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MS and Intel back HD DVD over Blu-ray - Page 7

post #241 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
yes yes playstation has done the whole realtime manipulation thing before. you dont remember ps2's presentation of real time manipulation ?

even so lets say Metal Gear solid looks taht good when it comes out. are you forgetting thats cinematics? those images aren't even gameplay. its a ploy they use and man do people still fall for it.

kids go crazy seeing cinematics of Madden, even with the 360. But thats not even gameplay? it makes no difference really...

the ps2 won because of the dvd player they had. the first year or so of the ps2's life had virtually no killer games. people who bought dreamcast had awesome games to play right out of the box.

i think playstation is banking on another add on to win this generation again. however unlike sega, microsoft ins't trying to bounce back, they have the money incase of an emergency.

Kojima always used in-game graphics for the cinemas. He doesn't use
pre-rendered cinemas in the Metal Gear games.
Brock Samson: You didn't tell me Sasquatch was a... a dude.
Steve Summers: What, you couldn't tell?
Brock Samson: Not until I had to...[shudders] shave him.
Steve Summers: What are you, shy?...
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Brock Samson: You didn't tell me Sasquatch was a... a dude.
Steve Summers: What, you couldn't tell?
Brock Samson: Not until I had to...[shudders] shave him.
Steve Summers: What are you, shy?...
Reply
post #242 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978

Exlir - the 360 has 17 launch titles, the PS3 has over 100. If anything, the PS3 (from the looks of things so far) will dominate even more this generation than last. My favorite developer (snowblind) is going with the 360, but most are going with both or just the PS3.

yup, do you remember how many games the ps2 was supposed to launch with? haha

do you know how many it ended up launching with?

7.


dont bite on every word from execs k?

even our beloved Steve Jobs promised us something and we never got it... i'm sure you guys know what i'm talking about.

just because they say it, doesn't mean its going to happen.


goes for everyone.
post #243 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
yup, do you remember how many games the ps2 was supposed to launch with? haha

do you know how many it ended up launching with?

7.

A big difference being the PS2 could play the 100s of PS1 games.

Xbox360 will be using a totally different architecture from XBox, backwarda compatibility might be an issue.
James Savage - "You can take my Mac when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

http://www.blackcat-software.com/
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James Savage - "You can take my Mac when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

http://www.blackcat-software.com/
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post #244 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackcat
A big difference being the PS2 could play the 100s of PS1 games.

Xbox360 will be using a totally different architecture from XBox, backwarda compatibility might be an issue.

It is an issue. They first denyed that it would be possible. Then they said maybe. Then they said a few. Of course those will have to be rewritten, recompiled, tweeked, etc.
post #245 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
It is an issue. They first denyed that it would be possible. Then they said maybe. Then they said a few. Of course those will have to be rewritten, recompiled, tweeked, etc.

We know it's an issue from using VPC - running x86 code on a PPC ain't quick. I suppose chucking 3x 3GHz CPUs at the issue will help.

For me recompiled isn't backward compatibility as users will need to rebuy games.
James Savage - "You can take my Mac when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

http://www.blackcat-software.com/
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James Savage - "You can take my Mac when you pry it from my cold dead fingers"

http://www.blackcat-software.com/
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post #246 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackcat
We know it's an issue from using VPC - running x86 code on a PPC ain't quick. I suppose chucking 3x 3GHz CPUs at the issue will help.

For me recompiled isn't backward compatibility as users will need to rebuy games.

Maybe they'll give the updates to anyone who has a registered copy. That would be good publicity, and help to offset some of the disappointment, at least for those who have those games.

So far the games programmers have been only using one chip and two threads. Same problem on the PS2. I would hope that as they get more time and experience more power will be used on both machines.
post #247 of 298
oy vey...! i know i'm notorious when it comes to off topic rants but this xbox360 vs ps3 is getting really whack man... talking about porting linux apps to ps3 or something? WTF? i woke up this morning to this thread confused and bewildered

anyway, so... WarnerBrothers is very likely according to engadget to announce bluRay support as one of the above posters mentioned, meaning all the major studios (except Universal) have announced bluRay.

