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Apple enhances PowerBooks with higher-res displays - Page 2

post #41 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by sjk
A 13.3" with the same resolution as the old 15" would have gotten my attention. I'm totally untempted by the 12" PB with the same resolution as my 4-year-old 12" iBook G3 it would replace. Although it's bigger than I'd like I may eventually consider a 15" if the right deal comes along.

---------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I deliberately mentioned the Sony Vaio 13.3" that has a 1280x800 resolution, IIRC. And it weighs less than the 12" PB. It's also black, which I'd love in a powerbook. Anyway, seeing as Apple has used Sony-designed PBs in the past, it'd be great if, once they move to Intel, if they could put out something similar to the Vaio 13.3". In the meantime, I'll be holding onto my 12" PB 1.33 with 4x Superdrive, which more than does the job and connects great to my 19" LCD with DVI when working at home. Just a great setup for someone who isn't on the road every day... in which case I'd probably go for the 15", which is a fantastic deal, as others have mentioned: not enough to make me want to upgrade right away, but if I were in the market for a new PB, I wouldn't hesitate.
post #42 of 79
Where does the 20% longer battery life come from? The battery appears to have the same part number as previous PowerBooks on the Apple website. The screen is brighter and likely uses more power. The memory is different, but I don't know if that makes a significant difference. Everything else appears to be the same assuming that it really has the 7447A processor.
post #43 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by Corey
My 1Gig TiBook is getting a tad long in the tooth, but I really don't feel compelled to cough up 2k for a new one.

Keep in mind that PowerBook resale values are pretty high. You can get maybe $700 bucks for your current laptop. Check out eBay.
post #44 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by CrazyWingman
At last! I've been waiting and waiting for a PB update before buying a new computer. They updated today, and I bought tonight. I am now the proud new owner of a 12" PowerBook.

"A 12" PowerBook?" you all ask? Yes. I find it to be the perfect size, with a great amount of power. And the best part is what most sites aren't reporting on: there may not have been a big upgrade to them, but there was quite a good price drop. 20 extra gigs of hard drive space, plus a Super Drive for the price of the Combo. In addition, almost no one noticed that Apple also dropped the price of dropping in a gig of RAM from $475 to $250.

So, I've finally joined the club, and I'm enjoying what I see so far. I've only had a couple hours to play around tonight. Real trials will come tomorrow and over the weekend. I need to set up .mac and build a website about my honeymoon.

Hope there are some other happy people around here.

Congratulation, enjoy, be happy.
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post #45 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by dh87
Where does the 20% longer battery life come from?

From marketing people... maybe? When the first units ship and we have some reports, it will be more clear.
post #46 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by a j stev
I guess that we can expect another incremental update to the powerbooks and mini in February if the 7448 is to ever be included in this Apple line up. Either that or its all the way with x86.\

This last update means two things to me.

(1) Despite the fact that the 7448 is available in small quantities for some months now, Freescale seems unable to produce at this moment (and for the 1-2 months to come) sufficient quantities for Apple. In that respect, Freescale is not at all better than old-mamma Motorola.

(2) The next Powerbook will be Intel-based. Count around April-May. Apple cannot aford to let the Powerbook in this situation for long. Besides, it will be no long time from now that the iBook will need another refresh. What they will do then? I see the portables going soon Intel (spring 2006). Unless the least probable scenario occurs: Apple updates this winter/spring once more the Powerbook, with the 7448 this time, leaving room for another PPC iBook update.
post #47 of 79
Now wait a moment. Do I see correctly or my eyes play tricks with me? The 12" iBook has 512 MB RAM built-in and one free user-accessible slot, while the "new" 12" Powerbook has 256 MB RAM built-in and onother 256 in the user-accessible slot? The 12" iBook got updated GPU in July, while the 12" Powerbook has still the same old school geforce 5200 fx go? Really, after this update I wonder if the 12" Powerbook is already EOL. What changed anyway with it? Did Apple drop the price just to clear inventory?
post #48 of 79
Yeah, I noticed that too, thought maybe it was a misprint when Apple specs said max. RAM was 1.25GB!
If so, I find it doubly negative: lower max. RAM, plus a bit misleading when you see "512MB" RAM as standard, without specifying that it's 2 banks.
A step backwards.
post #49 of 79
It's very possible that Apple expects that the 12" iBooks will fill in for the 12" PB when the Mactels come along.
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post #50 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
It's very possible that Apple expects that the 12" iBooks will fill in for the 12" PB when the Mactels come along.

