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New PowerBooks, Power Macs due shortly - Page 2

post #41 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by sandboxface
ok.. so.. the question for me: WHEN WILL WE SEE INTEL IN POWERMACS?

I'd guess over a year.

Quote:
Originally posted by sandboxface
i'm thinking about upgrading, but not sure if i should stick it out for the intel macs. i currently run a dual 2gig G5 rev A. i mainly work in final cut and everything runs speedy.

i'm really hesitant to buy another G5 (although a dual core tower would rip some ass), but not sure if i should just stick it out for intel. thoughts?

It'd also be pointless for you to upgrade without native Intel versions of Final Cut. So wait until that comes out at least. I imagine that is over a year away too.

If you think you really need a faster computer in the next year then buy a PowerPC PowerMac on the next update. It'll quite likely also be more stable than the first RevA Intels too so should see you through a couple of years of trouble free computing whilst the crash test dummies are beta testing Intel Macs.
post #42 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by bigmig
I think by "PCI-X" you mean PCI-Express. ... And either PCI-X or AGP would be an inferior interface to the PCI-Express currently available on the "consumer" iMac.

PCI-X / PCIe is rediculously commonly confused, in my opinion, PCIe should never have had the PCI letters for this reason, at least a lot of PCI-X and PCI devices and slots can be interchanged without changing hardware, that can't be said of PCIe.

I too doubt the new systems would have PCI-X, that would be stupid as no video card that I am aware of uses it and would be fiscally stupid if you want to use affordable video cards.
post #43 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by sandboxface
i mainly work in final cut and everything runs speedy.

i'm really hesitant to buy another G5 (although a dual core tower would rip some ass), but not sure if i should just stick it out for intel. thoughts?

If everything runs speedy... it doesn't seem like you have much reason to upgrade. Nobody knows exactly when the pmacs will transition but speculation says they'll be among the last.
post #44 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
So what are they using in the new iMac to get DDR2 and PCI-E ? That's new too and probably of not much longer lifespan.

What comes after U3? The PowerPC Power Mac is expected to live for another year or more.
post #45 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by sandboxface
ok.. so.. the question for me: WHEN WILL WE SEE INTEL IN POWERMACS?

i'm thinking about upgrading, but not sure if i should stick it out for the intel macs. i currently run a dual 2gig G5 rev A. i mainly work in final cut and everything runs speedy.

i'm really hesitant to buy another G5 (although a dual core tower would rip some ass), but not sure if i should just stick it out for intel. thoughts?

I think it'll be a year before you see Intel PMacs, personally. I think dual-dual G5 + PCIe will be smokin' Intel for a little while yet.

The PBs and iMacs will go Intel first. The dual G5 will keep the PM relevant, and besides, with Adobe dragging their ass, Intel PMacs pretty much have to wait. Actually, Apple would be smart to sell both PPC and Intel PMacs for a little while.

Finally, the iBooks and mini will go over. This way, performance stays in check with price and needs.
The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
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post #46 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by johnsonwax
I think it'll be a year before you see Intel PMacs, personally. I think dual-dual G5 + PCIe will be smokin' Intel for a little while yet.

In terms of the workstation performance roost, I think products such as HP's xw9300 workstation is the thing to beat right now. SLI capable, purchasable with just one CPU (with an extra empty socket), upgradeable to dual CPU and even dual-dual core without replacing the computer and it officially accepts up to 16GB of RAM with four memory channels. It's anything but an affordable machine when decked out, but the scalability is there in many ways.
post #47 of 191
This may seem a little off topic....but.....is there room for an app. such as FrontRow in any other updates to other macs? Or is this something that is an iMac only kind of thing. I'd love to see it in all new macs but am curious how it would work inside a non-all-in-one design. I'd really like to have the capabilities of such a program but feel I need more power than a single chip iMac can offer.\
-Adam
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-Adam
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post #48 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by wmf
Intrepid 2 doesn't make sense. Why develop a new chipset that will only be used for 6 months?

Low-end Power Macs may use two 970FX chips instead of one 970MP for cost reasons.



Do two 970FX's have less areal density than one 970MP?

Do two 970FX'x have less pinouts than one 970MP?

Do two 970FX's consume less power than one 970MP?

Are two 970FX's on a MB less complicated than two 970MP's on a MB?

I think the answers to these questions are a 4-way (pun intended) NO!

No, I think AI has it right, one MB with 970MP dualies across the line!

simple + cheap + efficient = higher margins (the bottom line)

YeeeHaaah, sign me up, I'm gettin' one, and I'm callin' it Rascal!

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #49 of 191
I'm interested in purchasing the new 20in iMac and maxing its options out as well as to seeing if the Dual-Core PowerMac arrives.