Looks like the walls are rapidly closing in on Toshiba and hD-DVD, and idiot execs at MS and Intel shure are looking like dicks at this stage with their last-minute "hd dvd is teh rock!111!!" gamble. for all its might M$ even is not able to get a grip on next-gen hidef. really shows you that in regards to hidef, content really is king.

edit: my guess is that there is no way apple has negotiated for h.264 downloads for movie or tv shows for the video ipod. i guess 5% chance there may be a video ipod, even then only music videos at 480p max.
post #248 of 298
Hey, it won't be long before you want to start a countdown. I'm too eager to find out tomorrows financials first though.
post #249 of 298
Backwards compatibility is an issue, more so for nitnedo and
Ps2 than it is for Xbox. Xbox only needs a few games to work, they dont have the huge library nintendo and playstation have even though this will officially be nintendo's first year porting all games to the current system (huge asset for them)

xbox needs key titles and thats it. why port everything? i dont see many kids wanting to play last gen games that aren't hits except for those coming from later years such as ps1 and pregamecube era.


HD-DVD is not dead. most people are still on the fence, able to market dvd's for either format. there is a significant amount of time left. if the xbox360 comes out in full force this could sway other people to back off from blu-ray, ps3 still has some time to come out swinging.....



too soon to tell.
post #250 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
Backwards compatibility is an issue, more so for nitnedo and
Ps2 than it is for Xbox. Xbox only needs a few games to work, they dont have the huge library nintendo and playstation have even though this will officially be nintendo's first year porting all games to the current system (huge asset for them)

xbox needs key titles and thats it. why port everything? i dont see many kids wanting to play last gen games that aren't hits except for those coming from later years such as ps1 and pregamecube era.


HD-DVD is not dead. most people are still on the fence, able to market dvd's for either format. there is a significant amount of time left. if the xbox360 comes out in full force this could sway other people to back off from blu-ray, ps3 still has some time to come out swinging.....



too soon to tell.

Good, let's get back to BR and HD drives.

There are a number of threads here and other places about this.

It seems at this time that BR is on top. All the major studios except Universal have committed to it. Three exclusively and two will do both. Three have committed to HD, one exclusively and the same two will do both. Most computer companies committed to BR. There are at least four manufacturing companies demoing drives vs one for Hd.

BR will come out with drives by spring that both record 25GB R/RE, and 50GB R/RE. They might do double sided, but haven't said. They playback 25 and 50GB single side, and 100GB two sided. They can get a full Hi-def movie plus specials plus a standard DVD movie on one side with a label on the other.

HD will come out with drives end of first quarter or sometime second quarter. It will play 15 and 30GB on one side. Maybe there will be two sided 60GB disks at release, maybe not. It will play a hi-def movie with extras on one side, but the standard DVD must be on the second side. No label. Recorders won't be out at first. They will come "later". When they do come out they will record a 20GB RE, and if they are ready a 15GB R. Eventually they may record 30GB R's but they say it might take years. They also haven't said anything about two sided recordable disks.

HD will have "mandatory" managed copy. What we know about it so far is that it will require an internet connection to be able to do it. The consensus is that they will charge. How much? They don't say. Probably case by case.

BR also has managed copy, but haven't said whether it will be "mandatory" The guess is that it will be up to the studios.

There are other features that BR has as well that HD doesn't. One of the reasons the HD Assoc gave for the delay to next year was that they were adding "features" - the same ones that BR has already.

The 360 will have a DVD, no HD DVD. The PS3 will have Blu-Ray. Paramount and other studios have said that one of the reasons they chose BR was because of that.

Intel has no influence over this process, and it's new attempts to mediate has been called "tainted".

MS has a lot to lose if BR becomes standard as they chose to use the industry developed BD-Java as opposed to MS's iHD, which they call "developmental", i.e. - unfinished and buggy, and that it also "didn't go far enough in providing a compelling feature set beyond DVD, while BD-J offered studios a much richer palette for providing a compelling interactive HD experience for consumers, particularly when a player is connected to a network."

This is in the Panasonic press release as well as the one from HP and Paramount, and also from the two association sites.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that none of what I said is my own opinion. All of it is public.
post #251 of 298
Originally posted by melgross
..... I'm too eager to find out tomorrows financials first though.....


aw yeahh... apple madness this week. i'm trying to get back into flash coding so i'll see if i can whip up a countdown timer thingymajigy. interesting how the conf. call will be at 5pm usa eastern on tuesday ~ after markets close. i suppose this is common...

anyway looks like people have slowly been taking their profits for those comfortable with exiting at $51-$52. going into january though the share price will blow past $60 i reckon.

well enough of *my* off topic rambling
post #252 of 298
what about the size of these players? i saw one for HD-DVD that was HUGE. are they going to be bigger? whats the deal with that.

my problem with blu-ray is the price. how much will this cost me? they say HD-DVD wont cost nearly as much as blu-ray.
post #253 of 298
we know that one type of bluRay player will cost as much as a PS3. this bluRay player incidentally, IS the PS3.
just being a smartass here
post #254 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
It is an issue. They first denyed that it would be possible. Then they said maybe. Then they said a few. Of course those will have to be rewritten, recompiled, tweeked, etc.