I don't know if it is this or else, but I certainly feel something up in the air about the 12" Powerbook.
post #51 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
I don't know if it is this or else, but I certainly feel something up in the air about the 12" Powerbook.

Me too.

But Apple needs a Pro series thin and light.

My guess is it will go 12" or 13" widescreen and they have not finished yet. It will probably debut when Intel comes out in Apple hardware.
post #52 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by dh87
Where does the 20% longer battery life come from? The battery appears to have the same part number as previous PowerBooks on the Apple website. The screen is brighter and likely uses more power. The memory is different, but I don't know if that makes a significant difference. Everything else appears to be the same assuming that it really has the 7447A processor.


I suspect it's the screen that makes the bulk of the difference.
post #53 of 79
The 12" not getting an update was very odd. No GPU update, no superdrive update and the base RAM still 256MB on the board. The 12" is essentially the same computer under the skin as the 12" iBook which had an update earlier in the year to 512MB onboard.

The 7448 no-show is also suspicious. So, is it Freescale not delivering or Apple fscking up the update and going with minor tweaks to the old design?

A few days before the update there was a story on Engadget about an ultrathin, ultrabright slightly higher res 11.1" display from Toshiba. That would have been fantastic in a small laptop replacement for the 12" powerbook.
post #54 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign

The 7448 no-show is also suspicious. So, is it Freescale not delivering or Apple fscking up the update and going with minor tweaks to the old design?

I doubt Apple would choose to update with minor touches here and there, like they did. They would never risk the end of the year buying season if they could. My guess is that Freescale was unable to produce the 7448 in sufficient quantities before the next year comes.
post #55 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
I doubt Apple would choose to update with minor touches here and there, like they did. They would never risk the end of the year buying season if they could. My guess is that Freescale was unable to produce the 7448 in sufficient quantities before the next year comes.

I'm not so sure.

We've all had 'Plan B - tart up the old version because Plan A isn't working' projects. See also Windows Vista. They're at least on Plan B now, if not Plan G. ;-)
post #56 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
The 12" is essentially the same computer under the skin as the 12" iBook which had an update earlier in the year to 512MB onboard.

Unless I'm mistaken the 12" exactly the same, i.e. unchanged by yesterday's updates.
post #57 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by sjk
Unless I'm mistaken the 12" exactly the same, i.e. unchanged by yesterday's updates.

Indeed. But I was comparing the 12" Powerbook with the 12" iBook, which WAS updated earlier in the year to get 512MB soldered on to the motherboard. The Powerbook is still 256MB.
post #58 of 79
I now believe that the lack of a 12-inch PowerBook update (processor, display, video, etc.) are a pretty good indication that these models are stop gap PowerBooks until Apple rolls out the new PowerBooks next year between January and March.

If you will recall, MacWorld San Fran has been the venue for major new PowerBooks. The Titanium and Aluminum PowerBooks debuted there. And other PowerBooks, like the Lombard were released at a now dysfunctional show in Tokyo. So the winter has always been good for MAJOR PowerBook updates. Here's to hoping...
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post #59 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
The Powerbook is still 256MB.

'Tis the sad truth.
post #60 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by DHagan4755
I now believe that the lack of a 12-inch PowerBook update (processor, display, video, etc.) are a pretty good indication that these models are stop gap PowerBooks until Apple rolls out the new PowerBooks next year between January and March.

