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new iPod not firewire???

post #1 of 61
10/13/05 at 5:50pm
Thread Starter 
Firewire is faster...why are they going usb???
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post #2 of 61
10/13/05 at 5:53pm
Isn't that quite obvious? for all those windows users who don't have firewire in their pc.
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post #3 of 61
10/13/05 at 8:00pm
Thread Starter 
Damn those useless Windows users!!!!
Firewire is SO much better and SO much faster...so how long is it going to take to update songs? FOR (4) - EVERRRRRRRRRRR........they chould have at least madea port for firewire on the dock or something....or did they???
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post #4 of 61
10/13/05 at 8:58pm
How much slower is usb2 compared to firewire?

Is it a big deal or is it minor?
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post #5 of 61
10/13/05 at 9:08pm
Apple is forgetting early model customers who had Firewire but only USB1...
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post #6 of 61
10/13/05 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally posted by johnsocal
How much slower is usb2 compared to firewire?

Is it a big deal or is it minor?

The FireWire included with earlier iPods was FireWire 400. USB 2.0 is 480.
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post #7 of 61
10/13/05 at 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
The FireWire included with earlier iPods was FireWire 400. USB 2.0 is 480.

True, but that's only the max theoretical data rate. I believe in practice, FireWire is still faster.
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post #8 of 61
10/14/05 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Ra
True, but that's only the max theoretical data rate. I believe in practice, FireWire is still faster.

You are correct.
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post #9 of 61
10/14/05 at 1:56pm
It doesn't make an ounce of difference given the drive speed is slower than what either USB 2 or Firewire actually achieve. This is just Apple cutting costs. When the iPod was originally released it was marketed only for macs, which only had firewire. These days the major market is windows and new macs have USB 2 anyway, time to cut cost and cut Firewire.

I love Firewire but supporting both is more expensive than just USB 2.
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post #10 of 61
10/14/05 at 3:17pm
Thread Starter 
So does anyone have some realtime stats on whether or not usb2 is as fast as firewire?
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post #11 of 61
10/14/05 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by drumsticks
Apple is forgetting early model customers who had Firewire but only USB1...

THIS is the issue.

Firewire vs. USB 2 speeds are not the issue here. they are comparable and the iPod isn't something you'll be using as a primary hard drive, anyways.

Anyhow, back to the point, one great thing about Apple computers is their continued relevence and usefulness even at the low-end. USB 2 isn't even in 2-year old iBooks, and firewire is available in some macs since the late 1990s. It sucks to see Apple making some users' computers feel long in the tooth when it is absolutely unnecessary.

At least, I assume an adapter is available?
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post #12 of 61
10/14/05 at 3:37pm
That really depends, Usb2 has bigger burst speed, so in burst situations Usb2 is faster, FireWire is capable to make independent transactions, so in longer run FW starts to turn the table to it's advance. So in applications where you need to transfer big chunks of data, like capturing video firewire shines. But in iPod situation it shouldn't make any difference what cable you use. As telomar said the drive is the limiting part here.
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post #13 of 61
10/14/05 at 4:28pm
My fuckin PowerBook from only a year ago only has USB 1.

BAD MOVE.

They should have either not done this, or give up on FireWire 100%. Just call it off. This basically means it's going down the tubes, just as it could have taken off, with FW 800.
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post #14 of 61
10/14/05 at 4:40pm
apparently the firewire cable can be purchased separately for $19. lame. lame. lame!!!! argh!!! give us a motherF#R#*()$ choice when we buy it!

edit: i thought of what the WORST part of this actually is...it is when someone like my dad decides to get an iPod for his iLamp and goes home and it takes 12 hours to download songs onto it. My dad has no idea and will just think this is how it goes...he spent $1650 on a new computer just 2.5 year ago, after all.
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post #15 of 61
10/14/05 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally posted by O-Mac
So does anyone have some realtime stats on whether or not usb2 is as fast as firewire?

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/usb20vsfirewire/ FW is nearly twice as fast sustained.

