Concerns mount over iPod nano LCD durability - Page 3

Response from Apple re nano screen concerns here.

The writers of the quite excellent Ars review also have expressed some skepticism/puzzlement over reports of nano delicateness.

So, I'd take reports of the nano's extreme scratch sensitivity with a fairly large chunk of salt.

Sounds like I'd expect. I think the biggest problem has just been the lack of accessories to protect it for people. I will also say that to get distortions on the LCD by pressing it you must be pressing with a hammer because I can't get it to happen.

...

Are you serious? I'll just assume you're joking, and say I had a real nice laugh from that.

All,

Just let me say this and I will then concede I'm an idiot.

On the Apple report...
Does it make any sense that a problem that affects
1/10th of 1 percent would make headlines this big and
this fast for a new product? I could see it if this
had been a previous problem. (Hmm...)

I know this is the internet age, but...

On ARS Technia...
Just because it has tech in the title...
What was the sample size tested? (2)
What was the frequency of the drops?
What distance?
What points of the Nano hit the ground?
What force (magnitude) was applied?
Why were accessories (i.e. Headphones) not connected?
(For example if I drop it from 2 ft. and it hits the
docking connector is my Nano hosed?)
etc...
In my opinion... - Not valid quality/stress testing.
Of course, I'm an idiot again here.
Those people that get training in quality and test and
have to pass certification tests for certain levels of
knowledge about testing... I guess they are wasting their
time too. Just ask the guys at ARS to drop it a few
times or run over it with their car...

On the headphones and remote...
No kidding the wire is broken.
Why is it I can buy a $4 pair of Sony headphones where there is strain relief on the audio jack?
Why is it almost any audio cables you buy have some form
of strain relief where the wires are soldered to the connector but not on the Apple ones for $40?

Dropping is not an intended use.
No kidding.
But is it a 'portable' device or not? (Stuff happens.)
I understand expecting it to survive a 5ft drop
or more without a case is not reasonable.
However, you think a 3 ft max drop when
it's in a leather cover is unreasonable?
I don't, but I'm an idiot.


Battery
No, I don't expect the battery to last forever.
So most 'portable' devices require you to take the
unit in, send it away, etc to have the battery replaced?
Better tell that to the digital camera, portable radio
makers, cell phone makers,etc.
They are missing a golden opportunity to make money.
Of course, people learned how to replace the battery
thru third parties or bought kits for less money...
Solution...
Let's make it even more difficult on the Nano.
Solder the battery connections to the board.


Assuming we all agree on the following:
You should NEVER drop your iPod ever.
It was not meant for that type of abuse.
Where was all the Research and Development money
spent? The product should be much cheaper to
produce right?
I mean why do stress tests or any sort of quality
tests on the product?

Why drop test notebooks? You shouldn't drop those either.
So do they waste money testing those too?

Again are these things portable or not?

So via the logic here...
I'm an idiot.
Others who had the same expectations for their 'portable'
device are idiots.
Conclusion:
Too many Idiots are buying Apple products.
Stop the idiots from buying Apple products.

In relation to the scratchability of the Nano screen, here's a tupid question:

Does the Nano Tubes accessory include a protection for the screen, or do they only cover the case minus the scroll wheel and the screen?

There was no info on the Apple site:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...ore=MA241G%2FA

brilliant. dont forget that the poster should also ask, "how do you know that this is a real iPod nano and not some cheap chinese/taiwanese knockoff? where did you buy it? yeah? some guy in some quote-unquote 'apple store'???"

yes, that would be great. this ipod thing is getting out of hand and totally screwing up the "smart, anally-retentive" demographic of apple/iPod users as it was pre-2002.

The apple headphones do have strain relief on the jack. I don't know why you think they don't they DO, and it works better than any other stress relief I've ever had. It just looks different. As for dropping it, don't wrap the cable around the ipod while its plugged in. if you drop it on the jack, that's your fault, not Apple's. Take responsibility please! I dropped my 40GB photo from 3 feet up and the hard drive went kaploop. And it was all my fault.


The iPod is sleaker and cooler when there's no access to the battery. I like it that way! I prefer Apple to keep it that way. To make it removable, they'd have to sacrifice design, because you'd have to design in a way for it to be removed by the user, which would make it bigger, and uglier. Millions of people like it the way it is, you are in the minority.