If that's the case then we're into possible Intel Powerbook territory and for me, that would be too early a switch. I don't want Rev A and I've lots of PPC software still that I'm not going to update for a year or so more (till after 10.5 at least).

Which means that we're possibly looking at the last PowerPC Powerbooks and I was hoping they'd be a nice final update. Just a brighter screen and better GPU on the 12" would have done for me. 7448 would have been nice and 512MB on the motherboard. Maybe I'll just save the cash and get another iBook to tide me over replacing my old G3 for when I need a laptop.

Dunno. Possibly they just didn't have a 12" update ready this week and it's due next week? at MacExpo in the UK? Possibly there's another PowerPC at MWSF and Intel in the Powerbook is 2H 06 with Merom afterall? It's awful second guessing Apple just now.
post #61 of 79
I don't think the Intel switch will happen that quickly. I think the Intel transisiton will be pretty slow, and Apple will develop PPC for at least another year.

Jobs seems to be about symmetry and balance. I can see him wanting to take the entire Macintosh line to G5.

The dual PowerMac will carry us through the next year. I wouldn't look for an Intel Power Mac until 2007.

I really have the feeling Apple is aiming for a G5 PowerBook and iBook. This would be the significant boost to carry the laptop line through 2006 with an Intel transition in 2007.

That may leave he Mac mini as the first computer to see the Intel transition. Or Apple may introduce a small tower as their first Intel machine.
post #62 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
I don't think the Intel switch will happen that quickly. I think the Intel transisiton will be pretty slow, and Apple will develop PPC for at least another year.

"Apple Sticks with PowerPC for Now" fluffs up that opinion.
post #63 of 79
Another thing is for certain. Its obvious Freescale has gone to sleep on the G4.

Apple needs to dump the G4 from the Mac line up - like yesterday.
post #64 of 79
wow! what an increase in the 12" resolution, the new even faster processor....

came on, i really hoped to get a good reason the get one. and i really doubt, there ┬┤ll be an upgrade soon. just think how long it took them to just grap one of the myriades of display producers and ask them to supply them with a bit higher resolution and brighter screens.
post #65 of 79
i'm thinking the 12" will go 13" when the intels come out.


hmmm.. i'm still debating

should i wait for the intels? should i get the 15"


i just dont know what to do.
post #66 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
I doubt Apple would choose to update with minor touches here and there, like they did. They would never risk the end of the year buying season if they could. My guess is that Freescale was unable to produce the 7448 in sufficient quantities before the next year comes.

Yes but the fact is Apple had to take their eye off the PPC ball and focus on Intel.. If there was no Intel round the corner. I think we could have guaranteed this 7448 chip in the PB. It depends who you think is ultimately responsible.. Perhaps (in the past, or when it mattered) a certain CEO would be screaming at his chip supliers every day to guarentee their prompt delivery.. Is he doing it now. ?

Not IMHO!
post #67 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by OfficerDigby
Yes but the fact is Apple had to take their eye off the PPC ball and focus on Intel.. If there was no Intel round the corner. I think we could have guaranteed this 7448 chip in the PB.

The work for the Intel switch has little to do with Apple including the MPC7448 in the Powerbook, since the 7448 is pin-compatible with the 7447A and it would require almost zero effort to implement.

Quote:

It depends who you think is ultimately responsible.. Perhaps (in the past, or when it mattered) a certain CEO would be screaming at his chip supliers every day to guarentee their prompt delivery.. Is he doing it now. ?

Not IMHO!