The PowerBook bores the hell out of me. I've got an iBook for portability issues. When I want to sit down and crunch numbers I'll look to the other two system scenarios I just mentioned.
post #50 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Probably the latter, since Apple is rumored to be pushing hard to get the Intel switch done quickly.

I still think that we're going to end up with some unhappy creative professionals if Photoshop et al isn't running on Intel by the time the Powermacs come out.

Adobe have said that they're aiming for Intel versions out by the end of next year; all things be equal, they'll probably start pushing Intel based PowerMacs first to developers, hence the big push will be probably laptops, mini-Macs.

Then AGAIN, they did say "announcement at the next developer conference" - the key point is announcement NOT shipment - like how Solaris was ANNOUNCED in November, but wasn't shipped until the beginning of this year.

It will be the same situation; the last thing they want is a situation where by their products are shipping but there isn't a substantial number of third party vendors producing software for the public to purchase.
post #51 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
PCI-X / PCIe is rediculously commonly confused, in my opinion, PCIe should never have had the PCI letters for this reason, at least a lot of PCI-X and PCI devices and slots can be interchanged without changing hardware, that can't be said of PCIe.

I too doubt the new systems would have PCI-X, that would be stupid as no video card that I am aware of uses it and would be fiscally stupid if you want to use affordable video cards.

Oh, come on, its pretty dam basic; at the *LEAST* the assumption should be that PCI-X equates to PCI eXtended vs PCIe which is PCI express. Hardly rocket science material IMHO.

Regarding the PCIe; they've almost finished work on PCIe version 2, which have even MORE bandwidth - maybe we'll start seeing Intel PowerMacs with PCIe version 2.0 by the time they're released next year - I wouldn't be surprised.
post #52 of 191
I don't think Apple will be able to whiz-bang surprise announce its intel based machines like other models in the past.

With the substantial need for the apps to be properly readied there will need to be a significant public lead time so the devs get it in gear.

Expect announcements like the first iMac, months out. Say, MWSF for April kinda thing.

Devs need the window to package and prep downloads, etc as needed.

"Available Today" will not be part of the scenario.

Z
post #53 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by zaz
I don't think Apple will be able to whiz-bang surprise announce its intel based machines like other models in the past.

With the substantial need for the apps to be properly readied there will need to be a significant public lead time so the devs get it in gear.

Expect announcements like the first iMac, months out. Say, MWSF for April kinda thing.

Devs need the window to package and prep downloads, etc as needed.

"Available Today" will not be part of the scenario.

Z



Yup, agree 100% on that one.

Too many cooks in the kitchen to keep a lid on the MacTels.

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #54 of 191


Woo Hoo, on those expected PB sidegrades!

Boo Hoo, to those 1.67GHz G4's.

The PB now most definitely enters the catagory of SB status!

The S stands for Slowest!

I'm pullin' the plug on this one, I'm pullin' a Rip van Winkle, someone here on AI please wake me up when the MacTel PB's (64-bit dualies) arrive.

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #55 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by franksargent


Woo Hoo, on those expected PB sidegrades!

Boo Hoo, to those 1.67GHz G4's.

The PB now most definitely enters the catagory of SB status!

The S stands for Slowest!

I'm pullin' the plug on this one, I'm pullin' a Rip van Winkle, someone here on AI please wake me up when the MacTel PB's (64-bit dualies) arrive.


=(


i need a laptop damnit.
post #56 of 191
This thread moved fast!


A lot of things going on here.

I doubt that we'll see any Intel machine before the beginning second quarter, earliest. This rumor about Apple pushing for early is just that a rumor.

The article didn't say anything about PCI X. Did someone post that and then change it? PCI Express is usually referred to as either the Express Bus, or just Express. Rarely does anyone say PCI Express. While X is an extension to PCI, Express is totally different. It's a serial bus, not PCI at all. Everything seems to be moving to serial. First Firewire, then Express, then SATA. Even SCSI has a serial counterpart coming up.

Apple and other manufacturers have stated that 300 dpi monitors will never become a mainstream product. There is no need for such a thing. We might see 150.

We also won't see a Power 5 chipset in a Mac. The chip set costs about $3,000 for the dual cpu version, and uses over 225 watts. Cooling that in a standard tower like Apple uses would be very difficult. It's easier when spread between two chips.

Freescales 600 series chips has been discussed for some time now. We don't know when those will be available. Look at the 7448.

Also the chips use a different memory bus than do the 74xx series. They also consume even more power. More heat, less battery life.

The slot loading Blu-Ray drives aren't supposed to be ready until March. On the other hand, if, somehow, enough were made to get to Apple in the top line PB and PM, we would see content for christmas. The manufacturers and studios backing BR would just love to get titles out to show HD DVD backers and MS that not only are they not "years away", but first.

But I doubt it.

They've been working on Intrepid 2 for quite some time. Apple as we all know, takes their sweet time to transition to new boards and chips.