Then again, it's not like there are that many games for the XBox that people would be motivated to play a year from now.

In poker terms, a gaming PC dominates XBox. I find there is little reason to get an XBox if you have or plan to have a gaming PC. They rule in FPS, strategy and MMORPGs. Apart from FPS, what does the XBox have that the PS2 doesn't?

On PS2, on the other hand, you get all arcade, action, sports, fighting, horror titles that don't exist on PC, and a lot you don't get on XBox. Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Katamari Damacy, Gran Turismo, dance games... these two devices complement each other well.
post #255 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
what about the size of these players? i saw one for HD-DVD that was HUGE. are they going to be bigger? whats the deal with that.

my problem with blu-ray is the price. how much will this cost me? they say HD-DVD wont cost nearly as much as blu-ray.

The size of the OEM players will be exactly the same. half size for computer use, or for a standalone box, amd 12.5 mm height for portable use.

The prices should be about the same. Just remember the first HD DVD platyers will be just that - a player. The first Blu-Ray units will also include recorders.

At any rate, this will be the first gen. It always costs more. The PS3 is wxpected to cost $400 with the player.
post #256 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Gon
Then again, it's not like there are that many games for the XBox that people would be motivated to play a year from now.

In poker terms, a gaming PC dominates XBox. I find there is little reason to get an XBox if you have or plan to have a gaming PC. They rule in FPS, strategy and MMORPGs. Apart from FPS, what does the XBox have that the PS2 doesn't?

On PS2, on the other hand, you get all arcade, action, sports, fighting, horror titles that don't exist on PC, and a lot you don't get on XBox. Tekken, Virtua Fighter, Katamari Damacy, Gran Turismo, dance games... these two devices complement each other well.

now see this is the type of ignorance i can not stand. no offense to you or anything but WOW

ok lets do a checklist

1. xbox was out for one year, did not have all the developers that ps had. however they are gaining HUGE ground here considering most if not all programmers will be making games for the 360

2. dance games, games like katamari damacy ARE NOT VITAL GAMES. these are games for hardcore gamers. what are the statistics of hardcore gamers vs casual? hmmm lets think of art deco cinema vs summer action flick.

3. grand turismo is now matched by froza motorsport, tekeen and virtu fighter can be easily matched up with dead or alive (even dead or alive beach volleyball)

4. PC's outmatch any gaming rig of the earlier years. hell in a year or two it willl be right up there with the 360 and ps3. PC gaming is also big because of its online, WHICH DING DING xbox 360 will be well above anything else that can even attempt to match PC gaming.


5. what do you mean? Halo by far besides Half Life 1 was one of the most played video games EVER. 4 years plus halo 1 was being played. Halo 2 could easily last another 2 years if wanted. what does playstation have? tell me? GTA ? umm xbox has that and its even better. come on now


i dont want to sound like a fanboy but man some of these arguments just aren't substantiel enough
post #257 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
now see this is the type of ignorance i can not stand. no offense to you or anything but WOW

Funnily enough, that's what I feel reading your utterly clueless posts on this thread. There are folks with years of actual professional game development experience here, and even that doesn't make you the slightest bit reluctant to spew out stuff like "Sony loses money on Playstation" that would show false in five seconds of googling.
Quote:
1. xbox was out for one year, did not have all the developers that ps had. however they are gaining HUGE ground here considering most if not all programmers will be making games for the 360

Had you paid attention, you'd see I was comparing the PS2 and XBox. Not Sony (which you repeatedly call "Playstation") and Microsoft, not next generation consoles, but the current ones and the games that are out for them - the games whose compatibility matters.
Quote:
2. dance games, games like katamari damacy ARE NOT VITAL GAMES. these are games for hardcore gamers. what are the statistics of hardcore gamers vs casual? hmmm lets think of art deco cinema vs summer action flick.

Wrong to the point where it borders on the absurd.

Katamari is one of the most casual games to come out on non-handheld consoles in years, so either you don't understand what the term means or you are trolling.

As for mainstream, PS2 has quite enough mainstream stuff, mostly the same titles XBox does. Note that most mainstream stuff has zero appeal left after the next gen sequels are out.