The other key issue for OS X is that USB devices are not bootable. (some other OS can boot USB, but not OS X)
FW can be used as a boot volume (though regular use isn't recommended as it can wear out iPod's drive - get an external FW drive if you want it as a primary partition -, it is valuable as a portable emergency volume and extends iPod utility... up til this year's models)

Removal of FW support from the latest iPods is a step back in features IMHO. Booo.
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post #16 of 61
10/14/05 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally posted by progmac
apparently the firewire cable can be purchased separately for $19.

You can use the cable to charge, but not to sync apparently.
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post #17 of 61
10/14/05 at 5:51pm
Thread Starter 
It's hard to believe that not a while lot of people seemed to be upset about this...
Well, maybe the next versions of iPods will go back to firewire...
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post #18 of 61
10/14/05 at 6:26pm
I wonder if a third party will make a Firewire->USB 2 adapter. I have a smart hub that converts USB 2 to Firewire, it would be slick if I had a Firewire-only device but didn't have Firewire ports.
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post #19 of 61
10/14/05 at 10:42pm
Im sure by the time the mactels come out next year they wont have any firewire ports.

How much longer does it take to download 1 song via usb2 vs firewire?
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post #20 of 61
10/14/05 at 11:32pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
My fuckin PowerBook from only a year ago only has USB 1.

How can that be? I bought my 12" PowerBook in March '04 and it has USB 2.0... I thought they were all standard back then.
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post #21 of 61
10/15/05 at 7:15am
It could be perhaps that 95% of iPod purchases are for Windows machines.
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post #22 of 61
10/15/05 at 7:24am
So have two ports. This was a bad compromise.

OK my powerbook is maybe almost two years old. It's the first rev 12" PB. I was appalled in the first place it didn't' have USB 2, but then, I thought I'd never need it.

Bootable is a huge feature of the iPod for me. Not cool. FW is superior to USB in so many other ways, too. The iPod, with its ever expanding capacity and thirst for bandwidth, with Lossless, and and now video for crying out loud, will suck with USB.
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post #23 of 61
10/15/05 at 7:05pm
And all to keep the Windows market (who *aren't* switching) happy..
I think it's a very odd stance for Apple to take.

But who am I to judge their business model. Hey, I'm happy with everything else they do.

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post #24 of 61
10/15/05 at 9:49pm
So, will the cable I use with my 20 GB iPod NOT work with the new Video iPod?

If so, my USB ports are full on my iMac, I guess that means I have to get a USB to FW adapter or get a stinkn' hub. I hate clutter...
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post #25 of 61
10/15/05 at 10:31pm
Firewire isn't going to disappear from Macs, that's silly.

They probably disabled firewire to stop people from putting their iPod into target disk mode, and blowing the drive.
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post #26 of 61
10/16/05 at 12:39am
Quote:
Originally posted by johnsocal
Im sure by the time the mactels come out next year they wont have any firewire ports.

How much longer does it take to download 1 song via usb2 vs firewire?

That would be a great step backward, after having led in industry use of FireWire. It would be pretty thick. FireWire is useful in so many ways, how could professional machines not have this, or for that matter home machines?

There must be another reason for it.
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post #27 of 61
10/16/05 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
Firewire isn't going to disappear from Macs, that's silly.

They probably disabled firewire to stop people from putting their iPod into target disk mode, and blowing the drive.

That could be true, but if someone told us 356 days ago that Apple would be switching to intel we would all have thought that to be 'silly'.
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post #28 of 61
10/16/05 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally posted by johnsocal
That could be true, but if someone told us 356 days ago that Apple would be switching to intel we would all have that to be 'silly'.

I was actually thinking about that while posting, but for Macs to drop firewire, then Firewire would have to be dropped by companies who make Audio gear (firewire is far less processor intensive than USB) as well as Video gear. Those are both big Mac markets, so I think it's safe to say Firewire is around for a while.
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post #29 of 61
10/16/05 at 2:16pm
Started an online petition for Apple to reinstate Firewire support in the next revision of the iPod video:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/ab1987/petition.html
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post #30 of 61
10/17/05 at 7:42am
Originally posted by O-Mac
So does anyone have some realtime stats on whether or not usb2 is as fast as firewire?

f**k burst transfer of usb and all that rubbish. FW400 is faster than USB2. period.

at this stage, i have to say to certain posters, you were right. i have only now come to terms with the fact that the new ipod videos i mean big capacity ones, do not have FW for sync/transfer even as an option. WTF stupid dumbass windoze users. they can't even spend just a little extra to get decent motherboards (like asus) which have FW400 on the motherboard which works great. WTF.
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post #31 of 61
10/17/05 at 9:19am
http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm some real-time stats
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post #32 of 61
10/17/05 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally posted by progmac
THIS is the issue.