It's much cheaper to do a dual core rather than two single cores. The cost of the cooling unit itself is very high, and the power drain from the pump etc. is something that Apple would like to do away with. But it might be cheaper to just carry on with the old board for the low price model. It's a tough one. Depends on their pricing model. Remember the G5's have had the lowest model on the older PCI bus.

I'm curious as to what video cards will be standard in an Express machine, if indeed this will be one. I also wonder if they will be offering an ATI 1800 series or an Nvidia 7800, and if so, which ones.

The only thing that Apple would need to do to make FrontRow work is an IR receiver in or attached to the machine, like the one by the iMac camera, or the new iPod dock.

It would also be a hoot to get an Express PB, but with the same old chip!
post #57 of 191
This info seems to be corroborated by the UK store, which shows PowerMac shipping times as having jumped up to 5 days, and the 15 and 17in PowerBooks at 5 or 6-8 days. The 12in STILL remains unchanged. Could be interesting.
post #58 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I'm curious as to what video cards will be standard in an Express machine, if indeed this will be one.

X1300Pro in the highest model. X1300 in the others. Both speed crippled.
Hey it's Apple we're talking about.
post #59 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by smalM
X1300Pro in the highest model. X1300 in the others. Both speed crippled.
Hey it's Apple we're talking about.

nah im thinking Apple will fire up the extremely solid and time tested Rage 128's.

probably pack'em with very beefy 16MB (!) of Vram.

So watch out gamers... according to an internal memo written by none other than Steve Jobs himself... its definitely going to be "No-Holds-Barred" in Cupertino from here on out.
post #60 of 191


Nah, there's a new GPU maker in da house!

Check out http://www.etch-a-sketch.com/

And at a price point of $999.95 this IS a bargain!

Somehow a certain Cars tune comes to mind?

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #61 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by smalM
X1300Pro in the highest model. X1300 in the others. Both speed crippled.
Hey it's Apple we're talking about.

What are you talking about?
post #62 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by sandboxface
i'm really hesitant to buy another G5 (although a dual core tower would rip some ass), but not sure if i should just stick it out for intel. thoughts?

I don't want to buy rev. A of the intel macs, so I'm about to buy one of the new PMs - but I'm coming from an older 800 MHz TiBook. It sounds like single dual-core machines will not be drastically faster than current dualies; if you can afford a dual-dual core (I'm HOPING that isn't just the highest-priced box) then it would likely be worth it, otherwise I'd wait for Intel.
post #63 of 191
You are correct. There is virtually NO performance difference between dual core and dual processor. Unless of course you put TWO dual core CPU's in there, in which case you'll get performance similar to 4 single core CPU's...
post #64 of 191
My guess is they'll intro some Mactel machines without replacing existing models - a parallel line. That way people can transition at their own speed. I'd expect a smaller minitower case. Then, as sales pick up on the new machines, they can stop selling the old ones.
post #65 of 191
No, there's definitely a performance difference, since they're on the same die and have faster interchip communication.
post #66 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by cubist
My guess is they'll intro some Mactel machines without replacing existing models - a parallel line. That way people can transition at their own speed. I'd expect a smaller minitower case. Then, as sales pick up on the new machines, they can stop selling the old ones.

That's what I've been thinking. Probably only for the highend though, since that would be rediculous to confuse consumers that much.
post #67 of 191
I'm waiting for a kick ass Pentium-M PowerBook to replace my current model.
MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

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MacBook Pro 15" (Unibody)/2.4GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250GB HD/SuperDrive
iMac 20"/2 GHz Core 2 Duo/2 GB RAM/250 GB/SuperDrive
PowerBook G4 12"/1 GHz/1.25 GB RAM/60GB/Combo
iMac G3 333 MHz/96 MB...

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post #68 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
No, there's definitely a performance difference, since they're on the same die and have faster interchip communication.

Depends on how they have made them. They have either done the two separate cpu's on a die with little between them as Intel has done with some of theirs, or have taken the route of integrating them further as Intel is doing with later versions, and as AMD is doing now. I'm not really sure which approach they've taken.

But either way, they now have to share the same bus out to main memory, and that's a bottleneck.
post #69 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Depends on how they have made them. They have either done the two separate cpu's on a die with little between them as Intel has done with some of theirs, or have taken the route of integrating them further as Intel is doing with later versions, and as AMD is doing now. I'm not really sure which approach they've taken.

But either way, they now have to share the same bus out to main memory, and that's a bottleneck.