To reiterate: the only thing where XBox has a significant edge over PS2 - FPS games - is one where it's utterly crushed by a Windows PC. PS2's major strengths do not overlap with PC's, so it happily coexists with one.
Quote:
3. grand turismo is now matched by froza motorsport, tekeen and virtu fighter can be easily matched up with dead or alive (even dead or alive beach volleyball)

Ever more clueless. DoA has quality graphics and lots of tits and ass, but it lacks the depth of gameplay in league with Virtua Fighter, Guilty Gear or Soul Calibur. This is evident not only from the accounts of hardcore players, but from the sizes of communities and amounts of tournaments organized. DoA is also not the super brand that Tekken or Virtua Fighter are. I admit driving games are a bad example, because that genre is highly evolutive and past driving games have little to offer later on.

DoA Beach Volleyball? Time to pull out the ol' trusty "". I guess you really were trolling.
Quote:
4. PC's outmatch any gaming rig of the earlier years. hell in a year or two it willl be right up there with the 360 and ps3. PC gaming is also big because of its online, WHICH DING DING xbox 360 will be well above anything else that can even attempt to match PC gaming.

PC systematically outmatches anything including the new consoles in some game genres due to input, community, networking, modifyability. It's not a performance issue. It never was.

Regarding network play, we know nothing of what the PS3 will have. Common sense would suggest it's worse than on the 360 because Sony has less experience running a proper multiplayer system, but then again they have more than enough time to copy whatever the 360 has and make it better.
Quote:
5. what do you mean? Halo by far besides Half Life 1 was one of the most played video games EVER. 4 years plus halo 1 was being played. Halo 2 could easily last another 2 years if wanted. what does playstation have? tell me? GTA ? umm xbox has that and its even better. come on now

Halo is one of the "few games" I was talking about. Fact is, most of what's out on the XBox is going to be superceded by next gen versions because it's bland crap shoveled from the bowels of EA. The games with novel gameplay and content are what people will want to play even after next gen stuff is out, and that the PS2 has aplenty.
Quote:
i dont want to sound like a fanboy but man some of these arguments just aren't substantiel enough

You apparently don't want to sound like a boy who can spell and capitalize, either.
post #258 of 298
its funny that you claim im trolling while everything coming out of your mouth holds as much weight as it does coming out of mine.

everything you have said is a matter of opinion, besides the ps2 losing money.

when i said that i meant when it was first released, sorry.


even though you commit fallacy after fallacy you like to point out mine


not to mention you really gotta be a lame ass to pick out capitalization and spelling errors


don't be that guy.
post #259 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
its funny that you claim im trolling while everything coming out of your mouth holds as much weight as it does coming out of mine.

everything you have said is a matter of opinion, besides the ps2 losing money.

when i said that i meant when it was first released, sorry.


even though you commit fallacy after fallacy you like to point out mine


not to mention you really gotta be a lame ass to pick out capitalization and spelling errors


don't be that guy.

But he is pretty much on the point.

While you may put them down, dance games are very popular.

Dance Dance Revolution is amazingly popular. More consoles are sold to those under 18 than to those over it. My daughter, who is now 14 has had the PS2 since it first came out, as do most of her friends. Almost every one has DDR. They all have two dance pads and buy every DVD that comes out for it. That's several a year. A hell of a franchise. Every person under 18 who comes over, and sometimes it's seven or eight kids, plays this dame. Sometimes for several hours!!!

MS has concentrated on FPS games, and only so many of those are popular at any one time, and lose their thrill after a short time. Racing games, dance games, and games like skateboard games have much more staying power. I see that all the time.

Also, most of MS's games (other than those for network play) seem to be for one player. Most of the games my daughter and her friends buy are used at get togethers and parties. MUCH more fun. That's why they have PS2's and are looking foward to the PS3.

My daughter buys at least 20 games a year for the PS2 and about the same number for the Gamecube. She hasn't bought even one for MY XBox, even though I would allow her to use it if she wanted to.

The 360 has nothing over the PS3 except for an early release date. We will see if that can overcome all of its disadvantages, such as lacking a hi-def solution.
post #260 of 298
post #261 of 298
well i hope microsoft and intel don't trip with all the backpedalling they're gonna have to do sucked in, losers
post #262 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
its funny that you claim im trolling while everything coming out of your mouth holds as much weight as it does coming out of mine.

If you meant we have displayed the same amount of credentials, then you'd be right. I have some, but there's no point to ad hominem arguments. On the content, you are demonstrably wrong on several points.
Quote:
everything you have said is a matter of opinion, besides the ps2 losing money.