Yes, pressure from Apple to obtain in time the chips could indeed be a factor. However, I am not sure if Apple would abandon that way the pressure towards Freescale, especially when they scheduled an update just before the holidays buying season.
post #68 of 79
I guess I'm one of the few who is sorely tempted with the Powerbook update. The Powerbook 15" with 1440x960 screen resolution would be something I'd loved to get. My aging, falling apart 500 MHz iBook has something to do with it, though. I can't even watch the Apple webcasts anymore, it's nothing but a slideshow... but I must... hold... out... for dual-core Yonah goodness.
post #69 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
I guess I'm one of the few who is sorely tempted with the Powerbook update. The Powerbook 15" with 1440x960 screen resolution would be something I'd loved to get. My aging, falling apart 500 MHz iBook has something to do with it, though. I can't even watch the Apple webcasts anymore, it's nothing but a slideshow... but I must... hold... out... for dual-core Yonah goodness.

But would you really want to buy a rev. A system, especially a laptop? I'd be reluctant to replace my 600MHz iBook with one.

Btw, I just noticed this yesterday:

PowerBook G4 (Double-Layer SD) models: About Safe Sleep

There's more info about Safe Sleep in this Technical Note from 1999:

Power Manager 2.0

I wasn't aware that feature existed for Mac OS and hardware at that time. It seems to have slipped under the radar with news about the updated PowerBooks. That would be a great feature for other Macs, especially semi-portable minis and iMacs.
post #70 of 79
New PowerBook screen vs old PowerBook screen:

Pictures of new Powerbook G4 with 1680x1050 display
post #71 of 79
thanks for posting the side by side comparison, thats awesome!
post #72 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by sjk
But would you really want to buy a rev. A system, especially a laptop? I'd be reluctant to replace my 600MHz iBook with one.

Well, my 500 MHz iBook G3 is a rev A system, no?

Yes, I'm ok with get a Rev. A Powerbook/Intel.
post #73 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by THT
Well, my 500 MHz iBook G3 is a rev A system, no?

Oh.

However, the G3 was already in other Mac models before the iBook so some of the early software issues had already been resolved. The first Intel-based systems will face both new hardware and software uncertainties.

Quote:
Yes, I'm ok with get a Rev. A Powerbook/Intel.

You certainly won't be alone.
post #74 of 79
Those high res screens are cool! I'm sure sales of reading glasses and magnifying lenses are going to skyrocket!
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post #75 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
I don't think the Intel switch will happen that quickly. I think the Intel transisiton will be pretty slow, and Apple will develop PPC for at least another year.

Jobs seems to be about symmetry and balance. I can see him wanting to take the entire Macintosh line to G5.

The dual PowerMac will carry us through the next year. I wouldn't look for an Intel Power Mac until 2007.

I really have the feeling Apple is aiming for a G5 PowerBook and iBook. This would be the significant boost to carry the laptop line through 2006 with an Intel transition in 2007.

That may leave he Mac mini as the first computer to see the Intel transition. Or Apple may introduce a small tower as their first Intel machine.

Well don't forget that the G4 is a woefully outdated processor no matter how you slice it, meaning that it's in Apple's best interests to dump it (as another poster said) "like yesterday".

Whether Jobs "wants" the G5 in the PB or not, that doesn't mean it can happen. the G5 is just too hot/big for a PB.

Also remember that the consumer line will almost certainly never be better than the pro line, which means that neither the iBook nor the MM can outclass the PB. And right now, just about anything can outclass the G4. It's time to move on.
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post #76 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by mynamehere
Well don't forget that the G4 is a woefully outdated processor no matter how you slice it, meaning that it's in Apple's best interests to dump it (as another poster said) "like yesterday".

Whether Jobs "wants" the G5 in the PB or not, that doesn't mean it can happen. the G5 is just too hot/big for a PB.

Also remember that the consumer line will almost certainly never be better than the pro line, which means that neither the iBook nor the MM can outclass the PB. And right now, just about anything can outclass the G4. It's time to move on.

Repeating this over and over doesn't make it true.

The G4 is not 'woefully outdated'. It has a couple of flaws that matter to some people but not, by any stretch, to everyone. Computers have been faster than most people need for years and it's only the geeks and the gamers that worry about it.

It still does runs vector code quicker than the Pentium M which has poor SIMD support.

