44
I think that the 'Burn in Hell" remark is so outlandish that it itself is a marketing ploy. In one sitting Steve pounces on the greedy record labels -- I've worked with them and they are greedy! -- to defend our 99 cents per tune price and at the same time can rally support for OS X.

I don't know if the quote made the papers, but I'm curious to see when I ride BART today.
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post #31 of 44
I call bulls*it on the "not enough demand" comments.

Firstly, you don't wait for demand, you create it. I don't know of anyone who wouldn't want the feature integrated. You can't judge demand by sales of tacky add-ons. Integrate, people will buy it. DAB and FM, thanks.

Secondly, there is a consistent demand out there for radio and/or recording (live pause/play features) as well as voice. I still see meet so many people using a mic with a Minidisc or a dedicated digital IC recorder. The nano is an ideal package for this type of use. I'll even take a mic attachment, if that's all we can get. It'd still be small enough, but please, a decent bit rate/fidelity...

On the plus side, the nano is so small that you could team it with an accessory of the sam size and still not suffer any real burden...
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post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
I call bulls*it on the "not enough demand" comments.

Firstly, you don't wait for demand, you create it. I don't know of anyone who wouldn't want the feature integrated. You can't judge demand by sales of tacky add-ons. Integrate, people will buy it. DAB and FM, thanks.

Secondly, there is a consistent demand out there for radio and/or recording (live pause/play features) as well as voice. I still see meet so many people using a mic with a Minidisc or a dedicated digital IC recorder. The nano is an ideal package for this type of use. I'll even take a mic attachment, if that's all we can get. It'd still be small enough, but please, a decent bit rate/fidelity...

On the plus side, the nano is so small that you could team it with an accessory of the sam size and still not suffer any real burden...

If the demand was really that great then the players out there that offer the feature would be eating more of Apple's lunch.

It would probably cost very little to add but it would still mean extra cost and how many more iPods would really sell as a result? If you want a portable radio they make some super tiny ones that you don't even have to plug into the iPod.
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post #33 of 44
Steve just hit the nail on the head, and landed a glancing blow to another. The only thing that makes a Mac worthwhile is the operating system. Period. Awww, it's pretty. NO, IT'S SLOW AND OVERPRICED. SORRY. But the operating system is absolutely perfect and far exceeds any other. I find that I can be at least twice as productive simply from a time point of view on Mac OS X.

The other nail is making Apple into a software company. Or at least partly into a software country. You can see, by one quote, that Steve sees how great it would be for anyone to be able to install Mac OS X on their beige boxes. He's just hesitant, I believe, because that would mean giving the whole pretty hardware business away. I personally think that they can coexist; people will buy a Mac just as they'd buy any other boutique computer, and the build-it-yourself crows will be ecstasic. It looks like a win-win.
post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo

The other nail is making Apple into a software company. Or at least partly into a software country. You can see, by one quote, that Steve sees how great it would be for anyone to be able to install Mac OS X on their beige boxes. He's just hesitant, I believe, because that would mean giving the whole pretty hardware business away. I personally think that they can coexist; people will buy a Mac just as they'd buy any other boutique computer, and the build-it-yourself crows will be ecstasic. It looks like a win-win.

I gotta say I don't agree.

Apple makes the hardware and software because that's what they've always done, and they know it works.
Microsoft's big mistake was letting any computer anywhere run Windows. Know why? Because MS can't possibly make secure and non-buggy versions of Windows for every single configuration out there, it's just not possible.
Apple has really tight integration between it's hardware & software, and it's because of this that the quality of the products is so high.

Seriously, Apple products still have a few bugs every now and then, and Apple knows exactly how to fix them because they make everything themselves so they are familiar with all the components.

I think Apple's biggest mistake would be to let any 'beige box' run Mac OS X.
It would nearly nullify Mac hardware sales, which aren't great at the moment, and Apple would become another stuggling software company.

Jimzip
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post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Jimzip
I gotta say I don't agree.

Apple makes the hardware and software because that's what they've always done, and they know it works.
Microsoft's big mistake was letting any computer anywhere run Windows. Know why? Because MS can't possibly make secure and non-buggy versions of Windows for every single configuration out there, it's just not possible.
Apple has really tight integration between it's hardware & software, and it's because of this that the quality of the products is so high.

Seriously, Apple products still have a few bugs every now and then, and Apple knows exactly how to fix them because they make everything themselves so they are familiar with all the components.

I think Apple's biggest mistake would be to let any 'beige box' run Mac OS X.
It would nearly nullify Mac hardware sales, which aren't great at the moment, and Apple would become another stuggling software company.

Jimzip

A struggling software company with iPods...at least until that fad fades.
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post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by mynamehere
A struggling software company with iPods...at least until that fad fades.

Yeah. Hahah. I was going to mention iPods, and how even though they may support the company for years yet, it would be sad to see all of the computers stop being made.. But I think I'll let it sit .

Jimzip
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post #37 of 44
Quote:
Article from Macworld UK

Asking: Why have we been able to maintain our position?, Jobs pointed to Apples secret success sauce.

The iPod looks like a piece of hardware, but its not. Its software. And iTunes is the best jukebox and iTunes Music Store is the best digital music distribution service.

Apples competitors need to overcome a foe that boasts: World class hardware, applications and services, he said.

These constituents, work together seamlessly, Jobs added.

And this is the secret, he stressed. Apples whole widget approach to music is its strength. It produces the software, the devices and the store.

No other company does it all, he said, The PC ecosystem where one company makes the hardware another makes the software doesnt work, we do all of them, he added.

I don't think Apple'll be leaving the hardware market anytime soon...
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post #38 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
I call bulls*it on the "not enough demand" comments.

I'd be surprised if they weren't true. Is there enough people wanting to pay the extra money for an fm receiver to warrant the price hike for everyone (go out and look at the comparative prices once one is integrated), I'd say no. Apple has a modular design where if you want an accessory to do it you can add it at your own expense and their sales say they have the right design and function going right now. I'm sure if they feel later they can use it to add value they might but radio obviously isn't that big a seller or the iPod wouldn't be as successful as it is so just because you want something don't think you're the norm because clearly you aren't.
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post #39 of 44
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post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Lincolnrozelle
always with the the iPod radio.
What is it with you people?
What kind of radio then FM, LW, MW?
Or digital?
Internet radio?

Digital is where it is all going but until there is more convergence there there is no need. If you want a radio buy a radio, why buy a radio/iPod for £139/£200 when you can pick up a tiny portable one for £20 - if not less.

Mobile phone come with radios if you're such a gadget freak.. get one of those.

I doubt very much that Mr Jobs wants to get into producing radios. What's next? Televsion? Microwaves? Freezers? Fax Machines?

Get a life.

As far as Jobs being a buddhist: I doubt it.
He may like some of their ideas but a buddhist wouldn't have any interest in Apple. they're not big in individuality, proabaly more keen on M$.

Nuff said. Probably pi@@ed a lot of people off with my first post.

There's no reason for an iPod not to have a radio. Eh, I guess there is. I think they should sell an iPod, and then a Photo Viewer, and then an address book viewer and clock and three seperate devices. That would be a lot better.

Yes, he is a buddhist. Maybe he has an interest in Apple because he started it and everything?
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