EDIT: You know this is especcially true with the nanos. Do you think a removable battery can successfully be added to the nano and still maintain a width thinner than a #2 pencil? No way!

What the people at ARS did was not following any sort of procedures, but that doesn't mean it's not valid. It's not like the nano would react any different, really. They did what people might do to there nano, THAT is most accurate.



Did this actually happen to you? It sounds to me like you are just saying this without any evidence. I havn't heard any reports about what you are saying. In addition, this isn't true. I know from owning and using my iPod nano that in can easily survive the drops you describe with no case and my nano has.


That's not actually at all true with the nano. I've dropped mine from atleast 4 feet onto concrete and it's has no noticeable damage as you can see from my previous picture. The nanos are so light that they have very little force when they hit the ground. They are portable devices and you can take them wherever you go. I have taken mine all over IN MY POCKET and there is no damage to it whatsoever.

phil the man has replied officially on the ipod nano screen issues:
http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/09...reen/index.php

"Apples Senior Vice President of Worldwide Product Marketing Phil Schiller said there are two completely separate issues going on here. One is the broken screen and the other is the complaint about the iPod screen scratches.

iPod nano owner Matthew Peterson setup his Web site, flawedmusicplayer.com (formerly ipodnanoflaw.com), to share his grievances about his broken iPod nano screen. Peterson invited others to send in pictures of their iPod nano screens, which he posted to the Web site.

In addressing the broken screens, the first of the two issues, Apple said that they have tracked down the problem.

This is a real but minor issue involving a vendor quality problem in a small number of units, said Schiller. In fact, this issue has affected less than 1/10 of 1 percent of the total iPod nano units that weve shipped. It is not a design issue.

Schiller said that if customers find they have this problem, all they have to do is contact AppleCare and their iPod will be replaced.

The second issue deals with complaints posted on Web sites that say the iPod nano screen scratches too easy, perhaps even being more susceptible to scratching than previous iPod models.

Apple said that the screens on the iPod nano are made with the same material that is found in the companys fourth-generation iPod, which, to date, is complaint free.

We have received very few calls from customers reporting this problem we do not think this is a widespread issue, said Schiller. If customers are concerned about scratching we suggest they use one of the many iPod nano cases to protect their iPod."

Regardless, Apple needs to counter these rumors, if they are rumors, and pretty damn fast. I'd be willing to bet that MS is behind some of the fanning of the flames, tho.

Well Apple have now admitted there is a problem with a few Nano's which will be replaced. It was obviously a faulty line of products because some people aren't reporting any problems. This may cause a few reductions in people buying iPods - there have always been problems though - batteries, now cracking screens.

I was a bit worried when I saw how thin it was that it might snap - maybe this is causing excess stress in the screen.

he said it was faulty screens, not stressing of it. I've held one in my hand and TRIED to stress it, It doesn't budge, the thing is solid.

All,

Okay, I apoligize in advance.
I said, I would stop, but there were some
comments I just couldn't let go.

I can only speak for the problems I had
with the 4th Gen 20Gig iPod I own.

Here are some fixes to the problems I have
had with it.

1) Headphones - broken wire issue.
Look at the audio jacks on these headphones.
(Either of the top 2 pics.)

http://www.pjbox.co.uk/KossHeadphones.htm

Now you can wrap the wire any way you want
and pretty much not worry about breaking it.

2) Headphones - Jack is mounted right behind
the LCD.

Move the Jack to the Bottom.
They did this on the Nano.
Hmm...
Do this on an iPod and you call it incovenient.
Do this on a Nano and its okay.
I know, it's the size. I'm sorry I'm being
stupid again.

3) Battery Issue -
Several Fixes
A) Use a set of pressure sensitive releases at
strategic points on the iPod just like on
some cell phones. Squeeze the metal part of
the case at these points for release. Could
be one or two points.

B) See how the hold switch works.
Use a recessed switch like this as a latch.
Place one on the side, top, or bottom.

C) Look at the retention tabs on the iPod.
You could put eyeglass size screw holes in
any one of the tab(s). Change the tabs and
allow one flat screw that sits flush with the
metal of the frame to keep it closed. I know,
it means you might actually see one tiny flat
screw (See A or B).

etc...