I would think that it would be the latter due to IBM's experience with multi core chips far exceeds that of Intel and AMD
post #70 of 191
Big question, I had trouble with my 15 inch pb and so thursday I shipped it back to apple fedex ground, apple care is letting me upgrade to the 17inch....so the big question is, are people who are ordering the powerbook today going to get the new version if it really is coming weds?
they are not putting my order in til they get my 15 inch back so I am thinking Monday.
post #71 of 191
The fact that the 12" iBook is crippled so that you can't use a Cinema Display with it makes me upset when I see the unsuredness of a 12" PowerBook upgrade. At the end of this semester, I'm going to buy a 12" Powerbook with a 20" Cinema Display and use it for the next 4-5 years while working on my PhD. If the 15" and 17" get nice HD displays and cool new features while the PB 12" get "upgraded" to a 1.67 GHz G4 and 512 MB RAM standard... I'm not going to be happy.

I don't remember a time when the three PBs haven't been upgraded simultaneously. Have they? If it's true that the 15" and 17" are the only ones getting nice new stuff, then the 12" may die. But what would they replace it with? They'll have to - the iBook doesn't work with the displays! Maybe a 13.1" widescreen model? Maybe they release new Cinema Displays that work with VGA instead of DVI-only? Maybe they release a cheap adapter that allows VGA to work with the display? I don't know - but they have to have something or I'm going to go nuts!
post #72 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by kaiwai
Oh, come on, its pretty dam basic; at the *LEAST* the assumption should be that PCI-X equates to PCI eXtended vs PCIe which is PCI express. Hardly rocket science material IMHO.

I'm sure there are people that confuse it and think PCI-X equates to PCI-eXpress and PCIe to PCI-Extended. IMO, the only reason to keep them so similar is to pick out who knows what they are talking about from those that don't. I'm surprised that Intel et. al. didn't learn from the extended / expanded memory type debacle from the years back.

Most people have other things to think about than that though, people writing articles about it should be getting it right.
post #73 of 191
well, my thoughts is that the 12" would have been discontinued already if it were not selling still, but this next upgrade should finish it off.....Ive been following the rumours for quite a while and it seems like apple recruited a bunch of vaio engineers to help them with the new designs....so you can expect the 12 inch replacement in the early part of next year when the macintels finally emerge...the current model is just going to fade away as sales dry up. The 15 inch is really portable though...I have been carrying mine around for 2 months and it really is an easy tote, and even in the current congig the 15 really outshines the 12 as far as image quality.
post #74 of 191
Well, I'm in that screwed position of having to order a new PowerMac next week. The big question is whether or not the new PowerMacs are announced. However, if I do wait for an announcement, the second big question is when will the new PowerMacs ship? Immediately or will it be 6-8 weeks?
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post #75 of 191
I need to add to that that I am replacing my 15 with a 17 though...I was the victim of the lower slot anomally and when they replaced my logic board they replaced it with the wrong one 1.5 150bus...so when they offered me a new one I was quite rattled and decide to move to a different machine.
post #76 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Well, I'm in that screwed position of having to order a new PowerMac next week. The big question is whether or not the new PowerMacs are announced. However, if I do wait for an announcement, the second big question is when will the new PowerMacs ship? Immediately or will it be 6-8 weeks?

Usually there's only a wait if they announce an all-new machine at a keynote. A simple upgrade will usually be available immediately.
post #77 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by jherrling
I would think that it would be the latter due to IBM's experience with multi core chips far exceeds that of Intel and AMD

You might think that, but you don't know that.

I also thought that due to IBM's experience with dual cores they would have had the MP out way before Intel and AMD. We were expecting that. But they didn't. We were expecting it at least 18 months ago. So don't expect anything at this time. Just hope.
post #78 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
I'm sure there are people that confuse it and think PCI-X equates to PCI-eXpress and PCIe to PCI-Extended. IMO, the only reason to keep them so similar is to pick out who knows what they are talking about from those that don't. I'm surprised that Intel et. al. didn't learn from the extended / expanded memory type debacle from the years back.

Most people have other things to think about than that though, people writing articles about it should be getting it right.

I have never met anyone who has ever thought that.

The only other's than Apple to use X are workstation and server manufacturers. The people who buy and use those systems know what it means.

Almost no one else has even ever heard of PCI X except in reference to Apple's machines, or PC enthusiasts who know the difference.
post #79 of 191
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I have never met anyone who has ever thought that.

The only other's than Apple to use X are workstation and server manufacturers. The people who buy and use those systems know what it means.

Almost no one else has even ever heard of PCI X except in reference to Apple's machines, or PC enthusiasts who know the difference.

Not "met", but I see a LOT of people online that confuse the two, some of them should have known better. Some people are just peripherally aware of PCI-X, having seen the logo somehow, somewhere, and seem to assume it meant PCI-express simply because they aren't aware there are two different standards.
post #80 of 191
I would kill for a 1920x1200 Powerbook

I mean, if they dont do that - what else is there to upgrade?

Oh please please please Apple.
I NEED a hi-res Powerbook!

(Flash takes up way too much screen real-estate =/ )
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