Firewire vs. USB 2 speeds are not the issue here. they are comparable and the iPod isn't something you'll be using as a primary hard drive, anyways.

Anyhow, back to the point, one great thing about Apple computers is their continued relevence and usefulness even at the low-end. USB 2 isn't even in 2-year old iBooks, and firewire is available in some macs since the late 1990s. It sucks to see Apple making some users' computers feel long in the tooth when it is absolutely unnecessary.

At least, I assume an adapter is available?

This bugs me a lot. I have four current Macs that work wonderfully in running my business. None of them have a USB2 connection. I would love to update to something new, but business isn't good enough to justify it.

Now, I can't buy a new iPod. And no, there isn't an adapter. I could, very slowly, put music on a new iPod, but I couldn't charge it. I had been updating my iPods about yearly, but I guess I won't now until I can afford a new Mac.
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post #33 of 61
10/17/05 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally posted by progmac
[B]apparently the firewire cable can be purchased separately for $19. lame. lame. lame!!!! argh!!! give us a motherF#R#*()$ choice when we buy it!

Look closer. The firewire cable is not compatible at all with the nano or video iPods. When they first made the cable an ad on, I posted that I was afraid they were dropping fire-wire. Everyone pooh-poohed it and said, "Quit complaining, it's only a few dollars to ad it back."

But now, like I feared, it's gone for good.
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post #34 of 61
10/17/05 at 1:06pm
This is a cost cutting measure by Apple. They could have gone Firewire-only instead, like it used to be actually, but that would leave many PC users out in the cold.

USB 2 is quite a lot slower than even Firewire 400. With large files, even Firewire 400 is 70% faster than USB 2.0! Not to mention Firewire 800... Syncing the iPod, Firewire is faster versus USB 2.0, though the difference is not significant due to the slow drive.
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post #35 of 61
10/17/05 at 3:47pm
Quote:
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
Look closer. The firewire cable is not compatible at all with the nano or video iPods. When they first made the cable an ad on, I posted that I was afraid they were dropping fire-wire. Everyone pooh-poohed it and said, "Quit complaining, it's only a few dollars to ad it back."

But now, like I feared, it's gone for good.


well, that's why i had to post above, i was one of the kids that pooh-poohed you you were right. i would pick up a nice 8gb ipod mini on clearance before they are gone if you don't have one by now. (edit: i mean 6gb)
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post #36 of 61
10/22/05 at 3:52pm
138 Total Signatures so far
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post #37 of 61
10/22/05 at 5:03pm
This has been discussed much in other threads.

While I prefer FireWire over USB 2.0, I like thinner/cheaper iPods more.
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post #38 of 61
10/22/05 at 8:15pm
I'm one of those poor soles that syncs his iPod via USB 1. Sure the first sync took a while but now it syncs faster than it takes to charge the battery.
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post #39 of 61
10/22/05 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by celebi23
138 Total Signatures so far

well that will go up great against the millions of ipod nano and ipod video users oblivious to the lack of firewire \
in any case, i am signatory no. 150. god bless democracy. and at least i can still surf pr0n here in malaysistan.
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post #40 of 61
10/22/05 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by fng
I'm one of those poor soles that syncs his iPod via USB 1. Sure the first sync took a while but now it syncs faster than it takes to charge the battery.

That's probably a good way to think of it, though I find that I sync more often than I charge. I charge every few days, but I sync every day to keep up with the latest podcasts.

I really don't know if I'll buy the new iPod, but I am finding that encoding video for it is dog-slow, though it might be the source video.
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