Wrong. I put out a number of hard facts. Examples follow:

- Katamari Damacy is a casual game as opposed to a hardcore game like you claimed. So are, in fact, the dance games for which you made the same claim.
Proof: google for "casual game definition" and see what comes up. Or pick up a book on the subject of game design.

- Dead or Alive is lacking in deep gameplay in comparison to top fighting games, as evidenced by the experiences of hardcore players, the game's non-presence in tournaments, and lack of strong communities.
Proof: browse tournament listings at shoryuken.com and see how many major tournaments it has been played at.

- Dead or Alive is not comparable to Tekken as a brand.
Proof: Hit Google. Tekken has sold over 20 million copies. I couldn't find an exact number for DoA, but it's roughly 2 million for DoA2, 1 million for DoA3. I would put an estimate at <4 million.
Quote:
even though you commit fallacy after fallacy you like to point out mine

That's nice. What specific fallacies would you be talking about, mr. "DoA Beach Volleyball equals Tekken"?
Quote:
not to mention you really gotta be a lame ass to pick out capitalization and spelling errors


don't be that guy.

I didn't "pick out" any errors, which would be pointless in any case since your posts are riddled with them. Being written poorly makes the posts harder to read, but the main thing is, if you don't bother to write normal English, it appears you don't give a damn about the discussion or respect your fellow forumites. If this was actual inability to spell or write, that would be different, but your output is not that of a dyslexic. If there was some content that was accurate, insightful, or interesting, I would not care about the form it's delivered in. But there isn't.
post #263 of 298
Quote:

Here's what the article DOESN'T say.

(from a post I made to AppleInsider in a HD DVD Blu-Ray discussion.)


It seems at this time that BR is on top. All the major studios except Universal have committed to it. Three exclusively and two will do both. Three have committed to HD, one exclusively and the same two will do both. Most computer companies committed to BR. There are at least four manufacturing companies demoing drives vs one for Hd.

BR will come out with drives by spring that both record 25GB R/RE, and 50GB R/RE. They might do double sided, but haven't said. They playback 25 and 50GB single side, and 100GB two sided. They can get a full Hi-def movie plus specials plus a standard DVD movie on one side with a label on the other.

HD will come out with drives end of first quarter or sometime second quarter. It will play 15 and 30GB on one side. Maybe there will be two sided 60GB disks at release, maybe not. It will play a hi-def movie with extras on one side, but the standard DVD must be on the second side. No label. Recorders won't be out at first. They will come "later". When they do come out they will record a 20GB RE, and if they are ready a 15GB R. Eventually they may record 30GB R's but they say it might take years. They also haven't said anything about two sided recordable disks.

HD will have "mandatory" managed copy. What we know about it so far is that it will require an internet connection to be able to do it. The consensus is that they will charge. How much? They don't say. Probably case by case.

BR also has managed copy, but haven't said whether it will be "mandatory" The guess is that it will be up to the studios.

There are other features that BR has as well that HD doesn't. One of the reasons the HD Assoc gave for the delay to next year was that they were adding "features" - the same ones that BR has already.

The 360 will have a DVD, no HD DVD. The PS3 will have Blu-Ray. Paramount and other studios have said that one of the reasons they chose BR was because of that.

Intel has no influence over this process, and it's new attempts to mediate has been called "tainted".

MS has a lot to lose if BR becomes standard as they chose to use the industry developed BD-Java as opposed to MS's iHD, which they call "developmental", i.e. - unfinished and buggy, and that it also "didn't go far enough in providing a compelling feature set beyond DVD, while BD-J offered studios a much richer palette for providing a compelling interactive HD experience for consumers, particularly when a player is connected to a network."

This is in the Panasonic press release as well as the one from HP and Paramount, and also from the two association sites.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that none of what I said is my own opinion. All of it is public.
post #264 of 298
ok, well again what you guys are trying to say is still a matter of opinion regardless if you type "google".

a lot of it is still subjective. what game has deeper gameplay? what "hardcore" gamers say, this and that is not based on a fact, sorry.

we'll see what happens with this and then we can discuss more later. as of now i'm done with it.
post #265 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Elixir
ok, well again what you guys are trying to say is still a matter of opinion regardless if you type "google".

a lot of it is still subjective. what game has deeper gameplay? what "hardcore" gamers say, this and that is not based on a fact, sorry.

we'll see what happens with this and then we can discuss more later. as of now i'm done with it.