It still does floating point quicker than the Pentium M.

It doesn't need as big a cache to keep the pipelines fed unlike Intel.

What it doesn't do is have a fast front side bus or scale down in power to speeds quite as slow as the Pentium M. Both flaws in the G4 make it now unsuitable for the desktop and less useful in a laptop even though 5.5 hours in a laptop is probably adequate for most people.

The problem is that it WILL be outclassed in about 4 months time by the dual-core Yonah and totally outclassed by the Merom in about a years time. And Freescale doesn't have an answer for that in their roadmap until about another 6 months after the Merom. It's anyone's guess if they actually do match Intel but if they don't then the low power Intel chips are going to start eating into Freescales embedded market too.

The P.A. Semi announcement today though may change things again but it's still not looking good for Freescale who have squandered their lead by not investing in fabs, laying off development teams and penny pinching for years.

IBM's low power G5s aren't really that low in power yet, but I wouldn't rule them out either. There's a lot of development going on in PowerPC still as the architecture is used in many places other than computers.

All of which leaves Apple backing the wrong horse still for laptop chips in the immediate future and that's 54% of it's market IIRC. That's why they went Intel. Not because of what we have now, but because of what is coming.
post #77 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Repeating this over and over doesn't make it true.

The G4 is not 'woefully outdated'. It has a couple of flaws that matter to some people but not, by any stretch, to everyone. Computers have been faster than most people need for years and it's only the geeks and the gamers that worry about it.


If I understand this barefeats test correctly http://www.barefeats.com/kwik.html , then a 2 GHz G4 holds its own with a 2 GHz G5, tested in desktop systems. The G4 is slower in 3D graphic applications (on page 2 of the test). In a laptop with only 1 processor, I don't then understand how the frequently advocated G5, probably at 1.6 or 1.8 GHz, would be so great. A 2 GHz G4 would almost certainly be faster, and probably lower power too.
post #78 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by dh87
If I understand this barefeats test correctly http://www.barefeats.com/kwik.html , then a 2 GHz G4 holds its own with a 2 GHz G5, tested in desktop systems. The G4 is slower in 3D graphic applications (on page 2 of the test). In a laptop with only 1 processor, I don't then understand how the frequently advocated G5, probably at 1.6 or 1.8 GHz, would be so great. A 2 GHz G4 would almost certainly be faster, and probably lower power too.

Ultimately, the G4 is held back by the front side bus it has. As you can see in those game tests, the G5 is way out ahead with the same cards because the G4 just can't supply enough data to the graphics cards to keep them busy.

This also follows for other bandwidth hungry activities such as networking, raid arrays and running servers.

Plus, the low power 1.6 G5 has lower power requirements now than the current 1.67Ghz G4 in the PowerBook never mind the 2Ghz overclocked 7447A they used in that test.

Edit: I'd add that the test also shows that running most normal applications, the FSB doesn't actually matter and there's little difference between the G4 and G5. People get all heated about 3D game scores even if they're just running Word.
post #79 of 79
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Ultimately, the G4 is held back by the front side bus it has. As you can see in those game tests, the G5 is way out ahead with the same cards because the G4 just can't supply enough data to the graphics cards to keep them busy.

This also follows for other bandwidth hungry activities such as networking, raid arrays and running servers.

Plus, the low power 1.6 G5 has lower power requirements now than the current 1.67Ghz G4 in the PowerBook never mind the 2Ghz overclocked 7447A they used in that test.

Edit: I'd add that the test also shows that running most normal applications, the FSB doesn't actually matter and there's little difference between the G4 and G5. People get all heated about 3D game scores even if they're just running Word.

I'm not disagreeing with you. The imaginary 7448 would have a faster FSB and would be faster still than the 7447A barefeats is testing. It's quite possible that a 7448 would be faster overall than a low-power 970 at the same clock speed.

Running Word faster is very important, as it allows an overall higher density of frustration.
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