A battery replacement program was mentioned.
Was one of these in place when the product was
introduced? Answer - No

When they did introduce a battery replacement
was the price reasonable? - No

Why did they lower the price of battery
replacement? - People complained.

Why did they introduce the program? - People
complained. Can you say class action lawsuit?

How was the lawsuit settled? - Hmm

You are happy with the iPod the way it is.
Fine, but stop with the rave reviews and awards.

On the Nano battery and the No 2 size pencil...
Unless the connector for the battery is in some
way taller than the width of the battery I don't
understand why you couldn't make it so that it
isn't soldered to the Fab. Ever seen a right
angle 3 pin header that solders flush with the fab?
Again - Design awards?

On Ars Technia again...
The statement that their results are NOT invalid
because they did not follow a procedure is CORRECT.
You back my point entirely.
You can't have it both ways.
It also does NOT mean their results are valid.
My point exactly.
When you don't follow any kind of method or standard
test procedure you prove NOTHING.
Their results are useless and should NOT be spread
as a test of durability.

They are merely OPINION.
My point was that people seem to be seeing their
results and viewing them as proof of durability.
They prove NOTHING.

For Example...
On the sitting on the Nano issue.
Many clearly feel you should not put it in your
back pocket and sit on it.
There were some broken this way.
I would agree you really should NOT sit on it.

However, you can sit on it and break it, but run
a car over it and it's okay.
Again, backs my point.
They aren't doing anything to point out/test where
and how stress is applied.
It may have a flaw where very little force applied
in a certain way breaks 8 out of 10 times applied.
It may not have any weak points as such.
You don't know.

This info would be useful info in designing a case
for it.

Also...
Apple admits there is a problem with the screen.
Personally (JUST MY OPINION), I don't believe the
numbers he quotes, but that is just me.
However, there are still people here fighting it.
Apple said there was a problem.
Did I miss something?

Again...
Don't listen to me.
I'm being stupid.

Yes I'm aware of that but as it's so thin and tall I was just wondering whether it was more prone to snapping and therefore stress on the screen. I trust Apple and if they're producing one of these things it most be durable and properly designed.

Let me get this straight:

Are some of you here stating that for its size, weight, and design, the nano should still be expected to withstand large amounts of leverage applied to it when sat on or bent?

Exactly, that's my point - it can't possibly be as strong.

Why? In fact the smaller size with the same materials as the 4G iPods should make it structurally stronger, unless it is living a secret double life as a geodesic dome.

not necessarily - not if the materials in this product are thinner and the new iPod nano is less curved as well so structurally it is different. Also you can get a greater leverage with this iPod because of the shape.

I still don't understand, the phones in those pictures were the same as the iPod phones. Except for the right angle ones. The iPod phones are better designed IMHO. Simply because I've broken just about every pair of earphones I've had witin 6 months. But I'm still using the iPod phones I got 1 1/2 years ago, and they even LOOK brand new. There's a different form of insulation on the iPod phones as well, I think its stronger and more durable.

As for the battery, correct me if I'm wrong, somebody. But aren't the iPod batteries very delicate, basically long and flat. It would be hard to design an iPod where any idot (because there are idiots out there) could easily insert and remove the battery, and still maintain the size and cool factor.


I can give it rave reviews and awards if I want to. That's freedom of speech.



Come on, seriously, you can't say they prove NOTHING. They proved it can be run over by a car. As well as other things. That's definitely not nothing.



Would you stop calling yourself stupid. Nobody called you stupid. You just have stupid opinions No I'm only kidding. You're not stupid. We just disagree.

EDIT: Or... is this a joke? You're being serious and I shouldn't listen to you.

I think the comments earlier about strain on the headphone jack was not about the plug that goes into the iPod but the jack INSIDE the iPod. No matter what headphones you use, if you use enough subtle leverage over a long time, that jack is going to come loose and possibly give you big connection problems.

That's one thing I've been concerned about with the nano. With the jack where it is, I'm wondering if we're going to see a lot of jacks go bad because the pad of people's palms will have pressed against it so much for so long. We'll just have to see.