I was going to suggest the same thing. We're not getting anywhere.
post #266 of 298
good. now kiss and make up. and send pics. you're both chicks, right? oh wait, i'm on the wrong forum here... wtf?
post #267 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
good. now kiss and make up. and send pics. you're both chicks, right? oh wait, i'm on the wrong forum here... wtf?

I could comment on that, but I won't.
post #268 of 298
This is all sound and fury. These formats are both bullshit. We're going to move from DVD to web distribution. DVD will remain adequate for a long time for the luddites and poor people.

This is a race to see who can become the biggest irrelevant player.

Here's a question that requires answering:
How many people out there are actually clamoring for an HD upgrade to DVD movies in their homes?

Show Joe Sixpack a true 480p display showing a quality 480p DVD movie and that's good enough for him. He can buy all the PS3s in the world but that won't upgrade his SDTV.
So little Johnny Snotrag is going up to daddy saying not only does daddy need to buy a $500 video game machine, he has to re-buy all his DVDs in this new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD crap for $30+ a pop AND little Johnny Snotrag can't see the full effects of this new stuff on his old SDTV so daddy gets to buy him a $2000+ HDTV to enjoy it all on.

All of you are drastically overestimating the demand for any of this and, oddly enough, it seems like the man with more disposable income than everyone else in the world, Bill Gates, is the only big pimp on the block who acknowledges it in the open.
Quote:
For us it's not the physical format. Understand that this is the last physical format there will ever be. Everything's going to be streamed directly or on a hard disk. So, in this way, it's even unclear how much this one counts.

These technologies are going to be nice for computers and storage, but these things are not going to take over the home entertainment market. People are still infatuated with DVD quality and have invested a lot in DVD setups. And for good reason, 480p on a nice set is gorgeous and, compared to 720p and the near-non-existent 1080p, economical.

Past that, the Blu-Ray fanboys are hilarious. They are begging the studios to shove even more DRM up their asses because Blu-Ray offers more storage capacity.
"I don't want my rights as a citizen, I want 10 more gigabytes!"

How about you buy a 500GB drive right now or the 750GB->1TB drives that will be available by the time that PS3 ships instead?

The home entertainment market belongs to the Internet and the hard drive (or whatever permanent mass-storage device follows the traditional hard drive).

e#s:

Your stance on the PS3 is one of the most insane things I have ever read in my life.

Pull your head out of the silicon and think about what you are saying.

Only one person can use the television at once. Little Johnny Snotrag isn't going to be able to IM his buddies on PS3-L00nix while daddy is watching Monday Night Football or mommy is watching Desperate Housewives.

There is no reason to merge the computer and the television, they are completely separate entities.
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post #269 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Your stance on the PS3 is one of the most insane things I have ever read in my life.

More insane than my political ideas? I doubt that...

Anyway, time will tell. I think that the time has come for a universal computer, and I think that a PS3 will be as fast a computer as most people need for the next 5 years. If Sony can flood the world with PS3s, they can have a much bigger market share than they had with the PS2 (i.e. > 200 million units).

It would be pretty convienient to have PS3s all over the place, with a nice graphical Linux on them. It would be like slightly uglier (much cheaper, faster) Macs, but with more games than the PC.
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post #270 of 298
Grove....

you've always been a sensible guy but today you kicked it up a notch. %100 spot on.

Frankly both formats are pissing me off. The content providers are pissing me off. The hardware companies are pissing me off.

I'm seeing greed and the avarical desire supercede any notion of what the consumer might actually want. You know it's pretty freakin' bad with the King of DRM Microsoft has to tell the BDA to back off. Think about that...a company that has DRM up to the monitor has to tell Sony to back off with the DRM...that's a riot.

A dark horse is out there. It could be IPTV or some other movie delivery system but I sense a change coming. I sense the established hegemony being blindsided by the independents.

The only thing we need is very fast broadband (24-50Mbps) and enough brains to turn the damn TV off and find some thoughtful enterainment.

These content companies don't realize the buzzsaw their running into. Already I can by a Roku Labs Soundbridge radio and bypass AM/FM altogher.

When the lines blur between broadcast tv/radio and internetcast you will see a shift in the balance of power. Like osmosis, consumers will flow to the format that gives them the most choice and flexibility.

If they price BR and HD DVD movies at $30 expect a large Meh! from consumers as they stick with DVD and upconverting DVD players.

Severely disappointed in Seattle. HM
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post #271 of 298
i agree with you guys completely. this dvd war is wasted air.





i love comments like "if sony can flood the world with ps3"

the system doesn't even have a release date and people are talking about world domination?


people are going to be bitting their tongues in the end
post #272 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
More insane than my political ideas? I doubt that...

Anyway, time will tell. I think that the time has come for a universal computer, and I think that a PS3 will be as fast a computer as most people need for the next 5 years. If Sony can flood the world with PS3s, they can have a much bigger market share than they had with the PS2 (i.e. > 200 million units).

It would be pretty convienient to have PS3s all over the place, with a nice graphical Linux on them. It would be like slightly uglier (much cheaper, faster) Macs, but with more games than the PC.

Crazy name, crazy dude!
post #273 of 298
groverat wins the prize for prescient correctitude.

Its probably already too late for either format.
post #274 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
This is all sound and fury. These formats are both bullshit. We're going to move from DVD to web distribution. DVD will remain adequate for a long time for the luddites and poor people.

This is a race to see who can become the biggest irrelevant player.

Here's a question that requires answering:
How many people out there are actually clamoring for an HD upgrade to DVD movies in their homes?

Show Joe Sixpack a true 480p display showing a quality 480p DVD movie and that's good enough for him. He can buy all the PS3s in the world but that won't upgrade his SDTV.
So little Johnny Snotrag is going up to daddy saying not only does daddy need to buy a $500 video game machine, he has to re-buy all his DVDs in this new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD crap for $30+ a pop AND little Johnny Snotrag can't see the full effects of this new stuff on his old SDTV so daddy gets to buy him a $2000+ HDTV to enjoy it all on.

All of you are drastically overestimating the demand for any of this and, oddly enough, it seems like the man with more disposable income than everyone else in the world, Bill Gates, is the only big pimp on the block who acknowledges it in the open.


These technologies are going to be nice for computers and storage, but these things are not going to take over the home entertainment market. People are still infatuated with DVD quality and have invested a lot in DVD setups. And for good reason, 480p on a nice set is gorgeous and, compared to 720p and the near-non-existent 1080p, economical.

Past that, the Blu-Ray fanboys are hilarious. They are begging the studios to shove even more DRM up their asses because Blu-Ray offers more storage capacity.
"I don't want my rights as a citizen, I want 10 more gigabytes!"

How about you buy a 500GB drive right now or the 750GB->1TB drives that will be available by the time that PS3 ships instead?

The home entertainment market belongs to the Internet and the hard drive (or whatever permanent mass-storage device follows the traditional hard drive).

e#s:

Your stance on the PS3 is one of the most insane things I have ever read in my life.

Pull your head out of the silicon and think about what you are saying.

Only one person can use the television at once. Little Johnny Snotrag isn't going to be able to IM his buddies on PS3-L00nix while daddy is watching Monday Night Football or mommy is watching Desperate Housewives.

There is no reason to merge the computer and the television, they are completely separate entities.

Don't get so upset. This is just entertainment.

We aren't going to decide anyway. Besides, it will take two years until we see if it's going to be sucessful.
post #275 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
Here's a question that requires answering:
How many people out there are actually clamoring for an HD upgrade to DVD movies in their homes?

Uh, well... me? Actually there are quite a few people out there, and HDTVs are selling. Its not a landslide, but the more reasons to move up to HDTV there are (channels, HD movies, etc) the more people will move. The good old chicken & egg problem.

Quote:
...he has to re-buy all his DVDs in this new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD crap for $30+ a pop AND little Johnny Snotrag can't see the full effects of this new stuff on his old SDTV so daddy gets to buy him a $2000+ HDTV to enjoy it all on.

No need to replace everything -- most people didn't replace all the VHS tapes when DVD came along.

Quote:
There is no reason to merge the computer and the television, they are completely separate entities.

Here we agree. I do want to see a slick way to present media from the computer (possibly acquired via network) to my entertainment system(s) while the computer is in use by somebody else, however. That still hasn't been done right, although not for lack of trying.
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post #276 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by vinney57
Crazy name, crazy dude!

They said that about Einstein too...
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post #277 of 298
In the UK its only recent that LCD TVs have caught on, with 22" sets going for £500ish. Now HD LCD is being hyped but the specs are no different, except 22" is more like £1000 for the same resolution.

With current LCDs not being able to view HDTV, no way to record HDTV and competing Disc standards I'm not so sure either will catch on; I'm certainly not buying a new TV after just 12 months.

I'll be buying a PS3 though.
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post #278 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by Blackcat
In the UK its only recent that LCD TVs have caught on, with 22" sets going for £500ish. Now HD LCD is being hyped but the specs are no different, except 22" is more like £1000 for the same resolution.

With current LCDs not being able to view HDTV, no way to record HDTV and competing Disc standards I'm not so sure either will catch on; I'm certainly not buying a new TV after just 12 months.

I'll be buying a PS3 though.

There are far more LCD TV monitors out there that are capable of viewing Hi-Def than plasma's. In fact, one of the attractions of LCD's is their capability to do that. There is only one or two very large very expensive (approx $20,000) plasma's capable of showing true 1080p, but quite a few more LCD's in smaller sizes at far lower prices that can. Even more so when comparing 720 or 768p.
The new 1080p rear projection DLP monitors I've seen are extremely good, and have larger sizes and lower prices for those sizes than even LCD.

So don't dispair. The quality, as always, is going up while the price is coming down.
post #279 of 298
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
There are far more LCD TV monitors out there that are capable of viewing Hi-Def than plasma's. In fact, one of the attractions of LCD's is their capability to do that. There is only one or two very large very expensive (approx $20,000) plasma's capable of showing true 1080p, but quite a few more LCD's in smaller sizes at far lower prices that can. Even more so when comparing 720 or 768p.
The new 1080p rear projection DLP monitors I've seen are extremely good, and have larger sizes and lower prices for those sizes than even LCD.

So don't dispair. The quality, as always, is going up while the price is coming down.

Oh the specs are there, but the damn silly HDCP connector isn't. My LCD could happily show 720 but there is no way to get the signal in.

It's this that will put people off, most LCDs here have SCART and VGA inputs which means no HDTV.
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post #280 of 298
Why pay $500 for a PS3 that is less powerful and has less software than a $300 PC that you're already familiar with?

The PS3 is a game machine. That's what it is. Kuturagi is coming out with marketing tripe because this thing is going to be stupid expensive and he needs to pump up the hype as much as possible to justify it.

Also, for the vast majority of people the idea of spending more than $500 on a television is insanity. People out there have underpaying jobs and kids and plenty of other fixed costs. The idea that a $500 video game machine with its multi-thousand dollar tagalongs is going to take over

Right now HDTV is ~10% market share. Industry hopefuls see 50+% by 2008, three years from now.

Big, ugly burn-out prone DLP boxes are going to turn wives off. They already hate CRTs enough, they don't need something even bigger making their living rooms look terrible. And I do not blame them. Projection is dying (sales are falling, plasma is rising).

It's all flat-screen from here on out. Once we see quality 30"-40" LCD/Plasma/SED(wetdream) HDTVs in the sub-$1k range we'll start thinking about how truly necessary HD movie media is. And if we're not already getting a ton of HD content over the Internet by 2008 I'm going to kill Steve Jobs and Bill Gates both with my bare hands.


Programmer:

Quote:
Uh, well... me?

Fantastic. Welcome to the niche.

Quote:
Actually there are quite a few people out there, and HDTVs are selling. Its not a landslide, but the more reasons to move up to HDTV there are (channels, HD movies, etc) the more people will move. The good old chicken & egg problem.

It has to be a landslide to get market penetration. Blu-Ray/HD-DVD are going to offer absolutely no picture quality advantage on an SDTV or EDTV. And the vast majority of all televisions already installed are SD or ED. The vast majority of televisions selling right now are SD or ED.

DVD was so great because it offered to max out the quality your SD television could put out and it still impresses people because they still mostly watch cable/sat television which is lesser quality than DVD.

If you've got an SDTV or EDTV (which 90%+ of people do), Blu-Ray/HD-DVD is just pouring money and picture quality down the drain. They are not going to do it because there is no advantage to them.

The cost of entry isn't just the price of the media and players, it's the price of the television(s). This cannot be ignored.

Quote:
No need to replace everything -- most people didn't replace all the VHS tapes when DVD came along.

But if you don't even have an HDTV what is the point?

And if you're cutting edge enough to have an HDTV, why waste time with stupid optical discs when you can just get everything over the Internet?
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD could get big if the studios simply stonewall all attempts to get movies (HD or otherwise) online. That's really the only way.

If either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD make it, you should probably be so pissed off at the greedy bastard studios that you just pirate everything anyway. It will be a sign that something is bad wrong.

These things are stop-gaps, band-aids. Little paper bridges between the present and future.

And with that in mind, I think the real-world costs of Blu-Ray and HD-DVD should come to mind.
If it's a bridge you're just going to end up tearing down, why not make it as utilitarian and cheap as possible?
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